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Thu Nov 29, 2012, 10:28 AM

 

The Case for More Guns (And More Gun Control)

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/12/the-case-for-more-guns-and-more-gun-control/309161/1/?single_page=true

An excellent, balanced article on guns in America.

27 replies, 2466 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 27 replies Author Time Post
Reply The Case for More Guns (And More Gun Control) (Original post)
Atypical Liberal Nov 2012 OP
Remmah2 Nov 2012 #1
krispos42 Nov 2012 #2
Berserker Nov 2012 #3
Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #4
friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #5
gejohnston Nov 2012 #6
Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #7
gejohnston Nov 2012 #8
Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #9
Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #11
Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #13
Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #14
Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #16
Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #18
Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #19
Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #20
Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #21
gejohnston Dec 2012 #15
Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #17
Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #22
Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #24
Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #25
Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #23
PavePusher Nov 2012 #10
AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #12
PavePusher Dec 2012 #26
AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #27

Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 10:39 AM

1. A decent discussion.

 

+1

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:04 AM

2. Very good article.

Very long, but he appears to have his facts in pretty good order.

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:24 AM

3. Great article

 

“If they get their way,” he said of the anti-gun forces, “people who are the victims of violent crimes wouldn’t be able to fight back; women who are abused couldn’t protect themselves; criminals will know that their intended victims, who have no access to the black market, will be unable to defend themselves.

“It’s more than that,” he went on. “Telling the population that they are incapable of owning a tool that can be dangerous means you are creating a population that loses its self-reliance and increasingly sees itself as wards of the state.”

Trying to get these simple statements into the skulls of the anti-self defense hate group is impossible.

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Response to Berserker (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:54 PM

4. WTF is an "anti-self defense hate group"

Who are those people? Quakers? Can you cite anybody who opposes self-defense? Can you name a group that opposes self-defense?

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:00 PM

5. I have to go with you on this one, ST- more like 'mandatory MMA-only self-defense' advocates.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:02 PM

6. anyone who equates

defending themselves with vigilantism. Or, insists the person could have calmly walked away even though the article quoted witnesses saying the guy was getting the crap beat out of him while trying to escape before firing. Shall I list the names?

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:05 PM

7. Yes please. Do you have some groups in mind, with quotes?

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:21 PM

8. I was thinking in terms of individuals here

and not groups. Just go through gungeon archives. This is the first one that comes up in a search of DU archives
http://www.democraticunderground.com/117248431
http://www.democraticunderground.com/117248035
I would not use the term "hate group", because it is likely to become another misused word for propaganda purposes like "fascist", "communist", "socialist", and "terrorist".

Outside of that, Paul Quander comes to mind.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:55 PM

9. So you agree with me then

There are no such things as "anti-self defense hate groups". That was just inflammatory bullshit from Berserker, with no basis in fact. Classic troll tactic.
I may disagree with Atypical Liberal and a few others here, whom I consider extreme in their views on gun use, but they are honest and engage in conversation, as do you, but statements like "anti-self defense hate group" are designed to create a flamefest, rather than encourage intelligent debate. We don't need members who post such intolerant drivel.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:55 PM

11. the group is narrowly defined as those posters to whom you have the links.

small group tis true but, a group nonetheless.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:33 PM

13. Sorry, I'm not following you. What group are you referring to?

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:42 PM

14. There are no such things as "anti-self defense hate groups". n/t

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 02:16 PM

16. I said that. Are you saying there are such hate groups?

I have seen no sign of them around here or anywhere. To hate self-defense would be like hating life or freedom or anything else basic to life on this planet, like oxygen or gravity.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 02:21 PM

18. I know what you said and I showed you how it is possible that a group such as that might exist -

albeit a Very Small Group of One or Two. A group nonetheless.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #18)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 02:29 PM

19. Well, anything might exist.

But there has been no citing or evidence that it exists around here, not even one person. BTW, I do not agree that One would qualify as a group. Smallest group my mind can reasonably handle is three.
Now, I'm still waiting for links to any posts where the member shows hatred toward the notion of self-defense.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 02:32 PM

20. and again -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=89087

Definition of GROUP
1
: two or more figures forming a complete unit in a composition
2
a : a number of individuals assembled together or having some unifying relationship
b : an assemblage of objects regarded as a unit
c (1) : a military unit consisting of a headquarters and attached battalions (2) : a unit of the United States Air Force higher than a squadron and lower than a wing
3
a : an assemblage of related organisms —often used to avoid taxonomic connotations when the kind or degree of relationship is not clearly defined
b (1) : two or more atoms joined together or sometimes a single atom forming part of a molecule; especially : functional group <a methyl group> (2) : an assemblage of elements forming one of the vertical columns of the periodic table
c : a stratigraphic division comprising rocks deposited during an era
4
: a mathematical set that is closed under a binary associative operation, contains an identity element, and has an inverse for every element

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 02:54 PM

21. OK, I'll go with 2. Now, let's wait for someone to produce evidence that they exist.

Remember, we're talking about "anti-self-defense hate groups" here, not the definition of the word "group".
The silence is deafening.
You see, hate groups have no problem declaring what or whom they hate. It is the focus and reason why such groups exist. So, do you think such groups exist?

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 01:32 PM

15. a collection of individuals can be called a group

without a name and incorporation.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 02:19 PM

17. Agreed. And...?

Have you seen anyone you considered a member of any hate group around here?

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 02:56 PM

22. What links? nt

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 04:33 PM

24. what group? nt

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 07:47 PM

25. The fictional hate group invented by our drive-by poster Berserker in Post#3

"Trying to get these simple statements into the skulls of the anti-self defense hate group is impossible."

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Response to Berserker (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 03:10 PM

23. Are you going to back up your "hate group" comment or was that just a "hit and run", bullshit post?

We are all waiting for you to back up your claim that there is an "anti-self defense hate group"
Some links would help bolster any credibility you might have left.

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:44 AM

10. A question everyone seems to be pointedly ignoring:

 

How does a society create a black-market?

Answer: Have the Government ban or over-regulate something.

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 03:58 AM

12. I'm ok with the government banning trade in stolen goods...

And black markets exist to move stolen goods whether the government does anything to thieves or not.

So yes, government can create black markets by banning something, but not all such markets arise ONLY in response to those bans.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 11:23 PM

26. Valid point.

 

But I sure don't think we should create additional niches in the blackmarket.

Prohibition I and II have not worked out in society's favor.....

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #26)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:25 AM

27. Totally agree.

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