OK, here are some suggestions without impeding 2A rights.

Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:54 PM

a geek named Bob (2,715 posts)

1. Number 2 could be considered a violation or an infringement...

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Response to a geek named Bob (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:57 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

4. Could be. I think it should be tested.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:59 PM

a geek named Bob (2,715 posts)

5. okay

Let's design the test...

What's the duration of the test?
What's the compensation level?
We'll need multiple areas, for a decent sample size.

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Response to a geek named Bob (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:42 AM

cleanhippie (14,587 posts)

39. Stop it. You are asking him to actually THINK about what he says...

Why interrupt a perfectly good emotional knee-jerk?

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #39)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:06 PM

a geek named Bob (2,715 posts)

40. good point...

I guess I'm just set in my ways: rational testing of ideas.

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Response to a geek named Bob (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:32 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

112. You're a geek Bob. Why don't you design it.

I'm just an old guy trying to come up with ideas. Feel free to contribute.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #112)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:58 PM

a geek named Bob (2,715 posts)

125. great... another thing ot add to the job stack...

okay... do you have any parameters, or am I just throwing darts at a board?

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Response to a geek named Bob (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:37 PM

rbixby (1,075 posts)

156. I had someone say that it was a violation of 2nd amendment rights

for private businesses, churches, etc, to ban guns. I think that's a little ridiculous, if I don't want people carrying guns in my house, I think its reasonable to ask people not to bring them.

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Response to rbixby (Reply #156)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:40 PM

a geek named Bob (2,715 posts)

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #78)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:02 PM

gejohnston (12,830 posts)

83. it is?

besides the seven words, and transmitting uniformity? copyright and trademark?

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #83)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:11 PM

a geek named Bob (2,715 posts)

126. well...

you can get busted for fraud and threats, and criminal materials.

That sounds like regulation in my book.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #78)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:36 PM

ProgressiveProfessor (22,144 posts)

193. And the Pirate Bay is just a figment of someone's imagination

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Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:57 PM

NYC_SKP (49,507 posts)

3. Not bad, let me pick at it a bit:

We have the technology to implement the following. Do we have the will?

1. All semi-automatics, handguns and long guns, must be fitted with biometric safeties and have GPS chips embedded.

That leaves, what, shotguns and air rifles? Both can be pretty deadly, but I catch your drift.

2. Local authority has overriding power to declare gun-free zones.

Maybe good, maybe bad, depends upon application.

3. All owners of semi-autos should pass psych evaluation, with periodic reviews.

Not bad.

4. Background checks should be limited to history of violence or mental instability.

As opposed to what other criteria?

5. Owners of revolvers, shotguns and bolt action rifles would only be subject to background checks.

Got it, consistent with #3, sort of.

6. No carry without special certification and carry weapon must have GPS chip.

This one I love.

Thanks for a well-reasoned proposal.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:06 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

11. Thanks

I left shotguns and air rifles because they account for relatively few killings. Trying to draw a reasonable line, see how it goes and if necessary, down the road, impose the same restrictions on them as on semi-autos.
Number 4 was about not restricting people who stole a pizza, or a car, or sold a few ounces of pot. But I would be looking at people with 3 or more DUIs within a time frame.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:11 PM

NYC_SKP (49,507 posts)

15. I think it's a thoughtful approach.

Interesting about the shotgun part, as my ownership preference for purposes of self and home defense are for a shotgun.

They won't hurt the neighbors or others in a quarter mile radius, and I don't need great aim.

I am not in the league with CCW proponents, but as a one time NYC resident I can understand circumstances that warrant these, so won't try to regulate their lives.

Not a bad plan, overall.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:02 PM

gejohnston (12,830 posts)

6. my thoughts

We have the technology to implement the following. Do we have the will?

No we don't. If we did, a European company like Walther, FN, or Glock would have already done it. Maybe a US upstart to get a fat cop contract.

1. All semi-automatics, handguns and long guns, must be fitted with biometric safeties and have GPS chips embedded.

so, not machine guns? Why not just say all guns, that is what you said. Oh wait, you misused a comma. My bad.

2. Local authority has overriding power to declare gun-free zones.

they do. Schools and malls are generally gun free zones. Some speculate that is why Holmes picked the theater he did. Out of the several theaters playing Batman, including one near his home, he happened to pick the one that was a gun free zone.

3. All owners of semi-autos should pass psych evaluation, with periodic reviews.

Never happen, HIPPA laws, subjective tests etc. No other country AFAIK does this, could be for a reason.

4. Background checks should be limited to history of violence or mental instability.

I would remove nonviolent pot possession or something, but I would add what I added before.

5. Owners of revolvers, shotguns and bolt action rifles would only be subject to background checks.

status quo

6. No carry without special certification and carry weapon must have GPS chip.

I like our federal system, each state do its own thing. No forced ban or forced reciprocity. Just a ban on an arbitrary criteria. GPS chip needs power source, like cell phones. Guns are mechanical.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:08 PM

Tuesday Afternoon (44,885 posts)

13. thank you for stating this so much better than I did below. but, this mental stuff has to be careful

there is a thread in Meta about this very thing.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:04 PM

atreides1 (10,263 posts)

7. Suggestion

You need to make sure that none of these violate any other rights.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:04 PM

hack89 (21,522 posts)

8. Number 2 is unconstitutional

do you really want state rights?

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Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:05 PM

Tuesday Afternoon (44,885 posts)

10. microchips. how sci-fi of you. define mental instability. GPS chip? kiss my ass.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:13 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

16. GPS chips are part of life now, like it or not

The only way to have an effective gun-free zone is with the application of GPS tracking. It's already in every cellphone and a shitload of other devices out there. Hell, my point-and-shoot camera has one built-in.
Wouldn't you want to know where your missing gun was?

Professionals would define mental instability.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #16)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:19 PM

Tuesday Afternoon (44,885 posts)

19. you do realize that most pros get in the field to try and understand their own neuroses/psychoses?

Last edited Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:09 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

Please. This is a people issue. Our laws are in place and law abiding, tax paying citizens are already following them

The data shows this.

We need to get our schizophrenics diagnosed and on the right medicine.

We need to provide support groups for the families.

We need to help our veterans with PTSD.

We need to remove the stigma of depression.

You are in violation of HIPAA with what you suggesting.

and individuals have the right to privacy in their movements. isn't that the very basis of the meaning of Freedom?

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #19)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:06 AM

LeftofU (498 posts)

24. This can't agree with this post more.....

we are discussing huge changes to our freedoms for the chance that we may have a little less gun violence.

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Response to LeftofU (Reply #24)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:25 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

46. No, a lot less gun violence. Think about it.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #46)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 05:42 PM

Ashgrey77 (235 posts)

206. There isn't a lot of gun violence to begin with. 300 million people, 100 million guns

15000 to 20000 a year dead total, from accidents, homicides, and suicides? That's not even a drop in the bucket when you look at the big picture. 1 million people die a year from HEART DISEASE AND CANCER, do something about that first and maybe, just maybe, you'll be taken seriously when you scream at the top of your lungs about how much gun violence there is in the USA.

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Response to Ashgrey77 (Reply #206)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 06:43 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

208. Tell that to the families of the 30,000+ who lose their lives every year.

Heart disease and cancer have nothing to do with gun deaths. Nice try at deflecting.
You, my friend, will never be taken seriously until you address the problem at hand. Enjoy your stay.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #208)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:42 AM

Ashgrey77 (235 posts)

215. Death is death, nice try at deflecting that fact. n/t

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Response to Ashgrey77 (Reply #215)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 12:19 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

It's also about not losing your guns.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #85)

Tuesday Afternoon This message was self-deleted by its author.

Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #89)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:16 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

91. My whole point to you was they wouldn't have been stolen with this technology

Or you would know where they are. Also they would be inoperable by anyone other than you.
I hope you get them back before they are used to cause harm.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #91)

Tuesday Afternoon This message was self-deleted by its author.

Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:24 AM

ProgressiveProfessor (22,144 posts)

26. How well did they work in the Mexican gun thing?

The technical challenges here are more than you realize. Power, antenna, 2 law transmission.

A better approach might be some sort of LoJack but many of the same challenges would remain

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #26)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:31 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

47. Try to be positive here please.

The technology is there and it's a great opportunity for a hi-tech company. It is a form of LoJack. Power is no more difficult than powering a cellphone.
I see it working pretty much the same as an AIS system combined with an ankle bracelet type system. I use AIS all the time to avoid collisions in shipping lanes.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #47)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:57 PM

ProgressiveProfessor (22,144 posts)

80. All the optimism in the world will not trump the physics

Serious RF issues alone

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #80)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:10 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

86. Quit being a naysayer. We have the technology.

If your only issue is with the physics of it, then we have a winner, because the geeks will figure it out. They do shit like this in their sleep.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #86)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:27 PM

ProgressiveProfessor (22,144 posts)

97. As a geek with some RF background, no we don't

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #97)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:31 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #111)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:17 PM

Travis_0004 (961 posts)

142. And what do you do when the battery dies (or is removed)

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #142)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:28 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

Not even close. You've done nothing but thrown out half assed ideas without even doing the slightest effort to discuss the obvious technical shortcomings. Asking others to do your homework for you? No, this isn't grade school and we aren't your parents...

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Response to Clames (Reply #200)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 06:58 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

209. Right Mr. Negativity, except it will be you who loses his guns, not me.

You may well roll your eyes. I'm coming up with solutions that many here have embraced and you don't even want to contribute. You, and those like you, are a major part of the problem. Have a nice day!

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #209)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 07:32 PM

gejohnston (12,830 posts)

210. what you think is a solution is really

just a good "first step" to others. Using an analogy I've used before (and depending on your knowledge of US history, may or may not get) if we accept going on this reservation, what guarantee is there that there won't be missionary boarding schools next? Calls for another concession for some other reason will soon follow your idea.
Even if we had murder rates like Switzerland and Canada, there would be still pushes for gun control just like there is in those countries. The reason? It is a culture war that has nothing to do with public safety. In the US, it is urban vs rural. In Switzerland, it seems to be more French/Italian vs German. That doesn't mean that there isn't well meaning people that honestly believe that it will make their communities safer, there are. They just happen to be the minority.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #210)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 08:21 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

212. Are you saying a minority want safer communities?

I hope not. There is something essentially wrong when you look at the stats of the US along with the rest of the world. If the majority actually think more guns in circulation with less restrictions is the answer then we have a broken/failed society.
The problem isn't rural vs. urban, but each trying to impose it's values on the other. Guns have a valid place in rural America, just as gun-free zones have a place in urban America.
That's why I offer these suggestions, so that we can find a way to be safe without giving away any basic rights. I'm very encouraged by many of the positive responses I've received. We can do it if we want to.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #212)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 08:39 PM

gejohnston (12,830 posts)

214. I'm saying the minority is motivated by

the belief that it will make their communities safe.
Compared to the world at large, we are doing OK.
Compared to the other OECD countries, we are third in murder behind Mexico and Estonia. Worldwide, we are about 88th
Belgium is first in robberies
Denmark is first in burglaries
New Zealand is first in auto theft
Australia is first in rape
Scotland is first in assault
www.civitas.org.uk/crime/crime_stats_oecdjan2012.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0047235209000932

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Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:06 PM

JDPriestly (38,301 posts)

12. That is a good step in the right direction but would it be expensive to implement?

Last edited Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:06 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

I come up with actual solutions and you try to shoot them down because you don't think it's doable. You obviously haven't researched it. We follow migrating wildlife using this king of technology. We track out kids with this kind of technology. We date and place stamp photos with this kind of technology. Stick your head out of your cave sometime and see the light.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #57)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:43 PM

Clames (2,038 posts)

64. Still requires a transceiver.

You just don't get it do you. Trackable GPS systems with CDMA/cellular assistance require considerable amount of power when active. Even more so when signal degrades. My cellphone's temperature rises noticeably when I'm using data in 3G or 4G modes and the signal is weak. I work with military grade GPS systems. Wildlife trackers are passive and store the data on flash memory that has to be downloaded directly from the unit. Far from real-time SA. You have no idea what you are talking about. Suggest solutions when you actually have some and lay off the SciFi television...

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #133)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:53 AM

Clames (2,038 posts)

134. Nothing that would make you happy.

Oh well.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #108)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:46 PM

bobclark86 (511 posts)

130. It's only a good idea...

if it works. It doesn't. Ergo, not a good idea.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #130)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:21 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

136. Please explain what would not work

No point saying it doesn't if it hasn't even been tried

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:52 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

52. Biometric sensors are getting better by the day

I'm sure it can be figured out.
GPS chips are no problem. Power source is minimal. Any gun can accommodate a battery and antenna, just as easily as a cellphone does. Power can also be delivered wirelessly.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #52)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:55 PM

ProgressiveProfessor (22,144 posts)

79. You are overestimating the state of the art with biometrics

GPS chips are doable, the RF signal will be a real problem.

Wireless power is years away

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #79)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:14 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

90. Wireless power is already here.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #90)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:26 PM

ProgressiveProfessor (22,144 posts)

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #58)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 08:40 AM

Remmah2 (3,291 posts)

to make nanochips that cannot be disabled and could operate for decades (possibly longer) without needing to be powered up.

http://www.nanomatic.net/

http://www.nansulate.com/sustainability/Nansulate_for_Facility_Sustainability.pdf

http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2009/02/12/gps-chips-are-now-sm.html

Throw a little money at MIT and the entire gun will be coated in thousands of tiny GPS chips.

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Response to Justin_Beach (Reply #32)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:24 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

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Response to tortoise1956 (Reply #30)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:34 PM

Spryguy (120 posts)

123. In reply...

1. GPS chips have a couple of issues. The first one, of course, is a power source. (Should have thought of that myself, but it's been a long day) Another huge one is that what you've done with this is make it easier for thieves with a reasonable knowledge of modern electronics to locate weapons they can steal.
True, but that gives bigger incentive to either not own a death spewer or to lock it up tight!

2. Local authority is part of the problem we already face. What's to stop a city council form declaring the entire city a gun-free zone - including your house?

Nothing, and that is awesome

3. HIPPA laws would prevent this.

4. I think this runs into HIPPA also.

Change HIPPA law.

5. Why would you not include all weapons? I'm not beign snarky. Charles Whitman used a Remington model 700 6mm bolt-action and a shotgun, among other weapons, to kill 18 people.
Good point. I agree it should be all weapons.

6. What type of certification? Most states require a CCW license - is this similar?

I guess.

I really worry about the whole GPS chip thing. I'm guessing that it wouldn't be hard to disable the chip so that no one knew you were carrying, which would then mean that only the law-abiding citizens would show up on your app. Of course, that's the problem now - criminals don't worry about laws.

Well, I see gun owners AS potential criminals, so the app would at least give me some warning about a ds toter coming my way. You would have to make SEVERE criminal penalties, with affirmative justice adjustments, to discourage the existence of unchipped death spewers.

But hey, it's still fun to debate rational ideas presented without any personal invective, unlike so many other recent posters.

Thanks

1. All semi-automatics, handguns and long guns, must be fitted with biometric safeties and have GPS chips embedded.
Such devices are not yet completely reliable. Further they will rely upon batteries which can run down. You need to learn the difference between a GPS receiver and a transmitter.

2. Local authority has overriding power to declare gun-free zones.
Don't you mean "unarmed victim zone"? Criminals and nuts don't pay attention to such zones.

3. All owners of semi-autos should pass psych evaluation, with periodic reviews.
There aren't enough psychiatrists in America to take care of all the semi-auto owners. And no pysch would want to take on the liability risk.

6. No carry without special certification and carry weapon must have GPS chip.
In most states a carry permit is needed. I can agree to that. But no to the GPS chip.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #38)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:58 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

81. I guess your cup is always half empty. What a shame.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:23 PM

fightthegoodfightnow (7,042 posts)

41. Notice How the Gun Clutching Crowd Will Call You Stupid After

Last edited Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:28 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

Last edited Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:51 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #84)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:50 AM

Eleanors38 (3,812 posts)

150. Would this be applied to 10s of millions of semi-auto hand guns as well?

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #150)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:15 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

151. Of course. Not much point otherwise is there?

The semi-auto handguns do most of the killings.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #151)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:47 AM

Eleanors38 (3,812 posts)

168. Then what would be the fate of revolvers?

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #168)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:14 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

169. Nothing

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Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:55 PM

GreenStormCloud (10,352 posts)

99. Criminals would love your GPS idea.

With a smartphone app, fellow carriers and others would be aware of who was armed or not. The carriers get to see where the other good guys are and the rest of us have more options in terms of our movements.

So a criminal could use a smart phone app to make sure that their intented victim was unarmed. Maybe you could call it the Safety For Criminals Act.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #99)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 06:49 PM

Dog Gone at Penigma (431 posts)

102. exactly what I was thinking about the GPS idea

Apart from the rather creepy big brother aspects of the idea - some central clearing house spying on you and your fellow carriers, it could also alert anyone who wanted to take your gun from you of where you were, when you were alone, etc.

I'm assuming that mid level hackers could disable such a device -- or enable false ones.

Does anyone else find this idea intrusive?

We can legally ban assault style weapons and expanded capacity magazines which is currently being posited as around 10 rounds.

That does NOT violate or infringe on the 2nd Amendment.

Neither does requiring full background checks for all transfers, sales, private sales, gifts, inheritances.

It is also a good idea to require all states to submit all the names of prohibited owners to the NICS data base; right now to few states have submitted all of the applicable names, and some haven't submitted any.

Another good idea - keep convicted drug users names in the system. If we have to, lets develop some method for people to get their records expunged, the way they do other records of criminal activity after a certain amount of good behavior and a reasonable time lapse. Likewise, we should be barring anyone on the terrorist watch list from buying a gun; at the same time, we darned well are overdue to clean that thing up, and get people off of it who do NOT belong on it (ditto no fly, etc.). Right now to get off of either list, you have to find out what agency (of many) put your name on it, and then you have to petition them to get off - we need a single appeal entity, and a guaranteed thumbs up or thumbs down. Like the NICS, if they can't do that in three days, you should be able to buy a gun, get on a plane, or anything else you want to do that is legal.

We should be making it HARDER for former criminals to get their gun rights back (unlike say, voting rights), because those who do tend to re-offend. Unlike voting, where when a former felon begins voting he or she is 70% LESS likely to re-offend.

We should be requiring mental health evals or testing for everyone. We should be requiring eye tests for everyone - because if you can't see, you can't determine when or where to shoot, or who you are shooting at.

Anyone owning a gun should be required to carry insurance, like on your car, in case your gun is used to hurt someone. As part of a requirement for insurance, you should be required to have secure storage for your gun - and use it. You should be required to report lost or stolen guns to police. Part of buying insurance should however include that if you do have a theft or damage, you also get comp coverage for your loss. That would have the advantage of no longer putting gun owners at risk of the high cost of liability - an up side for the gun owner.

THAT is a reasonable list. The other one.....not so good.

We should be requiring microstamping.

We should be requiring that all states make it a crime not to keep guns away from children too.

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Response to Dog Gone at Penigma (Reply #102)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:08 PM

roninjedi (11 posts)

105. Not bad ideas!

Last edited Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:10 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

The individualistic, oppositional-defiant part of me chafes at the idea of many of these restrictions but I don't have a rational arguement to oppose any of them.

"requiring full background checks for all transfers, sales, private sales, gifts, inheritances."

also be applied to Law Enforcement officers firearms, both on duty weapons and personal?

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #203)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 05:00 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

204. Maybe. What do you think?

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #204)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 08:15 PM

oneshooter (5,956 posts)

211. They are only citizens, just like the rest of us.

There should be no difference made.
Whats good for the goose and all that.

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #211)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 08:22 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

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Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:57 PM

farminator3000 (2,112 posts)

155. all great ideas, the GPS thing would be the hardest/most expensive

cars have gps and lock and licensing, etc.

guns are more dangerous than cars. a no-brainer, really

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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #155)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:42 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

The gun will have to have a rechargable battery and be put in the charger from time to time. Considering the small size of the battery and the fact that it will have to move a mechanical part, I doubt the battery life will be more than a few hours.

You will need a far better battery to fit into a handgun for that to work.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:42 AM

ralfy (11 posts)

167. Well Said

Good ideas. This is a good compromise between gun bans and using firearms without being accountable for their use.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:23 PM

jody (26,624 posts)

170. What laws do you support that protect an individual's inalienable right to self-defense against

criminals that also enforce society's alienable right to defend groups against mass-murderers?

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Response to jody (Reply #170)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:32 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

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Response to Ashgrey77 (Reply #205)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 06:39 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

207. Care to explain why not?

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Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:28 PM

Glassunion (5,056 posts)

171. My only question is the technology

What happens in 3 months after the technology is implemented, Anonymous posts a hack and criminals can disable any police officer's gun with an iPhone app?

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #171)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:45 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

174. How about on duty cops are not part of this system.

There will always be those who would attempt to thwart any security system, but breaking into a system like this would come with a heavy price. Not the price your average hacker is prepared to pay. Messing with public safety is terrorism.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #174)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 02:37 PM

Glassunion (5,056 posts)

175. Fair enough.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #174)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 02:57 PM

GreenStormCloud (10,352 posts)

176. Anonymous means anonymous.

What makes you think that you will know who made the hack? Certainly it would not be "your average hacker". All it needs if ONE extremely skilled hacker. What about security guards guns?

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Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 06:22 PM

SEMOVoter (198 posts)

183. Bearing Arms doesn't exclusively mean guns.

We could ban all guns and not infringe on the right to bear arms.

What is being proposed is a protection to own guns. Not the same thing.

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Response to SEMOVoter (Reply #183)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 02:17 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

189. I agree 100 per cent

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Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 01:34 PM

samsingh (10,393 posts)

201. my responses below - good suggestions btw

1. All semi-automatics, handguns and long guns, must be fitted with biometric safeties and have GPS chips embedded.
WE SHOULD INSIST ON THIS. REFLECT IT IN THE PRICE OF THE WEAPONS AND AMMUNITION.

2. Local authority has overriding power to declare gun-free zones.
ABSOLUTELY.

3. All owners of semi-autos should pass psych evaluation, with periodic reviews.
YES

4. Background checks should be limited to history of violence or mental instability.
AND CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES

5. Owners of revolvers, shotguns and bolt action rifles would only be subject to background checks.
OK

6. No carry without special certification and carry weapon must have GPS chip.
DEFINITELY

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Response to samsingh (Reply #201)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 02:09 PM

Starboard Tack (8,014 posts)

202. Thanks.

In terms of number 4, I have a problem with the inclusion of "criminal activities". It is too broad brush. The whole point about guns is their propensity to violence when used by violent people. Criminal activity is not usually violent. In many states it includes recreational drug use. People pass bad checks, shoplift, embezzle, commit bigamy, commit all kinds of non-violent criminal acts, while many truly violent individuals, such as spousal abusers, never see a courtroom.

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216 replies	Author	Time	Post
OK, here are some suggestions without impeding 2A rights. (Original post)	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	OP
Number 2 could be considered a violation or an infringement...	a geek named Bob	Dec 2012	#1
Could be. I think it should be tested.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#4
okay	a geek named Bob	Dec 2012	#5
Stop it. You are asking him to actually THINK about what he says...	cleanhippie	Dec 2012	#39
good point...	a geek named Bob	Dec 2012	#40
You're a geek Bob. Why don't you design it.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#112
great... another thing ot add to the job stack...	a geek named Bob	Dec 2012	#125
I had someone say that it was a violation of 2nd amendment rights	rbixby	Dec 2012	#156
I don't see a problem there... n/t	a geek named Bob	Dec 2012	#157
if its not a flintlock musket or pistol you have no right to have one, as we know	msongs	Dec 2012	#2
Yep, and the 1st amendment only applies to newspapers, books, and soapboxes - not the internet,	kelly1mm	Dec 2012	#9
The Internet, CDs, DVDs, films and TV are all regulated.	JoePhilly	Dec 2012	#78
it is?	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#83
well...	a geek named Bob	Dec 2012	#126
And the Pirate Bay is just a figment of someone's imagination	ProgressiveProfessor	Dec 2012	#193
Not bad, let me pick at it a bit:	NYC_SKP	Dec 2012	#3
Thanks	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#11
I think it's a thoughtful approach.	NYC_SKP	Dec 2012	#15
my thoughts	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#6
thank you for stating this so much better than I did below. but, this mental stuff has to be careful	Tuesday Afternoon	Dec 2012	#13
Suggestion	atreides1	Dec 2012	#7
Number 2 is unconstitutional	hack89	Dec 2012	#8
microchips. how sci-fi of you. define mental instability. GPS chip? kiss my ass.	Tuesday Afternoon	Dec 2012	#10
GPS chips are part of life now, like it or not	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#16
you do realize that most pros get in the field to try and understand their own neuroses/psychoses?	Tuesday Afternoon	Dec 2012	#19
This can't agree with this post more.....	LeftofU	Dec 2012	#24
No, a lot less gun violence. Think about it.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#46
There isn't a lot of gun violence to begin with. 300 million people, 100 million guns	Ashgrey77	Dec 2012	#206
Tell that to the families of the 30,000+ who lose their lives every year.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#208
Death is death, nice try at deflecting that fact. n/t	Ashgrey77	Dec 2012	#215
So what? We're here to talk about gun violence.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#216
I agree with all you say except vioalation of HIPAA	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#45
"....we risk losing our rights."	Tuesday Afternoon	Dec 2012	#82
This entire thread is about not losing our rights.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#85
This message was self-deleted by its author	Tuesday Afternoon	Dec 2012	#89
My whole point to you was they wouldn't have been stolen with this technology	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#91
This message was self-deleted by its author	Tuesday Afternoon	Dec 2012	#93
How well did they work in the Mexican gun thing?	ProgressiveProfessor	Dec 2012	#26
Try to be positive here please.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#47
All the optimism in the world will not trump the physics	ProgressiveProfessor	Dec 2012	#80
Quit being a naysayer. We have the technology.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#86
As a geek with some RF background, no we don't	ProgressiveProfessor	Dec 2012	#97
Care to tell us how we don't or do you want to figure out how we do?	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#98
The first problem is RF propagation through metal	ProgressiveProfessor	Dec 2012	#149
Of course it isn't the best solution	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#152
Because you are trying to solve problems in society with a less than adequate	ProgressiveProfessor	Dec 2012	#190
The underlying problem is easy access to firearms, period.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#191
Not true	ProgressiveProfessor	Dec 2012	#192
Obviously, that easy access needs to be stopped.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#195
Access used to be much easier and we did not have these problems	ProgressiveProfessor	Dec 2012	#197
I think you are wrong.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#198
relative to the population	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#199
Ive seen many post about GPS, I find it kind of funny.	Travis_0004	Dec 2012	#109
And if it won't function without being charged?	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#110
You might want to check this out	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#111
And what do you do when the battery dies (or is removed)	Travis_0004	Dec 2012	#142
I do nothing and neither does the gun.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#144
Only if its a phaser	ProgressiveProfessor	Dec 2012	#194
Not my problem. The manufacturer would have to figure that out.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#196
You haven't provided any solutions.	Clames	Dec 2012	#200
Right Mr. Negativity, except it will be you who loses his guns, not me.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#209
what you think is a solution is really	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#210
Are you saying a minority want safer communities?	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#212
I'm saying the minority is motivated by	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#214
That is a good step in the right direction but would it be expensive to implement?	JDPriestly	Dec 2012	#12
Good questions	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#48
A couple of technical points	ProgressiveProfessor	Dec 2012	#14
Yup, once again technical ignorance sinks another "reasonable" proposal.	Clames	Dec 2012	#22
The antenna is even harder.	ProgressiveProfessor	Dec 2012	#23
they bought cheap batteries from Radio Shack	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#25
Check your cellphone and learn about tethering.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#57
Still requires a transceiver.	Clames	Dec 2012	#64
Tsk, tsk! Such negativity.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#67
Sorry you find facts so troubling...	Clames	Dec 2012	#104
And your solutions are what precisely? Putting down good ideas?	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#108
I don't advocate any of these measure.	Clames	Dec 2012	#129
or he has investments	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#131
So, you've got nothing. No surprise there.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#133
Nothing that would make you happy.	Clames	Dec 2012	#134
It's only a good idea...	bobclark86	Dec 2012	#130
Please explain what would not work	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#136
Biometric sensors are getting better by the day	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#52
You are overestimating the state of the art with biometrics	ProgressiveProfessor	Dec 2012	#79
Wireless power is already here.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#90
Its not in general use and the EMI issues remain unaddressed	ProgressiveProfessor	Dec 2012	#96
Not bad...however	RegieRocker	Dec 2012	#17
Screw the hunters.	Remmah2	Dec 2012	#20
Screw you	RegieRocker	Dec 2012	#21
Only as long as law enforcement agencies agree to the same conditions in reference to the technology	Remmah2	Dec 2012	#18
Agreed. Make the penalties for hacking unpalatable.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#58
Ban high cap flash drives!	Remmah2	Dec 2012	#135
The GPS chips	Justin_Beach	Dec 2012	#27
Unless the chip has been disabled or the battery in it has died.	Common Sense Party	Dec 2012	#29
It's already borderline possible	Justin_Beach	Dec 2012	#32
Good post thanks. We need more positive voices here.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#60
Nothing is going to work every time, but if it works sometimes it could save lives	Bjorn Against	Dec 2012	#114
RFID chips	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#31
See above n/t	Justin_Beach	Dec 2012	#33
I'll have to think about some of those...the tracking thing sounds too Patriot Act to me.	Common Sense Party	Dec 2012	#28
Thanks for the feedback. Lots of details to be ironed out.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#62
Sorry, gotta disagree on most of this	tortoise1956	Dec 2012	#30
OK let me respond	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#65
These coudl work	tortoise1956	Dec 2012	#72
I agree that no measure will completely fix the problem.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#76
In reply...	Spryguy	Dec 2012	#123
Do you smoke pot?	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#124
Which of these	AlexSatan	Dec 2012	#34
None of them.	jeepnstein	Dec 2012	#36
These	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#70
But it is pretty likely	AlexSatan	Dec 2012	#71
Obviously a detail that would have to be worked out.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#77
Once you prove that the technology will never fail	hack89	Dec 2012	#35
Thoughts	Atypical Liberal	Dec 2012	#37
Excellent points! I think we are now on the same page.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#75
I don't know about transmitting.	Atypical Liberal	Dec 2012	#88
Great stuff. I love it when people start to really think.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#95
No.	GreenStormCloud	Dec 2012	#38
I guess your cup is always half empty. What a shame.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#81
Notice How the Gun Clutching Crowd Will Call You Stupid After	fightthegoodfightnow	Dec 2012	#41
to avoid the "it's already being done"	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#42
Exhibit A	fightthegoodfightnow	Dec 2012	#43
meanwhile back in reality	fightthegoodfightnow	Dec 2012	#44
ST posted suggestions	tortoise1956	Dec 2012	#49
Exhibit B	fightthegoodfightnow	Dec 2012	#50
And still no constructive input	tortoise1956	Dec 2012	#51
Correct	fightthegoodfightnow	Dec 2012	#55
Fair enough	tortoise1956	Dec 2012	#59
Thank You	fightthegoodfightnow	Dec 2012	#69
Work with me	tortoise1956	Dec 2012	#73
Not Sure I Agree	fightthegoodfightnow	Dec 2012	#143
Sorry, last night was a little hectic. Didn't get around to answering	tortoise1956	Dec 2012	#164
I don't disagree with a thing you say.	fightthegoodfightnow	Dec 2012	#165
Not all. Quite a few are very positive. I'm really encouraged by the response.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#101
Replace CCW with OPEN Carry	HockeyMom	Dec 2012	#53
I'm with you on that.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#54
I live in Florida which now has a proposal	HockeyMom	Dec 2012	#56
why did Florida ban OC?	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#61
Let's try to stay on subject GE. We're getting good feedback here.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#63
you said Floridians banned it because	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#68
It's not embarrassment, it's because it's none of your fucking business that I'm carrying	Kennah	Dec 2012	#148
Well, guess what? Public safety trumps that kind of an attitude.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#153
so public safety trumps	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#154
No. I think you know what I'm talking about.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#158
partly devil's advocate,	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#160
Well, I don't support the Patriot Act or Stop and Frisk.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#161
OK,	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#162
Well, there is more than one way to look at that.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#163
This is an argument I have often with open carriers. I'm safer being anonymous.	Kennah	Dec 2012	#166
I'm wrapping my head around this idea...	tortoise1956	Dec 2012	#66
I like this idea the best so far.	Tuesday Afternoon	Dec 2012	#92
It appears the GPS data would be available to LEO...	Eleanors38	Dec 2012	#74
Correct. It would be a defacto registration system for certain types of weapons.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#84
how would it do that?	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#87
Of course.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#94
many of those are businesses decided by those businesses	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#100
Details to be worked out.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#103
Would this be applied to 10s of millions of semi-auto hand guns as well?	Eleanors38	Dec 2012	#150
Of course. Not much point otherwise is there?	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#151
Then what would be the fate of revolvers?	Eleanors38	Dec 2012	#168
Nothing	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#169
Criminals would love your GPS idea.	GreenStormCloud	Dec 2012	#99
exactly what I was thinking about the GPS idea	Dog Gone at Penigma	Dec 2012	#102
Not bad ideas!	roninjedi	Dec 2012	#105
Why do you find the GPS tracking idea intrusive?	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#113
so, would I have control over the tracking?	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#115
That's something that needs to be discussed.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#118
as long as the you remember to leave your gun home	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#120
Excellent questions	roninjedi	Dec 2012	#122
Firstly, I think we are a long way from anyone pounding on doors.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#146
point of living in a society?	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#147
Would all of these proposals	oneshooter	Dec 2012	#203
Maybe. What do you think?	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#204
They are only citizens, just like the rest of us.	oneshooter	Dec 2012	#211
I'm OK with that.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#213
most of it is good	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#107
The app would only be available to registered users.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#106
May I add to your list	customerserviceguy	Dec 2012	#116
I doubt anyone knew	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#117
I thought about adding that	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#119
first manufacture that does it	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#121
How are you going to make the GPS chip work again?	AtheistCrusader	Dec 2012	#127
if theives defeat your bank vault and alarm,	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#128
That doesn't seem terribly reasonable.	AtheistCrusader	Dec 2012	#132
I'm not following you?	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#137
Only works when the gun is on the move...	AtheistCrusader	Dec 2012	#138
Technology exists. Needs to be developed and fine tuned.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#139
No thanks on being the beta tester.	jeepnstein	Dec 2012	#140
Well, we have to choose as a society which direction we want to take.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#145
Someday, quite likely.	AtheistCrusader	Dec 2012	#141
all great ideas, the GPS thing would be the hardest/most expensive	farminator3000	Dec 2012	#155
Thanks for the positive input and welcome to DU and the Gungeon.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#159
Cars are a lot bigger.	GreenStormCloud	Dec 2012	#177
you should google things sometime, it's fun!	farminator3000	Dec 2012	#178
I saw that on the local TV news	gejohnston	Dec 2012	#179
GPS and Smart Chips are not the same.	GreenStormCloud	Dec 2012	#180
no duh, what's your point?	farminator3000	Dec 2012	#181
You can't require something until the technology is actually available.	GreenStormCloud	Dec 2012	#184
how does two weeks sound? or go to ireland and try one	farminator3000	Dec 2012	#185
How long is the battery in the gun good for?	GreenStormCloud	Dec 2012	#186
couldn't tell you. Ireland, laddy!	farminator3000	Dec 2012	#187
Current battery technology will not build one that lasts long.	GreenStormCloud	Dec 2012	#188
Well Said	ralfy	Dec 2012	#167
What laws do you support that protect an individual's inalienable right to self-defense against	jody	Dec 2012	#170
Laws? Self defense is a natural right. Doesn't require laws.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#172
Doesn't matter. Laws will be passed to prevent another Sandy Hook Tragedy. We who support RKBA must	jody	Dec 2012	#173
I'm trying to find a viable solution to save lives.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#182
It's not viable though. And you know that. n/t	Ashgrey77	Dec 2012	#205
Care to explain why not?	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#207
My only question is the technology	Glassunion	Dec 2012	#171
How about on duty cops are not part of this system.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#174
Fair enough.	Glassunion	Dec 2012	#175
Anonymous means anonymous.	GreenStormCloud	Dec 2012	#176
Bearing Arms doesn't exclusively mean guns.	SEMOVoter	Dec 2012	#183
I agree 100 per cent	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#189
my responses below - good suggestions btw	samsingh	Dec 2012	#201
Thanks.	Starboard Tack	Dec 2012	#202