Fri Nov 16, 2012, 02:47 AM
mikeb302000 (1,065 posts)
The Heritage Foundation Refutes the Big UN-Arms-Trade-Treaty Conspiracy
Media Matters reports with lots of cool links
The right-leaning Heritage Foundation has thrown cold water on the revival a conspiracy theory pushed on Fox News by contributor Dick Morris and the National Rifle Association that the United Nation's Arms Trade Treaty (ATT) is actually a sinister Obama administration plot to eliminate the right of private individuals to own a firearm. The gullibility of the gun-rights folks is really funny. When Wayne tells them to be afraid, or to be outraged, they obey blindly. They love to perceive themselves as victims fighting to the death against overwhelming odds. I've named this phenomenon grandiose victimism. What's your opinion? Will the pronouncement of the Heritage Foundation ease their troubled minds? I doubt it. Please leave a comment. Cross posted at Mikeb302000
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16 replies, 1333 views
| Author | Time | Post | |
| mikeb302000 | Nov 2012 | OP | |
| gejohnston | Nov 2012 | #1 | |
| sigmasix | Nov 2012 | #2 | |
| Trunk Monkey | Nov 2012 | #6 | |
| GreenStormCloud | Nov 2012 | #3 | |
| ProgressiveProfessor | Nov 2012 | #4 | |
| Clames | Nov 2012 | #5 | |
| 4th law of robotics | Nov 2012 | #7 | |
| Tuesday Afternoon | Nov 2012 | #8 | |
| Howzit | Nov 2012 | #9 | |
| ileus | Nov 2012 | #14 | |
| ileus | Nov 2012 | #15 | |
| Howzit | Nov 2012 | #16 | |
| Howzit | Nov 2012 | #9 | |
| trouble.smith | Nov 2012 | #11 | |
| ileus | Nov 2012 | #13 | |
| ileus | Nov 2012 | #12 |
Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)
Fri Nov 16, 2012, 02:59 AM
gejohnston (12,833 posts)
1. it is not unique to NRA members
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Last edited Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:14 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1) The gullibility of the gun-rights folks is really funny. When Wayne tells them to be afraid, or to be outraged, they obey blindly. all propagandists depend on gullibility, including you. Ever notice how gun control groups use meaningless buzz words like "make my day" "shoot first law" and "assault weapon" often not bothering to look up the law or what the term means? How about blogs that copy and paste from poorly written unresearched bullshit from each other?
To answer your question, some folks believe centralization equals authoritarian or totalitarianism. Edit to ask, has Wayne or the NRA said the UN will take away anyone's guns, or is it hyperbole that some blogger wrote and people started accepting as gospel? |
Response to gejohnston (Reply #1)
Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:59 AM
sigmasix (508 posts)
2. NRA conspiracy theory mongers
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Yes- on many ocassions Wayne has asserted that the POTUS is conspiring to take gun rights away from Americans, with the help of the UN. Just look at the hand-wringing and crazy conspiracy schemes that greeted police that were simply trying to force irresponsible gun owners to pick up thier bullet casings, instead of littering our national parks with them. Alex Jones and the head of the NRA agree with each other's assesment and the narrative being presented by both of these conspiracy theory mongers is filled with hyperbole and out-right lies about the patriotism and morality of president Barack Obama.
So yeah...Wayne is just as much of a conspiracy theory monger about the UN and gun rights issues as the teabaggers are on birtherism and creeping sharia law. |
Response to sigmasix (Reply #2)
Fri Nov 16, 2012, 01:18 PM
Trunk Monkey (950 posts)
6. If Alex Jones agreed with me that water was wet, I'd rethink my position NT
Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)
Fri Nov 16, 2012, 05:15 AM
GreenStormCloud (10,368 posts)
3. I prefer to see the text of the treaty.
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I am concerned about a provision the requires the manufacturing company to be told of who the end user of an internationally traded gun is. Does that mean that if I buy a SIG that SIG has to be told that I bought it? But the final treaty has not been finished so that provision may be dropped, so I want to see the proposed treaty.
Because of other UN treaties will we be required to obey it, even if the Senate rejects it? |
Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #3)
Fri Nov 16, 2012, 10:13 AM
ProgressiveProfessor (22,144 posts)
4. There is some ambiguity in the treaty language that the opponents are citing
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That language would not matter in a repressive countries like Russia or Mexico but does in a nations with slightly more freedoms like the US and Canada.
Its too late to change the language since adoption has started. |
Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #3)
Fri Nov 16, 2012, 10:45 AM
Clames (2,038 posts)
5. SIG does have a manufacturing plant in the United States for the P229.
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Glock, H&K, and FN Herstal also have factories here so they could technically skirt that part of the treaty.
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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)
Fri Nov 16, 2012, 02:11 PM
4th law of robotics (6,801 posts)
7. A) it's a handful
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B) the claims on the other side are equally ridiculous.
/pistol grips make a gun military-style! Shoulder things that go up increase the lethality of the weapon by a bazillion percent! |
Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)
Fri Nov 16, 2012, 05:13 PM
Tuesday Afternoon (44,891 posts)
8. like, I give a fuck what Wayne says.
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Bruce Wayne, maybe.
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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)
Sun Nov 25, 2012, 04:07 AM
Howzit (967 posts)
9. According to the UN’s own policy makers they are standing by to disarm civilians around the world
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Last edited Sun Nov 25, 2012, 04:11 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1) We can discuss the intent of UN officials that craft gun control policy, including the ATT, and then there is the matter of what language actually ends up in the ATT. Based on the first link and section of quotes, the intent seems fairly clear; even if this is not written into early drafts of the ATT. The second link explains the mechanics of disarming citizens and explains how the UN would be more than happy to help in such efforts:
In the UN article below, it is clearly and explicitly stated that their intent is to disarm the world's civilian population; and that, by definition includes American gun owners - gun ownership in the USA is also explicitly mentioned. The discussion in this article includes the UN ATT as a vehicle to achieve gun control, leading to the ultimate goal of complete civilian disarmament – note that disarmament is like pregnancy in that it is binary and that it is a process leading to a logical ultimate conclusion. http://www.un.org/wcm/content/site/chronicle/home/archive/issues2009/wemustdisarm/smallarmsnosinglesolution "Disarming civilian populations is more difficult than disarming governments. Nevertheless it is arguably more necessary, given that civilians constitute the overwhelming majority not only of gun owners" http://www.smallarmsstandards.org/isacs/0540-en.pdf Page 7: "Collection of small arms and light weapons: It is applicable in settings that have undergone legislative reform restricting the access of civilians to small arms" The statement from page 11 below acknowledges what we all know to be blindingly obvious; so why is the UN's primary objective disarmament, rather than addressing what motivates people to hurt each other? "Removing tools of violence from communities without addressing the root causes of conflict is unlikely to make a durable contribution to building peace and security." Page 30: "The timing and duration of a weapons collection programme may be influenced by a number of factors. Timing may be determined by such factors as a shocking incident involving the misuse of weapons." In other words, keep ratcheting up restrictions on what firearms civilians may own (until no guns or very few "qualified" people are left), and use every possible excuse to justify disarmament, such as "mass shootings". |
Response to Howzit (Reply #9)
Sun Nov 25, 2012, 09:24 AM
ileus (9,313 posts)
14. masculine identity etc.
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"In a non-conflict country like the USA, a private citizen with no criminal record might buy a gun from the ex-soldier (legal) or a gunshop (legal), and later sell it at a garage sale to a stranger (legal or illegal, depending on local state or city law). The stranger may transfer it to a criminal gang (illegal); or he may simply keep the gun at home (possibly legal), from where it may be stolen by a burglar (illegal), or taken to school by his adolescent son to impress his friends (illegal). The lethal potential of a firearm remains the same, regardless of its legal status."
"What about the private individuals who control three-quarters of the global arsenal, and their motivation for acquiring arms? Again, there are some practical applications where guns are simply tools for feeding one’s family or doing one’s job. But the less rational factors driving demand among Governments also have their counterparts at the level of individuals—fear of the unknown, isolation, belief in the use of force to retain control, market and media pressure, masculine identity etc. Though these feelings may be irrational, they have a real impact. When translated into gun ownership they create insecurity for households, communities and countries as a whole. Paradoxically, people buy firearms because they feel insecure; and the result is more insecurity." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sounds like some of our fellow posters here write stuff for the UN. |
Response to Howzit (Reply #9)
Sun Nov 25, 2012, 09:37 AM
ileus (9,313 posts)
15. Interesting information in your PDF there.
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6.4 Licensing and registration
Collection is not the only method of reducing the number of illicit small arms in circulation. Some weapons may be illegal because their owners have not licensed or registered them in accordance with domestic law. Such weapons may be rendered legal by encouraging their owners to licence and (if required by law) register them, thus bringing formerly illegal weapons under State control. So licensing and registration brings weapons under state control....Humm wonder what that means. |
Response to Howzit (Reply #9)
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 05:14 AM
Howzit (967 posts)
16. The UN wants to regulate your ability to freely discuss this or any other topic:
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http://news.yahoo.com/bitter-struggle-over-internet-regulation-dominate-global-summit-040702595--sector.html
The 12-day conference of the International Telecommunications Union, a 157-year-old organization that's now an arm of the United Nations, largely pits revenue-seeking developing countries and authoritarian regimes that want more control over Internet content against U.S. policymakers and private Net companies that prefer the status quo. |
Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)
Howzit This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)
Sun Nov 25, 2012, 05:40 AM
trouble.smith (374 posts)
11. can anyone explain how entering into this treaty will benefit America?
Response to trouble.smith (Reply #11)
Sun Nov 25, 2012, 09:02 AM
ileus (9,313 posts)
13. If it doesn't result in more platform sales, I can't imagine it has any benefits.
Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)
Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:58 AM
ileus (9,313 posts)

