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Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:23 AM

What The NRA's "All In" Failure Means For The Media

The National Rifle Association said they were "all in" on the 2012 election. They lost. Now it's the media's responsibility to stop portraying them as an invincible electoral juggernaut.

The media has warned for years that strengthening gun violence prevention laws is impossible because of the political power of the gun lobby. This claim was always flawed; studies show that the NRA and its allies do not wield outsized power, and common sense gun policies are favored by large majorities of Americans and even, in some cases, NRA members.

But yesterday's election results provide incontrovertible evidence that the media's portrayal of the politics surrounding the gun issue has been inaccurate.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/11/07/what-the-nras-all-in-failure-means-for-the-medi/191205

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Reply What The NRA's "All In" Failure Means For The Media (Original post)
SecularMotion Nov 2012 OP
sarisataka Nov 2012 #1
krispos42 Nov 2012 #2
HankyDub Nov 2012 #6
glacierbay Nov 2012 #9
HankyDub Nov 2012 #11
glacierbay Nov 2012 #12
HankyDub Nov 2012 #16
glacierbay Nov 2012 #18
HankyDub Nov 2012 #20
glacierbay Nov 2012 #22
HankyDub Nov 2012 #24
glacierbay Nov 2012 #25
HankyDub Nov 2012 #26
glacierbay Nov 2012 #28
HankyDub Nov 2012 #32
glacierbay Nov 2012 #35
Travis_0004 Nov 2012 #130
gejohnston Nov 2012 #30
HankyDub Nov 2012 #31
glacierbay Nov 2012 #33
HankyDub Nov 2012 #36
glacierbay Nov 2012 #37
HankyDub Nov 2012 #39
glacierbay Nov 2012 #42
HankyDub Nov 2012 #43
WinniSkipper Nov 2012 #85
doc03 Nov 2012 #126
glacierbay Nov 2012 #127
gejohnston Nov 2012 #34
HankyDub Nov 2012 #38
glacierbay Nov 2012 #40
gejohnston Nov 2012 #41
HankyDub Nov 2012 #44
gejohnston Nov 2012 #45
HankyDub Nov 2012 #46
gejohnston Nov 2012 #47
HankyDub Nov 2012 #48
doc03 Nov 2012 #128
gejohnston Nov 2012 #129
dumbledork Nov 2012 #51
friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #53
HankyDub Nov 2012 #59
dumbledork Nov 2012 #83
HankyDub Nov 2012 #84
dumbledork Nov 2012 #86
HankyDub Nov 2012 #87
dumbledork Nov 2012 #88
friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #90
HankyDub Nov 2012 #91
friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #92
HankyDub Nov 2012 #93
friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #96
backwoodsbob Nov 2012 #100
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #54
Jenoch Nov 2012 #99
glacierbay Nov 2012 #101
safeinOhio Nov 2012 #49
glacierbay Nov 2012 #50
HankyDub Nov 2012 #60
glacierbay Nov 2012 #62
apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #144
apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #143
glacierbay Nov 2012 #145
apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #146
glacierbay Nov 2012 #147
Logical Nov 2012 #58
apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #142
glacierbay Nov 2012 #3
HankyDub Nov 2012 #17
glacierbay Nov 2012 #19
HankyDub Nov 2012 #21
glacierbay Nov 2012 #23
Glaug-Eldare Nov 2012 #27
glacierbay Nov 2012 #29
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #55
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #70
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #4
Atypical Liberal Nov 2012 #5
SecularMotion Nov 2012 #7
Atypical Liberal Nov 2012 #8
glacierbay Nov 2012 #10
sarisataka Nov 2012 #13
glacierbay Nov 2012 #15
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #56
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #68
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #67
Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #74
tortoise1956 Nov 2012 #89
Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #72
aikoaiko Nov 2012 #14
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #78
ellisonz Nov 2012 #52
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #57
hack89 Nov 2012 #61
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #65
Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #63
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #69
Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #71
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #73
Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #75
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #76
Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #77
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #79
Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #80
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #81
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #141
Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #139
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #140
cherokeeprogressive Nov 2012 #64
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #66
doc03 Nov 2012 #82
hack89 Nov 2012 #94
AtheistCrusader Nov 2012 #95
friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #97
Jenoch Nov 2012 #98
graham4anything Nov 2012 #102
gejohnston Nov 2012 #103
graham4anything Nov 2012 #105
gejohnston Nov 2012 #106
graham4anything Nov 2012 #107
gejohnston Nov 2012 #108
graham4anything Nov 2012 #109
gejohnston Nov 2012 #110
graham4anything Nov 2012 #111
gejohnston Nov 2012 #113
friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #114
derby378 Nov 2012 #131
friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #115
graham4anything Nov 2012 #116
friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #132
graham4anything Nov 2012 #133
gejohnston Nov 2012 #134
graham4anything Nov 2012 #135
gejohnston Nov 2012 #136
graham4anything Nov 2012 #137
Glaug-Eldare Nov 2012 #104
Glaug-Eldare Nov 2012 #112
graham4anything Nov 2012 #117
Glaug-Eldare Nov 2012 #118
graham4anything Nov 2012 #119
Glaug-Eldare Nov 2012 #120
graham4anything Nov 2012 #121
Glaug-Eldare Nov 2012 #122
oneshooter Nov 2012 #123
graham4anything Nov 2012 #124
dumbledork Nov 2012 #125
graham4anything Nov 2012 #138


Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:28 AM

2. There has also been basically no national movement on gun laws

So the premise that the NRA is a paper tiger will need to be tested. Any volunteers?


The NRA has also won a string of victories on the state level in the past 4 years. I see an awful lot of new concealed-carry laws, for example, and damn few limits on magazine capacity or assault-weapon bans.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:52 AM

6. I think we also need to challenge the idea that the NRA is a single issue advocacy group.

 

They attacked a president who did virtually nothing in the way of gun laws and favored a candidate who signed an assault weapons ban.

It's time to point out what we all already know. The NRA is a right wing special interest group whose primary interest is supporting the republiklan party. Guns are a secondary concern.

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Response to HankyDub (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 11:11 AM

9. I don't like the NRA

 

but they are a single advocacy group, gun rights only, if you have proof of other issues that they advocate for, by all means, post the proof w/links.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #9)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 11:27 AM

11. this is obviously untrue

 

and the last presidential election is a great example, as I showed. The NRA is just a right wing advocacy group.

Proof with links? Open your eyes.

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Response to HankyDub (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 11:39 AM

12. Post the proof that the NRA

 

is anything other than a gun advocacy group, have they advocated for the repeal of ACA? Reproductive rights? Gay rights? What other issue have they advocated for?
If you want to be taken seriously, then provide proof w/links, otherwise, you have nothing.

Here is their mission statement.


http://www.nrafoundation.org/giftannuity/mission.asp

Established in 1990, the NRA Foundation, Inc., is a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization that raises tax-deductible contributions in support of a wide range of firearms-related public interest activities of the National Rifle Association of America and other organizations that defend and foster the Second Amendment rights of all law-abiding Americans. These activities are designed to promote firearms and hunting safety, to enhance marksmanship skills of those participating in the shooting sports, and to educate the general public about firearms in their historic, technological and artistic context.


I provided my proof, now provide yours.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:02 PM

16. Proof is in the pudding.

 

You continue to ignore the fact I have presented here, because you can't refute it. The NRA chose to support a man who as governor signed a ban on assault rifles against a president who actually expanded gun rights.

Then theres the fact that the NRA has paid speakers like $arah Palin and Blenn Beckkk to appear at its annual idiot festival, and those persons clearly do take positions on a variety of issues.

And no, posting mission statements from the NRA's website isn't proof of anything.

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Response to HankyDub (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:09 PM

18. What Proof?

 

You've posted nothing but your opinion while OTOH, I've posted proof that they are a single advocacy org.

I'll ask again, post the proof that they advocate for anything else besides American's gun rights.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #18)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:21 PM

20. Continue to ignore it

 

but it's still the giant elephant in the room.

The fact is that the NRA supported a candidate who signed an assault weapons ban against a president who expanded gun rights. You can't dispute that. It's a fact.

It's also a fact that the NRA's various board members, such as Ted Nugent, routinely advocate a number of right wing causes, such as opposition to medicare and marriage equality. They cross-pollinate with Grover Norquist and Ollie North and Ken Blackwell, who are used as spokespersons on a variety of issues by the republiklan party.

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Response to HankyDub (Reply #20)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:27 PM

22. Just as I thought

 

you have no proof. Their board members can advocate what they want, but have you EVER seen it on the NRA website?
If so, then provide the links. Really simple if you want to be believed.

Show us where on their website that they have EVER advocated any thing other than gun rights. That's all I'm asking for, proof.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #22)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:41 PM

24. as I thought

 

You continue to ignore the facts I presented about the presidential election, because you can't refute them. Several times I iave repeated this fact, and each and every time you have ignored it. You haven't even attempted to dispute that.

The NRA's website is geared toward promoting the NRA. The NRA's website isn't a credible source of anything.

Their board members routinely advocate for all kinds of right wing causes, it's a "who's who" of despicable right wing filth. Their board members represent the NRA and when the advocate those other causes they are doing so with the approval of the NRA with the imprimatur of the NRA. When Ted Nugent rants hatefully about gay people, people know that his political relevance is solely ascribable to his position as an NRA board member.

When they pay speakers who are right wing lunatics like $arah Palin and Glenn Beck, those persons also have the implied support of the NRA.

I expect you will continue to ignore all facts presented and insist on "proof" from the NRA propaganda organ itself. You argument is pathetically weak.

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Response to HankyDub (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:55 PM

25. And you continue to refuse to provide proof.

 

so at this point I can only conclude that your refusal to provide the oft asked for proof means that you can't find it.
If you can't, just admit it and move on.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #25)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 01:10 PM

26. I have provided ample proof

 

but you have failed to address any of my points. Is that what you always do when you are losing an argument?

The NRA is a republiklan lobbyist group. Just admit it and move on.

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Response to HankyDub (Reply #26)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 01:16 PM

28. One more time

 

What proof? Where are your links to your alleged proof? That's all I'm asking for, is links to your proof, if you can prove that the NRA advocates for anything other than gun rights, then I'll apologize, and I don't mean the personal views of the board members, I mean what the NRA advocates for, you said that the NRA advocates for issues other than gun rights, and I've asked you time and again to provide proof with links that show the NRA is something other than a gun rights org..

Provide the proof w/links and I'll apologize. Seems really simple to me.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #28)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 01:47 PM

32. why is it you continue to ignore the centerpieceof my argument?

 

The NRA supported Governor Romney, who signed an assault weapons ban into law, against president Obama, who decreased gun restrictions.

Deal with that fact or apologize for wasting my time with all of your evasions.

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Response to HankyDub (Reply #32)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 01:59 PM

35. Here's what you said

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117285438#post6

So far you've provided no proof that the NRA is anything other than a single issue advocacy group.
You seem to think the proof is that their board directors are bat shit crazy repukes, so what? The views of their directors have no bearing on what the mission of the NRA is, that is to promote American gun rights.
Now if you can show me where the NRA takes a position on other issues, not the personal views of the directors, but the NRA itself, w/links to those positions, then I will apologize.

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Response to HankyDub (Reply #32)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 10:05 PM

130. As for second Admendment rights, Romeny is more pro gun than Obama.

Yes, I realize Obama has passed no gun laws in his first term. However he publicly states that he supports an assault weapon ban. I realize Romeny passed a state AWB, but he said he is now against it. He is simply appealing to his audience. In MA, gun control is is not as big of an issue as it is on the national stage. I'm confident that Romney would not have attempted to pass any gun control laws, because it would have cost him a reelection.

So on the 2nd amendment, I can see exactly why the NRA supported Romney.

I do not support an assault weapons ban, and it is my belief that Obama would try to get one passed, if he picks up enough votes in the house from the 2014 election.

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Response to HankyDub (Reply #26)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 01:32 PM

30. your proof is the personal rants of the board of directors

and do not speak for the organization when they run their mouths.
Does Sylvester Stallone speak for the Brady Campaign when he says something right wing?

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #30)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 01:46 PM

31. that is just one piece of evidence I provided

 

I also pointed to the fact that they supported a candidate for president who signed an assault weapons ban into law against a president who actually decreased weapons restrictions. This is the crucial piece of information from my point of view.

I pointed out that the NRA sponsors speakers like $arah Palin and Glenn Beck at their annual gooberfest.

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Response to HankyDub (Reply #31)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 01:52 PM

33. Now your changing.

 

You said that the NRA advocates for issues other than gun rights did you not? And I've asked several times to prove it w/ links. So let's review what you've proved so far.......................(tick tock)..................(tick tock)...................., so far, nothing. No proof w/links, nothing, meanwhile I've proved with links that the only thing the NRA advocates is gun rights.
Check and Mate. Been nice playing but you can take your marbles and go home now.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #33)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 02:01 PM

36. I said that they opposed a president who reduced restrictions on guns

 

and favored a candidate who signed an assault weapons ban into law.

There is no other conclusion to draw. If their single issue was gun rights, they would have supported Obama, or at least remained neutral. Instead they attacked the president with a neutral/pro-gun history as chief executive in favor of a candidate whose record as chief executive of MA would have disqualified him in their eyes...IF he was a democrat. But because they are just a republiklan advocacy group, the facts of these two men's records was immaterial.

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Response to HankyDub (Reply #36)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 02:03 PM

37. No,

 

you said that they were more than a single advocacy group, what other issues, besides gun rights, do they advocate for?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117285438#post6

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #37)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 02:06 PM

39. You have now avoided responding to my central point about 5 times now

 

This means you lose.

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Response to HankyDub (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 02:31 PM

42. That's funny you saying that I've failed

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117285438#post6

You haven't provided proof of what you claim and now I'm convinced that you can't provide any proof.
Have a nice day.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #42)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 02:33 PM

43. I have provided excellent evidence

 

and I know it's excellent evidence because you absolutely refuse to make any argument against it.

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Response to HankyDub (Reply #43)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 11:18 AM

85. You're not very good at this debate thing. nt

 

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