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Fri Oct 19, 2012, 11:48 AM

 

12-year-old girl shoots home invader

http://m.news9.com/story.aspx?story=19858704&catId=112032

"It happened on Wednesday when the girl was home alone. She told police a stranger rang the doorbell, then went around to the back door and kicked it in. She called her mom, Debra St. Clair, who told her to get the family gun, hide in a closet and call 911.

...

The during that time, the intruder made his way through the house. St. Clair's daughter told deputies the man came into the room where she was hiding and began to open up the closet door. That was when the 12-year-old had to make a life-saving decision."


Without firearms every victim of violent crime has three choices: run away if you are fast enough, submit to your attacker if you are tough enough, or fight if you are strong enough.

Thankfully this kid had an alternative that many people here would deny her.

37 replies, 3617 views

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Arrow 37 replies Author Time Post
Reply 12-year-old girl shoots home invader (Original post)
Atypical Liberal Oct 2012 OP
ileus Oct 2012 #1
patricia92243 Oct 2012 #2
ileus Oct 2012 #4
PavePusher Oct 2012 #5
GreenStormCloud Oct 2012 #6
bluerum Oct 2012 #3
Jenoch Oct 2012 #35
bluerum Oct 2012 #37
GreenStormCloud Oct 2012 #7
sharkman25 Oct 2012 #9
sharkman25 Oct 2012 #8
Clames Oct 2012 #10
former-republican Oct 2012 #11
safeinOhio Oct 2012 #12
gejohnston Oct 2012 #13
safeinOhio Oct 2012 #15
AtheistCrusader Oct 2012 #23
safeinOhio Oct 2012 #27
former-republican Oct 2012 #14
aikoaiko Oct 2012 #16
Atypical Liberal Oct 2012 #17
safeinOhio Oct 2012 #18
Atypical Liberal Oct 2012 #19
safeinOhio Oct 2012 #20
gejohnston Oct 2012 #21
safeinOhio Oct 2012 #25
gejohnston Oct 2012 #30
Jenoch Oct 2012 #36
AtheistCrusader Oct 2012 #24
4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #34
Decoy of Fenris Oct 2012 #26
safeinOhio Oct 2012 #28
Decoy of Fenris Oct 2012 #29
safeinOhio Oct 2012 #31
4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #33
AtheistCrusader Oct 2012 #22
4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #32

Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 11:52 AM

1. But...Guns are bad news for Children and Women...I read it here earlier this week.

http://www.newson6.com/story/19858704/12-year-old-girl-shoots-intruder-during-home-invasion

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A glock that went boom the right way.

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 11:54 AM

2. Sounds like an Urban Legand to me. n/t

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Response to patricia92243 (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 11:55 AM

4. You're right....

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Response to patricia92243 (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 12:11 PM

5. Ummm... did you miss the direct link to the actual news report? n/t

 

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Response to patricia92243 (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 01:04 PM

6. Not at all. It happens from time to time that a child shoots an intruder. N/T

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 11:55 AM

3. If he comes in the back, I go out the front and call 911.

Of course I grab Mr. .45acp on the way out.

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Response to bluerum (Reply #3)

Tue Oct 23, 2012, 12:51 PM

35. How do you know the

intruder is alone and does not have an accomplice at the front of the house?

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #35)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:58 PM

37. I don't. But I would avoid the sure threat. And I would be armed and skittish.

Two bad guys constitutes disparity of force and I would be much more inclined fire at a second intruder if they moved toward me. Otherwise I find a quite corner and make my phone call.

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 01:12 PM

7. The girl made a mistake.

She fired throught the closet door as he started to open it. She should have waited until she could see him clearly. When shooting through a door you have no positively identified your target. It could have been a cop who wasn't bright enough to announce himself, or a neighbor come to help. See the target first, then shoot.

Also, there is the chance of missing or giving the intruder a very minor flesh wound, and angering him. While it is true that most intruders will run away at the first shot, there is the chance that he may want to attack. Wait until you have a clear target and don't miss.

Everything worked out OK this time, but in such a situation you want everything working for you that you can.

Credit to the parents for teaching her how to shoot the gun and trusting her with access to it.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 01:53 PM

9. She made no mistake at all. She knew it was the intruder that kicked in the door.

 

She also knew that when seconds count, police are minutes away.

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 01:52 PM

8. Glad this girl had the "resources" to defend herself. I love wondering what...

 

went throught that intruder's mind in the seconds after he realized he had been shot.

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Response to sharkman25 (Reply #8)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:10 PM

10. If she had had a little training the answer might be...

 

..."bullet"...

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 10:29 PM

11. poor kid

 

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 10:29 PM

12. For under a hundred bucks that back door

could have been secured against getting kicked in. No blood to clean up or long therapy session and nightmares.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #12)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 11:05 PM

13. what device is this

and would it be a problem if the house is a rental?

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #13)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 07:15 AM

15. There are a bunch of different types.

Here is just one. Google it.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xabhth_door-security-pro-nothing-gets-thro_lifestyle

By just adding 3 inch screw, for less than a five bucks, to the striker plate and hinges is a start, even if a rental. There are several metal plates that can be installed with a few screws that beef up the jam. Add a motion light. Most invaders will move on to the easy one.

More on the one in the video. $70 to $100 and easy to install, doubt any landlord would even know you did it. There are companies that make them even cheaper.
http://www.doorsecuritypro.com/index.html

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #15)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 01:28 AM

23. I could still kick that down.

Might take a few extra kicks. but it ain't gonna stop me, if I want something on the other side of that door bad enough.

So, while I AGREE that it is a cost effective and worthwhile deterrent, it is not going to be 100% effective. A second line of defense is prudent, when your perimeter security fails.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #23)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 08:19 AM

27. I would suggest, while not 100% effective, it

might be way more effective than a 12 year old girl with a shotgun on the phone with mom. In that case there is the chance mom doesn't get the call thru, the child doesn't operate the weapon correctly, the weapon is taken from the 12 year old and used on her or a hundred other things that can go wrong.

Even if you do kick in the door after many tries, the extra commotion would help alert the victim, making sure defensive action is a greater possibility. I'd more than agree with " A second line of defense is prudent", as long as it is not your ONLY line of defense.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #12)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 12:26 AM

14. The only victim here is the little girl

 

This is a terrible story but as we both know it could have ended with the little girls life.

You can try to secure doors , windows but a man that kicks in a back door and looks for the little girl in the closet is not a typical burglary.

This is pure evil .

I'm glad it turned out the way it did.

edit
reread the story and perhaps he thought no one was home.
either way I'm glad it ended the way it did.



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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #12)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 09:56 AM

16. Perhaps you should promote legislation to regulate door hardware.


This could be your thing.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #12)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 10:41 AM

17. Sure, but who lives like that?

 

Most of the houses in this neighborhood, including mine, are full of glass. Full-length glass windows, glass doors.

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Reply #17)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 07:27 PM

18. No problem

AT Lowes you can buy stick on window alarms for $8.OO each. Those along with motion lights work.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #18)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 08:59 PM

19. I don't think the girl had any problem knowing someone was kicking in the door. n/t

 

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Reply #19)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 09:06 PM

20. But, the person kicking in the door,

most likely thought no one was home and he could easily enter and steal stuff without drawing attention and get away with it. The article never said he was armed. I'd guess, any roadblocks, like it being hard and noisy to enter would have deterred him and he would have gone away.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #20)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 11:38 PM

21. I honestly doubt that

According to the news anchor, he was arrested for abducting a 17 year old girl a few months ago.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #21)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 07:03 AM

25. If you watched the video in post #15

of the guy not being able to kick in the door, that along with outside lights coming on, I still think he would have left.

Remember that post was in answer to your question about what device for under a $100 would that be. I answered that so you dropped it and picked a different line to follow. What's up with that?

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #25)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 11:47 AM

30. this case happened during the day

I asked, you answered, I thought cool worth checking out. He might have, but he wasn't there for the TV an silver.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #25)

Tue Oct 23, 2012, 12:56 PM

36. Of course homeowners should

secure their houses. I don't believe you'll get any arguments about that. Yes, it would have been better had this incident not occurred. But it did. The girl did what she had to do to protect herself.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #20)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 01:29 AM

24. That totally explains why he went looking for her in the closet.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #18)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 02:35 PM

34. And those alarms teleport the police there

 

upon activation within a second? Wow. For 8 bucks that's a great deal.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #12)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 07:32 AM

26. Your arguments in this subthread are all hanging by one very narrow, unreliable thread:

The application of extrapolation of personal behavior to a desired end without indication or evidence that your extrapolation would hold true.

"No blood to clean up or long therapy session and nightmares." (Post 12)

This supposes that in the event the invader did not find himself capable of entering through a secured door, that said invader would not find alternative means of entry. Likewise, your supposition neglects another factor; that of the family. The most barred and guarded of entry points in a home is most easily undone by someone simply failing in due diligence to secure that door and all other doors like it. When you state that there would be no blood or therapy, you are assuming that the family would never once fail to secure all possible points of entry. There is no evidence pointing towards or away from this supposition, and it is an assumption only. The door may well "could" have been secured, but the truth of the matter is that it wasn't.



"AT Lowes you can buy stick on window alarms for $8.OO each. Those along with motion lights work." (Post 18)

I have attempted to verify this claim with any published statistics, but I admit that I was unable to do so in the brief period I was willing to devote to it. Can you give any statistics on said defensive measures halting ongoing aggressive breaking and entering?


"I'd guess, any roadblocks, like it being hard and noisy to enter would have deterred him and he would have gone away." (Post 20)

Smash and Grab opportunistic burglars are not deterred by noise nor difficulty of entrance. This is characteristically a hallmark of an amateur or semi-pro burglar, and there is a reason such burglars are classified as "Smash and Grab": They break, enter, take, and leave, normally also leaving a path of destruction in their wake. There is no attempted stealth entry, simply destruction and theft. "Hard" and "Noisy" do not deter these types of criminals in the least (as that is their MO), and less than 15% of them are ever caught. Appropriately, I do not believe that your above statement is true. However, I am willing to discuss it further.



"If you watched the video in post #15

of the guy not being able to kick in the door, that along with outside lights coming on, I still think he would have left.

Remember that post was in answer to your question about what device for under a $100 would that be. I answered that so you dropped it and picked a different line to follow. What's up with that?" (Post 25)


Again, your basis for the safety of a 12 year old child is based on "thinking" that a criminal will leave. I have offered that your "thoughts" on the matter are currently incorrect and are almost exclusively hinging on the misguided notion that burglars, when met with even the smallest of inconveniences, will give up their criminal activity and move on. Do you have any evidence, and I do mean -any- evidence (willing to accept "dubious" sources at this point) that your argument holds water? Or is it all false extrapolation?

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Response to Decoy of Fenris (Reply #26)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 08:49 AM

28. The FBI does little, if any

stats on home invasions or on home security. However, it also does none on home defense on sub teenagers success with fire arms.

Stats by security companies are mostly bull. I would rely on security experts that are not tied to any product as being the most informed. While it seems impossible for me to provide any facts on the success of home security measure, it is just as hard to prove the opposite. So, pick your own measure of home security.

It is not my "misguided notion that burglars, when met with even the smallest inconveniences, will give up their criminal activity", my notion is that as inconveniences and the chances of being caught or injured or killed increase, so do the chances that the criminal will move on also do. Now if you have any evidence, even dubious that any form of home security doesn't deter criminals at all to show your argument holds water, or isn't just an argument for arguments sake, go ahead.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #28)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 09:03 AM

29. You made the claim that home defense installations will deter a crime in progress.

I cannot prove that false. Likewise, I cannot prove that something doesn't happen in any quantity. I was genuinely relying on you to supply the statistics and the data, because otherwise, the claim you offer cannot be proven.

Let's change the framing of the debate, at least for the moment, given the nature of the point in prior contention.

You say you "think" that a burglar would be hampered by home defense. Why? There are no statistics, there are no numbers, no facts, no -anything- to back up that thought process other than your personal inference. By the admission of some "home defense" agencies, the primary benefit to home defense installations is NOT to halt a burglary in process, but to deter potential burglaries in the future. The only study I could find, done from 2001 to 2005, indicated that only in dense concentrations among multiple groupings of homes did home defense systems have any impact on burglaries. That same study goes on to state that a house with home defenses, when isolated among groups of houses without similar devices, were equally as likely to suffer from burglary or larceny as the undefended homes.


To be short and sweet: One defense system offers no protection. An entire community of defense systems is a "Do Not Disturb" sign to burglars. Keep in mind, we're talking genuine security systems, not just added screws and a reinforced plate.

You're trying to put me in a position to disprove a sentiment that you have expressed, when it is impossible for me to do either. I am simply asking you to substantiate your view with any data whatsoever.

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Response to Decoy of Fenris (Reply #29)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 01:06 PM

31. Sorry, no data found either way.

There does seem to be data that shows a loaded gun in a house with children is more of a danger to the children than not having one.

I personally have both with no children in the home. No break ins or other crimes at my house. A house across the street has and he only has a guns in the house with no other forms of security. In fact a few years ago his teenage kid showed a bunch of his friends his dad's gun and a week later the house was broken into and all of his guns stolen. Another point of a home security plan is that it is there when you are not home.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #12)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 02:33 PM

33. I doubt any house can be made 100% safe against intruders

 

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 01:27 AM

22. You forgot number 4

Hide.

Of course, that option didn't avail the plucky victim in this case.
Would have been better off for the intruder if he'd failed to find her.

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Original post)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 02:32 PM

32. She didn't have any beans?

 

Clearly this sociopath enticed this person to invade her home when she was alone so she could get her rocks off by executing him.

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