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Wed Dec 12, 2012, 02:46 PM

Guns-to-Work Laws Spread in U.S. as Business Fights NRA

By Margaret Newkirk - Dec 12, 2012

Republican-dominated legislatures in at least four states are planning to consider allowing employees to bring guns to work, turning two of the party’s traditional constituencies against each other: gun-rights supporters and businesses.

The measures, backed by the National Rifle Association, would allow workers in Alabama, Tennessee, South Carolina and Pennsylvania to keep the weapons locked and hidden in their cars in employee parking areas. Seventeen states have approved similar measures since 2003, according to a tally by the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence in San Francisco.

The laws extend gun rights onto property controlled by private employers, prompting opposition from companies such as FedEx Corp. (FDX) and Volkswagen AG. (VOW) The proposals are creating a dilemma for Republicans, said Robert Spitzer, chairman of the political science department at the State University of New York at Cortland.

“The gun rights movement is now colliding against traditional business interests,” Spitzer said. “It’s a direct clash between a values issue and an economic one and both of these competing forces are particularly strong within the Republican Party.”

MORE...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/print/2012-12-12/guns-to-work-laws-spread-in-u-s-as-business-fights-group.html

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Reply Guns-to-Work Laws Spread in U.S. as Business Fights NRA (Original post)
Purveyor Dec 2012 OP
armueller2001 Dec 2012 #1
spin Dec 2012 #14
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #27
gejohnston Dec 2012 #28
GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #29
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #32
gejohnston Dec 2012 #33
GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #34
petronius Dec 2012 #2
Purveyor Dec 2012 #3
petronius Dec 2012 #7
S_B_Jackson Dec 2012 #18
apocalypsehow Dec 2012 #4
Glaug-Eldare Dec 2012 #5
apocalypsehow Dec 2012 #10
Glaug-Eldare Dec 2012 #15
Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #16
X_Digger Dec 2012 #24
spin Dec 2012 #22
Glaug-Eldare Dec 2012 #23
spin Dec 2012 #25
YllwFvr Dec 2012 #20
Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #21
slackmaster Dec 2012 #6
Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #8
jbgood1977 Dec 2012 #19
DonP Dec 2012 #9
slackmaster Dec 2012 #11
DonP Dec 2012 #12
Purveyor Dec 2012 #13
NewMoonTherian Dec 2012 #17
MotherPetrie Dec 2012 #26
Travis_0004 Dec 2012 #30
slackmaster Dec 2012 #31

Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 02:47 PM

1. Hasn't been a problem in Texas.

Don't really expect it to be a problem anywhere else.

EHMAGERD THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!11111!!

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Response to armueller2001 (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 06:53 PM

14. Hasn't been a problem in Florida either. (n/t)

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Response to spin (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 06:56 PM

27. Giving a party where nobody went

Husband works in Florida. Three CCW holders at this business, including my husband. The employers don't care, but they have NO TAKERS. Nobody brings their guns to work.

What is WRONG with thesepeople?????? Don't they know their RIGHTS??????? lol

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:02 PM

28. you are kind of missing the point

it is about individual vs the corporation.
We have to check too many of our BoR at the door as it is (talking 1st and 4th here). If it starts a domino effect of knocking down laws that allow drug testing, firing for using the word "union" and what you put on Facebook so much the better.

besides, why would they. My high school parking lots, student and employee, had a lot guns in gun racks during hunting season. When the season was over, not so much.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:11 PM

29. How does he know what is in their cars?

The article is not about guns on the person at work, but guns locked in an employee car parked in the company parking lot. A wise employee won't say anything about it, and a wise employer won't ask. You don't need a CCW to have a gun in your car.

Florida Statutes 790.25(5)
(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:46 PM

32. True

but when your coworkers won't go shooting with you because they don't own guns (or care), doesn't that tell you something?

He, and those other 2 people, don't carry despite the CCW because they are too afraid they will be stolen. So what is the point then? Get the permit because you CAN whereas you COULDN'T where you used to live. Is that a valid reason? Because you CAN?

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #32)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:01 PM

33. could be the waiting period

Florida has a three business day waiting period for handguns, which does not apply to CCW holders. In other words, I have to make two trips to the gun shop, your husband and the other two guys take it home the same day.
Because they can? Could have been. I took a CCW class just out of curiosity. Most of the students were former New Yorkers and New Jersey folk who had no clue. They would be no threat to public safety because they couldn't figure out how to load the house revolvers. Is "because I can" a valid reason? It's a free country, why not?

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #32)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:49 PM

34. How many co-workers?

What percentage of them has he asked?

Yes, in a free country, "because you can" is all the reason a person needs. After all, the reason people climb mountains is, "because it is there."

Yes, I keep a gun in my car all the time, as does my wife.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 03:35 PM

2. Property rights of employers need to be balanced against the property and privacy

rights of employees - workers don't abandon their rights when they accept a job and employers aren't granted unfettered access to or control over the contents of the property, pockets, purses or bodies of the workers.

If a company chooses to provide a parking area that's great, but the car remains the private property and space of the driver. No matter what item is in question, the contents of the vehicle is not the business of the employer - where the rubber hits the pavement seems to me a very rational division between the two spaces...

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Response to petronius (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 04:06 PM

3. That doesn't prevent one of being fired if firearms are prohibited and discovered in a 'at-will

employment' state such as my state of Michigan.

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Response to Purveyor (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:28 PM

7. I suppose that's true, absent a law like that described in the OP. If I had my

druthers, rather than a piecemeal approach like this law I'd like to see a broader examination of the limits on how far an employer can intrude into an employee's private live and property. Not just the contents of a vehicle, but drug tests, social media, health-related behavior (e.g. smoking) outside of work, etc.

And if I did have a firearm in my car at work - whether or not I had a protected right to do so - I'd make sure it was secure, invisible, and unknown to anyone in a position to cause me a hassle...

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Response to Purveyor (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:29 PM

18. How is the employer going to "discover" the firearm?

In a large number of cases, the employer doesn't own the building in which they are doing business, and don't own the land in which the employee's vehicle is parked. The employer in such a case can prohibit their employees from bringing a firearm onto company premises, but that simply means that they can control the areas that they are actually leasing/renting. They have no right or legal authority to enter an employee's vehicle without the employee's assent and in most cases they can't terminate and employee who refuses to allow their vehicle's interior to be searched. Their vehicle is their private property and subject to nearly the same legal protections as is their home.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 04:38 PM

4. Reminds me of that poster on DU2 (tombstoned there) who had this long back-n'-forth

in a sub-thread about the best way to insulate his assault rifle from water while he was taking a shower, and still be able to get at it in a second's notice, ready for bullet-spraying action. Any number of Gungeoneers - some of them still posting on DU3 - went into that sub-thread and gave him serious advice on just how to do that, using ponchos adapted for the purpose, rain-proof camping sheet covers cut and draped over the piece at just the right angles, use of water-tight plastic "go-to boxes," etc., etc.

One even chimed in that he'd had the same problem - was so in dread of some "goblin" or "bad guy" breaking in while he was showering that he just had to have his 12 gauge at his side at all times, including in the shower - and he'd come up with a novel solution: cut the arm off an over-sized rain slicker, seal the muzzle end of the garment shut with roofing expoy, leaving the breech end of the apparatus open for quick trigger access in the event of a Norman Bates incident.

When I posted about this recently on DU3, just as an aside, several of our "pro gun progressives"* insisted that the sub-thread was all satire, meant to mock us "anti's," and that not one poster in it was serious about the subject matter that was under discussion. Some even suggested that the poster himself was an "anti" posting as a Gunny in order to embarrass our poor, put-upon "pro gun progressives."*

That's all horseshit, of course: every single poster in that sub-thread was as serious as the day was long at the time, and several got quite irritated at the justified mocking of them by liberal and progressive DU'ers for it in that very thread.

In any event, is there anywhere the "RKBA" crowd doesn't think it has some kind of "right" to carry? Even private property? Day cares? Elementary schools? Hospitals? Simply unreal.


*( )

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Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:21 PM

5. There are lots of places I have no right to carry

Last edited Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:55 PM - Edit history (1)

(Not that I carry anywhere, considering our statute for disarming Blacks)

I have no right to carry a gun in a private residence if the owner objects to it. I have no right to carry a gun inside a business if the owner objects to it. I have no right to carry a gun in a secured government building, provided they are responsible for my safety. Basically, there are two categories of places I consider the right to carry to exist: Unsecured public spaces (inc. public property) and private property where carry is not prohibited by the owner.

I'm not thrilled at the idea of requiring businesses to allow gun possession on parking facilities that they own, but I suppose that's up to the voters. I could probably be persuaded either way.

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Response to Glaug-Eldare (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:57 PM

10. Regardless of all that, can we at least agree that trying to rig up ways to take a machine gun

into the shower is just a little bit out there? A bit...I don't know, paranoid? Or something like that?

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Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #10)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:48 PM

15. I can go along with that.

I haven't seen it so I won't judge its seriousness, but taking a gun into the shower is a bit much for me. Even if there was a specific death threat, it seems more practical to just keep a handgun with your pants when you wash up. Hopefully it was satire -- if not, I'd be a bit unnerved.

Insert some cookie-cutter rant about the terms "assault rifle," "assault weapon," machine gun, etc. It's been done to death, but I figure I gotta punch my ticket on this'n.

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Response to Glaug-Eldare (Reply #15)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:51 PM

16. since he won't provide the link - I am going w/ satire on the heavy side with a healthy dose

of sarcasm thrown in for good measure.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 05:26 PM

24. Of course it was, based on the cookie / gun / shower picture.

Leave it up to him to think it was serious. (Or intentionally misapprehend it as such to try to score cheap points- the only kind he seems to get recently.)

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Response to Glaug-Eldare (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:54 PM

22. What is your statute for disarming Blacks? (n/t)

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Response to spin (Reply #22)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 04:44 PM

23. The 14th Amendment made it more difficult,

so the GA hasn't been able to repeat their black-specific prohibitions of 1715 (prohibiting all blacks, slave and free, from carrying guns without a permission slip from their "master") or 1831 (requiring free blacks to obtain a carry permit, in response to the Nat Turner rebellion), so they've had to create "discretionary" laws or laws regarding "apprehended danger" that can be selectively enforced against blacks, such as the 1904 ban on carry except "as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger. The present may-issue permitting system was enacted in 1972 in response to racial fears and violence in 1968, and the 1988 economic ban on affordable handguns was analogous to Tennessee's 1879 law limiting handgun ownership to only the expensive models already owned in huge numbers by the Ku Klux Klan.

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Response to Glaug-Eldare (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 06:15 PM

25. That's exactly why I favor "shall issue" concealed carry. ...

as it stops such discrimination.

The NRA has pushed for "shall issue" based on the 1987 law passed in Florida. Oddly enough recently some uniformed individuals who support strong gun control has accused the NRA of being friends with the KKK. The KKK would obviously favor "may issue" CCW.

Is it possible that the organizations that wish for draconian gun control are actually racist and purposefully deceive their supporters? I suspect they would love to implement gun control laws such as exist in New York City where it is very difficult for anyone to get a license to carry unless they are rich or well connected.



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Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:44 AM

20. ive witnessed similar

But not on a forum. I saw the man in a shop talking about his mariner 12 guage and how its all stainless steel and all the components are made to resist corrosion.

He bought it for his shower.

Schools are restricted by law. I always carry into the hospital when im there.

Happy holidays.

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Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:44 PM

21. Find the link. I recall some of it. Hilarious! Thinking of ways right now.nt

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:28 PM

6. It's none of my employer's business what I keep out of sight in the sanctity of my locked vehicle

 

Even if it's parked in their lot.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:36 PM

8. +1 and furthermore:

I would think that Employers who understand how 2A works would also be
the kind of Employer that treats his employees fairly in other ways as well.

Although if that is not true in these cases, I hope someone educates me to that fact.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:15 AM

19. That about sums it up.

 

Some Supreme once wrote "one persons' rights end where another persons nose begins". That applies to what a person keeps in their car on someone else's property. Weather it be legal pot or legal guns, it's no one's business.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:37 PM

9. I guess we could go back to the "Good Old Days" when corporations could fire you ...

... for a political bumper sticker they didn't like.

Hell yeah, lets give corporations more control, as long as its anti gun it's just fine ... all of a sudden.

It always amazes me what pretzels gun grabbers will twist themselves into to struggle to score cheap points.

Now they are on the Corporatists side, last month they was loving the Bush/Cheney terror watch list ... as long as it was used to ban gun sales.

Nice conditional ethics at work. No wonder the NRA has no problem winning in court wit this brain trust.

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Response to DonP (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 06:01 PM

11. Henry Ford would often knock on employees' doors at home, uninvited.

 

He was checking up on them to make sure they weren't doing bad things like drinking or smoking on their own time, in their own homes.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 06:37 PM

12. My grandfather was a machinist at Ford before WWII in the 20's and 30's

He used to tell a lot of "Old Henry" stories. At the time I thought he was BSing me.

But I heard the same stories from others too.

Fired if you drove anything but a Ford into a Ford factory parking lot. Fired if he thought you voted for the wrong man. Fired if he saw you going in or coming out of a bar he considered "bad".

Once he said he actually saw Henry kick a stool out from under a guy sitting eating an apple next to the assembly line, cuss him out and fire him for loafing. Turned out it was a fire safety inspector who worked for the city of Dearborn who was on his lunch break. That cost Henry a lot of money.

But yeah, we should go back to those good old days, as long as they invade your privacy to control guns it's worth it.

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Response to DonP (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 06:37 PM

13. They can now unless your under a union/employment contract in Michigan. 'At-will' work state

so they can even fire you if they decided they your latest haircut.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:07 PM

17. What a huge non-issue.

Allowing guns hidden in locked vehicles?

Any company that doesn't allow employees to legally carry guns on their person is criminally irresponsible. Not allowing guns in vehicles is blatantly malicious.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 06:49 PM

26. The NRA should change its name to the Human Massacre Promotion Corporation

 

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:24 PM

30. Whats the problem with a gun in your car at work?

I had a gun in my car this week. The reason is simple. The shooting range is 5 minutes from work, or 30 minutes from home. If I want to go shooting after work, its a lot easier to drive 5 minutes, then go home, pick up a gun, then drive back, which would take 1 hour.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:33 PM

31. It's a slippery slope. If you start letting people keep guns in their cars on company property...

 

...next thing you know they'll demand that they be allowed to keep PORNOGRAPHY in their cars on company property.

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