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Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:48 AM

The President of the United States of America has a message for you...

Iíve been reflecting on this the last few days, and if weíre honest with ourselves, the answerís no. Weíre not doing enough. And we will have to change. Since Iíve been president, this is the fourth time we have come together to comfort a grieving community torn apart by mass shootings, fourth time weíve hugged survivors, the fourth time weíve consoled the families of victims.

And in between, there have been an endless series of deadly shootings across the country, almost daily reports of victims, many of them children, in small towns and in big cities all across America, victims whose -- much of the time their only fault was being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

We canít tolerate this anymore. These tragedies must end. And to end them, we must change.

We will be told that the causes of such violence are complex, and that is true. No single law, no set of laws can eliminate evil from the world or prevent every senseless act of violence in our society, but that canít be an excuse for inaction. Surely we can do better than this.

If thereís even one step we can take to save another child or another parent or another town from the grief thatís visited Tucson and Aurora and Oak Creek and Newtown and communities from Columbine to Blacksburg before that, then surely we have an obligation to try.

In the coming weeks, Iíll use whatever power this office holds to engage my fellow citizens, from law enforcement, to mental health professionals, to parents and educators, in an effort aimed at preventing more tragedies like this, because what choice do we have? We canít accept events like this as routine.

Are we really prepared to say that weíre powerless in the face of such carnage, that the politics are too hard?

Are we prepared to say that such violence visited on our children year after year after year is somehow the price of our freedom?

Full Transcript: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/president-obamas-speech-at-prayer-vigil-for-newtown-shooting-victims-full-transcript/2012/12/16/f764bf8a-47dd-11e2-ad54-580638ede391_story_1.html


Are you with the President or against the President in his desire for progressive gun control reform?

56 replies, 4117 views

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Reply The President of the United States of America has a message for you... (Original post)
ellisonz Dec 2012 OP
gejohnston Dec 2012 #1
ellisonz Dec 2012 #2
gejohnston Dec 2012 #3
ellisonz Dec 2012 #4
ManiacJoe Dec 2012 #6
ellisonz Dec 2012 #9
AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #11
ellisonz Dec 2012 #12
AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #15
ellisonz Dec 2012 #18
AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #19
ellisonz Dec 2012 #21
AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #23
gejohnston Dec 2012 #25
ManiacJoe Dec 2012 #13
ellisonz Dec 2012 #14
bobclark86 Dec 2012 #16
pipoman Dec 2012 #31
ellisonz Dec 2012 #41
pipoman Dec 2012 #45
holdencaufield Dec 2012 #38
ellisonz Dec 2012 #40
holdencaufield Dec 2012 #42
rDigital Dec 2012 #5
ellisonz Dec 2012 #7
ManiacJoe Dec 2012 #8
AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #10
Azathoth Dec 2012 #17
ellisonz Dec 2012 #27
Azathoth Dec 2012 #33
ellisonz Dec 2012 #34
Azathoth Dec 2012 #36
ellisonz Dec 2012 #39
Azathoth Dec 2012 #44
billh58 Dec 2012 #53
gejohnston Dec 2012 #54
Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #55
Clames Dec 2012 #20
ellisonz Dec 2012 #22
Clames Dec 2012 #24
ellisonz Dec 2012 #26
Clames Dec 2012 #28
ellisonz Dec 2012 #29
Clames Dec 2012 #32
Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #56
pipoman Dec 2012 #35
ellisonz Dec 2012 #37
Clames Dec 2012 #43
Remmah2 Dec 2012 #50
S_B_Jackson Dec 2012 #30
ileus Dec 2012 #46
Callisto32 Dec 2012 #47
Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #48
jeepnstein Dec 2012 #49
krispos42 Dec 2012 #51
krispos42 Dec 2012 #52

Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:52 AM

1. You might be reading more into it than what he said

but let's see his ideas first.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:54 AM

2. And when that is the progressive gun control reform...

...as he's called for in the past - will you support or oppose the efforts of President Obama?

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:04 AM

3. if it is a good idea,

other than that let's see. Your say so doesn't make it progressive. One could argue that a AWB is regressive because it would be returning to something past.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:05 AM

4. So the President has no intention of carrying out his promise to do everything in his power...

...to end this horrible gun violence?

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:12 AM

6. Hopefully he has every intention of carrying out his promise.

However, his ideas on how to achieve that may differ from your ideas.

I agree that folks are currently reading way too much into that speech that was not actually said.

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:16 AM

9. I think he was pretty clear...

I'll take any new gun control measures that put a stop to the excesses of our diseased gun culture in this country.

Will you support or oppose the President if he puts forth (as expected) progressive gun control legislation?

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:19 AM

11. Support as long as

it's both constitutional, and makes some sort of goddamn sense. (1994 AWB as an example of something that did NOT make sense)

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:23 AM

12. SCOTUS has left a mighty big hoop through which to pass gun control...

(2) Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Courtís opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Millerís holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those ďin common use at the timeĒ finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.

Heller v. DC


So you would support an improved upon AWB?

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:30 AM

15. If it was constitutional and made sense, yes.

Rather than open ended questions, why not start a thread on specifics that you would like to see Congress take up? Or perhaps one thread per item, so as to keep the chatter down.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:54 AM

18. Let's say it brings federal legislation up to California's level...

...minus the restriction on CCW. What say you then?

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:55 AM

19. I would say no.

Because the bullet tool/fixed mag restriction is silly.

I'm ok with the registration. Not ok with the fees. Do it like the NFA registry. A one time fee.
Otherwise ok on the rest of it.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:57 AM

21. So you're drawing the line at having a detachable magazine for your semi-automatic rifle?

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:02 AM

23. Yeah.

You can limit size/production of new ones. My rifles are not designed to have fixed mags. So I would object to that. If you want to limit them to 10 or 20 rounds (designed for 30, but whatever), that's fine.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:05 AM

25. IIRC,

California law views every Olympic pistol team as using "assault weapons" because of magazine location. I wouldn't call that "up to" anything.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:26 AM

13. Absolutely, I would support him, but...

you and I probably don't agree on the unstated definition of "progressive gun control legislation".

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:28 AM

14. Probably because your definition...

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:33 AM

16. Depends

on what it is. Sorry, I like to read bills before I decide whether to support them or not. I'm still pissed off over lack of single-payer health care and the PATRIOT Act.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:19 AM

31. Are you sure we are reading the same excerpt?

I'm not seeing any of the stuff you are talking about.

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Response to pipoman (Reply #31)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:34 AM

41. Why would you expect specifics in a memorial oration?

Moreover, the President clearly states that they are going to take a hard look at this and come up with the specifics. You don't really think President Obama is going to put something up the NRA and their sycophants are going to love?

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #41)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:43 AM

45. Except you are claiming specifics..

It's been a long time since any gun legislation has been passed federally which was not backed by the NRA.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:30 AM

38. Are you genuniely unaware that the POTUS doesn't pass laws?

 

Did you nod off in Civics class that day?

What do you calculate the odds of getting any gun control through the current congress?

HINT: You're going to need a science geek calculator

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #38)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:32 AM

40. That's out of right-field.

So you're supporting the obstructionist efforts of the Republicans?

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #40)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:36 AM

42. The expression is ...

 

... "Out of LEFT field". You didn't play outdoors a lot when you were a kid, did you?


Here's a comprehensive explanation on how laws are passed in the US

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:11 AM

5. I noticed that he didn't say the words "gun" or "firearm" even once. Interesting. nt

 

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Response to rDigital (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:14 AM

7. Seriously? "mass shootings" "deadly shootings"

Maybe he's talking about cars, knives, and baseball bats

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Response to rDigital (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:14 AM

8. Smart speech writers.

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:18 AM

10. With. I'll leave you to imagine what 'progressive' means in this context.

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:52 AM

17. And if the President doesn't propose effectively rolling back the 2nd Amendment

Will you be with the President, or will he become just another murder-enabling gun nut with blood on his hands?

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Response to Azathoth (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:08 AM

27. So you're opposed to the President on this issue?

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #27)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:21 AM

33. lol, so far you seem to be the only one opposed to the President

In fact, you're so far out of step with him that you seem to feel the need to insert words into his mouth.

Now let's be straight up: I don't have any problem with what he said in his speech. But he didn't actually propose anything in his speech either. So, now that I've answered your question, answer mine. If the President does not propose vast new gun control measures, will you be with him, or will he just be another gun nut?

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Response to Azathoth (Reply #33)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:23 AM

34. You didn't answer my question so I'm not answering your tantrum...

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #34)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:28 AM

36. lol, you've got to be a little more clever if you want to troll

I thought you were at least going to try

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Response to Azathoth (Reply #36)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:30 AM

39. Re-read your post #17.

Thank you.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #39)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:38 AM

44. And...what? You're upset that I repeated stuff from GD?

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Response to Azathoth (Reply #44)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:39 AM

53. Gungeoneers excel at circular

arguments because they have received so much indoctrination from the NRA. You know very well the answer to your question: no, none of us are expecting a repeal of the 2nd Amendment, nor are we calling for one.

You, on the other hand, are scared that your precious "it's all about me" rights may be curtailed to something more reasonable than arming every fucking person on the planet.

It's time to let the grownups decide who gets to play with which toys, and where. Throw all the tantrums you want, but you are being sent to your room. And, too bad about AtypicalLiberal, but he's been given a time out.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #53)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:10 PM

54. for example?

Grownups don't make shrill and irrational rants, and use every imaginable logical fallacy pretending to be rational. That is the problem with the gun control movement.

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Response to Azathoth (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:32 PM

55. He's like that: "Are you now, or have you ever been a member..."

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:56 AM

20. Your small tent is losing stakes every time you post here.

 

Black and white thinking is a sad habit to get into and a tough one to kick...

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Response to Clames (Reply #20)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:58 AM

22. And what tent do you belong to?

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:03 AM

24. The big tent. The part surrounding yours but doesn't have barbed wire and an application fee. n/t

 

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Response to Clames (Reply #24)


Response to ellisonz (Reply #26)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:14 AM

28. Poor you...

 

...I forgot subtlety doesn't work with you. Let me try again. Your small, shrinking tent is what is surrounded with barbed wire and requires an application fee. Seems it also requires a purity test that requires a perfect score by your measure. Little tents suck...



Filling out the 4473 is free BTW...

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Response to Clames (Reply #28)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:17 AM

29. Funny how you've been hiding in the Gungeon...

...afraid to charge into that gap with your buddies in GD?

You really can't help yourself Clams

I'm going to put you on ignore now because you're really just enjoying this too much. Enjoy your stay at DU.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #29)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:20 AM

32. I've posted in GD, LBN, and Meta these last few weeks.

 

You really can't keep up but then you do spend most of your time whining in Meta... Must be your new hobby.

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Response to Clames (Reply #28)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:36 PM

56. Noticed that as well. Ironic.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #26)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:24 AM

35. Just can't be civil can ya?

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Response to pipoman (Reply #35)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:29 AM

37. I lost my restraint with that one...

...after about the 10th time he tried to launch a personal attack against me. I'm actually rather convinced 50% of the reason he's here is to attack me - so I've had it and he's now on ignore. That's the humane thing to do at this point. I think he came here to stalk iverglas and is now just stalking me...

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #37)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:38 AM

43. Good for you kid.

 

You've been a lousy copycat of iverglas. The harder you have tried the worse you have gotten. Your ego is ten times what hers was and that's saying something. Civility is something you need to get reacquainted with. I'm sure it will be a long and arduous process too.

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Response to Clames (Reply #24)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:44 AM

50. Be nice.

 

He's been a little tense lately..............................

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:18 AM

30. Until I see what his reform proposals are specifically

I can't say one way or the other. This nebulous "we must do something" impulse must always be curbed with a determination that it is important that the CORRECT something is done. Engaging in meaningless, ineffective mummery is worse than useless.

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:28 AM

46. I've been progressive on firearm rights for years.

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:58 AM

47. That was bullshit when Bush said it too.

IOW: False dichotomy.

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:34 AM

48. It will depend on the nature of the proposed gun control.

 

I am prepared to make some concessions on firearm ownership.

I don't know how far I am prepared to go.

Something needs to be done to make sure that we more fully vet people who are allowed to own firearms.

And firearms need to be secured so that people who have not been vetted can't just take them on a whim.

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:41 AM

49. I'm really curious about how he'll proceed.

As it stands now lots of people are running around in hysteria wanting to try the failed policies of the past. Let's look at what really makes these school shooters tick and then hit the problem head-on. There's a lot more to it than just taking away everyone's Constitutional Rights in some reactionary move. Since Obama is anything but a reactionary I'm going to just play it cool and see where he goes with it.

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:34 PM

51. Locking

Absent proposals for gun laws and other gun-control measures, and considering this is current and ongoing news, GD or Politics 2012 would be a better fit for this post.

Regards,
Krispos42, Group Host

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:47 PM

52. Unlocking, and kick n/t

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