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Sun Oct 21, 2012, 02:13 AM

Accidental Shooting Death of Florida Man Mistaken for a Boar - No Charges

SF Gate reports

State wildlife officials say a South Florida hunter was likely mistaken for a boar by a friend who accidentally shot and killed him.

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission officials tell The Palm Beach Post that Ernie Small Jr. likely mistook his friend Clinton Haas of Loxahatchee for a boar while they were hunting Thursday night near Jupiter.

Haas' shooting was ruled accidental, though wildlife officials say their investigation remains open.


I guess this is just a simple hunting accident with the ironic title of having been mistaken for a boar. There was another pig shooting lately, but that one wasn't so much a case of mistaken identity as simple negligence.

Like all hunting "accidents" today's story about the boar hunters requires the violation of safety rules. The shooter should be charged with a crime. It doesn't take a lengthy investigation to determine where he was at fault. The problem is the mistaken idea that accidents are somehow acceptable.

What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
Cross posted at Mikeb302000

40 replies, 3276 views

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Arrow 40 replies Author Time Post
Reply Accidental Shooting Death of Florida Man Mistaken for a Boar - No Charges (Original post)
mikeb302000 Oct 2012 OP
gejohnston Oct 2012 #1
mikeb302000 Oct 2012 #11
gejohnston Oct 2012 #16
ileus Oct 2012 #17
Submariner Oct 2012 #2
Common Sense Party Oct 2012 #3
qkvhj Oct 2012 #5
mikeb302000 Oct 2012 #34
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #9
mikeb302000 Oct 2012 #12
Remmah2 Oct 2012 #21
petronius Oct 2012 #4
mikeb302000 Oct 2012 #13
Remmah2 Oct 2012 #22
dchill Oct 2012 #6
ileus Oct 2012 #7
rl6214 Oct 2012 #8
mikeb302000 Oct 2012 #14
Remmah2 Oct 2012 #20
rl6214 Oct 2012 #26
mikeb302000 Oct 2012 #35
rl6214 Oct 2012 #40
holdencaufield Oct 2012 #15
mikeb302000 Oct 2012 #36
discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2012 #10
4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #19
discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2012 #23
ileus Oct 2012 #24
discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2012 #25
GreenStormCloud Oct 2012 #18
Logical Oct 2012 #27
ManiacJoe Oct 2012 #28
petronius Oct 2012 #29
Logical Oct 2012 #30
petronius Oct 2012 #31
Logical Oct 2012 #32
gejohnston Oct 2012 #33
petronius Oct 2012 #38
mikeb302000 Oct 2012 #37
petronius Oct 2012 #39

Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 02:20 AM

1. FWC is still investigation

there is a rarely used, kind of arcane, "excusable homicide", but I don't think that is used much in the US these days. Should it be involuntary manslaughter? You think so. That is why sound shots are bad, and the western states like Wyoming and Idaho have the right idea, you must were bright orange or red. Camo outfits like they use in the south is fucking stupid.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 01:27 AM

11. It doesn't matter if the guy's wearing a boar costume

the shooter must follow the 4 Rules of Gun Safety.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #11)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 01:59 AM

16. I didn't say otherwise

Last edited Mon Oct 22, 2012, 02:29 AM - Edit history (1)

I am saying that may or may not be manslaughter. I am also saying the media account may or may not be totally accurate. I do know enough to know that cases hinge on specific facts that happened in a short period of time. If the guy did in fact make a sound shot, that probably would be a case for manslaughter. If it had something to do with a mechanical malfunction of the rifle, then probably not.
Same thing if a kid runs out in front of you in the street. If you are withing the speed limit, not talking on your cell phone etc, it would most likely be excusable homicide or some modern term of. If you were texting or speeding, then it would be manslaughter as far as I know. Of course, your jurisdiction may vary.

One of the things that surprised me when I moved to Florida, is that the game wardens are almost as heavily armed as the regular cops. In Wyoming, I don't remember seeing a game warden wearing a pistol. Had a rifle in a gun rack and might have a pistol, but left it in the truck when stopping someone. Imagine setting up a one person road block on a dirt road in the wilderness during hunting season. You know every vehicle you stop has guns, but you leave yours in the vehicle. Last WGF officer to be murdered on duty was in 1913.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #11)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 07:03 AM

17. A boar costume may be reason to shoot.

He'd have visually ID'd the animal, it's not that common for hunters to yell out and ask if they're an actual game animal. I've never done a hands on inspection before shooting game either.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 02:22 AM

2. It's just amazing how many hunters are 'mistaken' for boar, deer, moose, goat,

bear, wolf and caribou. Boar is a new one for me, but I've read about all the other mistaken critters/hunters. Maybe these people ought to be sure what they are shooting at BEFORE pulling the trigger. That might help alleviate the problem.

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Response to Submariner (Reply #2)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 02:23 AM

3. How many hunters are victims of mistaken identity?

How widespread is this problem?

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #3)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 02:34 AM

5. Not Many

 

There are millions of hunters in our nation and a few cases of "mistaken for game" shootings each year. There are many more accidental firearm discharges that cause injury or death to other hunters or family members and even those are not prevalent. Hunters are usually more safe with their firearms than others. Most states require more safety training for hunters than for just buying or possessing a firearm.

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Response to qkvhj (Reply #5)

Tue Oct 23, 2012, 12:27 AM

34. You guys love the percentage game.

The fact is there are too fucking many and they are PREVENTABLE.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #3)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 02:11 PM

9. Profoundly few. A few years back, Texas had only ONE death

In a single season, that was one where a hunter pulled a shotgun out of his car barrel first at a dove hunt (supposedly the single greatest cause of gun-related hunting deaths). In other words, a greater danger than mistaken I.d.

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Response to Submariner (Reply #2)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 01:28 AM

12. Amen to that. nt

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Response to Submariner (Reply #2)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 10:48 AM

21. There's now mistaking the identity.

 

The OP is a boar.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 02:29 AM

4. Accidents do happen, but while shooters and hunters abhor such violations of

basic gun safety and often prefer to refer to them as negligence, it is inappropriate to criminalize them.

In any activity or area of life, a fuck-up without willful or unlawful intent is a fuck-up, not a crime...

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Response to petronius (Reply #4)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 01:29 AM

13. Negligence which results in harm or death should be a crime. nt

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #13)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 10:50 AM

22. Negligence which results in harm or death should be a crime. YES

 

But it should not be limited to firearms.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 02:47 AM

6. If a body shoot a body, huntin' in the rye...

A body is responsible for that shooting. A trigger pull is never a complete accident.
One's finger is deliberately placed on that trigger. At that point, one needs to start being careful.
That is nothing but logic.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 08:53 AM

7. Night hunting....you'd think a small LED on the cap would be smart.

Unless of course the were using night optics.

I recommend staying a team when night hunting.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 10:47 AM

8. Now mikey wants your hunting guns also

 

You need to put a PS at the bottom of every one of your posts, after your blog spamming of course that you advocate for the banning of ALL firearms, legal or like the illegal ones YOU used to own.

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Response to rl6214 (Reply #8)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 01:30 AM

14. Not true. I want gun owners to be held responsible for what they do. nt

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #14)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 10:47 AM

20. Everyone should be held responsible for what they do in life.

 

Why limit it to gun owners?

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #14)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 07:25 PM

26. Your own words from June 30, 2011

 

"Eventually, I and most of the others would conclude that no guns at all in civilian hands is the best way to go"

From this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/117276516

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Response to rl6214 (Reply #26)

Tue Oct 23, 2012, 12:28 AM

35. taken out of context. nt

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #35)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 12:23 AM

40. Put them into context

 

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Response to rl6214 (Reply #8)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 01:32 AM

15. Every gun owner ...

 

... is a "hidden criminal", according to Mike

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #15)

Tue Oct 23, 2012, 12:29 AM

36. not true, I'd guess it's only about half. nt

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 03:25 PM

10. All potential...

...accidents are potential crimes that just await the right (or wrong depending on perspective) prosecutor and jury.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #10)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 10:17 AM

19. And all people are potentially going to have an accident

 

that is potentially a crime.

Ergo all people are potential criminals.

And since juries make mistakes too we should probably not wait for their decision to treat people as criminals.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #19)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 12:28 PM

23. Not to get off track here but...

...in the realm of "accidents" some of the most serious involve pregnancy.





As I was told in high school, if you drive don't park, accidents cause people.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #23)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 01:41 PM

24. LOL....good one.

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Response to ileus (Reply #24)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 01:48 PM

25. I aim to please...

...so please aim responsibly.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 07:58 AM

18. Car accidents are violations of safety rules too.

Charge all the at-fault drivers with murder when there is a fatality.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 07:31 PM

27. I think accidentally shooting someone should be a crime way more than accidentally....

causing a wreck.

Using a gun should require a higher level of expectations.

And before you pull a trigger you need to be 100% sure what you are shooting at.

I am not talking about dropping a gun or it accidental discharges. I am talking about shooting at something and it ends up being person. There is NO excuse for that.



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Response to Logical (Reply #27)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 07:59 PM

28. Gun Safety Rule #4.

#4: Identify your target and what's behind it and what's beyond it.

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Response to Logical (Reply #27)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 08:07 PM

29. What if someone neglectfully leaves a child in a car?

What if someone neglectfully goes to sleep with a candle lit, and burns the building down?

Civil liability is fine, but absent criminal intent or a willful negligence, I'm not comfortable criminalizing mistakes - no matter how much we abhor them or what the outcome is...

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Response to petronius (Reply #29)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 08:11 PM

30. Mistakes are one thing. Shooting a deadly weapon at a person who you though was an animal is....

way worse. You knew you were firing a deadly weapon and still were clueless.

An accidental discharge is different. But pulling the trigger is a higher level of responsibility.

Unless you are a cop of course.

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Response to Logical (Reply #30)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 08:25 PM

31. If you do it on purpose it's way worse - but otherwise, no difference (nt)

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Response to petronius (Reply #31)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 08:32 PM

32. Yes a lot of difference. Guns are designed to KILL things. Cars are not. Sounds like maybe you....

do not realize guns ownership and usage demands a higher level of responsibility.

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Response to petronius (Reply #31)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 08:40 PM

33. I think what he is saying is that

making sound shots is the same as texting while driving instead of failing to stop for the kid because he moved faster than your reaction or mechanical failure.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #33)

Tue Oct 23, 2012, 01:00 AM

38. The question is not whether a shooting error is stupid, reprehensible, abhorrent, avoidable,

lamentable, etc - the question is whether it's criminal. And I will argue that if a mistake is made, without deliberation or evil intent - a shooter loses track of a buddy, misinterprets a shape, sees something that isn't there, whatever - it may be lot of things, but it's not a crime. And I'll claim that in any area, not just shooting - people err, and while they should be held responsible for their errors, the criminal system is not necessarily the place to do it...

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Response to petronius (Reply #29)

Tue Oct 23, 2012, 12:30 AM

37. It is always willful negligence to violate one or more of the 4 Rules. nt

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #37)

Tue Oct 23, 2012, 01:01 AM

39. Nonsense. People make mistakes, and it's ridiculous to claim that all mistakes are willful. (nt)

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