Lax gun laws in America normalize violence

[SecularMotion]

Imagine walking into the Point Cafe and knowing that somewhere between the milkshake machine and refrigerated Snapple is a student with a gun. Now picture what the campus atmosphere would feel like if dancers packed pistols next to their pointe shoes, or athletes stowed revolvers in the locker room.

Luckily this is not yet a reality at Point Park University, but students at public universities in Colorado, Mississippi, Oregon, Utah and Wisconsin are permitted by law to carry concealed firearms on campus after obtaining the proper license.

While only five states have passed this legislation, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures, another 24 states allow individual universities to decide whether or not students can carry firearms on campus. Pennsylvania is one of them.

Furthermore, with several other states putting forth bills that, if passed, would work in favor of pro-gun activists, I fear for the future of education and the safety of students.

http://www.pointparkglobe.com/opinions/lax-gun-laws-in-america-normalize-violence-1.2916358#.UGsaKKNTi1s

[fascisthunter]

1. but think of the profits

[Eleanors38]

20. Actually, I was thinking of the falling crime rates -- that's getting "normal." nt

[Pacafishmate]

57. Always making it about profits eh?

Like there aren't any non-corporate entities that support the right to carry...

[fascisthunter]

61. you are right... it's about paranoia too

[Pacafishmate]

62. Does anyone else think it's ironic that..

The anti-fascist is telling us what we can and can't have, how we can and can't think?

[glacierbay]

2. Ok

now point out where the problems have been at these universities that allow students with CCW? How many shootings or crimes committed by legally armed students?

[rDigital]

3. Really? Really!? It's absurd to even mention that students should be allowed to carry firearms

to protect their lives from deadly threats. They should just get really good at running and book throwing.

As for rape: Just let the rapist do his/her business, I'm sure he/she'll leave you unharmed after the deed is done. Possible transmission of lethal STD's are just par for the course for college students.

What if they get mad at the professor for giving them an F? ZOMG! Blood bath city place! Those Utah Professors have been living under the gun for sometime now. Have you seen the plexi-glass teaching booths they use in class now? It's wild. Murder-death-killers everywhere.

[SecularMotion]

4. Are you a member of Students for Concealed Carry?

[glacierbay]

5. There's a question pending for you

can you provide links showing that legally permitted students have been problematic at the universities that allow for CC?
If it's such a big problem, or for that matter, any problem at all, there must be stories about it.
I googled it and I can't find one story about a shooting or crime committed by a legally permitted student at any of the universities that allow for CC.
Maybe you have better google-fu than me.

[rDigital]

13. No. Do you support complete civilian disarmament?

[SecularMotion]

15. Of course not, why do you keep trying to smear people who mention gun control as extremist?

That's a right wing NRA tactic to disrupt discussions. Why are the gunners here so opposed to discussion of reasonable gun regulations?

[gejohnston]

16. first, define reasonable

and is this reasonable discussion a two way street or is it a Mittesque "we define reasonable and you just take what we give you, even though we have no idea what we are talking about"?

[glacierbay]

17. Guess I'm not going to get and answer.

That's ok, I already know the answer. There are no incidents of legally armed students causing problems on campuses that allow for CC.

[SecularMotion]

22. The absence of reported incidents

among a minuscule percent of college students who are legally armed is meaningless.

[glacierbay]

26. So in other words

there is no problem with legally armed students. Why didn't you just say that?

[SecularMotion]

27. You don't speak for me

[glacierbay]

28. Never said I did. nt.

[oneshooter]

29. And you refuse to speak for yourself.

[Callisto32]

30. Neither do you, apparently.

[SecularMotion]

31. I normally refrain from engaging NRAbots in any sort of discussion

They are dishonest by nature and can only respond with talking points.

See post #26 as an example.

[oneshooter]

32. Now you insult me by calling me a "NRAbot".

[glacierbay]

33. Now I'm an NRAbot?

Even though I've never belonged to the NRA? What NRA talking point did I supposedly say? I noticed that when you get destroyed in a debate here, you start yelling NRAbot, NRAbot, or NRA talking points.

[SecularMotion]

34. Do you consider yourself to be a gun lobbyist?

[glacierbay]

36. Hardly

Last edited Tue Oct 2, 2012, 06:44 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm a Police Officer. However I also believe in the 2A and I do support the concept of CC as long as it is done legally.

[SecularMotion]

37. What do you feel the requirements should be for legal carry?

As a police officer, do you have any concerns for your own safety or the safety of the public with armed citizens?

[glacierbay]

46. I'm satisfied with the requirements of my state for CC

I don't have any concerns for the citizen who took the time to go through the steps to obtain his/her permit, I've dealt with hundreds over my career and the vast majority of them have been polite, level headed citizens, of course you're always going to have a very few who are assholes, but if they're not violating any law, then I have no reason to hassle them, I just write my citation, or give a warning and send them on their merry way.
The one I have concerns for are the criminals who don't care what the CC laws are and will carry regardless of the consequences.
When I'm not on the job, I don't carry at all unless I'm hunting, I have to carry a gun 4 days a week, 10 hours a day, my off time is my time to spend with the wife, kids and grandkids and I am just another citizen.

[SecularMotion]

47. What are the requirements of your state for concealed carry?

[glacierbay]

48. Here are MO. state requirements

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c500-599/5710000101.htm

[SecularMotion]

50. I think the requirements and restrictions for concealed carry in Missouri are reasonable

as long as all requirements and training are followed.


Missouri Concealed Carry Permit Information

http://www.usacarry.com/missouri_concealed_carry_permit_information.html

Firearms training requirements--safety instructor requirements--penalty for violations.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000111.HTM

There's a lot we can all agree on here without arguing extremes and name-calling.

What I don't agree with here is the PR and marketing from the gun lobby and manufacturers to push guns into the hands of people who may not be able to assume the responsibility of carrying a weapon in public. They know they're playing a dangerous game. They have taken steps to protect manufacturers and carriers from liability for accidents and bad judgments made by irresponsible gun carriers.

[glacierbay]

51. I agree

there is a lot of room for compromise on both sides of the issue. I'm always open to new ideas.

[oneshooter]

55. Do you activly support the Brady Campaign or the VPC?

[oneshooter]

38. Do you activly support the Brady Campaign or the VPC?

[Clames]

18. You are absolutely guilty of such smears.

Are you anti-gun? Yes you are. Are you guilty of Brady Campaign/VPC/MAIG talking points? Yes you are. Why are anti-gunners so convinced that what they advocate is reasonable or that they hold some monopoly on what defines "reasonable" or "common sense"?

[SecularMotion]

24. Do you support the NRA agenda?

Do you consider yourself to be a gun lobbyist?

[oneshooter]

40. Do you activly support the Brady Campaign or the VPC?

[gejohnston]

44. whenever I see "the _____ agenda"

I tend to tune out because on some level I associate the phase with the "Christian" right, you know "gay agenda" "liberal agenda"

[Clames]

45. Not a NRA member.

I consider myself to be a gun hobbyist.

Are you a MAIG member? Do you consider yourself to be an anti-gun lobbyist?

[rDigital]

19. What gun rights do you champion?

[SecularMotion]

23. Are you a member of Students for Concealed Carry?

[rDigital]

39. No. Again, What gun rights do you champion?

[oneshooter]

41. Do you activly support the Brady Campaign or the VPC?

[Eleanors38]

21. Maybe the place to start is not with a discussion "...of reasonable gun regulations." Maybe we...

should start with defining societal problems; particular crimes, crime in general, home life or lack thereof, and then try to see what role, if any, the central government should have in solving or lessening these societal problems. Discussions of "gun regulations" presupposes that such would affect clearly-defined societal problems, and that has not been shown to be the case.

[4th law of robotics]

9. That's the point of these articles

they're outraged because GUNS!

But they can't find any logical reason to be outraged.

So they change the tune: doesn't this all sound so unpleasant?

What if instead of having fun and learning in college everyone had guns and killed each other? That's not nice. Wouldn't you rather have fun and learn new things than be murdered?

[bongbong]

6. The cowards are spreading

Now there are college students that are too scared to leave the house without a gun.

You'd think that they'd have a smidgen of courage, especially since they're facing college, but you never know.

[4th law of robotics]

10. Narf!

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

14. You really need to...

...add a note when not adding "delicate flowers" or one of your other signature terms to a post. I had to read that one again to see if I missed it.

[oneshooter]

42. Do you activly support the Brady Campaign or the VPC?

[bongbong]

56. support

I support getting Delicate Flowers the help they need so they aren't so scared of everyday life.

[Reasonable_Argument]

7. I don't want you to poop your pampers

But if you live in a state with concealed carry, chances are at some point there was a man with a loaded weapon between you and the deli counter. Yet amazingly, no one got hurt. No shoot outs or people waving weapons around. You weren't even aware of it. Just normal people going about their day, with the exception that some have a weapon on their hip to protect themselves. I hate to poke that little bubble you've created around yourself, but people like me who carry everyday and everywhere are out there. We're not stalking the isles at the low ready just wanting to shoot someone. We smile, we're polite, and you never have the slightest clue that I have a Glock 36 with two extra magazines on me. Welcome to the real world, enjoy your stay.

[SecularMotion]

11. Enjoy the fear that drives your need to be armed everywhere you go.

[Berserker]

25. What is there to

fear? we have guns.

[oneshooter]

43. Do you activly support the Brady Campaign or the VPC?

[4th law of robotics]

8. That entire screed is an appeal to emotion

"Imagine if" and doesn't this all seem so . . . so . . . not nice!

They don't cite any instances where legal carry led to tragedy on university campuses because well they can't.

[Atypical Liberal]

12. I fail to see the problem with CCW on campus.

If I'm 21 years old and have had a background check and hold a CCW permit and I can walk down main street with a gun, why can't I go to my night classes with one?

There have been no problems at any of the colleges and universities that presently allow CCW on campus.

There have been shootings at colleges that prohibit firearms on campus.

Anyone who wants to bring a gun onto a college campus and shoot someone can easily do so whether it is against the policies or not, or even if it is against the law or not.

Amy Bishop walked into my class building on the UAH campus and shot 6 people, killing 3. The rules and laws did not matter to her, and since no one frisks people when they come to school, nothing could stop her.

[former-republican]

35. .............

[virginia mountainman]

49. This op is an example of......

Poutrage.....

[ileus]

52. Safety first, victim later.

[Reasonable_Argument]

53. It's not about safety

It's about people who have sheltered themselves in academia and think they're so superior for their belief that "weapons are barbaric".

[rrneck]

54. Weapons are barbaric. They're also necessary. nt

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

58. re: arms and arms dealers

"You call me evil, but unfortunately for you, I'm a necessary evil." Yuri Orlov (Lord of War)

[rrneck]

59. One of my favorite movies. nt

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

60. agreed

The first and most important rule of gun-running is: Never get shot with your own merchandise.