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Tue Oct 16, 2012, 10:29 PM

BIG MISTAKE....Obama said "ban" when talking about guns... He just proved the NRA right..ON LIVE TV

This WILL cost him many many, votes here....

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Reply BIG MISTAKE....Obama said "ban" when talking about guns... He just proved the NRA right..ON LIVE TV (Original post)
virginia mountainman Oct 2012 OP
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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 10:29 PM

1. OH NO

BRAPPPFFFFTTTTT

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 10:30 PM

2. what the fuck?

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 10:30 PM

3. Said 'ban' WHAT?

Does THAT matter?

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 10:30 PM

4. assault weapons

BAN!

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 10:31 PM

5. Are those actual votes that might have gone his way before that?

Where I live (gun country in PA), all those votes were already going the other way.

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Response to enough (Reply #5)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 10:42 PM

7. Yes...

I have done lots of ground work for Democrats in Virginia in the past, Obama's record on Gun as president was VERY GOOD. That and the fact that most of the Democrats here in Virginia, tend to be very pro gun, had at least took the gun issue off the table.. Yes, our parties past mistakes on this issue DID cost us a lot of support, and that support had began to trickle back when Obama took office, and actually signed some pro gun bills...


But what you MUST understand is that to a LARGE number of folks in most of the US as a whole, guns is a "make or break" issue, just like abortion rights... If you don't agree on this issue, they simply do not care about the rest of your agenda. That comment on live TV, saw lots of TV's click off all across the US as soon as that topic was overwith.

And the president just stated on LIVE TV that he wanted to ban the MOST POPULAR RIFLES in America.....

The NRA has 4,300,000 DUES PAYING members... The Brady Campaign has under 28,000 mailing list subscribers....

WHAT DO YOU STAND TO GAIN by paying lip service to Brady? What do you stand to LOSE by pissing off an active, organization, with well over 4.3 million members that must PAY to be a part of it???

Think about it..

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Response to virginia mountainman (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 03:58 PM

49. Thanks for an interesting post, but you are certainly putting words in

my mouth. I said nothing at all about Brady, or the NRA. Simply observing the situation in my neighborhood.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 07:54 PM

62. Ridiculous

He never once said any thing about Brady?

But YOU said the Democratic Presidential candidate is WRONG.

No comparison.

ANYONE SAYING THE PRESIDENT MADE A BIG MISTAKE SHOULD THINK HOW THEY ARE HELPING ROMNEY.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #62)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:11 PM

67. Telling the truth isn't helping Romney.

 

Duh....

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Response to Clames (Reply #67)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:17 PM

69. YOUR TRUTH IS NOT BETTER THAN OBAMA'S WHO IS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT





Are you calling Obama a liar?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #69)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:31 PM

78. YOU DON'T DECIDE WHOSE TRUTH IS BETTER.

 

You also don't get to shove lies in my mouth. Go take walk and leave your caps lock button alone...

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Response to Clames (Reply #78)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:34 PM

81. NO- THAT'S YOUR JOB

I support the President's position on guns.

You don't.

You undermine his election by doing so.

THAT is my truth about YOU.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #81)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:00 PM

101. Again with the purity test?

 

Dissent is healthy.

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #101)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:32 PM

173. We do attract the self-appointed zampolits, don't we?

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #173)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:47 PM

177. "zampolits"?! At the risk (hell, utter certainty) of Godwining myself into oblivion...

 

I keep getting visions of (with all due homonymic-irony) Röhm-Putsch.

Not to be tolerated. Ever.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #81)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:19 PM

109. Laughable.

 

I don't undermine the President one bit. Those like you who take anachronistic positions on gun-control hurt the Democratic party as a whole. Your truth is not THE truth thankfully. Your truth =

Have a nice day.

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Response to Clames (Reply #109)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:23 PM

111. Got It

Translation: You oppose the position of the President on guns and accuse me of undermining the party lead by that President because I agree with the President on guns and you don't.

That's laughable!

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #111)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:34 PM

117. You got nothing.

 

Translation: You don't comprehend what is written in very plain language without distorting it to fit your narrow world view. I support the Democratic party as a whole which is bigger and more important than one individual. The President should be focusing on that and shouldn't risk anything on worthless, ineffective legislation like the AWB proved to be, everyone who calls themselves a Democrat should share that focus. You don't.

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Response to Clames (Reply #117)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:44 PM

122. Worthless and Ineffective

Call the President's position on AWB 'Worthless and Ineffective'.

You simply undermine him and our party.......not me.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #122)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:09 PM

131. You just can't get right can you.

 

I stated the AWB was "worthless and ineffective" legislation. Nothing about the President in that. You are too predictable and transparent to get away with spins like that. Simply too obvious...

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Response to Clames (Reply #131)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:15 PM

133. Read Again

You wrote:

I stated the AWB was "worthless and ineffective" legislation. Nothing about the President in that. You are too predictable and transparent to get away with spins like that


I wrote

Call the President's position on AWB 'Worthless and Ineffective'.

You simply undermine him and our party.......not me.


Please do tell me how your position on the AWB and the President's position differ if not by the fact that you think it's 'worthless and ineffective' and the President thinks it's worthwhile and effective. You are too predictable and transparent to get away with spins like that

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #133)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:22 PM

135. I got it right the first time. You on the other hand...

 

...need to read what is their and not what you imagine is there. Huge difference but you'll catch on. Someday. Specifically stated the AWB was worthless and ineffective legislation which is absolutely was in the 10 years it existed. I didn't say anything about the President's position in that context. You just keep on failing...

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Response to Clames (Reply #135)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:05 PM

164. Again

Please do tell me how your position on the AWB and the President's position differ if not by the fact that you think it's 'worthless and ineffective' and the President thinks it's worthwhile and effective. You are too predictable and transparent to get away with spins like that

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #164)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:19 PM

168. There is a difference and it isn't a subtle one.

 

Read and figure it out for yourself. I don't do plain English comprehension homework for others.

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Response to Clames (Reply #168)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:02 AM

181. FLUFF

Again...you didn't answer.

Can't even do a good insult.....why I should I expect more than someone skimming sour milk and calling it cream.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #164)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:34 PM

175. The president is using the AWB

to make a political point. The ten years the AWB was in effect, it did nothing to deter gun crime. It encouraged the sale of high capacity magazines in the time prior to banning the sale of new magazines. The AWB caused the manufacturers to modify their guns to comply with the law. It's 'feel good' legislation that has no impact on crime.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #175)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:00 AM

180. Making a Point?

He SUPPORTS it.

Is that his point?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #81)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:46 PM

285. Funniest damn post I've read on this forum in a long time

Where's that brown paper bag? I'm hyperventilating...

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #69)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:33 PM

79. no, because he didn't lie

A lie is when someone tells an untruth and knows otherwise. For example, if you tell Hellen Keller the sky is purple with pink poka dots, you would be lying. If she repeated it, not knowing any better, she is not.
From reading the transcript, it is clear neither of them know much about firearms. That's OK.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #79)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:40 PM

84. GOT IT

You know better than Obama.


I support the President's position on guns.

You don't.

You undermine his election by doing so.

THAT is my truth about YOU.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #84)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:52 PM

94. I know more about guns than he does

he knows more about Constitutional law than I do.

What exactly is his position on guns? I don't think he said what people think he said.

I fail to see how, since I'm voting for him anyway and encouraging everyone doing the same. I also point out that Mitt's position on guns is not the same as mine either. Based on his actions as governor, you agree with him more than I do. He did sign and support strict gun laws in Mass. That is empirical truth.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #94)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:58 PM

99. Nonsense

Obama has said Bush was WRONG for letting the assault weapon's ban expire. I agree.

Here is Obama's position on guns ALL of which I support and ALL of which you are on record as opposing.


Fast-and-Furious: no prosecutions for Mexican gun/drug snafu

Midwestern "bitter clingers" frustrated over broken promises

Opposed bill okaying illegal gun use in home invasions

Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws

FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban

April 2008: "Bittergate" labeled Obama elitist

Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok

Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing

2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month

Concealed carry OK for retired police officers

Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities

Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality

Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban

Source: http://www.ontheissues.org/2012/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #99)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:10 PM

106. so you are OK with

federal agents violating laws and being stupid?
A cultural difference, that you have no grasp of.
So, people should not defend themselves?
I disagree with a ban
Well, how didn't it?
sounds contradictory
there is no such thing as "common sense"
which would do nothing
retired cops should be under the same rules as I am.
There are current federal laws for that. It really sounds like some VPC talking point.
So poor people shouldn't defend themselves? You realize gangsters don't go to gun stores, especially in Illinois
A "ban" that didn't ban, and did nothing positive other than the NRA helping Bernie Sanders unseat some Republican.




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Response to gejohnston (Reply #106)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:17 PM

108. You Interpretation- Not Mine

I support the President 100% on guns.


You make some pretty big leaps... I oppose self defense? fine...I'll make my own outrageous claims....the NRA is a criminals best friend.

I've had so many people say I am a VPC talking point. You'd think I'd know who the f@ck they are.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #108)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:23 PM

110. this line

Opposed bill okaying illegal gun use in home invasions
which means if you used an illegal gun to defend yourself in a home invasion, you would be prosecuted for the illegal gun. Did you know that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_Policy_Center
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_Campaign

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #110)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:25 PM

112. ILLEGAL GUN USE

Got it...you support ILLEGAL gun use.

I don't.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #112)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:28 PM

115. I support defending yourself by what ever means possible

the use would be legal under any US and most countries. The possession would not be.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #115)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:31 PM

116. Good Grief

Providing amnesty for illegal gun use is a ruse. It's as illegal as the crime being committed to necessitate it's use.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #116)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:37 PM

118. no,

the amnesty would be for illegal possession because of its legal use to save the owner's life. Basically, you would be prosecuting someone for a victim-less crime (like having pot plants) that came to the State's knowledge by a legal, and life saving, act.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #118)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:40 PM

120. Illegal Gun Use is Not a Victimless Crime

Never has been.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #120)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:27 PM

140. you obviously do not understand what the bill was about

The bill referred to places like Chicago and Morton Grove.
The bill would protect the victim of the home invasion if he or she defended him or her self with a illegally owned gun. As long as the homeowner had a Illinois FOID, making the gun legal under state law, just not legal under some town ordnance. In Morton Grove, IIRC, it was an $800 fine.
Home invaders kick in your door, and you shoot one. You would not be charged with shooting him, since that would be justifiable in just about any place in North America. You would be charged with gun possession, a local ordnance.
It would be legal use, illegal possession.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #140)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:30 PM

141. Get A FREAKING License

You, unlike me, give license to anyone to use an illegal gun according to your subjective view that it was necessary when often it isn't....door breaking or more often not.

What the freaking heck is so difficult about legally owning a gun?!?!

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #141)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:37 PM

144. read closer

Morton Grove would have fined you even if you had a license. Handguns were banned in Morton Grove just like Chicago. Not having a license, a FOID, in Illinois for any firearm, would be a felony under state law. In Morton Grove, you would be fined even if you had a FOID.

What the freaking heck is so difficult about legally owning a gun?!?!

depends on where you live. DC, NYC, USVI, Chicago pretty hard if not impossible. In fact, it is easier to get a concealed carry in Germany than it is to legally own one in DC or Chicago.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #144)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:43 PM

150. Simply Not True

As Obama would say. LOL.

Have you even tried in either place?

Didn't think so. And even if it is tre...so what? Why should getting a gun that enables someone to kill another person be any less easier than driving a car?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #150)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:46 PM

151. I took the time to look up the laws

because cars are not a right, and second, cause more damage than guns. How about knives and chainsaws? Besides, DMV any place in the US is pretty simple and straightforward. Registering a gun in DC is Kafkaesque for no legitimate reason.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #151)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:50 PM

154. Always the Same

Have you registered or tried to register a gun in DC?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #154)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:55 PM

158. I have read a few accounts of people who have

meanwhile, Canada you can register it on line after you buy it online from the Canadian version of Gunbroker.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #158)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:57 PM

160. Who?

Seriously...who?

Please give me the name of a single citizen who has been unable to legally register a gun in DC since Heller.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #154)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:05 PM

236. Have you tried to register a gun in DC?

 

Same difference, you're not qualified to talk about the subject either.

Quit the games, it alienates people.

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Response to Remmah2 (Reply #236)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:15 PM

239. No

Here is what gejohnston said: 'Registering a gun in DC is Kafkaesque for no legitimate reason.'

It's not. DC has even leased space to a gun dealer because he was having problems getting a cheap lease. It's not difficult at all.

If you want to elaborate to support his claim, please do. Otherwise ....how did you say it....'quit the games, it alienates people.'

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #239)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 07:31 PM

267. Emily Miller described the issue quite well. The process took her quite some time.

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/guns/

And the only reason the only firearms dealer in DC has to be crammed into the police headquarters is because DC has zoning laws that de facto outlaw any other location. They aren't doing it out of the goodness of their purile hearts; it's to keep the city from being sued into oblivion.

But I'm pretty sure you knew all this.....

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #267)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 07:40 PM

269. The LOONY Tune CONSERVATIVE Washington Times Bankrupt Moony Owned Paper

... that stop publishing for months, who is still investigating Vince Foster death, Big Foot and the homosexual addenda to subvert our government.....that Wash Times? LOL.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #269)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 08:00 PM

270. None of which has anything to do with the cited articles. You are attempting to dodge.

 

Feel free to review her publishings and dispute any factual inaccuracies you notice.

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #270)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 08:18 PM

271. Not even going to read

That paper could be toilet paper.

And for any progressive to quote it is amusing. For over 25 years, they refused to print the word gay.

It's a piece of sh!t and I have no intention of reading one word.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #271)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:10 PM

274. ever read "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu?

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself,
you will succumb in every battle”

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #274)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:18 PM

276. ...or Orwell's "1984"? Does the phrase "Ignorance is Strength" ring a bell?

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #276)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:39 PM

283. You must be Superman by now. n/t

 

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #274)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:31 PM

279. That's why you have me

LOL

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #271)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:14 PM

275. Now you're touting willful ignorance as if it was a virtue.

That's not very progressive...

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #275)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:30 PM

278. Yawn

Five degrees away from guns.

You keep reading that GOP Moonie right wing bankrupt propaganda rag as evidence of your willful intellect.....oh wait.....you don't read or subscribe to it. So we do have something in common....and THAT is your problem.

Let me know when you want to talk about guns rather than continuing this mindless banter unrelated to guns and all about masking your disdain for me as some kind of virtue.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #278)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:38 PM

281. I prefer a 1911 style or a SIG220 as a CHL gun.

Only in 45acp, a 9mm just won't cut it. I generally carry a full mag+ one in the pipe, and 2 xtra mags carried on the off side.

What is your preference?

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #281)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:42 PM

284. One 30-round mag in the well, two more within reasonable reach

Those gosh-darned zombies aren't going to kill themselves.

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #281)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 11:13 AM

289. None

Did I answer your question....just want to make sure.

Again .....none.

How many mags does that mean you carry? LOL.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #289)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 12:15 PM

296. 3 total, 7rds each. n/t

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #278)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:38 PM

282. It WASN'T a mistake - it was a BIG FUCKING MISTAKE

Omigod. Omigod. Didjaseedat? I pulled a Joe Biden and refocused the debate on guns. I just might have to breathe into a paper bag for a few minutes.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #282)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 11:14 AM

290. Feel Better?

?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #290)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 02:38 PM

298. The First Amendment is a beautiful thing (n/t)

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Response to derby378 (Reply #298)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 05:27 PM

301. Completely Agree

.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #278)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 11:03 PM

288. I did read the articles mentioned, and you haven't.

Therefore, your comments about them are by definition uninformed and ignorant. No amount of shouting and handwaving will change that.

When they were discussed here, I don't recall any of you lot disputing the accuracy of them and their descriptions of a Kafkaesque bureaucracy. ISTR
the response was along the lines of what you've shown here- much wharrgarbl about "Moonies", "Fundies" "right-wing", "GOP" et cetera-
the genetic fallacy in full cry.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #271)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:55 PM

286. Irrelevent to the articles I cited to.

 

I gave you a direct link to information you requested. You have refused to examine the provided evidence for integrity, veracity and relevence, citing only irrelevent matters not applicable to the subject at hand. You have no intention of debating honestly. Your credibility, faint as it was, has now utterly vanished. Welcome to the round file.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #141)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:28 PM

172. May I please see your FREAKING First, Fourth, Thirteenth and Twenty-Fourth Amendment licences?

 

What the freaking heck is so difficult about legally speaking in public, refusing a non-warranted search, rejecting your slave chains or providing proof of government permission to vote?

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #172)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:09 AM

183. WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

Non Warranted Search?

Slave Chains?

Proof of Government Permission to Vote?

Who is searching what?
What freaking chains are you talking about?
What does voting have to do with guns other than intimidation?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #183)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:16 AM

185. Sigh....

 

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #112)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:49 PM

126. You aparently support people dying because they could not defend themselves.

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #126)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:54 PM

127. Stupid

If two people want to illegally own and use a gun to kill each other while both are commiting a crime and you want to defend that, I think it's safe to say THAT is exactly what is wrong with gun policy in this country.

I'll leave you to characterizing that as 'supporting people dying.' It's stupid and not true.

Oh...and let me add, it's not me supporting people dying but you.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #112)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:25 PM

171. Self-defense which would be lawful except for the choice of tool....

 

SHOULD BE FUCKING LAWFUL BECAUSE THE TOOL USED IS FUCKING IRRELEVENT.

See, you aren't the only one who can abuse the caps key.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #99)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:46 PM

123. Bush could not reinstate a ban that was never presented to him by Congress.

"Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban"

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #123)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:47 PM

125. Wink Wink

Such a loop hole?!?!?


LOL!!!!

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #125)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:51 PM

155. Are you saying that Congress DID present it to him?

I would like to see any evidence that you have.

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #155)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:54 PM

157. No

Keep trying.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #99)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:15 PM

167. Bush didn't let the AWB expire, Congress did.

The legislation to renew the AWB died in committee.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #167)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:25 AM

189. LOL

Must have been the GOP NRA litmus test.........

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #189)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:31 AM

190. historical fact

I fail to see the humor.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #189)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 07:56 AM

204. Obviously, you don't like facts when they are inconvient to you.

BTW, Bush said he would sign the AWB renewal if it reached his desk.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #204)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 09:44 AM

218. Which Didn't Happen ....

....because the NRA and gun advocates like many on this board made sure that didn't happen.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #218)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 01:03 PM

242. Yes, defeating the AWB renewal was one of many gun-rights victories.

The last 18 years have seen hundreds of pro-gun bills become law. So far this year there have been over 30 pro-gun legislative victories.

You may notice that Obama hasn't pushed for an AWB renewal either.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #242)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 04:29 PM

245. Actually He Has

Not only has he publicly supported the ban on assault weapons, you'll find it in the Party Platform


Firearms. We recognize that the individual right to bear arms is an important part of the American tradition, and we will preserve Americans’ Second Amendment right to own and use firearms. We believe that the right to own firearms is subject to reasonable regulation. We understand the terrible consequences of gun violence; it serves as a reminder that life is fragile, and our time here is limited and precious. We believe in an honest, open national conversation about firearms. We can focus on effective enforcement of existing laws, especially strengthening our background check system, and we can work together to enact commonsense improvements – like reinstating the assault weapons ban and closing the gun show loophole – so that guns do not fall into the hands of those irresponsible, law- breaking few.



Source: Our Party Platform
http://assets.dstatic.org/dnc-platform/2012-National-Platform.pdf

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #245)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 04:37 PM

247. he didn't write the platform

a committee in the DNC did.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #247)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 04:48 PM

250. Good Grief

Really....that's the best you can do

Are you really arguing the President doesn't support the Party Platform on guns?
Are you really saying that the majority of Democrats didn't affirm and support the Platform on opening night of the convention?

WHAT NONSENSE! Your implication that the President doesn't share those views is ridiculous.

Can you point to a single article where the President has said he does not support that portion of the party platform regarding guns?

GOOD GRIEF.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #250)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 04:59 PM

252. I said no such thing

I said he didn't write it. A committee wrote it. did the convention members vote on the entire thing or just each piece individually? Don't know.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #245)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 05:31 PM

255. Lip service isn't "pushing".

Renewing the AWB was in the 2008 platform too, but when members of his team started to talk about actually doing it, he shut them up in a hurry. Obama has so far left congress alone on the matter. Further, I seriously doubt that he will attempt to do anything about it in the next term.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #255)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 05:59 PM

258. Hope You are Wrong



.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #258)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 06:31 PM

259. I doubt that he will want to spend the political capital for no gain.

First, over half of the current House and almost half of the Senate has an NRA of "A". That is unlikely to change greatly. So that would stop any new AWB.

Presidents don't like to spend political capital on high profile losing fights, as it greatly weakens them. Obama has been and will remain smart enough to avoid gun control.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #259)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 06:59 PM

261. No Gain

According to you.

I disagree.

That's what they said about gay marriage and a no gain agenda in 04 is now a high gain agenda.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #261)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 07:16 PM

263. Gun control is still a no gain.

When any president pushes for legislation, and doesn't get it, he loses political capital. He loses effectiveness. That is a simple reality of politics. All presidents, including Obama, pick and choose their battles to avoid getting into a losing battle. Since about half of Congress has an NRA rating of "A", then any gun control legislation will be dead on arrival. It won't get out of comittee. Therefore for Obama to push for an new AWB would be a losing battle for him. No gain.

I haven't followed gay issues closely. What legislation has Obama pushed congress for? I know he has made some pro-gay marriage statements in speeches, but I am not aware of any pro gay-marriage legislation that he has pushed for.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #263)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 07:24 PM

264. as for Guns

....I hope you are wrong.

As for Gays, Don't Ask, Don't Tell comes to mind.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/civil-rights

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #264)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 07:36 PM

268. We will know in a few days.

If the NRA loses a bunch of congressional seats then Obama may go for it. Otherwise he won't touch gun control.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #84)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:22 PM

169. Are you claiming the President is omniscient and infallible?

 

Because that is certainly what you have been trying to imply with all this drivel.

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #169)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:12 AM

184. Are You Saying You Support a President You Oppose?

Because that is certainly what you have been trying to imply with all this drivel.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #184)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:18 AM

186. You keep trying to sell the idea that if we disagree with the President on one issue....

 

then we disagree with him on all issues.

Stop.

Just... stop.

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #186)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:20 AM

188. NO

Just GUNS.... You know.... The TOPIC of this board.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #188)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:34 AM

191. Funny, seems you forgot what the topic is given your last...

 

...few tirades

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Response to Clames (Reply #191)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:38 AM

192. What?

Your support of the notion that Obama made a big mistake or my support of his gun policies?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #184)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:07 PM

237. You can't answer a question with a question.

 

nt

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Response to Remmah2 (Reply #237)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:20 PM

241. I Can't?

My question to him was in response to a STATEMENT he made.

Read thread again.

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Response to enough (Reply #5)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 10:44 PM

10. Here in MO

 

yes, it's going to cost him votes.
SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #10)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:53 AM

194. Support President's Policies or Take Else Where

Outside election cycle, TOS permits dissent.

During election cycle, rules change

More on Supporting Our Candidate

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10131399

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #194)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 01:05 AM

197. you don't grasp the difference between

an observation and lack of support. He was making an observation.

Actually, the TOS does not ban dissent, as long as it is constructive.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #194)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 05:37 AM

202. I find it a bit sad and ironic

 

That we as liberals always tout our reason as the core of our beliefs that give them strength. Welcoming debates on the issues. Yet on the one issue, gun control, where our party has an emotional and unreasoned position we're told,"shhhh you can't discuss that because it'll make us look bad". It makes the Democrats look bad because the party is on the wrong side of this issue. When you have a bad plank in your platform you don't censor all speech regarding it YOU CANGE THAT PART OF YOUR PLATFORM! Apparently hypocrisy knows no political affiliation.

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Response to Reasonable_Argument (Reply #202)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 09:52 AM

222. Wrong Side?

What 'side' is that?

There is a time and a place to debate the merits of our party's platform and our candidate's views on guns.

Three weeks before election undermines his Candidacy.

Saying he is going to lose votes does nothing to encourage he doesn't.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #194)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 07:26 AM

203. I didn't say I wasn't going to vote for him

 

I am, I said it's going to cost him votes in MO.
Reading comprehension is fundamental, learn it.
I don't need you to tell me about supporting our candidates.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #203)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 09:47 AM

220. Supporting Documentation?

Poll, anything ????

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #220)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:04 AM

223. I live here

 

I know how people here think. I don't need a poll to know that this is going to hurt him in the rural areas and to a lesser extent, in the urban areas.
And, I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone else for that matter.
BTW, you claimed up thread that I violated the TOS, did you alert? If so, how well did that work out for ya?

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #223)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:08 AM

226. No

I generally do not alert. Can't say I never have but I believe bad speech should be matched with more speech. You've offered no evidence other than your opinion which is no less or more valid than mine.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #226)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:16 AM

229. My opinion is much more valid than yours

 

Like I said, I live here, all my life, I know how the citizens here think, you don't. MO is a purple state and this issue of renewing the AWB, which didn't accomplish a damn thing before except help the Dems lose the Congress in 94, can push the state to the dark side.

It can cost us votes by those that would otherwise vote D, will instead stay home which is just giving a vote to the R's.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #226)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 11:56 AM

235. GET OUT OF HIS FACE AND STOP CALLING HIM OUT.

 

So close to the election, stop the pissing contest and pull together.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 10:42 PM

6. Assault weapons ban is bunk

They LOOK more mean? Is that it?
Mean looking AKMS. 7.62 X 39. Fires one round each time the trigger is pulled.



While this 30-06 hunting rifle actually is much more powerful, (7.62 X 63) , fires
just as fast, (one round each time the trigger is pulled)
has much farther range, and much higher muzzle velocity and destructive force.



Yet the assault weapons ban would ban the first and keep the second.

In reality, the assault weapons ban does NOTHING to prevent crime.

This WILL cost him votes.

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Response to James48 (Reply #6)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 10:45 PM

11. I miss my 742's.

Had a 243 and 30-06....both great guns.

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Response to James48 (Reply #6)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 10:48 PM

13. You make a dangerous assumption

 

Some of the people pushing a new ban don't just want a renewal. They want an ACTUAL ban on everything from privates sales to manufacturing of weapons and magazines they don't like.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 10:43 PM

8. That was a huge mistake

 

it's going to cost him here in MO also.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 10:43 PM

9. Probably won't help him win my end of VA.

But then again Mitt sucks ass to when it comes to our 2A rights.

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Response to ileus (Reply #9)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 10:45 PM

12. Yep, but Mittens never said BAN...Obama did....

Expect a big rush on guns...

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Response to virginia mountainman (Reply #12)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 10:57 PM

15. Already did...

I made sure to pick up the few that were on my "must have" list for this year early. Now it's a matter of stocking up on ammo so I'll be able to blast away at the range guilt & worry free until the supply and demand return to normal next summer.

I promised never to get caught with my pants down again after the last dumbass run on ammo.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 10:54 PM

14. What did he say exactly? NT

 

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 10:59 PM

16. I just googled polls on assault weapons and it

Looks like the majority of Amearicans support some restrictions on them. Not out right bans. The last laws did have restrictions on military style weapons, like number of rounds, however, most of those style guns were still legal to own. I think most of those restrictions would be supported by most voters. Of course the extremist will spin it as an out right ban and then vote for the white they were going to vote for anyway.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #16)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 11:05 PM

17. I strongly disagree

The last assault weapon ban did limit magazine sizes, but it also baned cosmetic features. How does banning things like a bayonet lug, or a flash supressor, or collopsable stock make a gun any less dangerous?

There are a lot of single issue voters when it comes to gun, and a few swing states that tend to be pro gun. I think Obama will loose votes for supporting an Assault weapons ban.

On the plus side, there is no way he will get the votes to pass it, unless the house has a big shift. With the current makeup of congress, an assault weapons ban doesn't have a chance in passing, which makes it even dumber to publicly support.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #17)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 11:12 PM

22. Most every poll showed only

teN percent of Americans support NO restrictions on assualt weapons. I'd be more than happy with the support of 90 percent of voters.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #22)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 11:30 PM

28. unless there is an "assault weapon loophole"

in the current three or four federal gun laws, not counting NFA, there are restrictions on "assault weapons" just like there are on any other rifles. There are restrictions, so the 90 percent might support the status quo, unless those restrictions are defined.

It is like the poll bloggers drag out "most people support stricter gun laws" but when you read the questions, they are really supporting the status quo.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #16)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 11:09 PM

19. Most people don't have a clue what the issue is really about

 

They hear the words "assault" and "weapons" and conjure up images of things that are very bad, but they really don't have any idea what that question referred to.

As far as the polls go, it's a validity issue IMO.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #16)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 11:12 PM

21. how many actually know what they are being asked about?

Most people have no idea what an "assault weapon" compared to any other semi auto rifle with a wooden stock. Even fewer grasp that the term exists only in legalese, no technical terms. The last introduction included pistols like the Walther GSP, mostly used in the Olympics, because of the location of the magazine well. California did just that.

Of course the extremist will spin it as an out right ban and then vote for the white they were going to vote for anyway.
Define moderate, and at what point would a gun law become "extreme"? Sorry, I don't buy the race argument. Not that racists don't exist, but they haven't been voting Democratic since I was a kid.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #16)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:20 PM

134. It doesn't matter that the majority supports a ban

 

It still costs more votes because those who support a ban don't vote on this, the other side does.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)


Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 11:11 PM

20. This has already broke on THR and TFL

 

That's a lot of voters

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Response to Trunk Monkey (Reply #20)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 11:42 PM

30. It's on damn near every gun board

 

I've got about half a dozen open now and they are all very very pissed off. When the media runs with it tomorrow this could really hurt him in close swing states. I know it's been a policy of his for a while, but when you're on national tv and call for a gun ban....well.... that smoke you see coming from NRA HQ is a thousand people typing out letters and blog posts to tell people what they've been telling you all along is now proven. That's a lot of pissed off voters.

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Response to Reasonable_Argument (Reply #30)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 01:29 PM

43. The NRA already has the gun nuts all stirred up.

No change among gun nuts, gains among women.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 11:14 PM

23. No cable here

 

what was the actual quote if you don't mind?

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #23)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:14 AM

40. Here it is.


He's done a good job avoiding mentioning the AWB up to this point, but he slipped.

Q: President Obama, during the Democratic National Convention in 2008, you stated you wanted to keep AK-47s out of the hands of criminals. What has your administration done or plan to do to limit the availability of assault weapons?

PRESIDENT OBAMA: You know, we’re a nation that believes in the Second Amendment. And I believe in the Second Amendment. You know, we’ve got a long tradition of hunting and sportsmen and people who want to make sure they can protect themselves.

But there have been too many instances during the course of my presidency where I’ve had to comfort families who’ve lost somebody, most recently out in Aurora. You know, just a couple of weeks ago, actually probably about a month, I saw a mother who I had met at the beside of her son who had been shot in that theater.

And her son had been shot through the head. And we spent some time, and we said a prayer. And remarkably, about two months later, this young man and his mom showed up, and he looked unbelievable, good as new. But there were a lot of families who didn’t have that good fortune and whose sons or daughters or husbands didn’t survive.

So my belief is that A, we have to enforce the laws we’ve already got, make sure that we’re keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, those who are mentally ill. We’ve done a much better job in terms of background checks, but we’ve got more to do when it comes to enforcement.

But I also share your belief that weapons that were designed for soldiers in war theaters don’t belong on our streets. And so what I’m trying to do is to get a broader conversation about how do we reduce the violence generally. Part of it is seeing if we can get an assault weapons ban reintroduced, but part of it is also looking at other sources of the violence, because frankly, in my hometown of Chicago, there’s an awful lot of violence, and they’re not using AK-47s, they’re using cheap handguns.

And so what can we do to intervene to make sure that young people have opportunity, that our schools are working, that if there’s violence on the streets, that working with faith groups and law enforcement, we can catch it before it gets out of control?

And so what I want is a — is a comprehensive strategy. Part of it is seeing if we can get automatic weapons that kill folks in amazing numbers out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill. But part of it is also going deeper and seeing if we can get into these communities and making sure we catch violent impulses before they occur.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #40)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:27 AM

42. Ah so it wasn't misrepresented

 

stupid comment on his part.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 11:18 PM

24. For the last 4 years, the President has been very disciplined re: AWB up to that point


It was an unfortunate slip.


The big battleground states are:

Virginia
North Carolina
Florida
Ohio
Nevada
Colorado

Yes, AWB reauthorization can tip an undecided voter.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #24)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 07:26 PM

60. "Yes, AWB reauthorization can tip an undecided voter."

Yeah toward Obama - white men and white women are opposed on gun control (less so than minority groups).

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1535/poll-state-local-governments-laws-banning-sale-possession-handguns

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #60)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:17 PM

70. Go back and read that link again.

 

This time lower your distortion field first...


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Response to Clames (Reply #70)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:24 PM

72. GOT IT

You parrot the GOP party line.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #72)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:33 PM

80. Wrong.

 

You parrot the Brady/VPC/MAIG ignorance line.

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Response to Clames (Reply #80)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:35 PM

82. Outside Brady

...who I am not a member, I have no idea who the groups you reference are.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #82)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:27 PM

114. Not surprising.

 

All talk and no walk on this topic with you. You don't put up money, you don't write letters, you are precisely the type of anti-gunner that is losing your cause. Keep it up the good (non) work...

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Response to Clames (Reply #114)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:39 PM

119. Huh?

I don't write letters? Really? You know this how?

I don't give money? To whom or what? To Brady....NO. To pro gun control candidates...you bet. You really think Brady is the entire gun control movement in this country? Really? Keep thinking that.

Oh, Nevermind...you know about as much about me as you do gun violence.

LOL- Keep thinking not a single argument or post I have made on this board constitutes writing about gun control.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #119)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:26 PM

138. Didn't stutter.

 

You have made plenty of false assumptions on many posters in this group. I know vastly more about this topic than you can even comprehend. You technical ignorance alone on the topic proves that. Did I state anywhere that the Brady Campaign was the entire gun control movement? Nope. In fact I stated Brady Campaign/VPC/MAIG earlier which proves that I didn't consider them having a monopoly on the stupidity that is the anti-gun movement. So predictable...

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Response to Clames (Reply #114)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 01:26 AM

200. Just like him/her to be clueless on the subject he/she is whining about

 

or intentionally dishonest about it

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #72)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:03 PM

102. So, all politics is binary?

 

Really?



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Response to Clames (Reply #70)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:47 PM

152. Dude

Women overall support loose restrictions on gun ownership less then men along the data points 18%, 23%, 27%, 16%, 16%, 24%, 17% - now please get out your graphing paper and ruler, chart that and then draw the trend line. Gun control still plays way better among men than women. We already know this election that the President is going to lose white men by a substantial margin, the question is whether he makes substantial gains among women - according to this poll in 2010 62% of women put gun control ahead of gun rights. Are you really willing to blow off 62% women? The long term numbers don't appear great but gun control still has traction with women and minority communities.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #152)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:53 PM

156. when it comes to Mitt

guns are going to be a nonissue to most women either way. Obama could have said, "I support repealing all federal gun laws including NFA and the Hughes Amendment" and his support among women and minorities would not wane, because they are more concerned with more pressing issues like health care, choice, economics, and not sideshow wedge issues like guns.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #60)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:25 PM

74. Those data are bad for your side, ellisonz.



And trending in the wrong direction.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 11:22 PM

25. I agree but

 

As Massachusetts governor in 2004, Romney signed into law an assault weapons ban and he was called on it tonight. As was stated he was for it before he was against it. Not that it will change the minds that are already made up. Those voters all agree that Obama will take their guns away no matter what is said.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 11:26 PM

26. I find it interesting that neither candidate knows the difference between an automatic ...

firearm and a semi-auto firearm.

The majority of the 80 million gun owners in this nation does understand the difference and that same majority is largely opposed to the implementation of yet another assault weapons ban.

Romney stated that fully automatic firearms are illegal in our nation and that is totally false. Such weapons are tightly regulated and in SOME states are indeed illegal.

I do feel that Obama may have lost some vital votes when he stated he supports another ban. If this is a close election he just may have shot himself in the foot. Many gun owners distrust Romney but now will have a reason to show up at the polls to vote against Obama.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 11:27 PM

27. I've got to say I'm sorry but

 

I agree with you.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Tue Oct 16, 2012, 11:40 PM

29. It's all a lot of the RW folks are latching on to right now.

Fuck fuck fuck fuck FUCKING stupid thing to say, and an unfortunate blemish on an otherwise awesome debate performance.

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Response to eqfan592 (Reply #29)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 07:23 PM

59. ...



The real NRA types who are single-issue voters about this issue already all vote Republican down the line anyway.

Plus, it probably helps him with women.

Stupid white men are a lost cause.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 12:26 AM

31. He could have just said: "I'll enforce existing laws." But no.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 01:13 AM

32. Well

 

When your heart is in the right place, it's hard to hide it.

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Response to pointless1 (Reply #32)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 01:21 AM

33. His heart may be in the right place (wanting to reduce violence) but his head isn't if he thinks...

...any sort of new bans will lead to that outcome. Political poison pill with a negative return on investment = a not even remotely smart policy.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 06:11 AM

34. I seriously doubt this will be a game changer

I'd think people would have already made up their minds by now, but if Obama takes a small hit in the polls as a result, I say so be it. Let this be another reminder to all politicians that even the mere mention of (re)introducing additional gun legislation is a big fucking no-no and it will bite you in the ass. As far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing.

Yes the President said the "B" word - bad move on his part, and it will no doubt bring out the "I told you so" types, however I felt that both candidates deflected the topic enough and really only paid lip service.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 07:21 AM

35. One suspects

that those folks would not have voted for him anyway.

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #35)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:56 AM

37. Maybe, maybe not

 

I can't tell you the number of years I voted Republican out of habit because I was a single-issue voter. I figured if they didn't respect the 2nd amendment, the rest of their policies were untrustworthy, also.

It took years before I just could not turn a blind eye to corporate pandering and endless wars on drugs and terror.

If the Democrats were pro-gun I probably would have given the rest of their policies a harder look much sooner.

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Reply #37)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:00 AM

38. You are right,

Maybe, maybe not

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Reply #37)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:09 PM

132. LOL

You write 'I can't tell you the number of years I voted Republican out of habit because I was a single-issue voter.'

What a surprise.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #132)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:33 PM

174. Mocking others for coming to the light?

 

THAT should be a fucking TOS violation.

GTFO.

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #174)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:05 AM

182. Has He??????

He opposes our President's position on guns.

Let me know when he comes close to the light on any issue. So far all I've heard is he opposes the President on guns.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #182)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 08:53 AM

207. Now you know that isn't the case, fight.

 

So far all I've heard is he opposes the President on guns.

We have talked in other forums. Maybe you did not notice my name.

I've stated my positions many times before.

I have participated in the Occupy movement. I've camped, marched, and protested at town hall meetings.
I am pro-choice. Now I've always been pro-choice, even when I was conservative, but there it is.
I'm pro-gay marriage. Love is love, and should be encouraged.
I'm pro-environment. The environment must be protected from the relentless pursuit of profit.
I am against Citizens United. Corporations that speak with multi-million dollar voices drown out The People.
I am pro-Union, and pro-organization. If one person can negotiate benefits, why not two together? Or more?
I am against the influence of wealth and corporations on our government.
I believe the single biggest threat to our way of life today is the fact that more and more wealth are getting sequestered into the hands of fewer and fewer people, and this is choking off the chance for opportunity for most Americans.
I support a Single-Payer, taxpayer-funded health insurance program.
I do not support America's imperialist wars to secure fossil-fuels.
I do not support the War on Drugs.
I oppose racism. My daughter attends the most integrated school in the country, and I am glad of that.

Yes, I oppose the President's position on guns, and I oppose the Democratic Party platform's position on guns.

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Reply #207)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 09:33 AM

211. Cool

Refreshing to see we have much in common. Apologies if my passionate and sincere views about guns causes me to forget that.

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Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #35)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:08 AM

39. One would be wrong.

There are a lot of gun owning moderates out there, and if you think their opinion isn't swayed one way or another by this sort of stuff, you'd be wrong. The AWB is a political poison pill, end of story.

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Response to eqfan592 (Reply #39)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 02:00 PM

44. And on this

we disagree.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:09 AM

36. Bottom line, this isn’t going to hurt Obama except with swing voters.

 

The hard core Republicans and Democrats have already made up their minds. Even if Obama had flat out said “I support a full ban on civilian firearms ownership.” I don’t think even his most ardent supporters in the House and Senate are willing to throw themselves under the bus to put such legislation on his desk.

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Response to Trunk Monkey (Reply #36)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:20 AM

41. After thinking about it more, I believe the more likely effect will be on the makeup of Congress

 

I believe the President now has a lock on getting re-elected. He'd have to do something really stupid, or have some major scandal break, in the next three weeks to change that.

Bills usually originate in Congress. If no bill to ban any kind of firearm gets to the President's desk, it simply won't become law. Some voters understand that. Many don't, but having the President on record as supporting a gun ban could tip the balance in some close races in the House and Senate.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #41)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 02:37 PM

45. Show the polls that are coming out today showing Romney leading 51-45%

 

Are wrong?

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Response to rl6214 (Reply #45)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 02:40 PM

46. I don't understand your reply. Could you please re-phrase it to make it clear?

 

Show the polls that are coming out today showing Romney leading 51-45%

I generally don't like taking orders from strangers. If you have something you would like to see posted here, I suggest that you do it yourself.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #46)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 03:02 PM

47. I think he meant

 

SO the polls that are coming out today showing Romney leading 51-45% are wrong?

added words in italics

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Response to Trunk Monkey (Reply #47)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 03:08 PM

48. If that is the case, I would say...

 

I don't care about polls other than elections.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #46)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:48 PM

91. I don't see where I was issueing orders, there is a question mark there

 

Show the polls that are coming out today showing Romney leading 51-45%
Are wrong?

Small typo, show should have been SO

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Response to rl6214 (Reply #91)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:52 PM

95. My original response was directed at your title. The body just seemed to be nonsense.

 

My reply is: I don't care about polls other than elections.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #95)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:58 AM

195. I agree with you about the polls

 

And looking at my original post I can see where it can be difficult, I was running out of room in the title and just continued on thru the body

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Response to rl6214 (Reply #195)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 09:27 AM

210. No problem. I was posting from my cell phone anyway.

 

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 05:58 PM

50. NONSENSE



.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #50)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 06:06 PM

52. And this is based on your extensive knowledge of how gun owning swing voters think, right?

Based on many of your posts on these issues you have proven time and again that you don't have a fucking clue as to how this group thinks or what influences their votes.

After all, why should they care about the promise of a ban on the most popular target rifle in America matter to people with thousands of $ tied up in their sport.

Here's a tip, putting something in all caps doesn't make it any more true than your normal babble.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 06:02 PM

51. EITHER SUPPORT OUR PRESIDENT OR TAKE IT ELSEWHERE DURING THE ELECTION CYCLE

Outside election cycle, TOS permits dissent.

During election cycle, rules change

More on Supporting Our Candidate

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10131399

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #51)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 06:13 PM

53. Do you see anyone supporting anyone else?

Giving constructive criticism is giving support. Being a "yes person" is not.
The "here" reference: the "here" is not DU in general or the gungeon in particular. I think he was referring to the swing state where he resides.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #53)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 06:17 PM

54. THREAD VIOLATES TOS

Here is the Specific TOS Section that is in violation specific to the election cycle where the rules change: ' If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side.' This post Undermines our candidate by saying his position is costing him votes. From skinner: http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10131399

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #54)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 06:28 PM

55. it is a prediction of what could happen

in his state, that is not the same as bashing him or trying to undermine his campaign. Notice the OP says "it will". That is a prediction. A TOS violation would read something like "I think it should" or "we should vote for the other guy".

Quite honestly, I'm not so sure he said what everyone thinks he said.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #55)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 06:53 PM

56. VIOLATION OF TOS

Saying the President's position on guns is a 'BIG mistake' is undermining our candidate. Take it someplace else.

To suggest otherwise would enable any poster to say anything counter to our candidate only to enhance the position of our opponent.

in this case the poster agrees with our opponent.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #56)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 07:51 PM

61. you missed the point

it was a mistake for him to say it. Mitt has basically the same position, and said so. If you read closer, and learn about the law Mitt passed, you actually agree with Mitt more than Obama or us.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #61)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 07:58 PM

64. WTF?

Double Talk.

He said Obama made a BIG MISTAKE.

He did not.

And you argue I agree with Romney all you want.

It's BS and simply not true.

You write 'it was a mistake for him to say it.'

Who are you talking about?



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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #64)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:06 PM

65. read the transcript

and try to read between the lines.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #65)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:26 PM

75. It Was A Simple Question

Who?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #75)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:43 PM

86. It was a mistake for Obama to say it

especially when you look at where the swing states are.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #86)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:49 PM

92. Speculation

He's NOT going to win swing votes in swing states by saying something he neither believes nor his record doesn't support.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #92)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:55 PM

97. his record as president can go either way

but I do think may pro gun folks will leave it blank now that everyone knows about Mitt's record in Mass.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #97)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:09 PM

105. The Record Could Go Either Way?

And that's why you completely disagree with the President's position on guns?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #105)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:12 PM

107. what he personally thinks and does in office

are two different things. You would be supporting Mitt's position as well as Nixon's. If you can't grasp more than two dimensions, I can't help you.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #56)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:37 PM

145. What did the jury say?

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #145)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:40 PM

148. You Tell Me?

?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #148)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:14 PM

166. I did not alert on it...but given your SHOUTING about TOS VIOLATIONS

I can only assume that you lived to your words and alerted on them.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #145)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:42 AM

193. The Solution to Bad Speech

....is more speech...not less.

Want to talk guns?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #193)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 08:47 AM

206. As others have noted...

All talk and no walk

All hat and no cattle

All you fire are blanks


You wade in to several threads SHOUTING about TOS VIOLATIONS, make any number of false statements about what other posters said, YELL some more about TOS VIOLATIONS and then pretend you have not alerted on the TOS VIOLATIONS. Pull the other finger.

Like both presidential candidates, I don't think you know much about guns and are basically a trolling.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #206)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 09:40 AM

213. OK

Here are the facts:

No Jury has ever cast a single vote by any alert you claim I have sent regarding this thread.

I do believe it violates TOS. You don't.

I do support all of the President's position on guns. You don't support most if any.

Stick to those facts rather than your personal animosity toward me.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #213)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 09:49 AM

221. Come On

Your claim of not alerting does not make it a fact. It is also unprovable

Your belief about a post is meaningless without a jury verdict or admin interaction

The President's position is vague in key details. Couple that with your clear lack of knowledge and it means you support things you which you cannot and do not understand.


You are trolling and doing it badly...now there is a fact

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #221)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:05 AM

224. Nothing about Guns

Nothing about Guns other than your claim that the President's views on the subject are vague.

They are not.

I agree with the President's views.

You don't.

If you have a problem with my posts, do your own alerts.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #224)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:10 AM

228. You're the one claiming TOS violations

 

yet you claim you haven't alerted, why? Is it because even you don't believe your own claim?

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #228)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:18 AM

230. Read Thread

Already answered.

Here are the facts:
I support all of the Presidents views on guns.
You don't.
That undermines his candidacy this close in on the race.

You disagree with me and the President on guns.

Must not be a very important issue for you.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #56)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:23 PM

170. Then alert on the OP if you are so sure.

 

Like I stated earlier with you, all talk and no walk

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Response to Clames (Reply #170)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:59 PM

179. No Need

Seriously...the whole alert thing seems to be the tactic of those who disagree with me....LOL

Doesn't work. LOL


Try MORE speech. How about this.....


Saying the President's position on guns is a 'BIG mistake' is undermining our candidate. Take it someplace else.

To suggest otherwise would enable any poster to say anything counter to our candidate only to enhance the position of our opponent.


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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #179)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 01:14 AM

199. Uh-huh.

So, you won't alert on it, because you know damn well it isn't a TOS violation.
Thread does not undermine our candidate. I can point out that a particular position is a wedge issue, and I think our candidate is on the wrong side of it, and still vote for him, and not cause other people to refrain from voting for him.

Your position would have put every GLBT+ member of this board who posted critical of it, as a TOS violation for posting anything critical of the president's position on same sex marriage, 1 year ago.

'Undermining' would look more like 'grrr hey guys, I don't like this position and we should all get together and not vote for the president in protest'. And of course, the OP did nothing of the kind.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #56)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:47 PM

176. Alert, or fuck off. You're not the Zampolit of the Gungeon.

Jeez, why do we get all the wannabee Guardians of Progressivism and self-anointed politruks?

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #176)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:56 PM

178. Nice--- How about YOU...oh...Nevermind

FACT

Saying the President's position on guns is a 'BIG mistake' is undermining our candidate. Take it someplace else.

To suggest otherwise would enable any poster to say anything counter to our candidate only to enhance the position of our opponent.



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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #176)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:19 AM

187. Nice

Notice all the cursing and profanity without any reference to guns or any line of argument other than personal animosity......

How about the moderator stepping up?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #187)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 03:24 AM

201. I have very little tolerance for self-appointed political officers.

I have even less tolerance for ones that think their opinion on a subject is DU policy and start shouting and waving when an amen chorus isn't provided.

As for the profanity, tough. Let me make one thing perfectly clear:

I want President Obama to get reelected- and so does every other poster here- even the ones you've accused of TOS violations, 'undermining' (you really should use
the term 'wrecking', per The Gulag Archipelago as it more suits the witch-hunt atmosphere you seem determined to create).

Saying that the President's approach is wrong and will cost votes is constructive criticism, not blasphemy. I like and admire the man- but he's not the Messiah, for fuck's sake!
However, I'd really, really like to see the term "Ex-President Obama" left on the shelf until 2017, mmkay? We are just trying to determine the best way for that to happen.

Thinking that if we here at DU keep schtum about his stance on guns it will somehow negate the political cost of it is, at best, magical thinking.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #201)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 09:46 AM

219. Nonsense

There has been no proof or evidence to back up any claim it has cost him one vote since so many here point out Romney and Obama have the same views on guns.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #56)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 08:14 AM

205. So alert on it

 

or are you all mouth and no action? I disagree with his statement on the AWB, so what? I'm still voting for him. But here in MO, that statement will cost him votes that he might have otherwise gotten, it's fact, not a TOS violation that you are so fond of saying.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #205)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 09:42 AM

215. No Need

Bad speech gets more speech.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #215)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:07 AM

225. Just as I thought

 

all talk and no action.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #225)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:09 AM

227. All talk

....none of it about guns.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #227)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:20 AM

231. You're the one shouting TOS violations, TOS violations

 

and yet not one hidden post. Obviously no one else agrees with you. Like I said, all talk, no action.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #231)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 11:17 AM

233. And you keep returning to it while I have moved on

I get it.

You disagree with the President on guns and you think it's going to hurt him even though many on this board say Obama has same position as Romney on guns or Romney's position is worse than Obama because he has changed it.

Either way, it makes no sense, is illogical and does nothing to support our candidate.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #54)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 01:10 AM

198. Oh please. Misrepresent much?

OP isn't encouraging people not to vote for Obama, he's pointing out this issue will cost him votes. A valid point.
If you think this thread violates TOS, by all means, push that alert button, and the people whose job it actually is to determine such things, will do their jobs.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #53)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 09:43 AM

217. Someone's having a panic attack.

 

It's authoritarian attitudes of some that really scare me, blind faith and absolute submission. This is common in spousal abuse cases. One is the authoritarian one is the submissive.

Look what Bush did to us. The people that blindly followed him on the path to war.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 06:57 PM

57. PERHAPS THANKS TO YOUR ADVERSARIAL POSITION TO THAT OF OUR CANDIDATE


...and your support of Mitt Romney's position on guns.
.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #57)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 07:54 PM

63. What is Romney's position on guns?

since he actually signed a gun ban and admitted it. He tried to bullshit his way around it, but it got thrown in his face.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #63)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:28 PM

76. Do You Support the President's Position on Guns?





.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #76)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:42 PM

85. Do you support the President's position on the 2A?

"I believe the Second Amendment guarantees an individual the right to bear arms,"

Since AK-47s, the real ones, are tightly regulated by the National Firearms Act.
He gave lip service to the platform. His personal opinion on what rifles are OK for private ownership is different than mine. I'm OK with that. Personally, I'm hoping to see Nixon/Romneycare replaced by Trumancare (single payer).

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #85)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:46 PM

88. I SUPPORT ALL OF OBAMA's POSITIONS ON GUNS INCLUDING...

...."I believe the Second Amendment guarantees an individual the right to bear arms,"

How about you? Last time I saw a poll vote from you, you said you support NONE of the President's positions on guns.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117278996

Changing your mind?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #88)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:54 PM

96. I thought it was only the positions on the list

not in general.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #96)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:24 PM

137. Read the List

Support for Concealed weapons is on it for Retired Cops

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #137)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:31 PM

142. retired cops and politicians

should follow the same rules as the two of us.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #142)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:35 PM

143. OK

So that includes getting a license for a gun before using one when required by law?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #143)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:38 PM

146. where required.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #146)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:39 PM

147. So ..no amnesty.

Correct?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #147)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:43 PM

149. use is different than possession

Unlike cars. You can own a car without a license, just not drive it on public roads. Guns, in places that require them, the license is for possession not use. Rachel Maddow, AFAIK, doesn't have an NYC license but goes to a public range in Manhattan where she rents them. I'll have to find the episode where she mentions it.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #149)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:49 PM

153. How Many People Own Cars without a Driver's License?

Please do tell me since most jurisdictions require both car insurance and a license. I don't know of a single insurance company that insures a car owner without a license.

So...please do tell me.

How Many People Own Cars without a Driver's License?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #153)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:56 PM

159. search me

I'm sure some rich people. Mitt may not have one. Point is, it is legal.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #159)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:58 PM

161. Got It

Now tell me how many folks own guns who will never buy, use or own bullets.

Betting it's close to the same number.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #161)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:03 PM

162. collectors

especially of antique guns that ammo is no longer made, or can only be found at a Canadian gun show.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #162)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:03 PM

163. LOL

Of course...and NONE of them have or need a license.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #163)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 11:07 PM

165. some do

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #153)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:15 PM

238. Reality check.

 


Insurance companies do not check to even see if you actually have a license. It is possible to be unlicensed, buy and insure a car and let someone else with a license operate it and drive the purchaser around.

In other words a completly legal STRAW BUY.

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Response to Remmah2 (Reply #238)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 12:19 PM

240. NOT IN DC

In DC they most certainly do.

Title holder has to have insurance. Can't keep insurance without license in DC.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #240)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 01:15 PM

243. Twisting the facts

 

"I don't know of a single insurance company that insures a car owner without a license."

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Response to Remmah2 (Reply #243)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 04:22 PM

244. I don't.

Period.

Here is what I wrote. I DON'T know of a single one. If you do, please tell me.


Please do tell me since most jurisdictions require both car insurance and a license. I don't know of a single insurance company that insures a car owner without a license.

So...please do tell me.

How Many People Own Cars without a Driver's License?


Still waiting.

Now to bring it back to guns....


Now tell me how many folks own guns who will never buy, use or own bullets.
Betting it's close to the same number.



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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #244)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 04:36 PM

246. since you are asking, you come up with the number

the two have nothing to do with each other. How many gun collectors are there? in the tens of thousands, and they collect antiques. I know a college prof in BC that has one of the best collections of Nambu handguns in North America. She doesn't buy ammo for any of them. Ammo can't be found for them even if she wanted to. She got interested in gun collecting from her dad, who was an avid machine gun collector before Canada passed the 1977 law. She did inherit some of her dad's machine guns before the law was passed and has a Prohibited PAL for those guns. (Canada has four classes of PALs. Unrestricted, Restricted, Prohibited, and Minors. A to own grandfathered banned guns, you need a Prohibited license. A minor's permit allows 12-18 year olds to possess Unrestricted firearms without adult supervision and buy ammo.) That is one I know personally. Since I don't know any rich people who hires a driver, don't know of any of those. Oh yeah, I do know one. My daughter's boyfriend inherited a car and has no license. She drives him, but it is registered to him.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #246)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 04:39 PM

248. Ok


Your daughter's state?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #248)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 04:40 PM

249. Florida

the Nambu handgun collector is in BC. FWIW:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nambu_pistol
If you ever get a chance to check out a gun show in Canada, they are pretty cool. Much cooler than any I have been to in California and Florida.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #249)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 04:56 PM

251. Florida


FLORIDA

I am registering a vehicle for the first time in Florida. Is automobile insurance mandatory?

Yes. If you own a vehicle with at least four wheels and are registering it, you must have Florida insurance.
http://www.flhsmv.gov/ddl/frfaqgen.html

.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #251)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 05:26 PM

253. he pays for the insurance

but does not have a license. You asked about license in the previous post. One is purchased from the state, the other is purchased from a corporation. Please make up your mind.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #253)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 05:29 PM

254. OK

If you own and/or operate a car, you have to have insurance and a license in most if not all jurisdictions.

Not sure what's so hard to understand about that. If you disagree, please tell me where you can own a car without either.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #254)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 05:37 PM

256. Only if you drive on public roads.

If you keep the car on private property, such as on a ranch or farm, then you don't need a license or insurance as long as you completely own the vehicle.

You don't need a license to keep a gun on private property either, in most states. But you do need a license to carry it in public - in most states.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #254)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 05:45 PM

257. I doubt Mitt drives

that is what the servants are for.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #254)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 07:30 PM

266. Wrong

 

Here in MO there are ooodles of farms and ranches and most of the farm vehicles are neither licensed nor insured because they stay on the farms and ranches.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #244)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 07:13 PM

262. Fred Loya Insurance will write a policy without a license.

You don't even have to have an ID, or own a vehicle.

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #262)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 07:25 PM

265. State Still Requires

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #88)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:23 PM

136. If he really supported that, why did he nominate two gun-grabbers to the SC?

 

He's been terrible on this issue.

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Response to Ter (Reply #136)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:26 PM

139. Huh?

Supported what?

Terrible on what?

Gun Control?

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 07:15 PM

58. ANYONE SAYING THE PRESIDENT MADE A BIG MISTAKE SHOULD THINK HOW THEY ARE HELPING ROMNEY





Period.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #58)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:10 PM

66. If this is a TOS violation?

 

Why don't I see posts hidden or poster privileges revoked? Could it be that not everyone accepts your anti 1st Amendment interpretation of the TOS?

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #66)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:15 PM

68. HOGWASH

I don't need to send an alert to abate bad speech when it's so much easier to call it BS.

Of course 'not everyone' agrees with me.

Oh...and get a clue......this board is not protected first amendment speech. It's a private message board whose TOS specifically restricts constitutionally protected public speech.....because it's NOT public speech.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #68)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:23 PM

71. And yet ...

 

... you seem to be the only one who feels they should be enforced or even interpreted in the way you suggest.

Certainly the operators of this message board don't seem to agree with you. If you feel strongly enough, alert and see how far you get.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #71)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:25 PM

73. Read Post Again

No need.

Anything about guns or just your dislike of my speech?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #73)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:30 PM

77. It's not about guns ...

 

... it's about your confusing the USA with North Korea.

We don't have a "Dear Leader" who cannot be questioned. We have an elected human president who sometimes makes mistakes and an electorate who are DUTY BOUND as citizens to point out those mistakes.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #77)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:39 PM

83. Good Grief- Korea?

No, DU is not Korea. It is a private association that has a legal right to restrict speech on a message board and servers it pays for. Get a clue about Constitutional Law.


I support the President's position on guns.

You don't.

You undermine his election by doing so.

THAT is my truth about YOU.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #83)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:44 PM

87. What is Mitt's position?

how is it different than yours?

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #87)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:47 PM

89. I Could Care Less

Good Try.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #83)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:48 PM

90. So -- your position is ---

 

-- the President right or wrong?

I see that as fundamentally un-American and frankly something a Bush supporter would say.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #90)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:51 PM

93. I Support the President 100%


I Support the President 100%.

What exactly do you see un-American about that?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #93)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:57 PM

98. supporting and agreeing are two different things

your "disagree on one thing equals not supporting/undermining" is unAmerican. UnCanadian too come to think about it.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #98)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:03 PM

103. Huh?

And You Get That How?

I support the President. You don't...at least not on guns.

Am I wrong to say that the issue of the RKBAs doesn't rise to the level of importance to you to oppose the President simply because you support not a single position he has on guns?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #93)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:58 PM

100. I'm glad you support the President 100%

 

Your ideological purity is to be admired if not applauded.

But, and this is where we disagree, you cannot demand that others share your ideological purity without question -- THAT is not American.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #100)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:06 PM

104. Good Grief

Anything about guns?

Seriously....anything?

Other than you disagree with the Democratic Candidate for President about guns without raising one gun issue?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #104)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:26 PM

113. Right now ...

 

... I'm more concerned with your autonomic apostleship of the President and your demand we all accept it. That is fundamentally more hazardous to the American system than the gun legislation being discussed by either candidate.

He's the President, not the Bhagwan. We're allowed to differ on many issues without charges of heresy being raised.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #113)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:58 PM

128. Anything About Guns

THE issue at hand.

I agree with the President on his gun positions......you know....the topic of this board.

You don't.

And you think you can avoid the topic of guns or the President's position on guns by talking about anything other than guns.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #93)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 09:35 AM

212. Blind faith?

 

As with religion, blind faith will get one's ass in a bind. It may even get ya killed (Jim Jones).

Remember the 60's mantra "question authority"?

It's one thing to support an administration, another to blindly support them. We voted for them, technically they work for us.

Don't be a brick in the wall.

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Response to Remmah2 (Reply #212)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 09:42 AM

214. No

Informed Agreement.

If you disagree with the President on guns, say so.

I don't.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #214)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:30 AM

232. I disagree with his position on the AWB

 

It did nothing the last time around except help us lose control of the Congress, I do agree that the existing laws need to be better enforced. I am still going to vote for him as the alternative is just too unbearable, also, I know that any new AWB has a snowballs chance in hell passing the House or Senate, in the Senate, Harry Reid would never let it come up for a vote, he's very pro gun, and the House is controlled by the R's and a hell of alot of Dems are pro gun, so there really is nothing to worry about.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #232)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 11:18 AM

234. Ok

.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #83)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:41 PM

121. You support the President's position on guns?

 

Does that include his (the Presidents) support of CHL holders to carry in the National Forests?

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Response to jbgood1977 (Reply #121)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 09:47 PM

124. Sure

Do you support the AWB or limiting gun purchases to one a month?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #124)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:04 PM

129. No -- I do not.

 

When do I report to be burned at the stake?

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #129)

Wed Oct 17, 2012, 10:07 PM

130. No Need

Feel better?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #58)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 08:54 AM

208. The only thing that saves the President is that Romney has the same opinion - and lied about it.

 

The only saving grace for the President on this issue is that Romney is as anti-gun as he is, the only difference is he lied about it to gain NRA favor.

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Reply #208)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 09:23 AM

209. He did a flip flop.

 

In his previous life he was for a ban, now he says he's not in favor of one.

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Response to Remmah2 (Reply #209)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 09:43 AM

216. Yup, and the President called him on it, too.

 

And all Romney could do was sit there and sputter on, "B-b-but I got anti-gun and pro-gun people together!"

Together to do what?

Sign an assault weapons ban.

I wish President Obama had said that!

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 06:38 PM

260. Obama's statement is 100% Democratic Party Platform. It forces every Dem candidate to either

 

publicly reject part of her/his party's platform or be classed by silence as supporting the AWB with all the negatives we've posted here since DU began.

The platform says:
"Firearms. We recognize that the individual right to bear arms is an important part of the American tradition, and we will preserve Americans’ Second Amendment right to own and use firearms. We believe that the right to own firearms is subject to reasonable regulation. We understand the terrible consequences of gun violence; it serves as a reminder that life is fragile, and our time here is limited and precious. We believe in an honest, open national conversation about firearms. We can focus on effective enforcement of existing laws, especially strengthening our background check system, and we can work together to enact commonsense improvements – like reinstating the assault weapons ban and closing the gun show loophole – so that guns do not fall into the hands of those irresponsible, law-breaking few."
http://assets.dstatic.org/dnc-platform/2012-National-Platform.pdf

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Response to jody (Reply #260)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 09:46 PM

272. And I am PROUD to reject this part of our party's platform

First Amendment. Gotta love it.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #272)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 09:50 PM

273. derby378 & jody, well 2 is a start. Anyone else want to join us? nt

 

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Response to jody (Reply #273)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:23 PM

277. Me. I'm proud to reject that part of the platform.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #277)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:32 PM

280. Come raise your glass with us!

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Response to jody (Reply #273)

Thu Oct 18, 2012, 10:58 PM

287. You got friends. Count me in. n/t

 

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Response to jody (Reply #273)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 11:39 AM

293. I support everything in the platform EXCEPT those two items

 

i.e. the "AW" ban and "gun show loophole" clauses.

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Response to jody (Reply #273)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 02:55 AM

306. Include me in. NT

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Response to jody (Reply #260)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 11:17 AM

291. I SUPPORT OUR PLATFORM ON GUNS PROUDLY

Best and most reasoned gun platform in years.

Evidentally, the VAST MAJORITY of elected party delegates do too.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #291)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 11:36 AM

292. Who cares if the VAST MAJORITY of elected party delegates do too?

 

They don't speak for the whole party. I vehemently disagree with the renewal of the AWB, it did absolutely nothing the last time except help us lose the Congress to the dark side, it will do nothing again. It won't drop the crime rate, it won't make the streets safer, it's just a feel good bullshit position that will lose us support from rural Dems.
Tell me, what's the difference between this "Assault weapon"



And this "Assault weapon"?



Answer, None. They're both the exact same weapon, Ruger Mini 14's.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #292)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 11:47 AM

294. Who Cares

Well obviously you don't . LOL

The majority of Democrats have elected party delegates who do and it's FANTASTIC.

I am very proud of our party for there support of the Second Amendment and the AWB.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #294)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 11:51 AM

295. So tell us

 

what good did the AWB do back in 94? How did it lower crime rates? What weapons did it actually ban? How did the Mag. limit reduce crime? Were >10round mags banned then? How often are these rifles used in crimes?

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #295)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 02:15 PM

297. Give Me a Report and Let Me Know

If you think the collective opinion of the Democratic Convention and Party regarding firearms is wrong, convince us. Share your statistics. Supporters of the Party Platform's position on firearms have already made their case and they won. I'm not the one who has to convince anyone. Those who share my opinion already have made our case.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #297)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 03:46 PM

299. Here you go.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

Expiration of the ban
Opponents of the ban claimed that its expiration has seen little if any increase in crime, while Senator Diane Feinstein claimed the ban was effective because "It was drying up supply and driving up prices. The number of those guns used in crimes dropped because they were fewer available." A spokesman for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) stated that he "can in no way vouch for the validity" of Brady Campaign's claim that the ban was responsible for violent crime's decline.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention studied the "assault weapon" ban and other gun control attempts, and found "insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws reviewed for preventing violence." A 2004 critical review of research on firearms by a National Research Council panel also noted that academic studies of the assault weapon ban "did not reveal any clear impacts on gun violence" and noted "due to the fact that the relative rarity with which the banned guns were used in crime before the ban ... the maximum potential effect of the ban on gun violence outcomes would be very small...."

Effect on crimeThe United States Department of Justice National Institute of Justice found should the ban be renewed, its effects on gun violence would likely be small, and perhaps too small for reliable measurement, because rifles in general, including rifles referred to as "assault rifles" or "assault weapons", are rarely used in gun crimes.

That study by Christopher S. Koper, Daniel J. Woods, and Jeffrey A. Roth of the Jerry Lee Center of Criminology, University of Pennsylvania found no statistically significant evidence that either the assault weapons ban or the ban on magazines holding more than 10 bullets had reduced gun murders. However, they concluded that it was "premature to make definitive assessments of the ban's impact on gun crime," and argue that if the ban had been in effect for more than nine years, benefits might have begun to appear.

Research by John Lott in the 2000 second edition of More Guns, Less Crime provided the first research on state and the Federal Assault Weapon Bans. The 2010 third edition provided the first empirical research on the 2004 sunset of the Federal Assault Weapon Ban. Generally, the research found no impact of these bans on violent crime rates, though the third edition provided some evidence that Assault Weapon Bans slightly increased murder rates. Lott's book The Bias Against Guns provided evidence that the bans reduced the number of gun shows by over 20 percent. Koper, Woods, and Roth studies focus on gun murders, while Lott's looks at murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assaults. Unlike their work, Lott's research accounted for state Assault Weapon Bans and 12 other different types of gun control laws.

The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence examined the impact of the Assault Weapons Ban in its 2004 report, On Target: The Impact of the 1994 Federal Assault Weapon Act. Examining 1.4 million guns involved in crime, it determined that since the law was enacted, "assault weapons have made up only 1.61% of the guns ATF has traced to crime — a drop of 66% from the pre-ban rate."


Getting ready to head out to Busch Stadium to watch the Cardinals finish off the Giants and win the NLCS.
You have a good day and will probably talk later tonight or tomorrow.




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Response to glacierbay (Reply #299)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 05:26 PM

300. Doesn't Change My Vote

Forward to other Party members and/or delegates and try convincing them. Doesn't change my vote. The 1.6% reduction in crime would be great and worth the ban.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #300)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 05:44 PM

302. the ban didn't do it

that's the point. There is no evidence the ban did anything. To think how a flash suppressor or pistol grip changed anything is absurd. All they had to do was remove the flash suppressor and or the bayonet lug, the gun became legal to sell as new. Do you seriously think that just because that weapon isn't there, a crime would be deterred? There is a logical fallacy for that. While gun control supporters like to point to Canada, without knowing anything about their laws, but there is a slight problem. Their rates were lower than ours when their federal laws were, on balance, as strict or laxer than ours. While they had a handgun licensing and registration since 1934 (but could just buy a machine gun until 1977. They did start a machine gun registry without licensing in 1952, but not the background checks or tax like the NFA does in the US)

Truth is most anti gun people realize gun bans don't reduce murder or other violent crimes.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0047235209000932

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #302)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:35 PM

303. Glacierbay Said

....it cut gun violent crime. That works for me.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #303)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 08:15 PM

305. That is a lie.

 

He stated no such thing and you know it.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #303)


Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #300)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 09:25 AM

308. 1.6%? Not really

Because it would simply be done with the same gun, except one of the cosmetic features would be removed so it would not be an "assault weapon".




If I was to gun somebody down with this gun:



I would have killed somebody with a "regular" rifle.




If I was to gun somebody down with THIS gun:



I,also, would have killed somebody with a "regular" rifle.




If I was to gun somebody down with THIS gun, though:



Well, now I'm part of the 1.6% that was done with an "assault weapon".





The problem is, though, that it's the same gun with different stocks screwed onto it:








Likewise, this is an "assault weapon":






But this isn't:





Can you really tell me that the Colorado shooting would have been different if Sideshow Bob had used the bottom AR-15 instead of the top one?

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #308)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 10:00 AM

309. So.....

.....let's assume what you say is true.... Then you should have no problem with the ban since.....according to you.....there is a 'work around.' What's the problem again?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #309)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 10:43 AM

310. pointless theater that distracts from real issues

is the first problem. It made Newt Speaker of the House is the second.
The only good thing that came out of it was that the NRA helped Bernie Sanders unseat a Republican who voted for it.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #310)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 10:51 AM

311. Give Me a Break

The gun 'issue' did not make Gingrich speaker.

If the AWB diverts attention, doesn't matter and is pointless, please pass it immediately so we can move on to the really important issues.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #311)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 10:56 AM

312. It was certainly a big contributing factor

 

Last edited Sat Oct 20, 2012, 11:41 AM - Edit history (1)

even Bill Clinton said it was in his book, My Life.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #312)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 11:04 AM

314. No

I will say I misread 1.6% assault weapons for 1.6% reduction in crime. I will apologize for that, but not for what you characterize as a lie. It was not intentional. It was inaccurate. Too bad you didn't just say that.

As for Gingrich, it may have been a factor (according to you and taking you at your word Clinton), but it was just that....perhaps a factor for some. It didn't get him elected Speaker.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #314)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 11:24 AM

316. I will retract my statement saying that it was a lie

 

and I thank you for the apology.
In his book, My Life, Pres. Clinton said himself that the NRA was responsible for the defeat of many, many Congresscritters and Senators because of their vote on the AWB in 1993, there were other factors involved for the loss of congress, but we might have held the congress that year if Clinton had withdrawn the AWB from the Crime Omnibus bill like Jack Brooks begged him to do.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #316)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 11:27 AM

317. Fair Enough and Thanks

Haven't read his book...need too...and I don't disagree it might have been a factor for some. I just think there were many reasons we lost the house that year...including the failed health care reform and other factors.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #317)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 11:37 AM

319. Absolutely part of it was the Health Care debacle

 

also the Congressional Post Office scandal, it was the perfect storm that hit the Dems that year, but if Pres. Clinton had just withdrawn the AWB, it's quite possible we would have held onto one of the 2 branches of Congress.
I highly recommend reading Bill Clinton's book, it's a fascinating book.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #319)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 11:50 AM

322. Will Do

Did read Mrs Clinton's book. Another truly great read is Teddy Kennedy's book but I digress.

Not sure I agree with your assessment but reasonable people can disagree.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #322)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 12:06 PM

324. No I haven't read either book

 

but will definitely look into them.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #317)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 11:43 AM

320. 1 post deleted and 1 post edited.

 

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #320)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 11:48 AM

321. Thank you again

.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #309)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 10:59 AM

313. That doesn't make any damn sense

 

why would you ban something that hasn't been a problem?

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #313)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 11:09 AM

315. Oh We Disagree on That

....but if your team says it doesn't matter and you'll find alternative and similar guns and the debate over the ban is a distraction from other important issues without offering any other objection, you have no reason to object to passing the ASB so we can quickly move on to those issues.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #315)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 11:31 AM

318. That's where we definitely disagree

 

why make an issue out of it and give the NRA more fodder to spew?
Why call for a ban when it's been proven time and time again that so called assault weapons have no discernible impact on crime? Doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me unless Pres. Obama is pandering to org. like the Brady org., VPC and the other myriad of gun control groups out there.
He knows damn good and well that another AWB will never fly in the congress so why even mention it?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #309)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 03:07 PM

326. Here's the problems.

1) It's stupid to begin with. Legislatures should not make stupid laws; that I think is a good general principle for lawmakers in general.

2) Because gun-owners and those knowledgeable of guns have the facts on their side, it makes passage of a ban only possible if reason and intelligence and informed debate is suppressed, and what Charlie Pierce called "Idiot America" is allowed to dominate. The foolish Gut, and not the Brain. This is how the right-wing functions, and I really don't want it to infect the Left any more than necessary.

2) It wastes legislative time and political capital. It makes Democrats scarce and Republicans plentiful, which inhibits EVERYTHING ELSE Democrats want to accomplish.

3) It activates gun owners, who tend to vote Republican, while having a neutral effect on non-gun owners, who tend to vote Democratic.

4) It illustrates a fundamental and overlooked fact that people that choose to own guns will organize and pay to protect their choice, while people that choose NOT to own guns have to do absolutely nothing to protect their choice.

5) It glosses over real solutions to our problem with violence. Legalizing pot, for example, make far more sense and will do far more to lower the homicide rate than splitting hairs over a list of acceptable cosmetic features. But this entire concept is perceived as being far to extreme for a mainstream party or politician to bring up.

6) It's politically weak tea, a blatant pander attempt that most people can see through. Knowing what I posted previously to your reply, the only honest position on banning 'assault weapons' is to work towards banning all semi-automatic long guns, period. Trying to differentiate between "assault weapon" semi-automatic guns and "acceptable for sporting or self-defense" semi-automatic guns is both arbitrary and a waste of time, unless you're trying to pander. It's like those people that try to say "I want to outlaw abortion except in cases of rape or incest". Well, that's a completely pander-bear position; if life begins at inception (or implantation), then the origin of the life is irrelevant. Can I stab the adult offspring of rape to death with impunity? No, I can't. Either life begins at birth, or it begins at conception/implantation. Saying "well, it depends" is just pandering. It's people who are trying to rationalize or soften their positions to make them acceptable to the masses.

7) By your admission, it creates an easily-circumventable work-around... which will of course need to be fixed at some point in the future. Many people will logically and reasonably conclude that you're trying to pass something with known flaws so you have the door open to increased regulation or whatever in the future.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #291)

Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:51 PM

304. "Evidentally, the VAST MAJORITY of elected party delegates do too." IMO they are just as woefully

 

ignorant of the legal subtleties of AWB as Obama and Romney.

My question is when does ignorant become stupid?

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Response to jody (Reply #304)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 11:54 AM

323. The Majority of the Party Leadership is Ignorant?

I think you answered your own question by suggesting they are.

That is just stupid.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #323)

Sat Oct 20, 2012, 12:55 PM

325. I did not suggest, I asserted they are ignorant. Their public statements are so pathetic they border

 

on tragic comedy, e.g. Rep McCarty "I believe it is a shoulder thing that goes up."

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #327)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 12:35 AM

328. Man o Man, I am amazed at how some can start foaming at the mouth! LOL BUMP.....

Need lots of duct tape in here!

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