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Thu Sep 6, 2012, 03:50 PM

Gunman robs woman at church.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Victim-Robbed-by-Gunman-Inside-Church-168715026.html

A gunman robbed someone at a church in northwest D.C. over the weekend.

Before 12:30 p.m. Saturday a gunman entered St. Stephenís in the 1500 block of Newton Street, demanded money from the victim and ordered the victim to the ground, police said. The gunman went through the victimís pockets, taking personal property including cash, a wallet and an iPhone.

The gunman also pointed the handgun at a woman who entered the room, police.

The gunman then fled.
SNIP


There are people here who seem to think that there is no need for self-defense at church. The purpose of this post is to prove to them that churches are not immune to violent criminals comming on their property to attack people. Since violent crime can happen anywhere, I carry everywhere it is legal to do so.

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Arrow 42 replies Author Time Post
Reply Gunman robs woman at church. (Original post)
GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 OP
DanTex Sep 2012 #1
Atypical Liberal Sep 2012 #8
tblue Sep 2012 #2
GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #7
Fresh_Start Sep 2012 #3
X_Digger Sep 2012 #4
rDigital Sep 2012 #5
ileus Sep 2012 #6
safeinOhio Sep 2012 #9
gejohnston Sep 2012 #10
X_Digger Sep 2012 #11
GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #13
safeinOhio Sep 2012 #14
gejohnston Sep 2012 #15
safeinOhio Sep 2012 #17
ProgressiveProfessor Sep 2012 #18
GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #26
safeinOhio Sep 2012 #29
gejohnston Sep 2012 #31
GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #33
GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #36
GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #12
safeinOhio Sep 2012 #16
ProgressiveProfessor Sep 2012 #19
safeinOhio Sep 2012 #20
GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #28
spin Sep 2012 #37
glacierbay Sep 2012 #21
safeinOhio Sep 2012 #22
glacierbay Sep 2012 #23
safeinOhio Sep 2012 #24
glacierbay Sep 2012 #25
GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #27
safeinOhio Sep 2012 #30
glacierbay Sep 2012 #32
GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #34
GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #35
safeinOhio Sep 2012 #38
Trunk Monkey Sep 2012 #39
GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #40
Remmah2 Sep 2012 #41
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #42

Response to GreenStormCloud (Original post)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 03:52 PM

1. Too bad there wasn't a gun hero there to get into a shootout with the bad guy!

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Response to DanTex (Reply #1)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 08:35 PM

8. Criminals everywhere agree with DanTex!

 

Fine company you keep, Dan!

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Original post)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 03:56 PM

2. Please tell me which church you go to

so I don't accidentally go there. (Not that I would anyway.)

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Response to tblue (Reply #2)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 07:09 PM

7. Why? Are you planning on doing something violent to an innocent there?

I'm not the only one who carries concealed there. In fact, the church even has concealed carry classes.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Original post)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 03:58 PM

3. The gun man agrees with you. There's a great reason to have guns at hand. nt

nt

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Original post)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 04:00 PM

4. But..but.. but.. churches are sacrosanct!

Surely no criminal would enter a church! Unpossible!

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Original post)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 05:48 PM

5. Impossible, no one would ever attack a church or it's parishioners. It's against the rules. nt

 

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Original post)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 06:34 PM

6. To bad there wasn't a legal carrier to help stop the attack.

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Response to ileus (Reply #6)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 08:50 PM

9. Attack?

He took the money and left with no one injured.

The Lord works in mysterious ways.


Were you wishing for the guy to kill her so it would look like more guns in churches are needed? Why not just be happy no one was hurt?

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #9)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 08:58 PM

10. personally, I'm glad no one was hurt

It does work in mysterious ways, reminds me of a scene from one of my favorite movies.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #9)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 09:20 PM

11. Armed Robbery isn't an attack?

Fancy that.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #11)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 09:34 PM

13. He frequently tries to minimize the criminality of the perp. N/T

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #13)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 10:54 PM

14. It's frequently been said by extremist gun rights folks

that even if you give up the money, you will still be shot and killed.
Thanks for the google dump that disproves that.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #14)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 10:55 PM

15. sometimes or even frequently does not equal always

You would be correct if anyone said "always"

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #15)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 10:58 PM

17. Sometimes "frequently" means never,

if you see what one member post here.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #14)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 11:20 PM

18. I would not consider the OP a Google dump

The poster discussed the citation directly and related to gun control/gun rights

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #14)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 12:25 AM

26. That's not what we say.

We say the giving up the money is NOT a guarantee that the criminal will let you go unharmed. Sometimes the perp will kill you anyway, and we have posted news stories that prove that SOMETIMES they do kill anyway. Please note that sometimes does not equal always.

One has to evaluate the situation. Sometimes do what he says, sometimes fight. If you are armed, then fighting if you have to is an option.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #26)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 12:36 AM

29. So, you are saying that in this case

"One has to evaluate the situation. Sometimes do what he says, sometimes fight"? The person didn't fight and lived to fight or not fight again. Or, if the person had reached to pull a gun, she might be dead.


"That's not what we say"? You mean it's not nice to make up what people frequently say?

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #29)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 12:42 AM

31. might have, might not have.

I read someplace where there is a parallel universe where each possibility resulted. The only thing we know for certain is that the least worst scenario played itself out in the one we share.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #29)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 12:52 AM

33. There are no guarantees.

Your best bet is to have as many options available as possible.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #14)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 01:15 AM

36. Sometimes that does happen, as in this case:

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/f4d8869beb234ea0bb3a68cbba22a9c8/CA--Naked-Teen-Shot

SACRAMENTO, Calif. ó Police say a teenager in Sacramento was ordered at gunpoint to strip naked during a robbery and then shot in the lower body.

KCRA-TV reports (http://bit.ly/NPbtjo ) that the victim was shot near the American River bike trail on Wednesday afternoon, and that a suspect has been arrested.


Sometimes you can do what they say and still get shot, or cut, or beaten.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #9)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 09:33 PM

12. Yes, attack.

An armed robbery is a violent attack, even if no one is injured.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #12)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 10:56 PM

16. I've been the victim of an armed robbery and

it wasn't nearly as violent as being punched in the face.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #16)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 11:22 PM

19. I've been the victim of a home invasion robbery and it was violent

Then again, it was my wife who shot and killed one of the perps while I was busy wrestling with the other.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #19)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 11:47 PM

20. Now that sounds, down and dirty violent.

I'm glad you came out on top and hope you've taken future steps to secure your home.

As for securing a church, that is something my church has worked on. We lock all but one door when the service starts and one person gets up and welcomes anyone that comes in. This person is also checking any unknown visitors, looking for anything unusual. We have instructed our people to not get down on the floor. They would then be easy shots for a gun man. Keep moving to become less of a target. We have a meeting place to go to if anything happens so everyone can be accounted for. We've made sure all of our doors can be unlocked without a key from only the inside. Another one of our churches had a mass killing. The shooter came in with a guitar case with a shotgun in it. We will not let anything like that happen. No one is armed, but we don't post that on our door. A well regulated defense plan requires that weapons are in the hands of trained people and are in the correct position to take action. We don't feel they are important to us as we have most bases already covered. We have a plan. The best way to stop a shooter, is at the door. That is the same for home invasions, the best way to stop one is with security measures that will stop or at least slow an intruder. A weapon can be important as your case shows, but it should only be as a last resort.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #20)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 12:33 AM

28. Despite all our other conflicts, I completely agree with you on this post.

The gun is the last resort. Harden the home. In public keep good situational awareness and avoid trouble by seeing it coming. I have some DVD on self-defense and they all stress avoidance first, fighting last.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #20)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 01:27 AM

37. Excellent post and excellent advise. (n/t)

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #16)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 11:48 PM

21. Any armed robbery is violent

 

whether anyone is injured, or not, whether anyone is killed or not.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #21)

Thu Sep 6, 2012, 11:50 PM

22. I agree, but you must admit that

no injury or death is way less violent.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #22)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 12:06 AM

23. Physically, yes

 

Mentally, no, it can be a very traumatic incident that some people will never get over. I've interviewed my share of armed robbery victims and I've seen first hand the devastating effects is has, but, at least, they were still alive to be interviewed.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #23)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 12:17 AM

24. Shooting and killing another human being can also

have life time scares, even in self defense.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #24)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 12:20 AM

25. Yes it can.

 

But that's a mental issue also. I've never had to in the line of duty and I pray that I never have to, came close a few times, but so far, (knocks on wood) not yet.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #16)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 12:28 AM

27. Your case is the most common, I do not deny it.

But it is still an attack on you by violent means.

Most armed robberies are concluded with no injuries, but sometimes the thug wants an extra thrill, or wants to build street cred as a certified bad ass.

Therefore, I am always armed.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #27)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 12:42 AM

30. For me, getting jumped by 5 guys

was fucking violent. Even ended up a little violent for them too.

Half the time it's not even a real gun, or the idiot doesn't know how to take the safety off. People don't become criminals because they are Mensa members.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #30)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 12:47 AM

32. The IQ of most criminals

 

makes my job a whole lot easier.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #30)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 12:59 AM

34. Modify that to: They don't become street criminals.

There are lots of smart criminals. But that gets us into another topic.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #30)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 01:03 AM

35. Jumped by five guys I would start shooting.

Hopefully I would have spotted them targeting me and have been able to be ready. My gun only holds 7 rounds, including the one in the chamber.

Glad you survived.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #35)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 06:39 AM

38. I solved that risk years ago.

I no longer hang out at bars after they close. In fact I no longer hang out at bars. I stay away from situations I use to that place me in danger. I got older and smarter.

If one stays away from the wrong people, stays away from places, when possible, where danger happens, do not get involved with married or involved ladies, stays away from drugs and alcohol. Then takes reasonable precautions, like securing the home, you'll be just fine, with or without a gun. Sure stuff happens, but your odds increase of being safe if you follow some basic rules.

While having a gun can make one safer, it can also have negative results like accidents. Just like the story you posted, there are many that go wrong, just google accidental shooting.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #38)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 06:43 AM

39. This

 

I no longer hang out at bars after they close. In fact I no longer hang out at bars. I stay away from situations I use to that place me in danger. I got older and smarter.



Will do away with about 90% of your problems

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #38)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 07:48 AM

40. Indeed, avoidance is the best defense.

I consider the risk of an accidental discharge to be next to zero. I'm pretty careful with that gun.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #38)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 09:33 AM

41. Ditto.

 

It's part of situational awareness.

From several articles I've read, often times victims were targeted due to their lack of paying attention to their surroundings. I can't stand walking or biking w/ear phones in. I like to see and hear what's going on around me. People who are focused on their texting, cell phones, I-Pods and other stuff while moving through public spaces are generally not paying attention to potential danger near by.

If you look like you're aware, you're generally passed over as a potential victim.

Human predators are evil.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Original post)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 10:06 AM

42. Seems pretty straightforward

 

and yet the antis will quickly forget (or have already ignored) this and claim there is no need to carry a gun in church. Then make all sorts of offtopic snarky comments about what guy would jesus carry.

Sigh.

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