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Fri Oct 26, 2012, 05:23 PM

Not having ordered a firearm on-line, could those who have done so please clarify...

the procedure, paying particular attention to:

(1) Conditiions whereby a purchaser must submit to a NICS test;

(2) Conditions whereby purchasers are NOT required to submit to a NICS test;

(3) The legal requirements the on-line service must fulfill;

(4) Conditions whereby the on-line service cannot access NICS even if it wanted to; and

(5) The ways on-line services can be required to perform a NICS or NICS-like test.
______________
This may aid visitors to this group in forming opinions about on-line purchases of firearms.

8 replies, 801 views

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Reply Not having ordered a firearm on-line, could those who have done so please clarify... (Original post)
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 OP
madeline_con Oct 2012 #1
ProgressiveProfessor Oct 2012 #3
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #5
ProgressiveProfessor Oct 2012 #8
gejohnston Oct 2012 #2
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #4
trouble.smith Oct 2012 #6
slackmaster Oct 2012 #7

Response to Eleanors38 (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 05:27 PM

1. Not having ordered a firearm on-line either.....

Doesn't it depend on the state the firearm is being shipped to?


Wait, Abe has info ...

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/how-to-guns.php

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Response to madeline_con (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 05:32 PM

3. Depends entirely on the state

If they require an FFL to do the transaction, an NICS check will be done. There may be other restrictions as well (waiting time...) If the state allow private transactions, a check NICS check cannot be done.

The ad purveyor (online or dead tree) has no responsibility and cannot run a NICS check.

NICS is limited by law to FFL holders only. That can be changed, but some antls would see it as enabling more private party sales.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #3)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 05:57 PM

5. That's interesting: If the "loophole" is closed, some of the controllers would object?

"That can be changed, but some antls would see it as enabling more private party sales."

It would be interesting to see the reasoning behind this potential development. For so long there has been vast talk about closing the so-called "gun show loophole," yet if it is, there is a school of thought among the antis that this would be a bad thing. Hmmm.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #5)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 06:37 PM

8. For some the problem is that an NICS check does not require registration

No records are made of what was purchased. No make/model/serial number recorded. Just who was checked and by whom. There is also the perception is that it would make people feel freer to sell weapons they no longer wanted/needed thus getting them out of attics and closets and back in circulation.

Contrarily, by forcing people to go through an FFL also adds costs, which most antis see as a good thing, especially in places like Wash DC where FFL dealers are quite scarce.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 05:31 PM

2. all of mine were interstate

so, I sent a copy of a FFL along with the cashiers check. Once it cleared, it shipped to the FFL. Paid my $45 "log in fee" and waited for Florida's waiting period (three business days for handguns. If you buy on Friday, you pick up on Thursday.) Three business days later, really six days because of the three day weekend, did the filled out the 4473, did the NICS, bought a box of ammo. If I had a CCW, the waiting period would be waived.
The only hassle I had once was a seller that did not ship from an FFL. My FFL was not aware of it and reported it to the ATF. My three day waiting period turned into a three week waiting period, when the ATF inspector returned his phone call and explained it was OK.

A good source for both sides:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 05:51 PM

4. So, any purchaser in, say, Texas who orders on-line, and the gun is shipped from New York...

must have a NICS test performed by the FFL at the purchaser's end of the transaction?

And a purchaser who orders from somewhere else within Texas would not and could not access NICS.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 06:24 PM

6. it isn't really purchased on line, it is transferred from one licensed seller to another

 

at the behest of a third party and then transferred to that third party who absolutely must first comply with state and federal laws and who must fill out the same paperwork and go through the same back ground checks as anyone walking into the same store and purchasing a firearm directly off the gun rack.

Private sales occurring between residents of the same state are governed by state laws. For example, here in Ohio, you are free to sell a firearm privately to another Ohio resident provided you have no reason to believe the buyer is prohibited from owning/purchasing a firearm. So, technically, if I saw an add online for a rifle or pistol that was being sold by a private citizen of my state, (private citizen meaning someone who isn't licensed by the government to sell firearms), I could contact that seller and arrange to purchase the firearm privately without going through any background check process. If however, I told the seller or even led him to believe that I was a felon, a resident of another state, schizophrenic, a non-US citizen, a drug addict, less than 18 years old (or 21 in the case of a pistol), or otherwise prohibited from owning a firearm, the seller would be violating state and federal firearms laws if he gave the gun to me.

At a minimum, a private seller should ask for a state issued ID to verify age and residency. Honestly, I might support having any firearms restrictions placed on the Ohio DL to help prevent sales to criminals.


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Response to Eleanors38 (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 06:25 PM

7. Answers depend on whether you are purchasing from an online vendor, or on an auction site

 

On an auction site you are generally purchasing from another individual who is not a federal firearms licensee. If a transfer crosses state lines or occurs within a state like California where private transfers are regulated, the firearm must be shipped to a Type 01 licensee who must conduct a background check (typically NICS.) The auction site is really not a party to the transaction. Buyer and seller are responsible for complying with all applicable state and federal laws.

If you are making a purchase from an online vendor (e.g. AIM Surplus or Cheaper Than Dirt) in your state, a background check must be performed. The vendor can do the check, or the weapon can be shipped to another FFL holder to do the check and paperwork.

If you buy from an online vendor in another state, the weapon must be shipped to a type 01 FFL in your state.

If you have a Type 03 FFL (collector of curios and relics), curio and relic firearms can be shipped direct to you with no background check, if your state law permits it.

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