Fri Dec 21, 2012, 01:25 AM
How many bullets does one need for self defense?Last edited Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:08 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
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111 replies, 4634 views
 111 replies |
Author | Time | Post |
 How many bullets does one need for self defense? (Original post) |
ArcticFox | Dec 2012 | OP |
| Glaug-Eldare | Dec 2012 | #1 | |
| gejohnston | Dec 2012 | #2 | |
| tortoise1956 | Dec 2012 | #6 | |
| ManiacJoe | Dec 2012 | #7 | |
| tortoise1956 | Dec 2012 | #8 | |
| ManiacJoe | Dec 2012 | #11 | |
| Glassunion | Dec 2012 | #18 | |
| Glassunion | Dec 2012 | #17 | |
| oldhippie | Dec 2012 | #30 | |
| Glassunion | Dec 2012 | #31 | |
| oldhippie | Dec 2012 | #32 | |
| tortoise1956 | Dec 2012 | #9 | |
| discntnt_irny_srcsm | Dec 2012 | #25 | |
| Lurks Often | Dec 2012 | #33 | |
| discntnt_irny_srcsm | Dec 2012 | #39 | |
| ManiacJoe | Dec 2012 | #75 | |
| tortoise1956 | Dec 2012 | #3 | |
| ManiacJoe | Dec 2012 | #4 | |
| Rtalon | Dec 2012 | #5 | |
| southerncrone | Dec 2012 | #10 | |
| sarisataka | Dec 2012 | #12 | |
| former-republican | Dec 2012 | #13 | |
| Callisto32 | Dec 2012 | #14 | |
| farminator3000 | Dec 2012 | #41 | |
| guardian | Dec 2012 | #64 | |
| farminator3000 | Dec 2012 | #70 | |
| guardian | Dec 2012 | #84 | |
| farminator3000 | Dec 2012 | #88 | |
| leveymg | Dec 2012 | #15 | |
| ileus | Dec 2012 | #16 | |
| safeinOhio | Dec 2012 | #19 | |
| ProgressiveProfessor | Dec 2012 | #28 | |
| farminator3000 | Dec 2012 | #43 | |
| ProgressiveProfessor | Dec 2012 | #60 | |
| farminator3000 | Dec 2012 | #72 | |
| farminator3000 | Dec 2012 | #42 | |
| gejohnston | Dec 2012 | #44 | |
| farminator3000 | Dec 2012 | #47 | |
| gejohnston | Dec 2012 | #48 | |
| farminator3000 | Dec 2012 | #49 | |
| gejohnston | Dec 2012 | #50 | |
| farminator3000 | Dec 2012 | #55 | |
| hack89 | Dec 2012 | #20 | |
| Hangingon | Dec 2012 | #21 | |
| Kaleva | Dec 2012 | #22 | |
| Remmah2 | Dec 2012 | #23 | |
| Atypical Liberal | Dec 2012 | #24 | |
| Recursion | Dec 2012 | #27 | |
| Atypical Liberal | Dec 2012 | #29 | |
| Eleanors38 | Dec 2012 | #36 | |
| Sekhmets Daughter | Dec 2012 | #74 | |
| Eleanors38 | Dec 2012 | #85 | |
| Sekhmets Daughter | Dec 2012 | #87 | |
| Eleanors38 | Dec 2012 | #91 | |
| Sekhmets Daughter | Dec 2012 | #94 | |
| gejohnston | Dec 2012 | #95 | |
| Sekhmets Daughter | Dec 2012 | #96 | |
| Sekhmets Daughter | Dec 2012 | #89 | |
| Eleanors38 | Dec 2012 | #92 | |
| Sekhmets Daughter | Dec 2012 | #93 | |
| Lurks Often | Dec 2012 | #34 | |
| jpak | Dec 2012 | #38 | |
| atreides1 | Dec 2012 | #26 | |
| Eleanors38 | Dec 2012 | #35 | |
| RoccoR5955 | Dec 2012 | #37 | |
| jmg257 | Dec 2012 | #40 | |
| jody | Dec 2012 | #45 | |
| slackmaster | Dec 2012 | #46 | |
| Kaleva | Dec 2012 | #65 | |
| slackmaster | Dec 2012 | #73 | |
| ArcticFox | Dec 2012 | #86 | |
| Iggy | Dec 2012 | #51 | |
| Glaug-Eldare | Dec 2012 | #57 | |
| Iggy | Dec 2012 | #58 | |
| Glaug-Eldare | Dec 2012 | #59 | |
| Iggy | Dec 2012 | #61 | |
| Glaug-Eldare | Dec 2012 | #67 | |
| Jamastiene | Dec 2012 | #52 | |
| Speck Tater | Dec 2012 | #53 | |
| Kaleva | Dec 2012 | #66 | |
| Democracyinkind | Dec 2012 | #54 | |
| discntnt_irny_srcsm | Dec 2012 | #56 | |
| guardian | Dec 2012 | #62 | |
| Kaleva | Dec 2012 | #68 | |
| guardian | Dec 2012 | #83 | |
| Tuesday Afternoon | Dec 2012 | #63 | |
| krispos42 | Dec 2012 | #69 | |
| jeepnstein | Dec 2012 | #71 | |
| Marblehead | Dec 2012 | #76 | |
| Historic NY | Dec 2012 | #77 | |
| gejohnston | Dec 2012 | #78 | |
| slackmaster | Dec 2012 | #79 | |
| gejohnston | Dec 2012 | #80 | |
| Historic NY | Dec 2012 | #81 | |
| gejohnston | Dec 2012 | #82 | |
| SEMOVoter | Dec 2012 | #90 | |
| safeinOhio | Dec 2012 | #101 | |
| SEMOVoter | Dec 2012 | #102 | |
| guyucallwhenurhurt | Dec 2012 | #97 | |
| Howzit | Dec 2012 | #98 | |
| L0oniX | Dec 2012 | #99 | |
| krispos42 | Dec 2012 | #100 | |
| Dash87 | Dec 2012 | #103 | |
| gejohnston | Dec 2012 | #104 | |
| Dash87 | Dec 2012 | #105 | |
| gejohnston | Dec 2012 | #106 | |
| Dash87 | Dec 2012 | #107 | |
| gejohnston | Dec 2012 | #108 | |
| Dash87 | Dec 2012 | #109 | |
| gejohnston | Dec 2012 | #110 | |
| iiibbb | Dec 2012 | #111 |
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 01:38 AM
Glaug-Eldare (1,018 posts)
1. As many as it takes, I guess.
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Last edited Fri Dec 21, 2012, 01:39 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1) |
Response to tortoise1956 (Reply #6)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:07 AM
ManiacJoe (5,634 posts)
7. 30 rounds is not really arbitrary.
Response to tortoise1956 (Reply #8)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:57 AM
ManiacJoe (5,634 posts)
11. 20 is a good number for the AR-based rifles.
Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #11)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:33 AM
Glassunion (5,056 posts)
18. It's also IMO the best size if you're bench shooting.
Response to tortoise1956 (Reply #8)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:32 AM
Glassunion (5,056 posts)
17. The rifle ammunition that I recently bought
Response to Glassunion (Reply #17)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:26 AM
oldhippie (1,530 posts)
30. And those "strips" were actually "clips" ...
Response to oldhippie (Reply #30)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:43 AM
Glassunion (5,056 posts)
31. I was keeping it simple.
Response to Glassunion (Reply #31)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:41 AM
oldhippie (1,530 posts)
32. Me too!
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Which is what they are. Didn't mean to dump on you, it's just some some in the media purposely misuse the terms and it bugs my sense of order in the word.
I liken it to an avid golfer hearing his prized putter called "that stick thing."  |
Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #7)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:04 AM
discntnt_irny_srcsm (5,880 posts)
25. You bring up a good point
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The spring within the magazine must push the rounds loaded up quickly enough such that the top round is chambered. The force developed by a spring is inversely proportionate to its deflection so the spring is pushing twice as hard when 8 rounds are loaded compared to when 4 rounds are loaded. This difference is offset by the difference in the mass of the rounds. A manufacturer of a quality pistol balances the spring force and capacity of the magazine for the greatest reliability. I would tend to believe that it may be the best idea to use mags built by the guns manufacturer rather than a higher capacity mag made by a third party.
I've done nearly no pistol shooting and wondered if you'd had any experience with this. Thanks  |
Response to Lurks Often (Reply #33)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:01 PM
discntnt_irny_srcsm (5,880 posts)
39. Thanks
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I rather suspected, as with many products, owner reviews and comments would help sort the useful from the useless. With most firearms I'd also recommend a trying before buying. I suspected that it's less likely that the firearm manufacturer would make a substandard mag.
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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #25)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:32 PM
ManiacJoe (5,634 posts)
75. This is where product reliability comes in.
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 01:51 AM
ManiacJoe (5,634 posts)
4. The most often quoted stat is
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Last edited Fri Dec 21, 2012, 01:52 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1) |
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:32 AM
10. Probably 5 or 6 should do it, IMHO.
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:22 AM
sarisataka (2,296 posts)
12. One...
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:08 AM
14. What caliber, how dark is it, how much cover is available, is the attacker using it.....
Response to Callisto32 (Reply #14)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:02 PM
41. is the attacker using it? there is also a problem with your question
Response to guardian (Reply #64)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 07:38 PM
70. on what planet is this real information?
Response to farminator3000 (Reply #70)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:17 AM
84. Nice deflection. Care to get back on point?
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Last edited Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:22 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1) It's more real than comments from the antis who wouldn't know the difference between a grapefruit and a .50 BMG
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Response to guardian (Reply #84)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 03:11 PM
88. that would be great. so what is your point?
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:09 AM
leveymg (26,808 posts)
15. Calculate the zombie/shooter ratio. How many zombies will be attacking your house?
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:25 AM
ileus (9,315 posts)
16. Trained pros like cops and military have something like a 17%
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:55 AM
safeinOhio (7,477 posts)
19. How many times a year have firearms
Response to safeinOhio (Reply #19)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:11 AM
28. How many times are firearms used in self defense without a shot fired?
Response to safeinOhio (Reply #19)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:10 PM
42. i totally agree with you
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https://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2010/02/19
except they aren't used that much in self defense. 600 or so justifiable homicides a year. i'd say in reality, if you get mugged by a gun toter, you are more likely to become a homicide than pull out your gun like wyatt earp. also, i looked up that 600 on the fbi's site. they wanted me to participlate in a customer survey! "did you find the murder statistics you were looking for?"  |
Response to farminator3000 (Reply #42)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:20 PM
44. that is just where someone is killed
Response to farminator3000 (Reply #47)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:46 PM
48. who knows
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Last edited Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:52 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1) |
Response to gejohnston (Reply #50)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:45 PM
55. so that's why you are being condescending? you are an 'expert'?
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:17 AM
21. It is not a question of how many rounds are needed to stop a goblin.
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:45 AM
Kaleva (11,406 posts)
22. Instances of a homeowner firing more then a few rounds are very rare.
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:06 AM
Atypical Liberal (5,412 posts)
24. The real scoop from a pro-gun person.
Response to Atypical Liberal (Reply #24)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:08 AM
Recursion (26,254 posts)
27. I like more and more the idea of rescheduling semi's with detachable mags as Class 3 weapons
Response to Recursion (Reply #27)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:21 AM
Atypical Liberal (5,412 posts)
29. That is exactly what I am thinking.
Response to Recursion (Reply #27)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:15 PM
Eleanors38 (3,827 posts)
36. I would be open to some reg like this if...
Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #36)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:42 PM
Sekhmets Daughter (7,433 posts)
74. What is the problem with
Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #74)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:36 AM
Eleanors38 (3,827 posts)
85. It gives government(s) de facto access to my guns
Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #85)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 03:01 PM
Sekhmets Daughter (7,433 posts)
87. Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
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While there was a time when I would have found your concern about a destabilized government laughable, the example of today's dysfunctional Republican Party makes the possibilities of such destabilization less comical. I suspect if the GOP succeeds in destroying itself, there are many on the left who will, indeed, call for the confiscation of all guns. I am not one such, but I recognize there are plenty of them. I think the problem may be the use of the ill-defined "gun-control groups" and the equally ill-defined "second amendment freaks" The entire conversation is taking place on the extremes, never a good thing for any society that hopes to survive. I would never want to disarm everyone. I don't own a gun myself, I have no need for one, but I have family members who are hunters, and while I may question their overall intelligence, (which has nothing to do with their gun ownership) they are not murderers.
Those of us who are not part of the gun culture have little understanding as to the types of weapons that have proven to be so dangerous. I have only the words of Sen. Joe Manchin as to how many rounds he needs and it was far fewer than 100 or even 30. I think your idea of a non-governmental data storage system, accessible only by warrant has much merit. Of course, anyone who purchases their weapons or ammunition on the internet has already given up their privacy...but that is their problem. As to full-time, beefed-up security for schools....who is going to pay for that? School budgets have been cut to the bone already.... Would you support a separate tax on guns and ammunition to pay for it? Every right does carry a corresponding responsibility, after all. Perhaps if we began conversations with "I recognize something must be done" and "I recognize your right to own guns" we would make better headway. You live in Florida, correct? Nice seeing you again. I really do like your idea about the non-gov't data storage. |
Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #87)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 06:55 PM
Eleanors38 (3,827 posts)
91. Thank you once again. I have lived in Texas for 40+ yrs, but
Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #91)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 08:25 PM
Sekhmets Daughter (7,433 posts)
94. I love the merely Eleanors38
Response to gejohnston (Reply #95)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 08:34 PM
Sekhmets Daughter (7,433 posts)
96. Well, that explains a lot. Thanks.
Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #85)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 03:20 PM
Sekhmets Daughter (7,433 posts)
89. One other thing I forgot to mention....
Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #89)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:05 PM
Eleanors38 (3,827 posts)
92. I wouldn't want street patrols by armed military either.
Response to Atypical Liberal (Reply #24)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 01:01 PM
38. Then an AR15 with a 100 round clip makes your home invincible!
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:07 AM
atreides1 (10,268 posts)
26. Usually one
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:00 PM
Eleanors38 (3,827 posts)
35. I purchase hand-gun ammo in 50/100 boxes
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:29 PM
jmg257 (4,838 posts)
40. 2x the number of attackers, plus 1.
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:41 PM
46. Too many is always better than not enough
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Response to slackmaster (Reply #46)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:47 PM
Kaleva (11,406 posts)
65. Has anyone ever been killed for not having enough?
Response to slackmaster (Reply #73)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 01:41 PM
86. Wasn't that akin to a military battle?
Response to Iggy (Reply #51)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:56 PM
Glaug-Eldare (1,018 posts)
57. Look at the DSM manual.
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Last edited Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:01 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1) |
Response to Iggy (Reply #58)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:13 PM
Glaug-Eldare (1,018 posts)
59. Then use those markers.
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Last edited Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:14 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1) |
Response to Iggy (Reply #61)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:52 PM
Glaug-Eldare (1,018 posts)
67. Huh? That's the exact opposite of what I'm saying.
Response to Speck Tater (Reply #53)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:49 PM
Kaleva (11,406 posts)
66. ROFLMAO! Okay! That was funny!
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Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:44 PM
Democracyinkind (2,300 posts)
54. Since many seem to have them for the coming showdown with a tyrannical gov
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Last edited Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:48 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1) |
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:51 PM
discntnt_irny_srcsm (5,880 posts)
56. First I prefer to rephrase the question...
Response to guardian (Reply #62)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:55 PM
Kaleva (11,406 posts)
68. Going by that data, a .22 caliber handgun is just as good, if not better, then anything else.
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:26 PM
Tuesday Afternoon (44,909 posts)
63. Warren Zevon knows
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 07:14 PM
krispos42 (45,273 posts)
69. Tough question
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:42 PM
Historic NY (19,873 posts)
77. Since some like to quote Israel ...
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Last edited Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:43 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1) |
Response to gejohnston (Reply #78)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:11 PM
Historic NY (19,873 posts)
81. Actually thats not true either they serve in the army...
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Last edited Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:47 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1) |
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 06:29 PM
90. You don't need bullets, you need brains.
Response to SEMOVoter (Reply #90)
Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:18 PM
safeinOhio (7,477 posts)
101. You get my vote for best reply.
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:02 AM
98. The arguments about magazine capacity
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:05 PM
L0oniX (18,019 posts)
99. Just as many as the police need in their Glocks or SWMP9.
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Sun Dec 23, 2012, 03:42 PM
krispos42 (45,273 posts)
100. We really need a baseline before getting a number.
Response to ArcticFox (Original post)
Fri Dec 28, 2012, 09:21 PM
103. I would like to a see a 5 round limit for magazines - all guns.
Response to Dash87 (Reply #105)
Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:41 AM
106. many nonLE shooters are better trained
Response to gejohnston (Reply #106)
Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:02 PM
107. Being able to shoot a target is only one part of the equation.
Response to Dash87 (Reply #107)
Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:12 PM
108. but if you look at the actual statistics,
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Last edited Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:17 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1) |
Response to gejohnston (Reply #108)
Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:28 PM
109. Reply
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"Stupid stuff" in my mind would be not handling yourself correctly in a situation that calls for discipline and training. I just don't think the normal, average, every-day gun owner would be as efficient as a cop, and would be more prone to error. I have no statistics to back that up, though. Feel free to educate me.
The second part, about cops showing up and having to find out who the bad guy is, is necessary. Usually they just put both people in hand cuffs, right? It's probably more for their own safety. If you and the robber are hand-cuffed, and you eventually prove that you're the homeowner, what's the big deal? It's a minor inconvenience. As for the "which one do I shoot?" problem, I'm not a cop, so I can't claim to know what to do in that situation. They would obviously want to resolve that peacefully, leading to both being hand-cuffed, and try to avoid that situation as much as possible. By the way, I'm a rocket scientist by day, international spy / detective / weapons expert by night. This is the internet, after all.  |
