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Sun Jan 15, 2012, 04:46 PM

17-year-old holding fake gun during robbery shot dead by Jacksonville police


The weapon used by the suspect in the robbery. Jacksonville Sheriff's Office said it was later determined to be a plastic replica of a Colt 1911 handgun, spray-painted black.

Officers were staking out store that had been held up in past two months.
Posted: January 14, 2012 - 7:46am | Updated: January 15, 2012 - 9:58am
By Drew Dixon , Jim Schoettler

A 17-year-old boy was killed by Jacksonville police officers early Saturday after police said he used a fake gun to hold up a Westside convenience store.

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The two officers watched through the store window as the teen pointed a gun at two clerks in the store, Hackney said, and the clerk gave him cash as the fake gun later determined to be spray-painted black was pointed at them.

The teen then ran out of the front door of the store where he was confronted by the two police officers. Hackney said the officers drew their weapons and ordered the teen to halt and surrender.

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Hackney said the officers fired a combined volley of seven to eight bullets at Ruise with most hitting him in the torso. Ruise was still holding the fake gun when he hit the ground. Two slugs from the guns fired by the police hit a nearby plastic fence, Hackney said.

Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012-01-14/story/17-year-old-holding-fake-gun-during-robbery-shot-dead-jacksonville#ixzz1jZ7hy2tK

What rules do you favor concerning the manufacture of look-alike toy guns?

23 replies, 3022 views

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Arrow 23 replies Author Time Post
Reply 17-year-old holding fake gun during robbery shot dead by Jacksonville police (Original post)
ellisonz Jan 2012 OP
ObamaFTW2012 Jan 2012 #1
oneshooter Jan 2012 #2
ileus Jan 2012 #10
X_Digger Jan 2012 #3
Hangingon Jan 2012 #5
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #6
burf Jan 2012 #4
slackmaster Jan 2012 #16
Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #7
Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #17
OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2012 #8
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #19
ileus Jan 2012 #9
S_B_Jackson Jan 2012 #11
AtheistCrusader Jan 2012 #12
Euromutt Jan 2012 #13
Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #18
rl6214 Jan 2012 #14
slackmaster Jan 2012 #15
Atypical Liberal Jan 2012 #20
MicaelS Jan 2012 #21
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #22
SteveW Jan 2012 #23

Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Sun Jan 15, 2012, 04:56 PM

1. Current law in most states

 

is that "facsimile firearms" must have an orange muzzle to visibly differentiate them from real firearms. I believe it is a federal requirement for importation as well. I feel that is sufficient, so long as there are penalties for violating the laws. If a person then buys a facsimile firearm and proceeds to make it appear real by removing/concealing the orange tip, or otherwise make it appear to be a real firearm, he/she should be prosecuted.

If a facsimile firearm is used in the commission of a violent crime - brandished as a real firearm during a robbery, etc - the perpetrator should be charged as if it were a real firearm. I believe this is the law in some states, but it should be the law in all states. Any consequences of attempting to commit a crime using a facsimile gun are, in my opinion, entirely the fault of the perpetrator.

As for this particular story, I feel that the perpetrator, a 17 year old, understood what he was doing (in contrast to say a 9 year old) and chose to gamble with his life. I feel no sympathy for him beyond my disappointment in his parents' failure to instill in him morals and integrity. Being a minor, I feel his death is their fault.

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Sun Jan 15, 2012, 05:07 PM

2. They are cheaper than the real ones. Got to save money somewhere.

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 15, 2012, 08:12 PM

10. few dollars more and he could have had a hi-point

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Sun Jan 15, 2012, 05:26 PM

3. Quick, ban black spray paint! n/t

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 15, 2012, 06:33 PM

5. Grafitti

Spray paint is controlled now in many jurisdictions. Kept under lock and key and an id is required to but.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 15, 2012, 06:50 PM

6. Spray paint; hell...

...ban black shoe polish!

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Sun Jan 15, 2012, 05:27 PM

4. What is wrong with these guys?

This is the second such shooting that has been reported recently. What do they think is gonna happen when you point a weapon, real or fake, at a police officer or an armed citizen?

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Response to burf (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 10:53 AM

16. There's really nothing to figure out, burf

 

They're stupid.

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Sun Jan 15, 2012, 06:58 PM

7. The 'rules', whatever they might be are not relevant to this story. An armed robber is an armed

 

robber. If the provenance of his 'arm' isn't obvious to the untutored casual observer, it will and should be considered real and dangerous. Nobody with any sense at all is going to ask him to let them inspect it closely to see if there's an actual threat. The idiot juvenile got exactly what he deserved.

on edit...the outcome was a good one, there's one less thug running around loose in JAX.

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Response to Wistful Vista (Reply #7)

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 10:56 AM

17. ^^^This^^^

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Sun Jan 15, 2012, 08:01 PM

8. look-alike guns not a problem,,, the cops got the thug now before he could buy a real gun later.

 

Darwin in action.

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Response to OneTenthofOnePercent (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 11:00 AM

19. Perhaps...

...just point of wisdom. Don't bring a toy to a gunfight.

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Sun Jan 15, 2012, 08:02 PM

9. hope the plastic fence wasn't hurt...

toy guns....LOLZ....Time to ban all gunz...they killz people.

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Sun Jan 15, 2012, 08:26 PM

11. The rules in place seem to be sufficient...

the problem is criminals who think that they are entitled to things which are not theirs.

Stupidity has it's own penalties...Mr Ruise discovered this too late it seems.

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 02:47 AM

12. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 07:52 AM

13. An unfortunate but predictable outcome

When you make an active effort to cause people to believe that you are in possession of a lethal weapon, and are prepared to use it to inflict potentially lethal injury in order to get what you want, it really shouldn't come as a surprise when people--including law enforcement--react accordingly.

Tighter gun laws don't make a fucking difference. There's no shortage of countries with tighter gun laws than the U.S. that also prohibit the possession of items that sufficiently resemble firearms to be usable to coerce by threat. Seems to me those laws wouldn't be necessary if the gun laws were actually effective at preventing armed robbers and the like from acquiring firearms. After all, if the intended victim could be certain that what you were pointing at him wasn't a real gun, and therefore had to be a spray-painted toy or whatnot, why would he hand over the cash at all?

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Response to Euromutt (Reply #13)

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 10:59 AM

18. exactly!

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 10:06 AM

14. Guns don't kill people

 

fake guns kill people

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 10:52 AM

15. Poor dumb kid threw his life away

 

What a tragic waste.

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 11:42 AM

20. None at all.

 

What rules do you favor concerning the manufacture of look-alike toy guns?

None at all. Kids want to play with realistic-looking guns. When I was a kid, they started putting those orange plugs in the end of the barrels of our otherwise fairly realistic-looking cap guns. We used my woodburning kit to melt them out.

If you make the things look too bad kids will just make their own, carved out of wood or somesuch.

But there seems to be no shortage of authentic-looking fake guns.

http://www.replicagunsdirect.com/?gclid=CKPWwNP91K0CFQpU7AodYDL2uA

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 12:16 PM

21. "What rules?" the present rules...

When a person can change a toy gun into one looking like a real one with a can of spray paint, what possible rules do you think that can prevent that?

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 12:29 PM

22. Toy guns...

...should be illegal. Wood should be illegal also.

Louis Piquett, John Dillinger's attorney, was able to sneak a wooden gun within the prison and into the hands of Dillinger. Using it, he was able to trick a guard into opening his cell. He then took two men hostage, rounded up all the guards in the jail, locked them in his cell, and fled. Before leaving, Dillinger said to the guards he locked up, "See what I locked all of you monkeys up with? Nothing but a little piece of wood. Well, so long, boys. I'll have to be moving on."




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dillinger

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 04:11 PM

23. Well, I guess painting them flourescent lime or day-glo orange won't do it...

Ever since that punk outlaw during the motor bandit era made his escape by carving one out of wood/soap, then "painting" it with shoe polish, I don't know what one can do about keeping a wannabe punk outlaw from acting out his/her fantasy. And when all else fails for these little farts, they will revert to 3-D xerox to arms themselves with an "AR-15."

Can anyone say "cookie-cutter?"

Do we outlaw these as well?

Or just the cookies?

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