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Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:25 AM

Two Big Reasons Why New Gun Controls Aren't Going to Happen

A) The 2014 Mid-Term Elections

Among the states Democrats will be defending are Alaska, Arkansas, Louisiana, North Carolina, West Virginia, Virginia, New Hampshire, Colorado, Iowa, New Mexico and South Dakota. All of these states have very strong blocks of pro-gun voters. In Michigan, the issue could come into play if Sen. Carl Levin decides to retire.

Regardless of how the fiscal cliff negotiations end, the economy will remain weak through 2014. There is even a chance the economy slips back into recession. It is unlikely Harry Reid wants to add to the Democrats' challenge by making gun control an issue in the midterm. Midterm's have lower turnout than presidential elections, allowing an energized base of voters, like gun rights supporters, to have an out-sized impact on the results.

B) Biden Gun Violence Task Force

In Washington, blue-ribbon task forces are reserved for issues where you want the appearance of taking action, without having to actually do anything. There's a reason we've had so many task forces on government spending and the debt. Politicians want to look like they are doing something on an issue. By the time the task force completes its work, the national conversation will have moved on to a new issue.

Task forces are also effective ways to slow down a push for legislation. Legislators can defer taking action while the task force completes its "review" of the issue. Its a very convenient way to kick an issue down the road until after the immediate emotions have cooled.

Obama's press conference yesterday marked the zenith of the new push for gun control. Its momentum will fade as the raw emotions around the shooting recede. With it, the appetite for new gun control laws will fall away. Obama's task force is recognition of that.

---------------------------------

Did I leave anything out?

97 replies, 7387 views

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Reply Two Big Reasons Why New Gun Controls Aren't Going to Happen (Original post)
LAGC Dec 2012 OP
villager Dec 2012 #1
LAGC Dec 2012 #2
villager Dec 2012 #30
LAGC Dec 2012 #34
qkvhj Dec 2012 #77
graham4anything Dec 2012 #3
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #24
beevul Dec 2012 #37
friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #41
Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #76
sarisataka Dec 2012 #40
-..__... Dec 2012 #49
krispos42 Dec 2012 #73
holdencaufield Dec 2012 #89
msongs Dec 2012 #4
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #5
LAGC Dec 2012 #6
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #10
LAGC Dec 2012 #13
graham4anything Dec 2012 #38
holdencaufield Dec 2012 #90
graham4anything Dec 2012 #91
holdencaufield Dec 2012 #92
graham4anything Dec 2012 #93
Glassunion Dec 2012 #94
Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #57
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #25
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #44
sir pball Dec 2012 #48
squicked Dec 2012 #7
discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #23
Jenoch Dec 2012 #96
Riftaxe Dec 2012 #8
Riftaxe Dec 2012 #9
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #11
Riftaxe Dec 2012 #12
Pholus Dec 2012 #14
Riftaxe Dec 2012 #15
Pholus Dec 2012 #16
Riftaxe Dec 2012 #17
Pholus Dec 2012 #19
Riftaxe Dec 2012 #20
Pholus Dec 2012 #22
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #70
BrightKnight Dec 2012 #46
GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #62
Pholus Dec 2012 #78
gejohnston Dec 2012 #79
Pholus Dec 2012 #81
gejohnston Dec 2012 #82
Pholus Dec 2012 #83
gejohnston Dec 2012 #84
Pholus Dec 2012 #85
gejohnston Dec 2012 #86
Pholus Dec 2012 #87
gejohnston Dec 2012 #88
Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #68
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #69
Abq_Sarah Dec 2012 #95
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #97
jpak Dec 2012 #18
Riftaxe Dec 2012 #21
jpak Dec 2012 #26
Riftaxe Dec 2012 #33
Dems to Win Dec 2012 #27
virginia mountainman Dec 2012 #28
jpak Dec 2012 #32
villager Dec 2012 #53
Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #29
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #31
Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #45
Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #50
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #58
Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #63
DonP Dec 2012 #64
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #65
Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #66
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #67
Lurks Often Dec 2012 #71
krispos42 Dec 2012 #74
jpak Dec 2012 #35
Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #52
Dems to Win Dec 2012 #36
Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #55
graham4anything Dec 2012 #39
Dr_Scholl Dec 2012 #42
AlinPA Dec 2012 #43
ralfy Dec 2012 #47
ann--- Dec 2012 #51
JustAnotherGen Dec 2012 #54
friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #59
JustAnotherGen Dec 2012 #60
gejohnston Dec 2012 #61
JustAnotherGen Dec 2012 #72
BrightKnight Dec 2012 #75
The Wielding Truth Dec 2012 #56
Loudly Dec 2012 #80

Response to LAGC (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:26 AM

1. I think you left out the bodies of twenty dead children.

n/t

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Response to villager (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:35 AM

2. Many more children die each year due to gun violence.

But that hasn't slowed the liberalization of gun laws over the past 15 years.

As the "fiscal cliff" looms, the media will eventually lose interest in the shooting, and will move on, and emotions will fade.

Plus there are many more "assault weapons" owners than back in 1994, many more daily. I just don't see the same dynamics at play as there was when the original 1994 ban was voted into law.

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Response to LAGC (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:20 PM

30. The dynamics, with this particular slaughter, are different this time.


I guess we'll know by the end of January, when Biden & co. make their legislative recommendations

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Response to villager (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:28 PM

34. Indeed. We shall see.

I'm not holding my breath though.

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Response to villager (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 10:29 PM

77. The rest of the story

 

Many more children are beat to death each year than are killed by guns and there are already laws against beating a child too. In on anymore dead than the other?

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Response to LAGC (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:41 AM

3. 3 words- THE GREAT EQUALIZER...MIKE BLOOMBERG. He is going to be in the NRA face in 2014/2016

 

and backing ANY candidate anti-gun, anti-NRA

and he is relentless

and he is a great American Patriot, a great Liberal Democrat from Mass

and the NRA folks hate him

Meek Mayor Mike. He is the GREAT EQUALIZER

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:29 AM

24. He is a repuke 1%er who will soon be consigned to the ash heap of punditry

He made it to the talk shows this past weekend, lets see is he sinks beneath the horizon again by January

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:46 PM

37. A great american patriot? "Stop and frisk" ring a bell? n/t

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Response to beevul (Reply #37)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 05:20 PM

41. The Fourth Amendment, like the Second, is a speedbump as far as Bloomie is concerned.

Aren't you glad to have so many good Americans that are ready and willing to
abrogate our rights? For our own good, of course...

<"Sarcasm Mode" to OFF>

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #41)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 10:01 PM

76. I know right! nt

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:06 PM

40. Great post

You should cross post it into GD. If you won't do I have your permission to do so?

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:58 AM

49. Uhhhh... DU hates him too.

 

Or did you miss the discussions regarding Bloomys "Stop and Frisk" program?

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Response to -..__... (Reply #49)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:30 AM

73. Not to mention the OWS brutality n/t

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 08:09 PM

89. The mighty patriot ...

 

... who stood and faced the dreadful Big Gulp ...

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Response to LAGC (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:42 AM

4. intimidation and threats by america's gun owners. the bodies pile up daily nt

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Response to LAGC (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:48 AM

5. I Think Your Musings Are An Attempt At Wish Fulfillment

eom

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:49 AM

6. I don't want to see Republicans make gains in 2014.

We can't win back the House without the support of rural Democrats.

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Response to LAGC (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:31 AM

10. Dead Children Or Political Power We Know Where You Stand

eom

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:09 AM

13. If I really thought new gun controls would prevent mass-murder, I'd be the first to sign up.

However, pursuing new gun controls would cost ALOT of political capital, with very little potential gain.

Demented individuals will always find ways to hurt people. We need to figure out how to stop them before they strike, not start banning shit (be it guns, music, video games, etc.) left and right.

While I don't agree that these tragedies are simply "the price we pay to live in a free society", we need to be realistic about what solutions will really work to prevent ALL forms of violence.

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Response to LAGC (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:52 PM

38. only 100% guns out of the street(but remaining in homes) can keep the streets safe

 

gun control of other kind is a start, but can't work because of the NRA parsing of what is or isn't that gun

Any firearm with a bullet that fires only one shot maybe


and I assume all of us can agree, a person only needs ONE gun and even at 3am in the morning while fast asleep, finding a gun safely away from the kids and needing to get it while disoriented from sleep, well, two guns are not needed. One can't fire both at the same time

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #38)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 08:14 PM

90. Have you explained that to the criminals and gang members...

 

...so they can be more thoughtful of your needs and keep their dirty ol' guns at home?

In America -- we have the right to BEAR arms -- not only the right to STORE arms.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #90)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 02:43 AM

91. Why are you so worried about the Mafia?

 

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #91)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 04:08 AM

92. Do you hear voices?

 

Who mentioned the Mafia?

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #92)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 04:21 AM

93. I just assumed you meant the Mafia when you started babbling about gangs

 

Did you mean the Irish Mafia back in the early days in NYC?
Did you mean the police motorcycle gangs?
The Hells Angels?
Maybe you meant a mob of MENSA?

being that no mass shooting is done by any member of any gang except the gang of the gun culture NRA, how are gangs relevant to anything in this day and age?

please specifically say what you mean, it is open to interpretation.

reminds me on Christmas, my mother in law was babbling about gangs during Katrina, when the only gang that was worrysome were the cops on Danzinger Bridge pinging any black person who dared look for dry land that was just one step away on the other side of the Bridge.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #93)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:47 PM

94. I think they were referring to the modern day gangs.

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Response to LAGC (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:03 PM

57. There is an enormous

difference between what one or to maniacs armed with regular guns can do and those armed with weapons of war. It is the inability of people like yourself to recognize this distinction that is responsible for our lack of adequate protections. It is impossible to determine, with 100% accuracy, when or who will turn into a homicidal maniac. The most we can hope to do is limit the number of victims. Why pretend you care, when any rational person knows it will never be possible to end all violence, not in a free society....not in any society.

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:29 AM

25. I really hope your nick is literal...

...because that is the most ridiculous, insulting false dichotomy I've seen in a very long time.

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 05:41 PM

44. Sometimes The Truth Hurts - Even Even More So When It Is Reality

eom

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:53 AM

48. So you sacrifice the political power

Only to see the laws you passed be repealed by the new Republican supermajority...brilliant!

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Response to LAGC (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 05:09 AM

7. There will be new gun controls but ...

the 2014 elections and the NRA will prevent any meaningful reforms from occurring. They will push for limited magazines, better registration, less violence in games, movies and on the back end throw a few dollars at mental health. It will be the typical Washington answer and finger pointing while most people will be angry that enough wasn't done.

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Response to squicked (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:13 AM

23. Well then...

...as long as there's someone(s) to blame then that's fine.

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Response to squicked (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 02:00 AM

96. Who is 'they'?

Your writing imdicates you are referencing the NRA but that can't be correct because the NRA will never endorse gun registration. (That is something in which I agree. Registration does nothing but identify which law-abiding citizens own guns).

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Response to LAGC (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:17 AM

8. It will be like last time I suspect

First the members of congress will check their stock portfolio's

(which is why last time my shotgun was banned....small Italian company)

Upon discovering that banning select firearms will not affect them financially, they will then to decide to focus
on appearance of arms (pistol grips, jagged corners, etc).

Last ban i sold my shotgun for x300% and my little .22LR rifle for x200% because the idiots who wrote the law, had now clue about the law they were writing.

last round they banned a shotgun and a plinking rifle, both of which is still in circulation but i have no idea or control of them these days...

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Response to Riftaxe (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:23 AM

9. For those interested

was a franchi spas 12 and a calico .22 lr with wooden stock...those darn spiral magazines will be the death of us all!!!!

The shotgun only did semi-auto with slugs anyways.

(heh unlike the ruger .22 at least the magazine never jammed)

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Response to LAGC (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:36 AM

11. Boys and their toys.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #11)


Response to Riftaxe (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:24 AM

14. "Adults." Like card-carrying "Men" perchance?

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Response to Pholus (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:32 AM

15. Is that supposed to make sense?

please explain your visual babble.

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Response to Riftaxe (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:42 AM

16. I just think gun advertisers know the minds of their customers.


Sorry if you consider it "babble" because I see it more as a damning self-indictment from Bushmaster.

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Response to Pholus (Reply #16)


Response to Riftaxe (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:19 AM

19. And the so-called "adult" goes straight for the anatomical joke


Most of the problem I have with the over-the-top weapons like the Bushmaster is that many of their owners seem to be fundamentally unserious people. This ad (from a successful two year long campaign ending only on 12/18) supports that thesis -- indicating that a nontrivial fraction of Bushmaster customers may find the purchase the weapon appealing because of masculine self-image issues. Given the inherent recklessness and self-disregard of risk inherent in our current popular image of what is "manly," this is not a behavior consistent with the prerequisites for responsiblity or trust. It is the kind of ideal that has me snatching keys away at parties to prevent drunken auto accidents.

Now you obviously dismiss this as merely an ad, but between the two of us it apparently got you thinking of those phalluses first.

Advertising works by getting inside your head. It has already worked on you. Bushmaster knew what appealed to their clients.

If you were honest with yourself, you would see why this ad is a problem you need to address.

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Response to Pholus (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:24 AM

20. Shit so your saying my hi karate means i am less then a man

you dodged my point.
'
Word salad will not get your point across....either accuse me of something or refute my point.

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Response to Riftaxe (Reply #20)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:33 AM

22. Guess it depends on the timbre of your voice as you say it.

You made two points in your last post.

1) It's just an ad.
2) You claim I have a small unit.

I addressed the first one. The ad defines the audience. This particular ad is not a positive message for your position as we debate why these high-powered weapons are necessary.

So I guess you mean the second one? Really, I need to address that one? You'll have to beg for *that* Mister Adult.

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Response to Riftaxe (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:26 PM

70. Hmmm, actually if you really are wearing Hi Karate, but I digress...

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Response to Pholus (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 06:49 PM

46. That image and everything behind it is what I would BAN!

The marketing and some parts of the "gun culture" have bloody hands.

When a company markets a gun as a an empowering solution to solve all of your problems they cross the line.


A gun is an effective hunting and defense tool. There is nothing wrong with target shooting.

The gun manufacturers that fund the NRA don't want any restrictions on their marketing efforts. "More doctors smoke Camels"

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Response to BrightKnight (Reply #46)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:00 AM

62. I take it you want to repeal the First Amendment? N/T

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #62)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 10:36 PM

78. The NRA already gags free and open scientific inquiry, so why not? nt

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Response to Pholus (Reply #78)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 10:58 PM

79. no they don't

it had to do with one director of the CDC. There are criminologists, not MDs playing criminologists, doing their own research.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #79)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 12:00 AM

81. Sadly they do. We all know why.


What NRA dues pays for -- lack of transparency, secrecy, BAD PUBLIC SCIENTIFIC POLICY.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-20/why-does-the-nra-fear-the-truth-about-gun-violence-.html

The Honorable Mr. Brandeis' sunshine is needed in Fairfax Virginia. Badly.

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Response to Pholus (Reply #81)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 12:09 AM

82. the editorial is full of shit

I won't even begin to list all of the nonsense.
The first lie is what the Tiahrt Amendemt
Tiahrt Amendment

Tiahrt is the author of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) from releasing information from its firearms trace database to anyone other than a law enforcement agency or prosecutor in connection with a criminal investigation. Additionally, any data so released is inadmissible in a civil lawsuit. Some groups, including the Mayors Against Illegal Guns Coalition, believe that having further access to the ATF database would help municipal police departments track down sellers of illegal guns and curb crime. These groups are trying to undo the Tiahrt Amendment. Conversely, the Tiahrt Amendment is supported by the Fraternal Order of Police, as it allows municipal police departments full access to ATF trace data in any criminal investigation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Tiahrt#Tiahrt_Amendment
I never believe anything I read in editorials.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #82)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 12:12 AM

83. So it is JUST like the NRA.


Anyone who censors science is on the wrong side. Period. End of story.

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Response to Pholus (Reply #83)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 12:20 AM

84. MAIG and the NRA are both full of shit

but they are not censoring science. Science goes on. As I understand the situation, the CDC director set out to make antigun ad campaigns with backed with shill studies. That was the claim. True or not, that was the claim. Either way, I'm not big on MDs pretending to be criminologists. There have been criminologists studying the issue for years. Problem is, ones not funded by anti gun groups don't have the results they like.

That said, I showed where the editorial was spreading misinformation on just that one thing. MAIG and Brady lied about the Amendment. Comparing their claim and the law, makes it obvious.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #84)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 12:51 AM

85. The Anti-science position of the NRA is quite obvious:

----------------------------------------------------------
1) Injury prevention and control is in the mission statement of the CDC. Yup, guns injure people so it's in the mission statement.
----------------------------------------------------------

CDC Mission (http://www.cdc.gov/about/organization/mission.htm)

Healthy PlacesCollaborating to create the expertise, information, and tools that people and communities need to protect their health – through health promotion, prevention of disease, injury and disability, and preparedness for new health threats.

CDC seeks to accomplish its mission by working with partners throughout the nation and the world to

monitor health,
detect and investigate health problems,
conduct research to enhance prevention,
develop and advocate sound public health policies,
implement prevention strategies,
promote healthy behaviors,
foster safe and healthful environments,
provide leadership and training.

Those functions are the backbone of CDC′s mission. Each of CDC′s component organizations undertakes these activities in conducting its specific programs. The steps needed to accomplish this mission are also based on scientific excellence, requiring well-trained public health practitioners and leaders dedicated to high standards of quality and ethical practice.

--------------------------------------------------------

2) The NRA sponsored mandate to the CDC which is STILL in force (AR-13: Prohibition on Use of CDC Funds for Certain Gun Control Activities, http://www.cdc.gov/od/pgo/funding/grants/additional_req.shtm#ar13)

--------------------------------------------------------

The Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act specifies that: "None of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control."

Anti-Lobbying Act requirements prohibit lobbying Congress with appropriated Federal monies. Specifically, this Act prohibits the use of Federal funds for direct or indirect communications intended or designed to influence a member of Congress with regard to specific Federal legislation. This prohibition includes the funding and assistance of public grassroots campaigns intended or designed to influence members of Congress with regard to specific legislation or appropriation by Congress.

In addition to the restrictions in the Anti-Lobbying Act, CDC interprets the language in the CDC's Appropriations Act to mean that CDC's funds may not be spent on political action or other activities designed to affect the passage of specific Federal, State, or local legislation intended to restrict or control the purchase or use of firearms.

----------------------------------------------------------

3) In practice the "anti lobbying provision" (stated in its entirety above) is a deliberately vague statement directly intended to muzzle any unfavorable research. As written, any study showing a problem with guns obviously can obviously be interpreted as "advocating gun control." Indirect communications can include WRITTEN ARTICLES so published journal articles count as "lobbying" by this act even if the author never intended the article to be read by a member of congress. A shameful use of "anti-lobbying" legislation by the supremely corrupt lobbying group

Effectively, ANY scientific study into gun violence is stopped by a federal agency with the mandate to do the work in their mission statement.

This ain't one guy's crusade from 30 years back. It is current policy, whose chilling effects are freely discussed by people working the field.

Typical politicians. Typical NRA. Anti-free inquiry to the end. Of course, when you're holding 8 high I guess you need to hedge your bet somehow.

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Response to Pholus (Reply #85)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:02 AM

86. not buying it for a couple of reasons

first, NIJ does it. Second, so do universities. Third, the US isn't the only country on the planet. CDC is hardly the only game in town.
second, it prohibits political activities. If they can't tell the difference between scientific research and political activities, I can't help them. I'm not a lawyer, but it looks clear to me.

Fourth, I don't like MDs playing amateur sociologist any more than I like sociologists practicing medicine.
Typical politicians. Typical NRA. Anti-free inquiry to the end. Of course, when you're holding 8 high I guess you need to hedge your bet somehow.
Given that the criminologists with NIJ grants under Carter came up with results gun control advocates didn't like. So, I don't buy the whole premise.

Like the NRA, MAIG, Brady, VPC, SAF, or not. They are trying to sell an ideology. By nature, all ideologies will lie and distort facts when reality doesn't serve their purpose.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #86)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 07:50 PM

87. Not "buying it" is irrelevant.

1) You are ignorant of what the CDC does and the range of talent and the types of people who work for them. Before you spout nonsense again and waste someone else's time, read this and learn something for a change:

http://www.cdc.gov/employment/menu_topjobs.html

2) Burden is on you -- tell how the definition I quoted before PRECLUDES some in-the-NRA-pocket congressman from classifying ANYTHING they don't like coming out of the CDC as political lobbying. Including a mere statement of numbers. Seeing how the tiniest factoid might "influence" a decision that rule is a baldfaced politically motivated muzzle, just one you happen to like so you see nothing wrong with it. By the way, appeals to expertise are irrelevant here -- you don't have to be a lawyer, you merely need to know how to read. Are you pleading ignorance on that?

3) Given that the "NIJ grants under Carter" pass some test of yours as solid research, we can safely conclude this entire thread PROVES that you're happy with research that backs up your preconceived notion and consider things you don't like to be "ideological" and untrustworthy. In other words, you are a living example of "confirmation bias:"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

As such, you really have nothing worthwhile to add to a discussion. Your mind is made up, it will not change.

Add to that, you hate free scientific inquiry of course. Unless it says what you want it to. Of course, then it isn't "free" is it?

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Response to Pholus (Reply #87)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 07:58 PM

88. I know how to read quite well

I fear you may be projecting.
Yes, Carter era Rossi and Wright study was very solid.
Don't see any criminologists on the list.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 08:13 PM

68. what a gross and condescending, passive/agressive thing to say.

but, you knew that didn't you.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #68)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:24 PM

69. That is who these stupid guns are marketed at.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:20 AM

95. What about women?

And their legally owned firearms? Or would you rather we be denied the opportunity to protect ourselves?

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Response to Abq_Sarah (Reply #95)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 08:08 AM

97. Gun culture is overwhelmingly male.

It is a stereotype. Like all stereotypes it is not the claim that all gun nuts are arrested development males, it is the claim that a significant majority are.

Thanks for asking though.

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Response to LAGC (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:15 AM

18. Dream on - the BACKLASH is here

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:25 AM

21. You are predictable jpak

Like the sun rising in the east, you are predictable at least hope you are having a good morning

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Response to Riftaxe (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:47 AM

26. And wishing you a Gun Free Day

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Response to jpak (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:25 PM

33. Any day is a good start

and thank you!

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Response to LAGC (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:03 PM

27. I'm certain there will be no EFFECTIVE action and the massacres will continue. We'll have to keep

working for real gun control -- it might take decades. As it took decades to obtain the vote for women. We can't give up.

Repeal the Second Amendment NOW

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Response to Dems to Win (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:17 PM

28. You do realize the trends are very much different?

Even after the ct massacre, Ohio still signed some new pro-gun laws into effect? Much to the howling of some anti-civil liberty people here?

In the vast majority of the US, Gun Rights rule the day.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Reply #28)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:25 PM

32. Ohio **republicans** vote for those laws - and Gungeoneers cheer them.

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #32)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:50 PM

53. Just as they cheer for the far-right policies of the NRA -- and have tried to make us think

"everyone" supports them...

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Response to Dems to Win (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:17 PM

29. A big majority of Americans support 2A. School shootings can be reduced

by increasing police/trained security on school campuses. Some schools have already done this, some have inadequate armed presence, some are committed to a fanciful policy of "gun-free zones."

I suggest national legislation to fund security measures at schools, and let CITIZENS DECIDE what they want, school-by-school.

What do think?

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:21 PM

31. Yes it would be far better to militarize all public spaces than to restrict in any way your access

to your precious toys.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 05:48 PM

45. toys?

cute.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #31)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:48 PM

50. wow. a couple of cops in a school. "militarized." wow.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #50)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:00 PM

58. wow you and the NRA so dont get it wow.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #58)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:41 AM

63. You don't want to get it: Some schools ALREADY have

armed security, just not enough. It's nothing new, except to those who mask their dishonesty in passion.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #63)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:46 AM

64. Lane Tech in Chicago already has 2 armed Chicago cops there every day

My daughter teaches there and they have had on duty cops walking the halls every day for at least the last 10 years. They started it in response to parent requests for better security to deal with what was an emerging gang problem.

I know it sounds amazing, but in the last decade no one has knocked them to the ground and took their guns.

Why is it all of a sudden a horrible thing to have an armed cop or security person in a school? Just because you don't like the a-hole that said it?

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #63)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 01:50 PM

65. Good point, for example columbine.

But "just not enough". Of course. Because lock stepping with the NRA the solution to our hideous gun problem is MORE GUNZ.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #65)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:14 PM

66. Better armed, trustworthy staff than impractical prohibition...

Please note I posted in favor of more security before the NRA got around to it.

BTW, was armed security actually present at Columbine? Here in Austin, only a few armed personnel travel school-to-school by auto; there is no full-time coverage. I don't know what the policy of the Conn. school is.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #66)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:33 PM

67. I hadn't noticed the huge number of massacres committed with full auto weapons.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #66)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:03 PM

71. For CT it probably depends on town,

but those police departments that have a School Resource Officer aka trained, certified police officer seem to assign them to high schools either exclusively or almost exclusively.

I'm in a small suburban town with about 12-14,000 people in it and we have a school resource officer assigned full time to the high school.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #31)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:38 AM

74. Your approach is unreasonable and ineffective.

You are talking about trying to starve a handful of individuals who are mentally capable of slaughtering children by drying up an enormous pool of guns and accessories.


I mean, this guy was SICK. He had absolutely no compassion in him. None. He was turning 1st-graders into HAMBURGER with a rifle, and neither the concept nor the reality of doing so stopped him. The blood splattering, the roar of gunfire, the screams of children.... none of this touched him in the slightest!!!


And your solution is to try to keep the couple of dozen or couple of hundred people in the country that are capable of this level of depravity from getting guns?



Look, teachers are trusted individuals. Educated, intelligent, loving, passionate, and when they're hired they presumably have some sort of background check done. If we can trust them to raise out children for 30 hours a week for the 12 most formative years of their lives, I think we can trust a few of them to carry a concealed pistol to protect them.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:29 PM

35. Tax guns and ammo to pay for that security

Freedom isn't Free and all the happy haorseshit.

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #35)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:50 PM

52. Unconstitutional. You want the equivalent of a poll tax.nt

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:35 PM

36. Schoolchildren aren't criminals. They do not deserve to be put into prison every day.

I do not accept that law-abiding citizens must imprison themselves and their children because some Americans selfishly demand the right to play with lethal toys as their entertainment.

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Response to Dems to Win (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:57 PM

55. Children are already required by law to be in school...

even though they are not criminals. And many schools ALREADY have armed personnel on campus. Trouble is, the personnel usually are not there full-time.

There is no such thing as a gun-free zone; only signs wishing such.

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Response to Dems to Win (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:54 PM

39. Yup. It took 100 years after Lincoln's 13th for LBJ to secure voting rights/civil rights

 

and it takes a redwood decades from the planting of a seed

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Response to LAGC (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 05:29 PM

42. Another reason.

 

The Republican controlled House.

There is no way in hell the Republicans, and more than a few House Dems for that matter, will pass any gun control.

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Response to LAGC (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 05:40 PM

43. The NRA will stop any attempt to limit the access to assault weapons for the killers.

They simply do not care about all these massacres.

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Response to LAGC (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:56 AM

47. Arms Manufacturers and Sales

For me, the main reason is that the U.S. economy is controlled by powerful business organizations, including financial groups in Wall Street and arms manufacturers. Arms manufacturers profit from local sales and from exports. Government avoids gun control as much as possible thanks to lobbying while also making it easier for manufacturers to export arms to other countries. At the same time, manufacturers and the defense industry arm and equip police and military forces, both of which with surveillance and prison systems are growing and are used to control the populace.

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Response to LAGC (Original post)


Response to LAGC (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:56 PM

54. Then lets get

Bullet control on the table. There's an old Chris Rock schtick where he proposes making one bullet cost $5000.

Why not price controls or a TAX on that collected by the Fed. A few years ago I seem to recall a box of 50 for a 9 millimeter costing about $12 at Wal-Mart. Make that box of 50 cost $1200 after taxes AND put folks through rigourous background checks. Keep a database of people who buy ammunition -

Or - make it available only at Federal Dispensaries. Not sure how it works in PA today - but years ago while visitng a friend at Mercyhurst college you had to go to a state dispensary to purchase alcholic beverages.

Both bullets and beer when used improperly with a 'vehicle' in support (think gun/car) cause death when used by people improperly.

You can own a gun. You can keep your gun today. But you can't buy bullets. And make a mandatory 20 year Fed Prison sentence for anyone found selling ammunition outside of the Fed Gov't dispensaries.


If it's TRULY a lost cause to do ANYTHING to curb gun ownership - price using the guns out of the range of normal every day purchase, and keep track of who buys bullets. Do it through the existing OFAC system/Bridger/Lexus Nexus.


***************************************

I hope I've not come off as either naive or snarky - but I do not believe that there is ANYTHING on this planet that is an ungettable get. Anything is gettable if you just get to getting it done. Sometimes though you have to blast through the mountain when you can't to the top to climb over it.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #54)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:34 AM

59. Tax to inhibit an enumerated civil right? Won't fly.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #59)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 08:49 AM

60. Read that - thanks

Then why do I pay such enormous taxes on cigarettes? Or my husband on his American Spirit loose tobacco? Technically - he's not buying cigarettes . . . He is rolling his own.

The idea is to shift the burden of monitoring it on the people who need to monitored.

I know the cost of that box of cartridges for a reason. . I have zero problem declaring to my fellow Americans via the Fed Government those 50 bullets in my possession. If my next door neighbor has 300 of those boxes - I would like to know why. Really - if you only need one. And the fact that I've had them for as long as I have tells me that I really only need one.

So if not a tax - limit the number they can be sold to in boxes of five? 12 for hunting rifles? Gun Ranges sell them/loan them by the bullet and you get back your deposit on any you don't use while learning/practicing?

I'm also not certain mass produced cartridges were indeed covered by the 2nd Amendment. Another poster pointed out to me on another thread that at the time of Revolution - the colonists made their own. So the product sold today didn't exist. It was not even conceived at the time.

Not giving you a hard time to give it. But firearms themselves may not be possible to regulate that I think they really need to be. So fine - you can buy an AK-47 - but each bullet on the magazine should be priced at $30 and you can only buy it from the Fed - or law enforcement. My husband's guns in our home in Italy he had to get through the Police. And he has to re-register every few years.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #60)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:35 AM

61. I didn't see smoking

mentioned in the BoR.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #61)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:51 AM

72. Neither

Was the right to purchase bullets/magazines/cartridges. I've combed through it several times and I can't see it. What am I missing?

Or was it implied? Like the right to pursue happiness included the acquisition of property - even if that being purchased was a living breathing human being. Here's how that played out -

2nd Amendment to the U. S. Constitution ratified. Reads: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

But then this -
Uniform Militia Act of 1792 “called for the enrollment of every free, able-bodied white male citizen between the ages of eighteen and forty-five” to be in the militia, and specified that every militia member was to “provide himself with a musket or firelock, a bayonet, and ammunition


If we are going to adhere to these very old ideas and take them at face value - what does that mean? Could this potentially mean my father's military benefits being paid to my mother could be revoked as the militias became our military - and he was never supposed to have been allowed to serve?


I think that's a silly idea. But Democratics tend to engage in progressive and forward thinking and don't have to do what a bunch of slave owners and slave owner supporters (by supporting te 2/3 Compromise I condemn them all) did - just because they did it.

Free Speech says I have the right to question everything. To include something written so long ago. Tey weren't perfect people and they are not infallible. If they were - they would have held themselves to higher moral standards.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #72)


Response to LAGC (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:58 PM

56. I don't see Biden letting go of this. He will present a good plan.

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Response to LAGC (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 11:18 PM

80. You're forgetting something. Another mass shooting is waiting in the wings.

 

And soon. The tipping point is here.

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