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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:37 PM

Do we have a gun crisis?

Gun related murders are down, but gun shooting sprees are up. Normally, you would think there would be a correlative decrease, but this very unusual.

While politicians argue over the manufactured Fiscal cliff crisis (notice that no one is talking about this anymore) we have a real gun crisis in the United States. If estimates are correct that there are 300+ million guns floating around what are the practical solutions to enforcing current regulations on the books or do we need more? Do we need to educate the populace more before they are allowed to own a weapon?

13 replies, 1655 views

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Arrow 13 replies Author Time Post
Reply Do we have a gun crisis? (Original post)
Harmony Blue Dec 2012 OP
gejohnston Dec 2012 #1
spin Dec 2012 #9
DanTex Dec 2012 #2
friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #3
DanTex Dec 2012 #4
gejohnston Dec 2012 #6
DanTex Dec 2012 #7
krispos42 Dec 2012 #8
Clames Dec 2012 #10
DanTex Dec 2012 #11
krispos42 Dec 2012 #13
Tumbulu Dec 2012 #5
Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #12

Response to Harmony Blue (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:23 PM

1. we have a social crisis

China is experiencing the same thing with people with knives.

Prof. Joshua Miller, chair of Social Welfare Policy at Smith College, attributed the attacks to stress caused by "rapid social change, mass migrations, increasing disparities in wealth and weakening of traditions." Some sociologists believe some of these attacks may due to the PRC government's failure to diagnose and treat mental illness. The perpetrators may feel victimized by stress due to the rapid social changes in China during the last 10 years caused by the privatization and decreased social security of China's reform and opening period. During this time, more and more migrant workers from rural areas have moved to cities such as Shanghai to find jobs. However because they do not have social security (because of the hukou system), many of them do not have health insurance. Because of the financial crisis of 20072010, some have lost their jobs, which is stigmatized in China, and have had to return to their native villages jobless and unemployed. The choice of schools for most of the attacks means they could be copycat crimes.
I think there are a few parallels here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_%282010%E2%80%932011%29
Some of it is the infotainment industry
&list=HL1355595172&index=3

After a mass shooting in The Netherlands, a leading German sociologist (the name escapes me at the moment) basically said stricter gun laws don't help because it distracts from the real issues, like access to mental health, the stigma of seeking help, social isolation etc. That isn't to say our gun laws are ideal, but I'm kind of reminded of the knee jerk reaction to Toronto's July shoot out at a basketball game between a couple of gangsters that killed a couple of bystanders. Although the guns were not legally owned, registered, and had illegal magazines, the Toronto mayor's solution was to confiscate registered handguns from licensed owners. That maybe understandable or opportunistic, but it would be like putting a leg cast on someone with a sucking chest wound.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:48 AM

9. Best reply so far. Thanks. (n/t)

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Response to Harmony Blue (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:37 PM

2. Yes, we have a gun crisis.

The fact that gun related murders are down doesn't mean that they are low. They are still much higher than any other first world country.

Also, even though gun murders are down, gun assaults are up. Part of this discrepancy is due to improvements in emergency medicine -- you are more likely to survive a gunshot wound than a decade ago.

Finally, the gun crisis is not an overall violent crime crisis. Rates of violent crime have been dropping, and are not higher than the rest of the world. The problem is, there are a lot more guns and gun crimes in the US, and gun crimes are much more deadly than non-gun crimes.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:53 PM

3. Gun assaults are *not* up- check out the stats on aggravated assaults in the US.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/ucr

If there are more gun assaults with the victims surviving, wouldn't there then be an increase in
aggravated assaults (which is what feloniously but non-fatally shooting someone would be)?

Finally, the gun crisis is not an overall violent crime crisis. Rates of violent crime have been dropping, and are not higher than the rest of the world. The problem is, there are a lot more guns and gun crimes in the US, and gun crimes are much more deadly than non-gun crimes.


Yes, there are a lot of guns and gun crime in the US-but that's because there are 300+ million people
here, third largest population on the planet. The rate of gun crime is also decreasing-
see link above.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:39 PM

4. LOL. You do realize not all aggravated assaults involve guns, right?

Sometimes I forget just how dumb gun nuts can be. It's really staggering. Try checking gun assaults, not aggravated assaults, and get back to me.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:25 PM

6. when did they go up?

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:32 PM

7. Over the last decade...

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Response to DanTex (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:31 AM

8. Source?

Doesn't look like a DoJ graph.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:07 AM

10. That's because it isn't.

 

In fact that type of graph doesn't show up anywhere in WISQARS and nothing turns up querying the title of that graph on the CDC's website.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:45 AM

11. Data from the CDC.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:15 AM

13. Okay, thanks n/t

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Response to DanTex (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:19 PM

5. Good post

agree!

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Response to Harmony Blue (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:42 AM

12. No. We are in an era of the CelebroPunk which

Gives a crude legitimacy to mass murder. These punks couldn't pull off flash fame on American Idol, on the athletic Field, in the corner bar, or with some hot chick; and they are desperate for ANY noteriety, even if it is from the grave. And the full-time infomercial surrounding us will give obligingly give it out.

This Conn. murderer went after small kids, probably because their optimism, innocence and general happiness was (in his eyes) a commentary on his failings, and hence threat. Perhaps motivated less by celebrity and more by revenge.

This kind of stuff will happen again, and no amount of prohibitionism will thwart it.

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