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Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:45 AM

Florida's Gun Laws, and the problems with them

http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/p/gunlaws_fl.htm

I don't remember Florida's exact ranking by the NRA, but it is in the top 5 in the country. I believe the only reasons it is not at top is because a permit (costing $)
and training course is required for a CCW, no open carry, and the Gun Free Zones.

You could drive a Mack Truck through all these "Allowed" rules. I can use my own experience on that one.

My husband is a life time member of the NRA, has a CCW permit, owns at least 6 handguns, and goes to gun shows whenever they have them. This is where is he bought all of his guns.

As some of you may know, ever since we moved to the state of Florida, he has accumulated all handguns guns. He has been trying to buy ME one also, besides the mace, pepper spray.

If I were to go with him, which keeps asking, to pick out this gun, HE would buy it for me. I would not have to be subjected to a background check, or get licensed, or get training. Even if I bought it myself, I would only have to pass a background check and waiting period. NOTHING else. So, to "hurry it up", he would buy it, and give it to me as a present. Mack Truck just there. While the State of Florida is checking him, they aren't checking ME. Is this illegal? Debatable since he isn't SELLING it to me.

Now, that I have this gun, that I would have no training for, what could I do with it? Of course I can just keep it at home, loaded in drawer if I chose to (no children), but I can also keep it LOADED in in my locked car. No license or permit required. I would only need a permit and safety training if I wanted to keep it on my PERSON, not in my locked car. MACK TRUCK. After all, "if you were sitting in you car at a gas station, or in a parking lot, somebody could make an attempt on your life, and you have the right to STG with this gun!" This is a quote. These scenarios are not mine, but what husband has said. Yes, this gun that requires nothing of me to use??? MACK TRUCK.

Lastly on the Gun Free Zones which Florida has, if those are eliminated, which there is a bill right now, I would be allowed to keep this gun (no license, no registration, no background check, not mine, no training, no CCW) locked in my car on school grounds. MACK TRUCK. I don't know the legalities of this, but maybe I could take it inside the school (transporting it), and put it in a locked closet. Still not carrying it on my PERSON. No CCW?

Of course, I would NEVER do any of this, but would somebody else? Who knows? MACK TRUCK. This will make me, and others, SAFER? I don't think so. No wonder, the NRA ranks the state of Florida so highly rated.

I do not believe that any of the above should EVER be allowed to happen with anyone.





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Arrow 34 replies Author Time Post
Reply Florida's Gun Laws, and the problems with them (Original post)
HockeyMom Dec 2012 OP
hack89 Dec 2012 #1
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #3
gejohnston Dec 2012 #5
hack89 Dec 2012 #6
spin Dec 2012 #32
jody Dec 2012 #2
gejohnston Dec 2012 #4
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #11
GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #7
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #8
Glaug-Eldare Dec 2012 #9
gejohnston Dec 2012 #10
S_B_Jackson Dec 2012 #19
Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #12
PavePusher Dec 2012 #13
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #14
rl6214 Dec 2012 #31
ManiacJoe Dec 2012 #15
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #16
friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #17
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #20
friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #21
gejohnston Dec 2012 #22
ManiacJoe Dec 2012 #25
ManiacJoe Dec 2012 #18
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #23
ManiacJoe Dec 2012 #26
gejohnston Dec 2012 #27
AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #24
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #28
AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #29
rl6214 Dec 2012 #30
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #33
gejohnston Dec 2012 #34

Response to HockeyMom (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:52 AM

1. What is the trend in Florida regarding gun deaths?

are there more or fewer gun deaths? And if it is fewer, then what actual problem are you trying to fix?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:00 PM

3. I don't have the link or other stats

but at the time of the Trayvon Martin shooting, it was quoted that since SYR law went into effect "Justifiable Homicides" increased by 30%.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:03 PM

5. maybe here were the same number of legitimate self defense cases

just 30 percent fewer innocent people in prison.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:06 PM

6. Lets us know when you have some hard facts.

Here is a good place to start:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/ucr

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:45 PM

32. Of course you understand what a justifiable homicide is. ...

Is it surprising that allowing citizens to legally carry firearms would increase the number of incidents where an attacker was killed in legitimate self defense and is this bad? Is a woman who kills a rapist or a senior citizen who kills a street thug who intended to serious injure or kill him an evil person?

I believe that the passage of SYG in Florida convinced many to get a carry license and carry on a regular basis. The biggest advantage that I saw in the law was not that merely that it allowed me to "stand my ground" but that in incidents where there was absolutely no doubt that I used my weapon in a legal manner, I would not face the time and expense of prosecution nor would I be involved in a civil lawsuit.

Also in the same time frame Florida passed a law that allowed a person with a concealed weapons permit to "take his gun to work" and leave it in his locked vehicle. Prior to the passage of this law it was legal for a person to have a firearm in his vehicle at work but his employer could forbid it if he chose and even fire the employee.

Because of these two laws many Floridians decided to get a concealed weapons permit and now well over 800,000 resident Floridians have these licenses. Therefore it is not at all surprising that the number of times where a person with a carry permit uses his weapon to stop an attack has increased.

I know that you intensely dislike Florida's concealed carry program but I will point out to you that it has been an outstanding success. Out of the 2,307,881 permits issued since October 1987 only 168 have been revoked for a crime involving a firearm committed after the license was issued.
(Source: http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.pdf)

It is true that there have been a few incidents like the Trayvon Martin shooting but the concealed weapons program has saved many lives. This fact is totally ignored by those who oppose the program.

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Response to HockeyMom (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:52 AM

2. Excellent points. Self-defense is a personal responsibility and you have a right to choose how you

 

wish to defend yourself.

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Response to HockeyMom (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:01 PM

4. so, I don't get it



My husband is a life time member of the NRA, has a CCW permit, owns at least 6 handguns, and goes to gun shows whenever they have them. This is where is he bought all of his guns.

As some of you may know, ever since we moved to the state of Florida, he has accumulated all handguns guns. He has been trying to buy ME one also, besides the mace, pepper spray.

If I were to go with him, which keeps asking, to pick out this gun, HE would buy it for me. I would not have to be subjected to a background check, or get licensed, or get training. Even if I bought it myself, I would only have to pass a background check and waiting period. NOTHING else. So, to "hurry it up", he would buy it, and give it to me as a present. Mack Truck just there. While the State of Florida is checking him, they aren't checking ME. Is this illegal? Debatable since he isn't SELLING it to me.
under the Gun Control Act, it is legal if it is a bon a fide gift, and you are family. The same questions were asked about Sarah Brady buying her son a rifle.

Now, that I have this gun, that I would have no training for, what could I do with it? Of course I can just keep it at home, loaded in drawer if I chose to (no children), but I can also keep it LOADED in in my locked car. No license or permit required. I would only need a permit and safety training if I wanted to keep it on my PERSON, not in my locked car. MACK TRUCK. After all, "if you were sitting in you car at a gas station, or in a parking lot, somebody could make an attempt on your life, and you have the right to STG with this gun!" This is a quote. These scenarios are not mine, but what husband has said. Yes, this gun that requires nothing of me to use??? MACK TRUCK.
You don't need any training in New York either.

Lastly on the Gun Free Zones which Florida has, if those are eliminated, which there is a bill right now, I would be allowed to keep this gun (no license, no registration, no background check, not mine, no training, no CCW) locked in my car on school grounds. MACK TRUCK. I don't know the legalities of this, but maybe I could take it inside the school (transporting it), and put it in a locked closet. Still not carrying it on my PERSON. No CCW?
if it is locked in your car in the parking lot, I don't get it. If it allowed you to prance among the students with it stuffed in your pants, you would have a point. If you think Florida sucks, what would you do in Wyoming?

Of course, I would NEVER do any of this, but would somebody else? Who knows? MACK TRUCK. This will make me, and others, SAFER? I don't think so. No wonder, the NRA ranks the state of Florida so highly rated.
If they meant ill well, they would anyway.

do you two do stuff just to to piss each other off?
I do not believe that any of the above should EVER be allowed to happen with anyone.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:49 PM

11. He is a lifetime NRA member

His thinking is probably in line with the NRA; the more armed citizens, the better.

Neither he, nor the NRA, gets it. Just because you can (own a gun) do something, that doesn't mean you want, or must, do it. It's very much like voting. Do we have a right to vote? Of course. MUST we? No. Same for the Second Amendment.

It's just seems to me living in a state like Florida with very lenient gun laws,it just feeds on the culture of guns.

In my case, the pushing has increased since moving to Florida because it's is "SO EASY" (his quote) in a state like this. That is simply not right. Yet, this state keeps passing more and more laws making it easier to own and easier to get more and more guns. These "No Requirements" helps feed it.

BTW, when our daughter moved to Florida he said this to her too, so it isn't just with me. She is Bi-Polar, although not adjudicated. Perfectly LEGAL, but wise, or APPROPRIATE? Absolutely not. She declined the offer.

I consider him a "gun nut". Stop reading all the NRA crap, and find another hobby.

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Response to HockeyMom (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:11 PM

7. Do you think that criminals obey gun-free zone signs? N/T

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:17 PM

8. I was presenting what

is possible with lax gun control laws. The Gun Free Zones ban hasn't passed, yet. That was just another part of the total picture.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:25 PM

9. Are these things not possible now?

Right now, today, in New York City, Chicago, and Washington, DC, it's possible to take a gun and walk to a bus stop and blast away. It's possible to do the same thing in London, Tokyo, Sydney, or Rio de Janeiro.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:34 PM

10. Connecticut has strict gun laws

that are not that much different than New York State.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 05:23 PM

19. Given your avatar, I'm assuming that ignore gun-busters signs....

given that they have no legal weight under state law and very few businesses post Texas-legal 30.06 signs

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Response to HockeyMom (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:59 PM

12. The only problem here is accepting a gift you don't know how to use.

 

Yes, it is completely legal to buy a firearm for someone as a gift. You cannot do this if you have reason to believe they are not eligible to own a firearm. But presumably your husband would know if there was some reason you could not own a gun.

Now, if you accept this gift and do not receive any instruction on how to use it, then it would be foolish of you to do anything with it other than keep it secure in your home.

I would assume that if your husband gave you a gun that before he even bothered he would take you shooting and teach you how to shoot to see if you enjoyed it.

Unless this is one of the "Here, honey, I bought you a new gun!" wink wink nudge nudge he really just bought it for himself.

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Response to HockeyMom (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:47 PM

13. As much as you crap on your husband on-line, I'm shocked he hasn't left you yet.

 

There's no person on this earth I'd tolerate to heap that much public scorn and hate on me and still be willing to live with them. I'd have packed my bags and departed by your third post.

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:04 PM

14. I have told HIM ever thing I have said online

We don't TALK about this, yet HE is the one who keeps pressuring ME to "defend yourself", and that I have a RIGHT to own and use a gun.

What has happened in the schools, which he has refused to discuss and said that, is part of the reason for my posting. It IS relevant to a public forums, besides which he feels MORE GUNS is the solution, like the NRA stance. That also is a relevant issue to a public forum. It shows the difference between gunners and pro-control people.

We have been married 38 years with him going his way and me going mineon this issue. The problems have come up since living in the Gun Happy state of Florida. It was not an issue when we lived for decades years in NY.

The reason for my OP was to show exactly how with lenient gun like in Florida, how a person could acquire a gun without stringent controls.

Maybe the majority gun owners in society have spouses and family members who feel the same as they do, but that is not always the case.













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Response to PavePusher (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:39 PM

31. Surprised this post has been left standing

 

I posted something similar once and she alerted on it and it was removed

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Response to HockeyMom (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:17 PM

15. Your link to the summary of Florida's gun laws is a good start.

However, you should take the time to read the actual laws as the summaries don't always get it right.

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:59 PM

16. I have heard it from my husband

WITH his CCW. He gave me all the ways around the law by saying HE could buy the gun and give it me.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 05:09 PM

17. Why don't you read them for yourself? Knowledge of the law is better than ignorance.

It will make your arguments much more persuasive- after all, you are the person that declared that you could walk into Walmart and buy a gun "no questions asked".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x331344#331555

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x331344#331567

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 05:36 PM

20. I did check out my local Walmart

They only sell rifles, everything else would have to be orders. It would require a background check, but no registration, licensees, etc. Handguns would have to be ordered. All would require only a background check and 24 hour "waiting period", which be the time just to PLACE THE ORDER. DUH??????


Way around this? Get a FAMILY MEMBER with a CCW permit to buy it. Wouldn't take as long.

You think this is A OK? Tell me my husband, or any other "legal owner" , couldn't just GIVE a family member a gun if they wanted to? That is not illegal.

Tell me about THIS, and if this is ILLEGAL, or cannot be done???? You don't like that I am Anti-Gun, and that there are so many LOOPHOLE to acquire a gun in Florida.

I could get a gun in 24 hours (whether me or through my husband), no questions asked of ME if HE bought it, perfectly LEGAL, in Florida by just by being a little devious. LEGAL. lol

Buy a gun for a GIFT for another person, and only YOU will require the background check.

Merry Christmas Present.









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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #20)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 05:52 PM

21. What's wrong with that? Even Sara Brady bought a gun for someone else (her son).

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #20)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 06:46 PM

22. 24 hour waiting period?

Florida law has a three business day waiting period for handguns. If you have a CCW, the waiting period is waived. If you give your husband the money, that would be a straw purchase. If he gives it as a bonifide gift, that is legal under the Gun Control Act. When my brother joined the local PD at 19, my mom had to do the same with his duty revolver.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #20)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:16 PM

25. You are glossing over the fact

that you are a legal receiver of firearms. You will pass all the checks. Your husband knows this. This is why it is legal for him (or anyone else) to gift a gun to YOU.

If you are not legally allowed to own guns, any gift from your husband results in felony charges for both of you.

Extremely few places in the country require guns to be registered.

Extremely few places in the country require owners to be licensed. (Concealed carry is a very different topic.)

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 05:21 PM

18. Yes, giving a firearm as a gift has always been legal...

... as long as the receiver is legally allowed to own the gun, which you seem to be.

However, we are talking about all the gun laws, not just that one. Knowledge is a good thing. The gun laws are a fairly easy read.

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:03 PM

23. It should be illegal to give a family member

a gun for a gift, or given them access to your guns. That eliminates the background checks, etc, for the person getting the gun. It leaves that up to the HONOR of the gun purchaser. Huh? If that family member can legally get that gun on their own, then they should buy it themselves, and go through all the legalities. No "GIFTS" of guns. That should be ILLEGAL. Give family member a gift of MONEY and let them buy it on there own and go through the process.

The problem with these "gifts", and legal owning parents and family owners having these guns in their homes, is that a child or other family members has access to them, and can use and STEAL them. That gets into the other aspect of mental health. Not going into that one here.

Did Lanza, Harris, or Klebold, buy guns? No, they were prevented from that with gun laws; too YOUNG, if nothing else. However, their PARENTS could be "legal gun owners" and they STOLE their parents guns. Easier than getting their own guns, legal or illegal. Actually, the system as is did work, but stealing from a family member was easier for them. Keeping the ADULT "legal" family members from these assault weapons is the only answer.

This is the the point I am making with my, and my daughter's, experience in my husband trying to circumvent the "system" and buying both of us a gun, whether either of us (which we could) could purchase it ourselves. Loopholes, and MACK TRUCKS, with this laws.


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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:20 PM

26. Proper storage of the firearms is important

regardless of how the guns are acquired, gift or not.

The Columbine shooters did not steal their guns. The girlfriend did an illegal straw purchase for them. Both she and the seller were convicted (years later) for the sale.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:22 PM

27. IIRC,

the object of the law was to not to impede introduction kids to the shooting sports. Until a few years ago, a 15 year old could buy a gun in Finland, now it is 18.
The guy in Portland stole it off of his room mate.
Lanza was old enough for a rifle, he just didn't want to do the background check or waiting period. If the stories are correct, the rifle was illegal under CT and NJ law, so, where did she get it?
I can go to London or Toronto and buy an illegal gun (pistol or submachine gun esp in the UK) for less than what I could legally buy one in Florida.
When I was in Japan, some army guy got busted by CID and Japanese police because he was buying guns made in illegal factories in Philippines (there is an area in Cebu that have shade tree gun factories just like the tribal region in Pakistan) and Thailand and smuggled them to Japan. He bought high quality guns for $30 and sold them to the Yakusa for over grand each.

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Response to HockeyMom (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:15 PM

24. What you just described is legal, and not a straw purchase.

"If I were to go with him, which keeps asking, to pick out this gun, HE would buy it for me. I would not have to be subjected to a background check, or get licensed, or get training. Even if I bought it myself, I would only have to pass a background check and waiting period. NOTHING else. So, to "hurry it up", he would buy it, and give it to me as a present. Mack Truck just there. While the State of Florida is checking him, they aren't checking ME. Is this illegal? Debatable since he isn't SELLING it to me."

If he knew you were a felon, or otherwise incapable of passing a background check yourself, and then handed you that gun, he'd be committing a felony.

Since you are (I will assume) eligible as a lawful recipient, his transfer of that gun to you as a gift is quite legal, and not a straw purchase.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:25 PM

28. It shouldn't be legal

If the person doesn't purchase it themselves and goes through all the legalities themselves, they cannot receive a gun as a gift. Period.

As with cars, you should need a license to OPERATE, not just own. If someone else owns the car, you still need a license to DRIVE it.

There are more requirements to operate a car than there are to just plain SHOOT, not just OWN, a gun.

Can you take your 8 year old on a street and let them drive down the road? Yet you can take that same child to a range, if you as an adult are with them and are a legal the gun owner.

Licenses to "operate" that gun with the same training as drivers. No license to operate, the person, child or adult, cannot take it shooting.



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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #28)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:33 PM

29. What if someone wants to gift you a collectors car that you will never drive on a public road?

The analogy only carries so far.

Incidentally, for a long time, gun owners have been asking for the government to open up NICS to all applicants, so we can use it for private transfers. So far this has been denied on privacy grounds.

I'm ok with requiring an FFL handle all transfers, private or dealer, as long as the mandate is funded.
(Which I am skeptical of, since Meals on Wheels is on the budget chopping block as we speak.)

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Response to HockeyMom (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:34 PM

30. I hope he never buys you that gun

 

That would scare the hell out of me

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Response to rl6214 (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:05 PM

33. You made my point

Thanks.

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Response to HockeyMom (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:08 PM

34. Wait, I have a question,

While I disagree with you on gun policy, I agree he shouldn't force his choice on you. He is being very disrespectful.
Will he chose your gun for you, or are you picking it out? If the latter, tell him you really, really want a Mauser luger in .45 ACP. They made and exported a few in the 1970s. I saw one at a gun show for a boat load of money (I like lugers, but I had a transmission that needed rebuilding) or if he has 20K Euros and $87 dollars a round, ask him for one of these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfeifer_Zeliska_.600_Nitro_Express_revolver
Now getting one to the US might be a hassle. The caliber will require a sporting exemption, otherwise it will have to be registered as a destructive device under NFA. AFAIK, the only buyers so far have been a couple of rich Swiss guys.
If he does, he has to buy the shells and show you how to fire it.

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