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Mon Nov 19, 2012, 07:44 PM

Ever notice how the Brady Campaign has stopped talking about "gun control?"

It seems like whenever anyone affiliated with the Bradys speaks up now, the new meme is "gun violence prevention."

Not that much of a stretch, honestly, seeing that the full name of their organization is the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, but when you actually dig down and see how they actually propose to prevent gun violence, you begin to see a lot of the old familiar chestnuts that are soundly being rebuffed by the American people, not to mention the recent Heller and McDonald decisions by the Supreme Court.

And that tells me that the Brady Campaign is aware that it has an image problem. They're seen as the folks who want to confiscate any firearm aside from squirrel rifles and single-load shotguns. Recent activity by the Brady Campaign, including their well-publicized (but essentially fruitless) campaign to get Starbucks Coffee to ban concealed handguns from their establishments has increased their media visibility and given them some much-needed income, but they still have to fight the perception that they want to set fire to the Second Amendment and throw the burning parchment at the feet of the Statue of Liberty.

Which brings us back to "gun violence prevention."

Right now, the main focus of the Brady Campaign appears to be preserving and even strengthening background checks for firearm purchases. This is widely touted by Brady operatives as gun violence prevention, and all legal and Constitutional arguments aside, the current use of the NICS system appears to be yielding some overall desirable results. But many of the other ideas proposed by Brady luminaries under the umbrella of gun violence prevention still seem to fall under the same old paradigm of violating due process and weakening the age-old notion of "innocent until proven guilty."

You want gun violence prevention? Last I heard, many areas of America still have a huge gang problem. California, which arguably has the most draconian gun laws in the entire nation, is awash with armed thugs claiming loyalty to this colored rag or that particular number or whatever their logo happens to be. Flush with drug money and getting high on their own supply, often with minimal formal education and virtually no prospects for getting a decent career, they pull guns on each other for the most trivial and pointless of reasons, and it seems like the rest of society is being conditioned to accept their existence instead of doing something about it. Giving these kids a chance to excel at something that provides a decent wage and a chance to escape the cycle of murder and chemical addiction - that's what I'd call gun violence prevention.

John F. Kennedy spoke of going to the Moon "not because it is easy, but because it is hard." Some approaches to gun violence prevention are undoubtedly going to be quite difficult. But they will be much easier than law-abiding citizens trying to reclaim Constitutional rights once they are taken away. We can improve our record on gun-related crime. But if we sacrifice our rights in order to do so, then the whole effort is pointless.

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Reply Ever notice how the Brady Campaign has stopped talking about "gun control?" (Original post)
derby378 Nov 2012 OP
ileus Nov 2012 #1
JustABozoOnThisBus Nov 2012 #16
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #2
oneshooter Nov 2012 #4
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #5
oneshooter Nov 2012 #6
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #7
derby378 Nov 2012 #17
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #18
Berserker Nov 2012 #3
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #8
Berserker Nov 2012 #10
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #12
PavePusher Nov 2012 #9
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #11
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #13
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #14
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #15
Clames Nov 2012 #21
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #24
Clames Nov 2012 #28
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #29
Clames Nov 2012 #32
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #33
Clames Nov 2012 #34
S_B_Jackson Nov 2012 #19
Spryguy Nov 2012 #20
Clames Nov 2012 #22
glacierbay Nov 2012 #23
DonP Nov 2012 #25
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #26
glacierbay Nov 2012 #27
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #30
spin Nov 2012 #31
Spryguy Nov 2012 #36
gejohnston Nov 2012 #39
LAGC Nov 2012 #40
Spryguy Nov 2012 #42
gejohnston Nov 2012 #43
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #38
Berserker Nov 2012 #37
Spryguy Nov 2012 #41
bobclark86 Nov 2012 #46
hrmjustin Nov 2012 #47
Straw Man Nov 2012 #45
Clames Nov 2012 #35
jbgood1977 Nov 2012 #44

Response to derby378 (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 08:43 PM

1. preventing firearm abuse should be easy as cracking down on criminal behavior

and leaving firearm laws alone.

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Response to ileus (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 12:06 PM

16. That, plus a change in health care

... a more aggressive approach to recognizing and treating mental illness might help. We used to do a better job, but a lot of that infrastructure vanished under Prez Reagan.

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Response to derby378 (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 09:26 PM

2. No

have you ever noticed the Democratic Party's position on the subject.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 09:40 PM

4. And that is the end all and say all of it?

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 09:41 PM

5. No

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 09:47 PM

6. Are you saying that the DNC plank on gun control is NOT

the final word, as resolved and voted on by the DNC?

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 09:52 PM

7. It's The Party's Position Supported by Obama in Debates

Nothing is 'final'.

Otherwise the plank would not be needed nor would it be necessary to debate it in the debates.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 03:37 PM

17. Uh, you do have some idea who I am, right?

That platform plank is part of the problem. You can't support and oppose our Constitutional rights at the same time - it simply doesn't work.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #17)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 03:44 PM

18. Support and Oppose?

Evidently the Democratic Party disagrees and so do I.

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Response to derby378 (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 09:28 PM

3. Great Post

 

We ALL need to work on finding ways to stop violence and stop blaming GUNS. It is so easy to see through the ignorance of the anti-gun crowd. It's like listening to a nun talk about sex.

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Response to Berserker (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 09:55 PM

8. We

'We recognize that the individual right to bear arms is an important part of the American tradition, and we will preserve Americans' Second Amendment right to own and use firearms. We believe that the right to own firearms is subject to reasonable regulation. We understand the terrible consequences of gun violence; it serves as a reminder that life is fragile, and our time here is limited and precious. We believe in an honest, open national conversation about firearms. We can focus on effective enforcement of existing laws, especially strengthening our background check system, and we can work together to enact commonsense improvements--like reinstating the assault weapons ban and closing the gun show loophole--so that guns do not fall into the hands of those irresponsible, law-breaking few.'


Source: http://www.issues2000.org/celeb/Democratic_Party_Gun_Control.htm

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #8)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 11:14 PM

10. No thinking person

 

accepts everything in the Democratic platform verbatim because he calls himself a Democrat. As you can see it talks about AWB and gun show loop holes which is just a foot in the door of gun prohibition. As I stated before anti-gunners can be seen through.

I wonder sometimes which of these definitions some anti-gunners fall under.

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Response to Berserker (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 01:05 AM

12. I Tolerate Worthy Opponents

Not guns.

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Response to Berserker (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 10:00 PM

9. You just don't know the right nuns.... n/t

 

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Response to derby378 (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 11:17 PM

11. No surprise the Brady Republicans continue a control/prohibitionist

approach. The Brady Campaign has a deeply Republican outlook: Government social programs are "the problem," to paraphrase Reagan. So they rely on controls & prohibitionism. And evidently some "Democrats" have drifted that way.

No one should expect from the GOP-founded, GOP-led Bradys ANY meaningful proposals for ameliorating the conditions that give rise to the most violent crimes. Politically, it ain't in their blood.

Progressive Democrats will have to do the job.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #11)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 01:07 AM

13. Brady

Keep telling yourself that.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #13)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:08 AM

14. When it's obvious no repetition is needed.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 10:54 AM

15. Huh?

Which is it?

Pro-Gun control advocates are still fighting for gun control or not.

Whole thread is as silly as your contribution to it.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:44 PM

21. Since you've contributed exactly nothing to this thread.

 

Go peddle your wares in meta...

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Response to Clames (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:02 PM

24. And THIS Is YOUR First Post on Thread

Need a mirror?

This is your first post on this thread and ALL you have to say is I have contributed nothing.
Too funny.
See OP.
My Posts: See post 5, 7, 8, 13, 15.
Yours: None

Looks like YOU have nothing to contribute. Peddle your own wares in Meta.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:39 PM

28. Whole lot of nothing from you.

 

You're posts are just like adding zeroes. Nothing but whining and caps lock abuse from you. One of these days you'll actually come up with something original concerning gun policy in this country. Do you actually understand current laws well enough to make a common sense assessment and contribution? Nothing but Brady Campaign parroting as far as I've seen from you. That's the best you've done.

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Response to Clames (Reply #28)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:45 PM

29. OK

Got it. You don't like me. That's the best you can ever do. Have you ever addressed any gun policy or legislation with me without some personal disdain? I don't recall. LOL.

If Brady is parroting me, good for them. Your assumption I read them or am a member or donor shows what you know.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #29)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 05:27 PM

32. Almost.

 

You don't recall? Some people have memory issues and I understand that. It explains how you forgot what what actually just posted because it was clearly stated that you are the one parroting. Minor detail of course but then the pro-gun control advocates are well known not to inconvenience themselves with details. And nothing I stated assumes you are a member or read anything from them. Details.

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Response to Clames (Reply #32)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 05:55 PM

33. Yawn

Nothing substantive.

And, no, the post suggested maybe Brady is parroting ME rather than the other way around. 'Details indeed'...'clearly.'

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #33)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:04 PM

34. Try again.

 

But first work on your reading comprehension...

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Response to derby378 (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:04 AM

19. No matter how they attempt to style themselves, at heart they remain Handgun Control, Inc.

The original name was a more honest statement of the goals they still seek to accomplish.

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Response to derby378 (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:24 AM

20. It's right there...

 

in the party plank. And who cares if it's foot in the door to prohibition or not? The President previously supported hand gun bans, and the majority of American's support more restrictions on death spewers.

Don't worry, you'll be able to keep your single shot rifle to go hunting.

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Response to Spryguy (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:46 PM

22. Keeping every firearm I currently own.

 

Not a damn thing anyone can do about it either....

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Response to Spryguy (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:50 PM

23. Hmmmmmmmm

 

"death spewers", been taking lessons from another well known prohibitionist?

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #23)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:06 PM

25. You mean the one that doesn't come down much anymore?

Because he keeps getting his ass waxed every time he does?

He was actually proud of the fact that he didn't know what a NICS check or 4473 was, but demanded background checks in the same post. He was generally very impressed with himself and thought we should all know who he is from other fora.

Then he tried to claim that referring to guns as "death spewers" was "just a joke" when he was embarrassed again and again.

Ah, I miss him ... about as much as a boil on my ass while riding a horse.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #23)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:12 PM

26. Who is that?

(Hoping not me)

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:05 PM

30. Ok

Thanks

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Response to Spryguy (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 04:01 PM

31. While many Americans DO support truly reasonable improvements to current gun laws ...

the majority DOES NOT support banning certain firearms such as handguns or "assault weapons."


October 26, 2011
Record-Low 26% in U.S. Favor Handgun Ban
Support for stricter gun laws in general is lowest Gallup has measured

by Jeffrey M. Jones

PRINCETON, NJ -- A record-low 26% of Americans favor a legal ban on the possession of handguns in the United States other than by police and other authorized people. When Gallup first asked Americans this question in 1959, 60% favored banning handguns. But since 1975, the majority of Americans have opposed such a measure, with opposition around 70% in recent years.



***snip***

For the first time, Gallup finds greater opposition to than support for a ban on semiautomatic guns or assault rifles, 53% to 43%. In the initial asking of this question in 1996, the numbers were nearly reversed, with 57% for and 42% against an assault rifle ban. Congress passed such a ban in 1994, but the law expired when Congress did not act to renew it in 2004. Around the time the law expired, Americans were about evenly divided in their views.



***snip***

As recently as 2007, a majority of Americans still favored stricter laws, which had been the dominant view since Gallup first asked the question in 1990.



Americans' preference regarding gun laws is generally that the government enforce existing laws more strictly and not pass new laws (60%) rather than pass new gun laws in addition to stricter enforcement of existing laws (35%). That has been the public's view since Gallup first asked the question in 2000; the 60% this year who want stricter enforcement but no new laws is tied for the high in the trend.


http://www.gallup.com/poll/150341/Record-Low-Favor-Handgun-Ban.aspx


Estimates show that there are over 300,000,000 firearms owned by 80,000,000 citizens in our nation. While some hunters do use single shot rifles to take game most use bolt action or semi-automatic firearms.

Even if you did manage to pass a ban on rifles that have a larger capacity than one round, how would you enforce that ban and confiscate the weapons that were suddenly illegal? Let me assure you that a HIGH percentage of gun owners would simply refuse to turn in their weapons.

Would you task Homeland Security with the job of going house to house confiscating firearms and arresting the owners? I would predict that any attempt to do so would lead to a violent revolution. It is possible that the government would win in the end but the amount of unnecessary bloodshed would be enormous. There are many "patriotic" gun owners in this nation who would view gun confiscation as a prelude to destroying our system of democracy and would be willing to fight to prevent it form happening. Remember that we have the best trained military in the world and many citizens have received excellent training from their years of service that they could use to resist what they would feel is a dictatorial government.

Fortunately such a gun ban as you suggest has no chance of passing anytime in the near future and very little chance of ever passing. It's simply a pipe dream. Even the most ardent supporters of gun control are not suggesting anything close to your idea.

At one time, as a politician from Illinois, Obama did support a handgun ban. That's not surprising as Illinois is one of the most gun unfriendly states in the Union and he would have had a hard time getting elected as a dog catcher in that state if he would have been pro-gun.

During his recent campaign for reelection Obama did suggest a discussion on another "assault weapons" ban. However there is little interest in Congress in pushing for such an idea and the votes are lacking to pass such a measure. Overall in his first term as President, Obama has been very gun friendly. I have little fear that he will turn into a "gun grabber" in his second term.

It's always great fun to fantasize but reality is a bitch.

It's my opinion and also the view of many gun owners that we can improve existing gun laws and better enforce them. I feel that this should be a goal of responsible citizens on both sides of the issue. Forget your draconian approach to gun control as all it does is alienate the other side and makes compromise impossible.




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Response to spin (Reply #31)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:45 PM

36. WHoah graphs

 

hunters do use single shot rifles to take game most use bolt action or semi-automatic firearms.

Even if you did manage to pass a ban on rifles that have a larger capacity than one round, how would you enforce that ban and confiscate the weapons that were suddenly illegal? Let me assure you that a HIGH percentage of gun owners would simply refuse to turn in their weapons.

"Would you task Homeland Security with the job of going house to house confiscating firearms and arresting the owners? I would predict that any attempt to do so would lead to a violent revolution."

Hmmm, how did the last revolution work out again?

"Fortunately such a gun ban as you suggest has no chance of passing anytime in the near future and very little chance of ever passing. It's simply a pipe dream. Even the most ardent supporters of gun control are not suggesting anything close to your idea."

It already exists, by and large, in New Jersey, New York City, and Chicago. Overtime, we can work towards expanding it to cover the rest of the country.

"At one time, as a politician from Illinois, Obama did support a handgun ban. That's not surprising as Illinois is one of the most gun unfriendly states in the Union and he would have had a hard time getting elected as a dog catcher in that state if he would have been pro-gun."

He dropped the hand gun ban, but is still an ardent (and open) supporter of the AWB. One step at a time, friend.

"It's always great fun to fantasize but reality is a bitch."

Maybe, maybe not. Of course, 50 years ago if I said gays woudl serve openly in the military and a black man would be president, I would have been told the same thing >

"Forget your draconian approach to gun control as all it does is alienate the other side and makes compromise impossible."

I'm not too worried on "compromising" with repigs on this issue. The other side consists of nothing but white racist rednecks, so f**k them AND their opinions. However, I am content with letting it lie as a major party issue until we get a stranglehold in both houses and the presidency (fingers crossed for next congressional election!).

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Response to Spryguy (Reply #36)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 12:58 AM

39. so it is just a right left issue?

hunters do use single shot rifles to take game most use bolt action or semi-automatic firearms.

Even if you did manage to pass a ban on rifles that have a larger capacity than one round, how would you enforce that ban and confiscate the weapons that were suddenly illegal? Let me assure you that a HIGH percentage of gun owners would simply refuse to turn in their weapons.
The 5A would make it very expensive. What would happen, most likely, is have prohibited class of licensing like Canada does for grandfathered machine guns.

Hmmm, how did the last revolution work out again?
Not well for the British. The Civil War was not a revolution.

v class="excerpt"]It already exists, by and large, in New Jersey, New York City, and Chicago. Overtime, we can work towards expanding it to cover the rest of the country.
How is that working out for them? BTW, how are those bans working out in USVI? British VI?

He dropped the hand gun ban, but is still an ardent (and open) supporter of the AWB. One step at a time, friend.
Like Nixon said, the gun owners will retaliate at the polls

Maybe, maybe not. Of course, 50 years ago if I said gays would serve openly in the military and a black man would be president, I would have been told the same thing >
Really? We had an openly gay president before any of them. I would not have thought concealed carry would be liberalized even in Wyoming let alone Florida.

I'm not too worried on "compromising" with repigs on this issue. The other side consists of nothing but white racist rednecks, so f**k them AND their opinions. However, I am content with letting it lie as a major party issue until we get a stranglehold in both houses and the presidency (fingers crossed for next congressional election!).
Did you watch the DNC? Two of the speakers were NRA backed gun owners. It is not about left/right. It isn't really crime control, since most people supporting gun prohibition don't actually believe crime will drop, it is more about culture. Thing is, while Dems are rare in the mountain western states like Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho, the few that are there are to the left of anyone in New York, let alone in the south. Here is the governor of Montana at the DNC knocking Mitt raising gun license fees.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 05:01 AM

40. I so hope he runs in 2016.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:33 PM

42. Disagree...

 

"Not well for the British. The Civil War was not a revolution. "

Absolutely disagree. The southern states took up arms and revolted against the rightful Federal government, and they got schooled for their troubles. Not all revolutions are noble.

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Response to Spryguy (Reply #42)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:49 PM

43. revolutions seek to overthrow the government

the Civil War was an attempt at forming another government that would co existing the US. Therefore, the Civil War was not a revolution. The Spanish Civil War on the other hand............
rev·o·lu·tion/ˌrevəˈlo͞oSHən/
Noun:
A forcible overthrow of a government or social order for a new system.
(in Marxism) The class struggle that is expected to lead to political change and the triumph of communism.

here is a more detailed explaintion
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_a_revolution_and_a_civil_war

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Response to spin (Reply #31)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:42 PM

38. You said,

 

"At one time, as a politician from Illinois, Obama did support a handgun ban. That's not surprising as Illinois is one of the most gun unfriendly states in the Union and he would have had a hard time getting elected as a dog catcher in that state if he would have been pro-gun."


(1) Actually, he came from a safe district.

(2) To the extent that he "supported" a handgun ban, that's not clear from his voting record. At one time when a signifigant hand-gun ban vote was called in Illinois, and some were said to have been relying upon his vote, he was absent in Hawaii.

(3) His words and actions are inconsistent. As an example, at one time he said "As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns." But, because he signed an anti-gun document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois, his signature on that document (rather than his words "I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns.") has been interpreted as reflecting his true feelings.
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/barack_obama_gun_control.htm

What's his true position? Who knows?

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Response to Spryguy (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:16 PM

37. I beg of you please don't ban

 

my Glock what ever would I do. Please post a link where the majority of Americans support restrictions on gun owners. Now this is the part where you tell me I am a troll after 9 years on DU and I post here then slither under a rock.
Oh yes here is a picture of my little sweetheart my G19 Gen 3 this one is new they are so cute at that age. She goes with me everywhere I go I am licensed in my state. My party is the Democratic party and I own guns. And I support the 2nd amendment of the bill of rights don't you? Or does your party plank not support the Bill of Rights?

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Response to Berserker (Reply #37)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:24 AM

41. NO, I don't...

 

but then, I don't support the 3/5 compromise or the 18th Amendment, either. And sorry, you're not intimidating me by being internet tough guy and posting a picture of your silly little safety blanket.Just confirms my opinion on most handgun owners.

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Response to Spryguy (Reply #41)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 04:39 PM

46. Yeah...

You mean parts of the Constitution which are no longer valid? As in they've been crossed out? Yeah, because that's the same thing as something listed between freedom of speech and freedom from self-incrimination...

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #46)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 08:32 PM

47. Welcome to DU!

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Response to Spryguy (Reply #20)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 09:28 PM

45. People who get their information from the Brady Campaign ...

... and the VPC think that all firearms that aren't single-shot are full-auto.

Because deceiving the public in order to get them to support your agenda is s-o-o-o-o-o progressive, right?

Do I need a sarcasm tag?

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Response to derby378 (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 08:10 PM

35. They've been trying to rebrand themselves for years.

 

They know they are still considered an anti-gun organization though they say they aren't. No surprise they hired an advertising executive to replace Helmke either. They know they have a serious image problem with the general public and flagging membership. All they've done so far is put a new wrapper on the same old crap they've been peddling for years.

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Response to derby378 (Original post)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 12:30 AM

44. A rose by any other name

 

would still have a thorn to prick you.

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