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Sun Nov 4, 2012, 01:16 AM

Accidental Shooting in Colorado - 14-Year-old Shooter Arrested Not the Gun Owner

SF Gate reports

A 14-year-old boy is being held at a juvenile detention center after police say his 12-year-old relative was accidentally shot at a Lakewood home.

The older boy is being held for investigation of theft and possession of a gun by a minor.

Police Detective Ryan Mckone says the boys found a handgun in the home, and the older boy accidentally fired a shot while the two were playing with the weapon. Mckone added that it appears adults were in the home at the time.

What do you suppose that means, the adults were at home? Are they saying that because they were in the home at the time it doesn't count for leaving the kids alone with an unsecured gun?

You see, this is one of the big problems in places like Colorado. Gun owners are not held responsible for the security of their weapons. When kids get hurt, the kids are blamed, which by the way puts the lie to all the talk of education and demystifying the firearms.

So, yes, I blame the parents or the gun owner. But you know who else is at fault here? It's the gun-rights fanatics who continually say things like, "there's nothing more useless than an unloaded gun," or, "when seconds count the police are minutes away."

These paranoid ideas encourage the more frightened and insecure folks to keep guns loaded and easily accessible. To their way of thinking, you never know when a band of escaped murder-rapists is going to smash in your front door leaving you only a few seconds to defend yourself.

Guns need to be safely stored under lock and key. Whenever a kid gets hurt with a gun, an adult should be in jail.

What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
Cross posted at Mikeb302000

24 replies, 1969 views

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Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply Accidental Shooting in Colorado - 14-Year-old Shooter Arrested Not the Gun Owner (Original post)
mikeb302000 Nov 2012 OP
gejohnston Nov 2012 #1
Trunk Monkey Nov 2012 #3
mikeb302000 Nov 2012 #5
PavePusher Nov 2012 #10
mikeb302000 Nov 2012 #12
PavePusher Nov 2012 #21
holdencaufield Nov 2012 #2
mikeb302000 Nov 2012 #6
holdencaufield Nov 2012 #7
mikeb302000 Nov 2012 #13
holdencaufield Nov 2012 #16
ileus Nov 2012 #4
Atypical Liberal Nov 2012 #8
mikeb302000 Nov 2012 #14
PavePusher Nov 2012 #22
Atypical Liberal Nov 2012 #23
hack89 Nov 2012 #24
slackmaster Nov 2012 #9
GreenStormCloud Nov 2012 #11
mikeb302000 Nov 2012 #15
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #17
friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #18
gejohnston Nov 2012 #19
GreenStormCloud Nov 2012 #20

Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 01:50 AM

1. the older kid committed two federal felonies

grand theft is a state crime, but possessing a stolen gun and being a minor in possession are federal crimes. Of course he should be in jail.
Colorado may or may not have a safe storage law.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 06:53 AM

3. No State safe storage law but boulder has a law that applies to "assault weapons"

 

5-8-18 Unlawful Storage of Assault Weapons.

(a) No person shall store, control, or possess any assault weapon within any premises of which that person has an ownership interest, custody, or control, in such a manner that the person knows, or has constructive knowledge, that a minor is likely to gain possession of the assault weapon and in fact does obtain possession of the assault weapon.

(b) It is a specific defense to a charge or violation of this section that:

(1) The assault weapon was located within a room or closet from which all minors were excluded by locks; or

(2) The assault weapon was stored in a locked container.

(c) It is an affirmative defense to civil negligence liability that the assault weapon was stored in a locked container.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 03:09 AM

5. The owner of the gun was irresponsible and partly to blame. nt

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 11:15 AM

10. Hard to determine that from the paucity of information in the article.

 

It's quite possible the gun was secured, and the kid was simply intelligent/(un)lucky/creative enough to get through whatever security measures were in place.

You do remember the old adage about building a better mouse-trap, yes?

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 01:47 AM

12. Yeah, the kid was probably a master safe-cracker. nt

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 08:15 AM

21. The vast majority of residential "safes" can be opened in 2-3 minutes or less....

 

with tools such as paper clips, dental picks and a screwdriver. The demonstrations are freely available on the internet.

As I previously stated, there was not enough information in the article to determine how the gun was stored.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 04:48 AM

2. Tell me ...

 

... if I steal a car and go drunk driving ... do they arrest me or the car owner?

Because if it's like you wish, I'm totally going to start stealing cars.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 03:09 AM

6. These were kids, Holden. Gun owners need to be more responsible than that. nt

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 05:21 AM

7. Kids don't steal cars?

 

Where do you live?

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #7)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 01:48 AM

13. We're talking about guns. nt

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #13)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 02:09 AM

16. No ...

 

... you were talking about the liability of law-abiding citizens when their legal property is stolen and used in illegal acts. Be it a gun, a car, a boat or a fountain pen.

Courts have established ... over, and over, and over again ... that if your property is stolen you aren't liable for what the thief does with that property.

Even in Italy.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 07:13 AM

4. Condition one is your friend.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 10:36 AM

8. Wow, I agree with MikeB!

 


Guns need to be safely stored under lock and key. Whenever a kid gets hurt with a gun, an adult should be in jail.


I agree.

Questions for you:

1) Do you think the California Department of Justice guidelines for safe firearm storage are adequate?

2) If the firearms are locked up, and the child finds the key or breaks into the safe, should the owner be held responsible?

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Reply #8)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 01:48 AM

14. yes and yes nt

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 08:17 AM

22. I know it's been said that one sign of an intelligent person....

 

is the ability to hold two opposing beliefs at the same time, but that's just ridiculous.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 08:32 AM

23. Couple of things you ought to think about.

 

1) I own a Stack-on 14-gun cabinet. It meets the CDOJ requirements for safe firearm storage.

It is nothing more than a lockable filing cabinet. It will keep inquisitive children away from the guns (which is why I bought it), but it would not slow down anyone with a prybar (or who walks out to my garage and gets my prybar or my sledgehammer my splitting maul or...). In short, it's not going to slow down a dedicated criminal. It doesn't even have a UL15 rating which is a safe that can prevent access from an attack for 15 minutes.

2) If you are going to hold someone responsible for what others do with their guns whether they lock them up or not, why would anyone bother?

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 10:10 AM

24. So you would undermine gun storage laws

by punishing people who still followed the law?

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 10:42 AM

9. Basic gun safety should be taught in public schools

 

Guns need to be safely stored under lock and key.

Yes, that too.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 07:04 PM

11. When I was eleven I had access to guns.

The kids should have been taught gun safety. I was taught gun safety and nothing happened. I shot lots of game animals and saw what my gun could do and respected it.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #11)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 01:49 AM

15. What do you think

that the thousands of kids that get shot each year or shoot others were not taught any safety rules?

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #15)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 02:18 AM

17. Sounds like this kid needs some discipline.nt

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #15)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 02:23 AM

18. No way of knowing. Some of your antigun allies don't like gun safety classes...

...so we might reasonably assume some of those underage shooters missed valuable safety lessons due to the "abstinence-only" mindset.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #15)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 02:29 AM

19. since vast majority of these kids are gangsters in cities,

no, they were not.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #15)

Tue Nov 6, 2012, 08:14 AM

20. Thousands every year?

Defining a kid as a human up to and including 12 years old, the total of all gunshot injuries, both accidental and deliberate was 1,113.

It does appear that that particular kid didn't know what he was doing.

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