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Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:10 PM

Call it like it is: The NRA types want a nation of George Zimmermans.

So I've been observing the post-Sandy Hook shooting reaction. Two state legislatures introduced bills that would allow teachers to have CCW in classrooms. Then some gun rights activists suggesting that armed vigilantes would've saved lives in this shooting, the Portland mall shooting, etc. A nation of George Zimmermans, as this Daily Kos blog put it.

Imagine how safe you would feel. You’d always know that you were surrounded by vigilant Zimmermans. George Zimmerman would have your back everywhere you went. He’d be standing in line behind you at Starbucks, walking behind you on your way through the parking lot to your car, waiting patiently while you withdrew money from the ATM. Instead of a world full of strangers, you would live in a world full of strangers with guns. You’d always feel safe. And if for any reason you found yourself feeling unsafe? Remember, you have a gun, too. Feeling fearful? Unsure? The simple solution: draw first. Problem solved.

And if some nut-job tried to pull a stunt like this guy did in Aurora, Colorado, it wouldn’t go well for him at all. After setting off his smoke bomb and opening fire, he’d instantly find himself confronted with dozens of armed movie goers.


In Peckinpahtopia, we wouldn’t have to worry about tragedies like the Aurora movie theater killings. Instead of waiting helplessly for the police to arrive, a theater full of Zimmermans would rise up and stand their ground and the situation would quickly be controlled. For the police, there would only be the paperwork. Imagine how much safer and easier life would be for police officers in Peckinpahtopia!


Besides the gun manufacturers, who obviously make more money off people's fear of crime, who wins from the "be afraid, be very afraid of the next massacre" messaging prevalent by the arm-everyone crowd? And honestly, can you consider that to be freedom?

And you wonder why people were so offended after Bob Costas's halftime gun commentary. Maybe because Costas dared to tell the truth, quoting another sports commentator: "our current gun culture simply ensures that more and more domestic disputes will end in the ultimate tragedy." They are afraid of their own shadow. OK, law-abiding citizens should be able to own guns. But then, it is worth the cost of: people dying over trivial confrontations (like Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis), or children accidentally being shot in their own homes by parents' firearms, or stray bullets?

Furthermore, the gun lobby has no idea how one who conceal carries can protect oneself from drive-by shooting or sniper attacks, unless an armed vigilante were around. And this USA Today editorial from November 2002 posits possible reasons why the NRA was silent after the DC sniper attacks: because NRA-backed laws aided/abetted the two gunmen.

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Reply Call it like it is: The NRA types want a nation of George Zimmermans. (Original post)
alp227 Dec 2012 OP
gejohnston Dec 2012 #1
GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #2
alp227 Dec 2012 #3
GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #4
alp227 Dec 2012 #7
gejohnston Dec 2012 #8
GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #9
gejohnston Dec 2012 #5
spin Dec 2012 #6
lastlib Dec 2012 #10
ellisonz Dec 2012 #11
jpak Dec 2012 #12

Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:57 PM

1. given that Zimmerman hasn't gone to trial

and the more I look at the evidence, the more I question conventional wisdom. Getting your head pounded in the pavement is not a trivial matter.
I was offended by Casta's first rant because it stupid. His second one was kind of racist.
It may be that they feel they need them for protection. They may feel that it’s part of a romanticized culture, there’s an aspect of this a kind of Wild West cowboy Dirty Harry aspect, there’s also an aspect . . . that’s influenced by what we see in the inner cities some of it may be glamorized in gangster rap videos, whatever it may be, it plays itself out in different ways, in different demographics
This was after an informal poll that many pro football players, mostly African American, owned guns. He can pretend what he thinks they feel all he wants. So, they take up target shooting, or whatever, because they been watching too many rap videos? Bullshit. I may be some white guy from the sticks, but that looks pretty racist to me. Where he gets off on saying that he knows what's better for someone else?

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:29 PM

2. You have several mistakes there.

Criminology is a very well established and studied field. Some of the facts that are well known in the field haven't made it into general knowledge.

people dying over trivial confrontations Law abiding gun owners don't reach for gun to settle confrontations. Murder, as a first violent criminal offense is extremely rare. Almost always a murderer will have a lengthy criminal history that already makes it illegal for him to have a gun.

children accidentally being shot in their own homes by parents' firearms It only happens about 50 times per year. That is using the definition of a child as a human below the age of puberty, general 12 years old. To get a higher, more alarming number, to push their agenda gun control group use higher ages. One group was once using age 24 as the cut-off but they had to back down from that as they were getting ridiculed too much. VPC now uses age 18.

no idea how one who conceal carries can protect oneself from drive-by shooting or sniper attacks, We don't claim that a gun would be a protection in all circumstances. There will obviously be some situations in which a gun would be useless. But there will also be many other situations in which a gun will enable the owner to defend themselves from criminal attack. We carry for those situations in which it would be needed.

Now the NRA is blocking moves to set up a national ballistic-fingerprinting system that could be used to tie bullets found at crime scenes not only to a particular gun, but also to the gun's owner. The system would require that each new gun be test-fired by the manufacturer so its unique markings could be placed in a national database.

The NRA insists that such a system is expensive and won't work in the real world of crime, where guns are stolen and altered. But the sniper case proves them wrong: Bullets found at the shootings would quickly have led authorities to the Tacoma shop, aiding the search for the killers.


New York state recently abandoned their ballistic tracking program, after years of work. It cost huge amounts of money and didn't aid in solving a single crime. Further, rifling patterns can be quickly and easily altered - just run a steel cleaning brush down the bore.

The piece you linked to ridiculed the idea that a CCWer might stop a rampage shooting, but exactly that has happened several times. And none of the disasters predicted by the anti-gun people happened. In each case lives were saved by a CCWer being at the right place at the right time.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:35 PM

3. So should the gun control advocates just give up prevention efforts?

Since no law will be able to prevent future rampage shootings? Instead we HAVE to be a nation of vigilantes to stop shooters?

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Response to alp227 (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:46 PM

4. Notice that rampage shooting are almost always in "gun-free" zones.

You never see a rampage shooting at a gun show, or at a police station, or an NRA convention.

Do away with gun free zones. For schools, have a school marshall program. Faculty members who don't have much contact with the children would be trained and armed. (With extra pay) They would be the first responders with the job of taking out the shooter. For other places, encourage people to get CCWs and to actively carry.

Contrary to the VPC, CCWers are among the safest people with guns.

Gun controllers are unable to disarm criminals, but in their frustration they disarm the law-abiding. By doing that they help the criminals.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:46 AM

7. Sigh. I guess guns=a necessary evil then.

There can be no such thing as a gun free zone? What does that say about society then? America has got to combat the root causes of violence.

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Response to alp227 (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:54 AM

8. Once we deal with the root causes

everything else is moot. If you only concentrate on the guns, you will have the cops and gangsters the guns and we will still have the same level of violence. I would respect the "no guns sign", the guy who wants to rob and cause mayhem on the other hand............. that is true in all societies.

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Response to alp227 (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:05 PM

9. Notice that the UK has a higher rate of violent crime.

Over half of their burglaries are "hot" burglaries, meaning someone is at home. Their burglars don't care. Here in the U.S. burglars take pains to try to make sure that no one is home. They don't want to get shot.

Home invaders try to overwhelm the resident before he can get to his gun. Typically, if the resident can get to his gun they turn tail and run.

In the UK they have a lot of street knife violence, much more than we do.

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Response to alp227 (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:52 PM

5. start barking up the right tree

and work with all of us in fixing the real issues.
I'm waiting in a Planned Parenthood waiting for my daughter to finish her exam, and some asshole comes in shooting or swinging a machete, neither me or the doc are vigilantes. We become attempted murder victims fighting back. If he sees our guns pointed at him and says "oh shit" and leaves, and I go looking for him instead of calling the cops, then I become a vigilante. See the difference?

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:41 AM

6. NRA instructors run a lot of concealed carry classes in Florida. ...

I have never heard of a carry class run by any instructor, NRA or not, that told its students that they should be police or vigilantes. In fact the instructors tell you the exact opposite.

Sports fans were upset with Costas because often people watch games like football to escape the reality of the world we live in. They would have been just as upset had Costa delivered a diatribe on the pros and cons of abortion or the upcoming fiscal cliff. Had he lectured on the reason why we should protect football players by using better helmets or doing away with kick offs, the fans would not have been upset.

Most drive by shootings involve turf warfare between gangs who profit from the sale of drugs. Stopping this activity is a function of our police not people with carry permits. Of course gang warfare is a direct result of our failed War on Drugs which as a nation we should reconsider.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:40 PM

10. ...complete with racism.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:35 PM

11. Yes, let's militarize our schools...

LAPIERRE: Now, the National Rifle Association knows there are millions of qualified and active retired police, active, Reserve, and retired military, security professionals, certified firefighters, security professionals, rescue personnel, an extraordinary corps of patriotic, trained, qualified citizens to join with local school officials and police in devising a protection plan for every single school.


Uncle Jimbo will keep the school very very very safe sitting out front with his assault weapon.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:43 PM

12. That's becasue the NRA is composed of racist old white gun nuts that want to kill minorities

and get away with it.

That is why they loves them some SYG and Castle Law bullshit.

yup

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