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Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:37 PM

 

Should suicides be used to forumulate firearm policy?

About 16,000 or so people kill themselves with firearms every year. Should this be a basis for regulating firearms?
21 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
Yes, suicides should be considered for forumulating firearm policy.
2 (10%)
No, suicides should not be considered for formulating firearm policy.
19 (90%)
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Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

30 replies, 2400 views

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Arrow 30 replies Author Time Post
Reply Should suicides be used to forumulate firearm policy? (Original post)
Atypical Liberal Nov 2012 OP
2pooped2pop Nov 2012 #1
rrneck Nov 2012 #2
ileus Nov 2012 #3
petronius Nov 2012 #4
slackmaster Nov 2012 #6
Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #8
slackmaster Nov 2012 #9
Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #13
slackmaster Nov 2012 #15
Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #16
-..__... Nov 2012 #10
petronius Nov 2012 #11
-..__... Nov 2012 #12
Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #14
ManiacJoe Nov 2012 #19
Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #22
Clames Nov 2012 #21
-..__... Nov 2012 #27
Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #29
slackmaster Nov 2012 #5
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #20
slackmaster Nov 2012 #25
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #24
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #26
Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #7
rrneck Nov 2012 #17
JustABozoOnThisBus Nov 2012 #23
jody Nov 2012 #18
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #28
Pacafishmate Nov 2012 #30

Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:48 PM

1. Not unless you regulate rope according to it's ability to be used

to off yourself if you so choose.

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:52 PM

2. A homeowner buys a gun in July of 2006.

By the fall of 2008 he's lost his home, his job, and all his savings. What kind of legislation would regulate that?

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:58 PM

3. People volunteer for suicide.

I've had

Mark, Travis, Zack, David,

I've had four pretty good friends that committed suicide, do I blame firearms...No.


Gang and drug related firearm use should also be deleted from consideration for regulation.



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Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:03 PM

4. How common is it - does anyone know - for a person contemplating suicide to

purchase a firearm immediately prior to the attempt? If that was a frequent pattern, I would consider a short waiting period before a first firearm purchase to be a reasonable policy. (I actually don't object to waiting periods - but they shouldn't apply if you already own firearms, and 10-15 days is too long). I might also support a policy of making suicide-awareness training available (voluntary and free) to firearms dealers...

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Response to petronius (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:35 PM

6. I don't know how common it is, but it happens. See my post below.

 

California has a mandatory 10-day wait for all firearm purchases.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:58 PM

8. A sensible policy, which probably saves a fair number of lives.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:59 PM

9. Maybe.

 

I really don't know. It certainly does no good in the case of someone who already owns one or more firearms.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:45 PM

13. True, but it might stop some spur of the moment suicides.

A old family friend recently put a gun in her mouth and pulled the trigger. She was one of the few to survive. Took out an eye, other bits and part of her brain and now she is in and out of comas. I doubt it was a new purchase, though.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:49 PM

15. How horrible. Most suicides are caused by mental health issues, speciically depression.

 

Which itself can be a symptom of a deeper problem, as was the case with my friend who took her own life early this year.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:55 PM

16. Same in my friend's case

She lost her teenage daughter to a brain tumor. Then her marriage fell apart. Very sad.

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Response to petronius (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:05 PM

10. How would a customer prove to the seller...

 

that he/she is already in possession of firearms?

Anything that hints at "registration" or a database is unacceptable.

A person bent on committing suicide could also purchase a firearm via a private/face to face sale; likewise... closing the "gunshow loophole" is also unacceptable.



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Response to -..__... (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:09 PM

11. They're portable, right? :-)

If a buyer wanted to avoid the wait, then it would be easy to bring in an existing firearm. Or, I'd say a CCW should be sufficient proof...

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Response to petronius (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:27 PM

12. CCW scheme wouldn't work...

 

if the person obtains the permit prior to their 1st firearms purchase.

Also... there are still a number of states that are "may issue" WRT to CCW permits.

Presenting a currently owned firearm would be an interesting work around.

Regardless... I would still find any waiting period objectionable.

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Response to -..__... (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:48 PM

14. Why would you find a waiting period objectionable?

Especially if such a policy might save lives. What's the hurry?

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 10:21 PM

19. To save a life, sometimes the purchase needs to be quick.

Often the restraining order needs a gun to back it up. Not always, but sometimes.

If I already own a gun, why should I have to wait to buy another?

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:03 PM

22. I never said you should

People will always be able to acquire whatever is available. Especially maniacs.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 10:44 PM

21. Might?

 

Seriously doubt that it does any such thing. Wasteful, pointless idiocy behind such laws. How about waiting periods on free speech? How about the police start kicking in doors and searching homes while you wait a few days for your 4th Amendment rights to kick in...

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:05 PM

27. For starters...

 

it's an infringement on my/our 2nd amendment rights, and it would have a negligible (if any), impact on suicide rates.

We were also down this road once before with the 87 Brady Bill as originally written.

The NRA had to go through a lot of time, trouble and money to replace the 5 day waiting period language with the current NIC's/instant background check we have today.

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Response to -..__... (Reply #27)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:15 PM

29. Blah blah blah!

It is not an infringement on any rights. What a load. Where the fuck does it say you have the right to BUY a gun?

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:32 PM

5. Not government policy. However, I had a suicide attempt in my house just under a year ago.

 

It reinforced my personal policy of keeping firearms AND dangerous drugs (e.g. prescription painkillers) locked up in my safe. The individual ended up eating a handful of one of my hypertension meds - Something that Novartis was unable to kill even small animals with during trials.

It happened on December 7, 2011. I called 911 when I discovered the situation. The police took the person to the county's psychiatric lockup. It took her 10 days to talk her way out of the hospital, so the case was covered under Section 5150, 5151, and perhaps 5152 of the California Welfare and Institutions Code. The latter two qualify as involuntary commitments, and make a person ineligible to acquire a firearm.

I had already given her notice to vacate because of her refusal to seek help for her mental illness. Had she attempted to buy a firearm after getting out of the hospital, it would have been illegal for her to do so.

Unfortunately it turned out that she had just taken possession of a firearm (after the mandatory 10-day waiting period) on the day I had her committed. While she was in the hospital I searched through her belongings and did not find the weapon. She must have had it hidden in the trunk of her car, one place I never looked.

Seven weeks later she shot herself - Not in my house, not on my watch, not with my weapon. She had survived for four months in the home of a man who owns more than 50 functional firearms and has prescriptions for multiple dangerous drugs, without having access to any of them.

I advise all gun owners to keep their weapons secure. But you can't stop a determined person from committing suicide.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 10:28 PM

20. Wow

Good advice. Thanks for sharing. Glad you got on the other side of the drama.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #20)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 08:52 AM

25. Thanks. I was in therapy for several months to help deal with the nightmares it caused.

 

It would have been far worse had she died in my home, which was her plan.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 07:42 AM

24. I'm sorry this happened, and for the pain it caused...

What is discouraging on DU is how we approach social problems amenable to government action. This forum has 4 groups: 2 are posed on the intellectually bankrupt model of prohibition; 1 is an extension of crime T.V., the other is centered on the very important, but limited range, of civil liberties.

People actually speculated on broad solutions, broad actions, broad philosophical foundations that define a party.

Now we talk about prohibition, reactive responses to civil liberties violations, and the gory details of crime.

wow.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:23 AM

26. Interesting observation

.

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:37 PM

7. Suicides should be used to forumulate a National Healthcare policy.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 09:09 PM

17. Hey, watch it.

That's a progressive idea. You're off script. That confuses the purity trolls.

Better post some gun porn or something, they're getting antsy.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:16 AM

23. +1 ... absolutely right. nt

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 09:32 PM

18. Yes suicide stats from other countries prove firearms do not cause suicides. Firearms aso do not

 

cause murder or other crimes.

Suicides per 100,000 people per year
Rank Total Country
1 31.6 Lithuania
2 31.2 South Korea
3 26.4 Guyana
4 25.6 Kazakhstan
5 25.3 Belarus
6 21.7 Hungary
7 23.8 Japan
8 17.5 Latvia
9 22.23 People's Republic of China
10 17.2 Slovenia
************************************
38 12.0 United States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:08 PM

28. No.

 

I can't think of anyone who killed themselves because guns were easily available.

They may have chosen to use a gun because they had one. But the decision to end their life was already made and separate from the availability of guns.

So no, this should be considered a mental health issue. Not a 2nd amendment one.

/from a strictly constitutional standpoint your life is yours to control. If you wish to end it that is your choice. We should not prevent people from doing this although offering assistance to dissuade them is the right thing to do.

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:58 PM

30. Suicide is a right.

 

Why would you regulate guns based off of it?

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