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Thu Oct 18, 2012, 07:18 AM

Pennsylvania Getting Tougher on Straw Purchasing in a Bumbling Sort of Way

Philly.com reports

PEOPLE WHO BUY guns and then hand them over to criminals could soon face a mandatory five-year prison sentence, thanks to a bill passed unanimously by the state Senate Wednesday.

The bill would create a five-to-10-year sentence for any offender convicted of making multiple "straw purchases" of guns. It passed overwhelmingly in the state House last year and now goes to Gov. Corbett, who is expected to sign it into law.

Straw purchasing - buying a gun for a person who can't legally buy one because of a criminal record - drew attention last month after authorities determined that the gun used to kill Plymouth Township Police Officer Bradley Fox had been illegally purchased. The man who officials say bought that gun is accused of buying eight others for the cop's alleged shooter, Andrew Thomas, in a four-month period.

In Philadelphia, guns were used to commit more than 80 percent of the city's homicides in 2011, and more than 3,000 illegal guns were recovered by police during the same time period, according to the District Attorney's Office.

This is good, we should definitely take gun crimes like straw purchasing more seriously, but I'm afraid it doesn't go far enough. The only people caught up in this are the rare cases when a gun which is used in a serious crime is traced back to the original buyer. Thanks to the NRA and the gun-rights fanatics who oppose any and all laws, tracing guns back to original buyers is not that easy.

I have a better plan. Straw Purchasing - The Solution. It works like this.

Any gun purchaser must be licensed and each weapon bought must be registered to him.

The registration document and firearm must be presented to the local police after three months from purchase and each year thereafter in order to receive a stamp allowing continuance of the legal registration.

Failure to present oneself will result in issuance of an arrest warrant.

Now, that's the way to stop straw purchasing. The combination of licensing owners and registering weapons as well as stiffer sentencing for straw purchasing will put an end to it.

What do you think? Please leave a comment.
Cross posted at Mikeb302000

49 replies, 3804 views

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Arrow 49 replies Author Time Post
Reply Pennsylvania Getting Tougher on Straw Purchasing in a Bumbling Sort of Way (Original post)
mikeb302000 Oct 2012 OP
hack89 Oct 2012 #1
ileus Oct 2012 #2
glacierbay Oct 2012 #3
mikeb302000 Oct 2012 #16
MicaelS Oct 2012 #21
glacierbay Oct 2012 #39
Clames Oct 2012 #43
4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #48
swayne Oct 2012 #4
holdencaufield Oct 2012 #5
mikeb302000 Oct 2012 #17
holdencaufield Oct 2012 #18
friendly_iconoclast Oct 2012 #34
Common Sense Party Oct 2012 #47
pipoman Oct 2012 #41
glacierbay Oct 2012 #6
mikeb302000 Oct 2012 #22
holdencaufield Oct 2012 #35
glacierbay Oct 2012 #38
PavePusher Oct 2012 #15
Tuesday Afternoon Oct 2012 #46
Atypical Liberal Oct 2012 #7
mikeb302000 Oct 2012 #23
gejohnston Oct 2012 #26
friendly_iconoclast Oct 2012 #36
glacierbay Oct 2012 #40
Atypical Liberal Oct 2012 #42
rl6214 Oct 2012 #8
gejohnston Oct 2012 #9
discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2012 #10
ManiacJoe Oct 2012 #11
slackmaster Oct 2012 #12
Common Sense Party Oct 2012 #13
Glaug-Eldare Oct 2012 #14
holdencaufield Oct 2012 #19
mikeb302000 Oct 2012 #24
holdencaufield Oct 2012 #25
friendly_iconoclast Oct 2012 #37
Glaug-Eldare Oct 2012 #27
holdencaufield Oct 2012 #28
Glaug-Eldare Oct 2012 #29
holdencaufield Oct 2012 #30
holdencaufield Oct 2012 #31
AtheistCrusader Oct 2012 #20
petronius Oct 2012 #32
Francis Marion Oct 2012 #33
YllwFvr Oct 2012 #44
friendly_iconoclast Oct 2012 #45
drhobo Oct 2012 #49

Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 08:22 AM

1. Unconstitutional infringement on my privacy - it is none of the government's business

and just where do you plan to come with the billions needed to implement and run such a scheme? Go look at Canada's colossal failure at a gun registry first.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 08:24 AM

2. Glad I live in America.

No kings here.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 08:29 AM

3. You're quite the little authoritarian aren't you?

 

This is just another of your pathetic attempts at firearms registration. After this, then what Mikey? Bans and confiscation which registration would make a whole lot easier.
You're already on record as eventual civilian ownership ban of handguns. This will never fly in this country, maybe in Italy if that's where you really are, I have my doubts on that.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #3)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 12:34 AM

16. You're a cop and you're calling me authoritarian?

Bwahahahahahahaha

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #16)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 12:54 AM

21. Why not? People like you make it clear that..

You only want law enforcement and the military to have guns. Despite the fact that you and your prohibitionist fellows will then turn right around and regularly accuse law enforcement and the military of being racist, sexist, homophobic and fascist.

And lest you think that law enforcement and the military will not turn on the Left, I remind you of the actions of the Chicago Police during the Democratic Convention of 1968, the actions of the National Guard at Kent State, and the recent actions of Police almost everywhere during OWS.

Given the fact that the military is now all volunteer, and largely conservative, some of them just might turn their guns on the Left if we ever have another Revolution or Civil War.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #16)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:06 AM

39. I'm a hell of a lot more tolerant than you are.

 

I also seem to be a hell of a lot more progressive than your are.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #16)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 09:35 AM

43. Aparently Mikey has little respect for LEO's too.

 

Seems to have issues all around....

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #16)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 12:23 AM

48. Police are not the hallmark of an authoritarian state

 

Authoritarian states have police, but then so do free ones.

A willingness to remove human rights without a trial is the hallmark of an authoritarian however.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 08:31 AM

4. I agree and would add....If someone has a gun in public, they had BETTER have the license with them

 

Mandatory 2 year sentence if you get caught with a gun and don't have the license on your person...


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Response to swayne (Reply #4)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 08:37 AM

5. Where in the US Constitution does it say ...

 

" the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed except if they aren't carrying their license"?

What is the mandatory jail sentence for driving your car while not carrying your license?

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #5)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 12:37 AM

17. Like your masters, the NRA spin doctors taught you

you conveniently leave off the "militia" part of the Amendment. You do that because you know it makes the whole thing anachronistic and meaningless, in spite of the bastardization of it that's taken place over the last few decades.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #17)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 12:38 AM

18. I'm an American ...

 

... I don't have a master. I'm a free man. Shame about the Italians.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #18)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 02:44 AM

34. "Shame about the Italians." Or Oregonians, as the case may be.

Nice state, but they do have to put up with the Persons' Secular Disarmament Union, otherwise known as CeaseFire Oregon...

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #34)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 12:09 AM

47. Or Valhallans? Shame about them, too.

That Odin is quite the authoritarian.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #17)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:14 AM

41. Too bad about your

reading comprehension disability..and your lack of historical context comprehension..it's a real shame..asked, answered, here and by SCOTUS..the entire SCOTUS that is..

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Response to swayne (Reply #4)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 08:41 AM

6. Bullshit

 

The govt. has no business knowing what firearms law abiding citizens possess, none at all.
You do know that 4 states have constitutional carry don't you? No license required and other states are moving towards it.
Mandatory 2 year sentence for maybe forgetting your license? How fucking stupid, yeah, let's make criminals out of people who may have had an ooops moment, that's fucking brilliant.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #6)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 01:10 AM

22. "an ooops moment?"

That sounds perfect for you officer glacier. How often do you have "ooops moments?" No wonder you don't like my one strike you're out ideas.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #22)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 02:46 AM

35. Mike morphs into Bong Bong ...

 

... it was inevitable.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #22)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:03 AM

38. I've never had an ooops moment with my firearms Mikey

 

but I sure as hell don't condemn someone who has had a minor one nor do I believe that they should be punished by your stupid one strike and your out proposal.

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Response to swayne (Reply #4)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 05:27 PM

15. May I please see your First, Fourth, Thirteenth and Twenty-Fourth Amendment Licences?

 

How about a two year mandatory prison sentence if you get caught exercising those Constitutional Rights and don't have the license on your person...


Or should I just vomit on your shoes now?


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Response to PavePusher (Reply #15)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 09:18 PM

46. talk about projectile vomiting - that would be awesome.

I mean really.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 09:07 AM

7. Registration of firearms and/or owners is a non-starter.

 

Any gun purchaser must be licensed and each weapon bought must be registered to him.

The registration document and firearm must be presented to the local police after three months from purchase and each year thereafter in order to receive a stamp allowing continuance of the legal registration.

Failure to present oneself will result in issuance of an arrest warrant.



Any "solution" that involves giving the government a list of firearm owners is a non-starter.

You can stop the sale of firearms to individuals who cannot legally own them very simply:

Issue FOID cards to everyone who applies for a state-issued ID, unless they opt out.

If you sell a gun privately, you must keep a record of the sale for 3 years. If a gun is traced back to you within that time frame, then you face steep penalties. No one is likely to want to sell to a non-FOID holder out of fear that it will be used and traced back to them.

You solve the straw purchaser problem, and you preserve anonymous firearm ownership.

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 01:15 AM

23. Why is that a non-starter?

You don't really believe there would follow gun confiscations. You're not that stupid. In the USA, with it's history and tradition of gun ownership, which distinguishes it from other countries you always compare us to, it could never happen, Even if the 2A were repealed and all guns were registered it could not happen here. You're not paranoid enough to think other wise.

No, your problem is you just don't like being told what to do. Like an rebellious adolescent, you resent legitimate authority.

It's time to grow up. Gun control is coming.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #23)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 01:25 AM

26. It actually happened in California

with registration and New Orleans without registration. No, they didn't take guns away from the rich and upper middle class white people.

No, your problem is you just don't like being told what to do. Like an rebellious adolescent, you resent legitimate authority.
So, which do you hate more, guns or the Enlightenment? It really sounds like you would be one of the conservatives moving the Canada during the revolution.

Gun control is coming.
It has always been here since the founding. I don't think there has been no regulation at all.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #23)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 03:09 AM

36. You are either remarkably ignorant about the subject you pontificate on, or you're being untruthful.

Which is it?

It damn well DID happen here, at least twice- In New Orleans and California. One needn't be Sergei Brin to have found the following:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/national/nationalspecial/08cnd-storm.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


September 8, 2005
New Orleans Begins Confiscating Firearms as Water Recedes
By ALEX BERENSON and TIMOTHY WILLIAMS

NEW ORLEANS, Sept. 8 - Waters were receding across this flood-beaten city today as police officers began confiscating weapons, including legally registered firearms, from civilians in preparation for a mass forced evacuation of the residents still living here.

No civilians in New Orleans will be allowed to carry pistols, shotguns or other firearms, said P. Edwin Compass III, the superintendent of police. "Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons," he said.

But that order apparently does not apply to hundreds of security guards hired by businesses and some wealthy individuals to protect property. The guards, employees of private security companies like Blackwater, openly carry M-16's and other assault rifles. Mr. Compass said that he was aware of the private guards, but that the police had no plans to make them give up their weapons....










And that is why people like you can't be trusted any farther than we can throw you- we can't believe anything out of your mouths more debatable than "the Sun will most likely rise in the east tomorrow"

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #23)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:12 AM

40. Gun control has always been here

 

just not like you want or desire.
Time to grow up? Pot, meet kettle. Nationwide registration is a non starter in this country and I fully support that, the govt. has no business knowing what firearms the citizens possess, none whatsoever.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #23)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 09:33 AM

42. Because gun-owners won't allow it, for starters.

 

Why is that a non-starter?

For starters, gun-owners won't allow it. Worse come to worst, they won't obey it. I won't, I can tell you that much. The day they pass a law that says I have to register my firearms with the government is the day I become a criminal.

You don't really believe there would follow gun confiscations. You're not that stupid. In the USA, with it's history and tradition of gun ownership, which distinguishes it from other countries you always compare us to, it could never happen, Even if the 2A were repealed and all guns were registered it could not happen here. You're not paranoid enough to think other wise.

It has already happened in the United States. In California, many residents had registered their SKS rifles with the state. The state then decided that these would not be allowed, and confiscated them with no compensation to the owners.

No, your problem is you just don't like being told what to do. Like an rebellious adolescent, you resent legitimate authority.

What I don't like is an over-reaching government that abridges my Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. A right that was enumerated as a last resort to keep the power of that government in check. Giving that government a list of the people able to do that directly undermines the intent of the second amendment.

It's time to grow up. Gun control is coming.

You keep holding your breath, Baldr.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 09:20 AM

8. What do I think?

 

Your gun registration law sucks, just like every other idea you come up with but I will give you credit on this one, at least you had the guts to post it here this time instead of just posting the link to your blog. But it still sucks.

"Now, that's the way to stop straw purchasing. The combination of licensing owners and registering weapons"

NO, that's a way to complete registration and eventually an outright ban, just like the UN wants.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 09:53 AM

9. why not simply turn them over to the feds?

straw purchasing is already a federal crime.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #9)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:03 AM

10. Do you mean to tell me...

...that we don't need a new law and a media campaign? We already have a law that makes not only murdering with a gun but that we also have a law that makes acquiring a gun via straw purchase illegal? Well why doesn't that law work? If we need a new law how do we know that the new one will work?

Gasp! Could it be that control is a just a myth and that criminals don't obey laws? We are doomed.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 11:29 AM

11. It is another feel-good law.

The problem is not that the sentences are too low. The problem is that straw purchasers are not prosecuted.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 11:37 AM

12. As to your proposed "solution..."

 

Fuck that noise. We don't require people to have a license to exercise any other civil right.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 11:44 AM

13. BALDR ODINSON HAS SPOKEN! So let it be written! So let it be done!

So let the massive new bureaucracy be established throughout the land, in states and municipalities that are already broke and police departments that are already woefully understaffed!

Silence their cries and complaints! BALDR COMMANDS IT!

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #13)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 04:25 PM

14. As you believe, so shall you do, so shall you do

Last edited Fri Oct 19, 2012, 01:27 AM - Edit history (1)



As you believe, so shall you do, so shall you do, as you believe, so shall you do, so shall you do...

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Response to Glaug-Eldare (Reply #14)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 12:39 AM

19. Creepy ...

 

Where is the from? It looks familiar.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #19)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 01:17 AM

24. Thats Star Trek TOS. You're too young to remember it. nt

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Response to mikeb302000 (Reply #24)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 01:25 AM

25. Isn't "Star Trek" ...

 

... that show with Scott Bakula?

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #25)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 03:13 AM

37. Heh. What you did there...

...I see it.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #19)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 01:25 AM

27. Star Trek, Season 3, Episode 5, "And the Children Shall Lead"

wherein the Gorgan (pictured) manipulates a small band of children into taking over the Enterprise with amazing mind powers. It is widely considered one of worst episodes. At one point in the episode, the Gorgan gives instructions to the children, ending his motivational session by repeating the phrase, "as you believe, so shall you do, so shall you do."

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Response to Glaug-Eldare (Reply #27)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 01:31 AM

28. Worse than ...

 

... this?



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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #28)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 01:39 AM

29. I don't care what anyone says,

I enjoyed Spock's Brain a lot. It was plenty silly, but it had an interesting conflict (race against the clock to do the impossible) and the Eymorgs were nice to look at. Not as cute as Yeoman Colt, though.



Uh, and, um, I think MD law should allow private sellers of regulated phasers to do background checks at local police stations as well as MSP stations and FFLs. Get rid of the waiting period, too. That's my plan for expanding 2A rights while still working to keep guns out of the wrong hands and prevent straw purchasing. So this is on-topic.

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Response to Glaug-Eldare (Reply #29)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 02:03 AM

30. Phasers don't kill people ...

 



Klingons do ...

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Response to Glaug-Eldare (Reply #29)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 02:04 AM

31. When I was 10 ...

 

... THIS is why I wanted to be an astronaut ...



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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 12:50 AM

20. Fuck that noise.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 02:29 AM

32. So that would be ~75 million additional transactions per year down at the police station,

plus whatever time and expense was required to deal with all those warrants? Sounds like an extremely expensive and inefficient solution - one designed more to create hassle and disincentive for gun owners than it is to address straw purchasers. So no, your plan is nowhere close to "better"...

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 02:32 AM

33. Your police state is going to be fun.

You could take a tourist trip to North Korea to see how it's going to be.

You need police permission to travel out of town.

Government permission (which you have to buy!) NOT to show up for work.

Government permission to live, die, eat, fornicate...

Why not just be content to live in a free country- do not begrudge us our Freedom, even if you despise it.

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Response to mikeb302000 (Original post)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 02:58 AM

44. registration of firearms is illegal in Pa

18 Pa.C.S. 6111.4: Registration of firearms

Notwithstanding any section of this chapter to the contrary, nothing in this chapter shall be construed to allow any government or law enforcement agency or any agent thereof to create, maintain or operate any registry of firearm ownership within this Commonwealth. For the purposes of this section only, the term "firearm" shall include any weapon that is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any such weapon.

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Response to YllwFvr (Reply #44)

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 04:24 PM

45. Our Mikey/Jason/Baldr seems to have hit the daily double of factual inaccuracy...

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Response to YllwFvr (Reply #44)

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 05:53 PM

49. and yet they have the straw buyer identified.

 

Without a restrictive and expensive registration system.

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