HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Justice & Public Safety » Gun Control & RKBA (Group) » This message was self-del...

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:00 PM

This message was self-deleted by its author

This message was self-deleted by its author (apocalypsehow) on Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:11 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

135 replies, 12415 views

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 135 replies Author Time Post
Reply This message was self-deleted by its author (Original post)
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 OP
pnwmom Sep 2012 #1
NewMoonTherian Sep 2012 #3
pnwmom Sep 2012 #5
gejohnston Sep 2012 #8
pnwmom Sep 2012 #18
gejohnston Sep 2012 #23
pnwmom Sep 2012 #97
gejohnston Sep 2012 #112
pnwmom Sep 2012 #124
gejohnston Sep 2012 #130
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #132
PavePusher Sep 2012 #131
GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #93
NewMoonTherian Sep 2012 #12
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #26
ManiacJoe Sep 2012 #49
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #64
NewMoonTherian Sep 2012 #54
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #65
NewMoonTherian Sep 2012 #125
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #127
rDigital Sep 2012 #79
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #128
upaloopa Sep 2012 #126
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #129
gejohnston Sep 2012 #4
pnwmom Sep 2012 #7
gejohnston Sep 2012 #11
pnwmom Sep 2012 #15
gejohnston Sep 2012 #20
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #24
gejohnston Sep 2012 #27
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #28
gejohnston Sep 2012 #29
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #32
gejohnston Sep 2012 #37
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #39
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #13
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #10
elleng Sep 2012 #2
gejohnston Sep 2012 #6
pnwmom Sep 2012 #14
gejohnston Sep 2012 #17
pnwmom Sep 2012 #19
gejohnston Sep 2012 #21
rDigital Sep 2012 #22
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #25
rDigital Sep 2012 #30
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #33
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #9
pnwmom Sep 2012 #16
rDigital Sep 2012 #31
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #34
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #35
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #119
rDigital Sep 2012 #36
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #38
rDigital Sep 2012 #40
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #41
rDigital Sep 2012 #43
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #45
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #42
rDigital Sep 2012 #44
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #46
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #47
rDigital Sep 2012 #51
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #52
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #53
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #114
rDigital Sep 2012 #48
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #50
rDigital Sep 2012 #55
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #56
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #57
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #115
PavePusher Sep 2012 #133
rDigital Sep 2012 #58
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #60
rDigital Sep 2012 #61
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #63
rDigital Sep 2012 #66
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #67
rDigital Sep 2012 #68
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #70
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #69
rDigital Sep 2012 #71
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #72
rDigital Sep 2012 #73
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #74
rDigital Sep 2012 #75
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #77
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #116
rDigital Sep 2012 #59
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #62
rDigital Sep 2012 #76
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #78
rDigital Sep 2012 #80
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #82
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #86
rDigital Sep 2012 #91
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #95
rDigital Sep 2012 #101
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #102
rDigital Sep 2012 #106
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #108
rDigital Sep 2012 #111
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #113
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #99
rDigital Sep 2012 #81
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #83
rDigital Sep 2012 #84
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #85
rDigital Sep 2012 #87
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #89
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #90
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #88
rDigital Sep 2012 #94
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #96
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #92
rDigital Sep 2012 #98
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #100
rDigital Sep 2012 #104
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #105
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #107
rDigital Sep 2012 #109
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #110
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #120
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #117
orpupilofnature57 Sep 2012 #103
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #122
PavePusher Sep 2012 #134
gejohnston Sep 2012 #118
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #123
cherokeeprogressive Sep 2012 #121
apocalypsehow Sep 2012 #135

Response to apocalypsehow (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:02 PM

1. Good news on the gun front, for a change. Thanks. n/t

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:07 PM

3. Good news for whom?

Banning carry doesn't protect or benefit anyone.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NewMoonTherian (Reply #3)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:13 PM

5. I disagree. With the rate of binge drinking on college campuses

I think it's beyond stupid to allow guns there.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #5)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:16 PM

8. the sterotype is

those under 21, no state I know of allow anyone under 21 have a concealed carry permit. If there is binge underage drinking, what is campus security and administration doing about it? Frat houses are off campus.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gejohnston (Reply #8)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:29 PM

18. IF there is binge under-age drinking? You've got to be kidding.

There is binge drinking among all ages of students in dorms as well as frats, and most campuses aren't doing much about it. Adding guns to the mix is a recipe for disaster, even if the licensed carrier is 21.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #18)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:45 PM

23. in my experience

young and stupid tends to leave once you have been away from mom and dad for a couple of years. To say someone who goes back to school suddenly becomes less responsible than someone who doesn't sounds absurd and not a very well thought out argument. The rules does not change possession in the dorms, which are probably prohibited. They were in Wyoming 40 years ago, so I doubt they are allowed in the U of C system today.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gejohnston (Reply #23)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:48 PM

97. Alcohol use is higher among college students than it is among people of the same age

who are working. This is the reverse of the situation in high school, when college bound students are LESS likely to drink than non-college bound students.

And it might sound absurd to you, but it doesn't to anyone who has been involved as an administrator in higher education.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #97)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:59 PM

112. that is true with 18 year olds living in dorms

who are banned from getting a CCW in most states. They are likely staying in the dorms which, in all likelihood, don't allow keeping any weapon of any type in dorms. That was certainly the case in the Wyoming system when I lived in college dorms.
What the issue is about are what are sometimes called "nontraditional students" someone who does something else (military, find themselves by backpacking the Canadian wilderness, or whatever) or middle aged people going back to school for whatever reason. Last college class I took I was one of a couple of military retirees and there were several folks in their 30s and 40s. None of us turned into drunken party animals.
That is the part that sounds absurd to me.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gejohnston (Reply #112)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:24 PM

124. Why do any non-traditional students need to carry guns on campus? The vast majority

of students get along perfectly well without them.

But unfortunately, you're wrong about dorms. In some states (not California) laws do allow students to have guns in dorms. I wouldn't be happy if my student's 21 year old roommate had one, would you?

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #124)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:46 PM

130. My first guess would be one of the exceptions in California law

are those who have a restraining order on some asshole ex. I doubt few if any actually would. A lot of things are legal but not customary. In Wyoming and most states it is perfectly legal open carry and always was. It is simply not done, and wasn't customary even before it became a state. Now that Wyoming concealed carry went from kind of like NYC, but more fair, to Vermont light, I don't know anyone who actually does carry concealed. If escape from Florida and go home, I most likely wouldn't either. Why bother if you are either in Mayberry or the woods? Florida allows it as long as you have a fishing pole in your hand. Nobody does, other than some guy on Youtube trying to get a cop in trouble.
I don't have a CCW, and I don't carry for protection. That said, if I got a job working at a planned parenthood or as an escort for a women's health clinic, you better believe I would.
Depends on the roommate. If it is another Wyoming hick that brought his target or hunting stuff, they would have something in common. If you are talking about some asshole, not so much. Have to remember, I grew up in a culture that views guns differently than you might have.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gejohnston (Reply #130)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:56 PM

132. I'm curious, was Wyoming restrictive on guns until recently? Or just on concealed carry? n/t.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #124)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:53 PM

131. Please cite those states/campuses and the rules that apply.

 

We'll wait.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #18)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:46 PM

93. It is a rare 21+ age student who lives in a dorm.

At that point they are almost always living in off-campus apartments and are subject to the same laws as any other citizen.

21/22 is the typical age of graduation. Above that age and they are usually graduate students who have shown themselves responsible by studying during their college years and keeping a GPA that was good enough for grad school.

If they are still in college at age 22 it is usually because they got a late start due to doing something between high school and college, or they are in college part-time. For student such as those, college hasn't been an automatic privilege but is something that they are having to work hard for. Such students are very unlikely candidates to waste the opportunity of a lifetime by being a drunk.

I do not support CCW for under age 21 persons.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #5)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:19 PM

12. That's a common argument.

But it doesn't hold up. There are states and campuses that allow concealed carry without incident. It is illegal to be in physical control of a firearm while under the influence of alcohol.

If you assert that banning carry on college campuses is beneficial, you should be able to provide support for that assertion.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NewMoonTherian (Reply #12)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:01 PM

26. That's not how it works, Moon. It is incumbent upon those who wish to change the established law

and policies regarding no concealed carry on California college campuses to provide support for the assertion that the law should be changed, and concealed carry allowed.

California's ban on concealed carry on campus works, and should not be changed. Indeed, the Federal government should mandate California's concealed carry policy - allowed only under VERY limited circumstances - nationwide, by cutting off all Federal funds to any state that allows people to carry concealed weapons on their public campuses.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #26)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:51 PM

49. What is the problem your proposed solution is trying to solve?

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #49)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:12 PM

64. I wasn't the one with the "problem": CA law FORBIDS concealed carry on campus save in

very, very limited circumstance.

It's "Moon" up there wanting to change the law: take it up with him.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #26)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:58 PM

54. Is that how it works?

I would think the burden of support lies with those who want to restrict individual freedom.

In any case, the colleges where carry is currently allowed are my support. They demonstrate that carry bans do not work, in that they do not prevent any injury or death that would otherwise take place. Carry bans have failed to demonstrate any measurable benefit, and should be done away with, everywhere.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NewMoonTherian (Reply #54)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:13 PM

65. That's how it works alrighty, in the real world. In pro-NRA land, I don't know or care how it "works

Neither does the rest of the civilized world.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #65)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:30 PM

125. The civilized world has no problem...

destroying personal freedoms without purpose? That hardly sounds civilized.

If that isn't what you mean, then all I'm asking is that you show me the purpose of banning carry. It should be easy to prove its efficacy. You want me to believe it works, but you don't provide any evidence to that effect. Campuses that allow carry are no more dangerous than those that ban it.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NewMoonTherian (Reply #125)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:35 PM

127. Restricting where firearms can be carried is hardly "destroying personal freedoms," but let's

put that aside. I'm not interested in "proving" anything to you. It works in California, and it is going to continue working. In fact, the laws are likely to get more restrictive in CA in the years ahead.

The onus is on you if you want to change California's gun laws regarding campus carry, as you are the one asserting a change should be made. When you say "Campuses that allow carry are no more dangerous than those that ban it" I say (1) that's an assertion posted without evidence, and (2) even were that the case, that does not make the case the California should change its laws to allow students and faculty to tote weaponry around and about campus.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #26)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:31 PM

79. Actually it doesn't work because it's legal, you're just subject to academic sanctions

 

Did you notice that the website you are using as a reference still lists open carry in CA as a legal activity.

It's out of date. 626.9 (l)provides the exemption.

(l)This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision (e) of Section 7521 of the Business and Professions Code.


A person with a valid CCW permit (code 12050) is exempt from the entire section code of 626.9

12027 doesn't matter it just supplies more definitions of things that 12025 does not affect, section (j) lists people with a CCW permit as things that Code 12025 doesn't affect.

Code 12025 is a ban on carrying of concealed firearms. People with a CCW Permit are not banned from carrying a pistol.

Here is that section:
12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does any of the following:

(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.


Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:


Section (l) from 626.9 provides the exemption in clear languange. The whole of 626.9 does NOT APPLY to CCW permit holders.

You're grasping at straws, foaming at the mouth and stomping your feet. Get over it.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Gun_Free_School_Zones
A PC 12050/26150 CCW allows permit holders to legally carry their listed handguns on both K-12 and college/university properties and campuses. That does not insulate a licensed student or employee of a school from administrative or job disciplinary action if the school prohibits carry for those groups.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #79)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:38 PM

128. Actually it does work because carrying concealed weapons @ CA campuses is illegal. Educate yourself:

Save under very limited circumstances, you cannot strut around a California college campus with your pistol perched in your pants, period. Indeed, you can be subjected to criminal sanctions for doing so, not just civil administrative remedies.

Here is what an actual law firm made up of actual lawyers - not internet free-lancers - has to say about carrying a concealed weapon on a California college campus even if you have a California concealed weapon permit:

"Exceptions to the California Gun-Free School Zone Act

(*snip*)

specific persons who are authorized to carry concealed weapons such as those engaged in the business of selling, manufacturing, etc. firearms and those who are guards, carriers, or messengers for banks or other financial institutions.14 (NOTE: Having a California "carry a concealed weapon CCW permit under Penal Code 12050 PC does not exempt you from prosecution if you carry a concealed weapon in a school zone),15

Further:

"15 Penal Code 626.9(c)(4) above specifically excludes persons under Penal Code 12027 subdivisions b,d,e, and h from prosecution under this law. Penal Code 12027(j) deals with persons who hold CCW permits. Because subdivision "j" isn't specifically listed as an exception under Penal Code 626.9, those who carry concealed weapons in a school zone…even with a valid permit…still violate the Gun-Free School Zone Act.

And here's what can happen if you decide to take Shade Tree legal advice being peddled on the internet and get caught strutting about campus with your favorite heater tucked into your waistband:

"possessing a firearm on school grounds or on a university or college campus or their associated buildings is always a felony.20 (NOTE: Although colleges and universities are beyond the scope of the definition of a "school zone", possessing a gun on these campuses still subjects you to prosecution under California's Gun-Free School Zone Act.)

And even if you wave around your "concealed weapon permit" (assuming you can get one: California is a "may issue" state, and very few are granted in urban/populated areas), it'll likely do you little good, as the law is not on your side.

Further:

" However, if you possess a firearm within a school zone under a different set of circumstances from the three just listed, prosecutors could charge you with violating California's Gun-Free School Zone Act as either a misdemeanor or a felony"

It's not on your side under any number of circumstances.

See also:

""(h) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a loaded firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision. (i) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for one, two, or three years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.")"

So much for all that jazz about how "even if you get caught they can't put you in jail, just fire or expel you from campus": uh, yes they can.

So my advice is that the next time you find yourself itching to test out your "RKBA" rights, you choose a different venue than a California college/university campus, especially if you're only doing so on the advice of some anonymous Shade Tree lawyer on the internet: if caught, you could get into A LOT of trouble, and wind up in jail. And I don't think the "but the DU Gungeon said it was okay" defense will fly once you get before a jury.

*Link here: http://www.shouselaw.com/gun-free-school.html

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NewMoonTherian (Reply #12)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:35 PM

126. That is bull shit. You can't take an incident or incidents and say that it proves anything.

Gunners use that "prove it" canard every time and it is a just a bull shit tactic. Then you come up with some gunner propaganda and all you've done is try to score some points in an argument.

More and more you are sounding foolish and no one wants to here it anymore. It's redundant in the extreme.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to upaloopa (Reply #126)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:40 PM

129. Yep - but they think every time they throw up some huge block of statutory mumbo-jumbo

while high-lighting out-of-context passages they've "won" some kind of debate. It's silly in the extreme.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:10 PM

4. he highlighted the wrong part

all you need is written permission from the school administration, making California university systems not that much different than Wyoming's, which requires written permission from campus security.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gejohnston (Reply #4)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:14 PM

7. Uh-huh. And the administrators are very unlikely to give it,

because then they would be liable for any damage done by the gun.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #7)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:18 PM

11. if you look at paragraph l

as I understand it, those with concealed carry permits don't require permission under the law, but there may be a school rule which has nothing to do with the California Penal Code.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gejohnston (Reply #11)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:22 PM

15. The part you referenced wasn't about civilians with concealed carry permits.

They're clearly not allowed to carry on campus, without the written permission of administrators.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #15)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:34 PM

20. possibly

although it is best to ask a lawyer to actually read it instead of a "brief overview." It started over one poster having such permission from the campus that employs him. AH, for some reason, accused (with no basis) him of not only being dishonest about being a college professor but also carrying his pistol legally to his office. In other words, he was trying to fill iverglass' and Hoyt's shoes by being super troll. He is still pissed off because he was proven wrong.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gejohnston (Reply #20)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:51 PM

24. "Proven wrong"? Hardly: the poster in question has consitently REFUSED to provide substantiation of

his dubious claims to both (1) being a professor and (2) being given a written "exception" by the administration of the school he supposedly works for ( ) to strut around campus with his pistol perched in his pants.

He has provided not a scrap of evidence of substantiation of any of those claims. So what we have in that instance is just another anonymous guy on the internet claiming to be something, sans corroborating evidence or proof of any kind.

Now, if you wish to believe that hash about being a "pro gun professor" whose administration has given him written permission to play Free-lance Campus Cop in his spare time, be my guest. As he is a fellow "pro gun progressive" who routinely expresses pro "RKBA" views with which you agree, you have a vested interest in taking him at his anonymous internet-posted word about being a professor on his third professional job after racking up two retirements (and claiming to be rich, to boot), because it makes your cause look like one of the persons advocating for it has a storied academic pedigree.

But at the end of the day, with no corroboration of any kind, his claims remain just like I stated above: another anonymous guy on the internet claiming to be something. Period.


Edit: typo & clarity.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #24)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:09 PM

27. which you tried to call him out

based on no evidence, so the burden of proof is on you. You spent half the night sounding like Orly Tatz for the sole purpose of personally attacking someone whom you disagree with on one issue.
The rest of your rant isn't even worth my effort.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gejohnston (Reply #27)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:13 PM

28. No: wrong again. The "burden of proof" is on the one *making the claim*, NOT on the one who asks

for proof or substantiation of the claim being made. There was no "personal attack": he was asked to provide corroboration of his claims, and he declined to do so.

"The rest of your rant isn't even worth my effort"

Translation: "I can't refute what you wrote, so I'll just label it a 'rant' and call it a day."

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #28)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:15 PM

29. you questioned it as a personal attack

that was your intent, the burden of proof was on you.
I can't refute something that is incoherent and pointless.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gejohnston (Reply #29)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:21 PM

32. "questioned it as a personal attack" - Good grief, but that's some funny stuff there.

Regardless, the "burden of proof" is on the one making the claim, not the one asking for substantiation to corroborate the claim.

See here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=68658

"that was your intent"

So now you're a mind-reader huh? Across the internet, you can read an anonymous person's mind? Impressive!



Absurd.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #32)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:27 PM

37. you were attacking him as a person by questioning something he said about himself

that puts the burden of proof on you, just like the burden of proof was on the birthers, since they are making the claim. While you are not a birther, you were using the same propaganda technique, attack the person by questioning their legitimacy or honesty about an unrelated issue and put it on them to prove their innocence. If that is the best you can do, then you might want to question your own assumptions. Ultimately, it is a issue of mind over matter. I don't mind how much you rant and make fool out of yourself because you no longer matter.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gejohnston (Reply #37)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:35 PM

39. No, I was not. He claims to be a "professor" authorized to tote guns around campus, and he was asked

for proof thereof. The burden is entirely on the one making the claims, and that was him. He has refused to provide such proof, so his claims are invalid. End of story.

But thanks for kicking my OP back up to the top.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #7)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:20 PM

13. Exactly right: I doubt you could find a handful - IF THAT - of CA adminstrators willing to sign such

letters for all sorts of reasons, including liability. Also, most California university administrators are progressives and liberals, and don't buy into the NRA/GOP agenda.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:18 PM

10. Yes, this was in reply to an attempt to pretend that it was a wide open gun-totin' fest on

CA campuses. This feeble attempt, not backed up by anything other than Shade Tree legal advice, was not only wrong: it could someone who took it in trouble.

Thanks for your reply!

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:06 PM

2. Good for 2 things,

the substantive gun matter, and the 'actuall lawyers' matter.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elleng (Reply #2)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:14 PM

6. read the rest of it

(l)This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision (e) of Section 7521 of the Business and Professions Code.

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/1/15/1/s626.9

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gejohnston (Reply #6)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:20 PM

14. The referenced exception doesn't apply to ordinary civilians with concealed carry licenses.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #14)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:26 PM

17. as far as I can tell it applies to private citizens (cops, other than military police) are civilians

who have permission from the administration or has had to file a restraining order against someone.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gejohnston (Reply #17)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:30 PM

19. And the administration is extremely unlikely to give such permission

except in very limited circumstances. And very few people with CC permits have had to file restraining orders.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #19)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:40 PM

21. depends on the administration of that school

he over generalizes not only the state of California, which I doubt he actually spent very much time in, but the administrations there. Since I don't live in California, don't have a CCW valid there, I really don't give a shit either way. That would be like saying the University of Wyoming's chief of security will give permission just based on some over generalization (since I don't know the campus security there, have no reason to ask, I have no idea what they would decide.) I have known of people to get a CC after filing a restraining order.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #19)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:45 PM

22. The permission isn't required to be legal, just to avoid being fired/expelled.

 

Note: So carry on School property is legal if you have a California Issued Permit/License to Carry. The
School can keep Students, Faculty and others who work on campus from carrying and can expel them or fire
them for carrying firearms but they are not breaking a law just a rule of the School.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/california.pdf

You legally carry, and keep your job too, if you get a little permission slip from the admins, just like our good friend ProgressiveProfessor does. It's legal anyway, but it's better to keep your job in the process.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #22)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:54 PM

25. It's NOT "legal anyway": you need to read the OP before you post easily-disproved assertions

that have already been thoroughly debunked.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #25)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:18 PM

30. You're wrong. The exemption is plainly written in coded 626.9

 

Did you notice that the website you are using as a reference still lists open carry in CA as a legal activity.

It's out of date. 626.9 (l)provides the exemption.

(l)This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision (e) of Section 7521 of the Business and Professions Code.


A person with a valid CCW permit (code 12050) is exempt from the entire section code of 626.9

12027 doesn't matter it just supplies more definitions of things that 12025 does not affect, section (j) lists people with a CCW permit as things that Code 12025 doesn't affect.

Code 12025 is a ban on carrying of concealed firearms. People with a CCW Permit are not banned from carrying a pistol.

Here is that section:
12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does any of the following:

(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.


Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:


Section (l) from 626.9 provides the exemption in clear languange. The whole of 626.9 does NOT APPLY to CCW permit holders.

You're grasping at straws, foaming at the mouth and stomping your feet. Get over it.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #30)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:23 PM

33. I'm right, as the OP shows, all that irrelevant jazz you posted below notwithstanding. Try reading

the OP slower this time. Or better. Or both.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elleng (Reply #2)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:16 PM

9. I knew all the "California lets you carry guns all you want!!!" on campus silliness wasn't really

true, nor as lenient as what it was being made out to be in various posts and replies.

So I decided to see what some actual lawyers actually in California might have to say on the subject. I found quite a few that made it clear toting guns around on campus was a big no-no, in reality. But this firm had the most compact, comprehensive page on the matter, and my OP was already running long.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #9)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:23 PM

16. Thanks for the posting. n/t

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:20 PM

31. It's not popular or accepted, but it's legal.

 


Did you notice that the website you are using as a reference still lists open carry in CA as a legal activity.

It's out of date. 626.9 (l)provides the exemption.

(l)This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision (e) of Section 7521 of the Business and Professions Code.


A person with a valid CCW permit (code 12050) is exempt from the entire section code of 626.9

12027 doesn't matter it just supplies more definitions of things that 12025 does not affect, section (j) lists people with a CCW permit as things that Code 12025 doesn't affect.

Code 12025 is a ban on carrying of concealed firearms. People with a CCW Permit are not banned from carrying a pistol.

Here is that section:
12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does any of the following:

(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.


Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:


Section (l) from 626.9 provides the exemption in clear languange. The whole of 626.9 does NOT APPLY to CCW permit holders.

You're grasping at straws, foaming at the mouth and stomping your feet. Get over it.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #31)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:24 PM

34. It's not legal, as shown in the OP. Please try again. n/t.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #31)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:27 PM

35. Also, it's pretty rich running around DU accusing me of "stalking" then you post repeatedly in my OP

There is an offer on the table:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1240&pid=140061

Either take me up on it, or quit whining about being "stalked".

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #31)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:06 PM

119. It's not legal to strut around a CA campus with a pistol perched in your pants:

Save under very limited circumstances, you cannot strut around a California college campus with your pistol perched in your pants, period. Indeed, you can be subjected to criminal sanctions for doing so, not just civil administrative remedies.

Here is what an actual law firm made up of actual lawyers - not internet free-lancers - has to say about carrying a concealed weapon on a California college campus even if you have a California concealed weapon permit:

"Exceptions to the California Gun-Free School Zone Act

(*snip*)

specific persons who are authorized to carry concealed weapons such as those engaged in the business of selling, manufacturing, etc. firearms and those who are guards, carriers, or messengers for banks or other financial institutions.14 (NOTE: Having a California "carry a concealed weapon CCW permit under Penal Code 12050 PC does not exempt you from prosecution if you carry a concealed weapon in a school zone),15

Further:

"15 Penal Code 626.9(c)(4) above specifically excludes persons under Penal Code 12027 subdivisions b,d,e, and h from prosecution under this law. Penal Code 12027(j) deals with persons who hold CCW permits. Because subdivision "j" isn't specifically listed as an exception under Penal Code 626.9, those who carry concealed weapons in a school zone…even with a valid permit…still violate the Gun-Free School Zone Act.

And here's what can happen if you decide to take Shade Tree legal advice being peddled on the internet and get caught strutting about campus with your favorite heater tucked into your waistband:

"possessing a firearm on school grounds or on a university or college campus or their associated buildings is always a felony.20 (NOTE: Although colleges and universities are beyond the scope of the definition of a "school zone", possessing a gun on these campuses still subjects you to prosecution under California's Gun-Free School Zone Act.)

And even if you wave around your "concealed weapon permit" (assuming you can get one: California is a "may issue" state, and very few are granted in urban/populated areas), it'll likely do you little good, as the law is not on your side.

Further:

" However, if you possess a firearm within a school zone under a different set of circumstances from the three just listed, prosecutors could charge you with violating California's Gun-Free School Zone Act as either a misdemeanor or a felony"

It's not on your side under any number of circumstances.

See also:

""(h) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a loaded firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision. (i) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for one, two, or three years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.")"

So much for all that jazz about how "even if you get caught they can't put you in jail, just fire or expel you from campus": uh, yes they can.

So my advice is that the next time you find yourself itching to test out your "RKBA" rights, you choose a different venue than a California college/university campus, especially if you're only doing so on the advice of some anonymous Shade Tree lawyer on the internet: if caught, you could get into A LOT of trouble, and wind up in jail. And I don't think the "but the DU Gungeon said it was okay" defense will fly once you get before a jury.

*Link here: http://www.shouselaw.com/gun-free-school.html



Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:27 PM

36. More info

 

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Gun_Free_School_Zones
A PC 12050/26150 CCW allows permit holders to legally carry their listed handguns on both K-12 and college/university properties and campuses. That does not insulate a licensed student or employee of a school from administrative or job disciplinary action if the school prohibits carry for those groups.

Just keep in mind that California is a "may-issue" state, but if you have a CCW, you're legal to carry.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #36)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:28 PM

38. No, you are not "legal to carry" on campus, as the OP shows. Period. n/t.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #38)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:38 PM

40. Some hack internet site for a law firm? They don't even provide answers, just assumptions because

 

they want to avoid the issue, just like you.

My posts show what's legal. The link you posted from UCLA last night even points out their written exemption process.

http://map.ais.ucla.edu/portal/site/UCLA/menuitem.789d0eb6c76e7ef0d66b02ddf848344a/?vgnextoid=5eda12f78892a110VgnVCM400000e4d76180RCRD

What weapons are not permitted on campus?
Most weapons are not permitted on campus. For example:

Any knife including a belt buckle knife, dirk dagger, cane sword, pen knife, lipstick knife, switchblade, butterfly knife or any knife that has a blade longer than 2 1/2 inches, opens automatically or has more than one sharp edge
Any gun without written permission and in accordance with California Penal Code


They defer to the penal code which allows College Carry with a CCW. Then they state you can carry with written permission, to of course avoid putting your job or scholastic achievements in jeopardy. You're still legal, regardless, but it would be far better to get the permission to avoid the school problems.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #40)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:40 PM

41. A respected law firm made up of former prosecutor's and police officers is hardly a "hack site," and

they provided concise, legally valid answers as opposed to your Shade Tree lawyering. That you don't like it is your problem, not the rest of DU's.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #41)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:42 PM

43. Prove that I'm wrong with the laws and codes, not assumptions. You can't do it, I've tried.

 

It's legal, beagle.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #43)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:46 PM

45. It's already been proven, in the OP. n/t.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #40)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:41 PM

42. Also, a matter await your attention in Meta:

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #42)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:43 PM

44. Cool, not interested. I like making you lose public arguments. It's worth letting you stalk and

 

harass me.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #44)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:48 PM

46. So, you make the claim you are being "stalked" but then show up in MY OP posting to me.

I guess that puts paid to your silly claims to being "stalked": of course, anyone paying the slightest bit of attention already knew that when you say "stalked" you mean "disagreeing with my opinion." Laughable stuff.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #44)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:50 PM

47. So, now that the claim of being "stalked" has been shown to be bogus, I expect to see no more

of it here on DU from you, period. The next time you do, and every time here-on-out, I'm going to compile the links to your accusation, my offer, and your subsequent refusal to act on that offer to Admins. Making such a baseless claim repeatedly violates TOS.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #47)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:55 PM

51. The OP of this post is based on an issue you got absolutely thrashed on last night

 

First you said there was no college carry where employees could carry. You were wrong.
Then, you kept moving the goal posts and was sure that there was no college carry in California, then your were yet again thrashed and now you have posted this ill researched and false OP hoping to glaze over the fact that you are willing to fight about issues of which you have no grasp of whatsoever.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #51)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:57 PM

52. All nonsense, but regardless: the next time you accuse me of stalking you, it's going to the Admins.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #51)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:58 PM

53. Nice transparency page, BTW. n/t.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #36)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:02 PM

114. Actual useful info, as opposed to stuff that will get you arrested if you try it on a CA campus:

Save under very limited circumstances, you cannot strut around a California college campus with your pistol perched in your pants, period. Indeed, you can be subjected to criminal sanctions for doing so, not just civil administrative remedies.

Here is what an actual law firm made up of actual lawyers - not internet free-lancers - has to say about carrying a concealed weapon on a California college campus even if you have a California concealed weapon permit:

"Exceptions to the California Gun-Free School Zone Act

(*snip*)

specific persons who are authorized to carry concealed weapons such as those engaged in the business of selling, manufacturing, etc. firearms and those who are guards, carriers, or messengers for banks or other financial institutions.14 (NOTE: Having a California "carry a concealed weapon CCW permit under Penal Code 12050 PC does not exempt you from prosecution if you carry a concealed weapon in a school zone),15

Further:

"15 Penal Code 626.9(c)(4) above specifically excludes persons under Penal Code 12027 subdivisions b,d,e, and h from prosecution under this law. Penal Code 12027(j) deals with persons who hold CCW permits. Because subdivision "j" isn't specifically listed as an exception under Penal Code 626.9, those who carry concealed weapons in a school zone…even with a valid permit…still violate the Gun-Free School Zone Act.

And here's what can happen if you decide to take Shade Tree legal advice being peddled on the internet and get caught strutting about campus with your favorite heater tucked into your waistband:

"possessing a firearm on school grounds or on a university or college campus or their associated buildings is always a felony.20 (NOTE: Although colleges and universities are beyond the scope of the definition of a "school zone", possessing a gun on these campuses still subjects you to prosecution under California's Gun-Free School Zone Act.)

And even if you wave around your "concealed weapon permit" (assuming you can get one: California is a "may issue" state, and very few are granted in urban/populated areas), it'll likely do you little good, as the law is not on your side.

Further:

" However, if you possess a firearm within a school zone under a different set of circumstances from the three just listed, prosecutors could charge you with violating California's Gun-Free School Zone Act as either a misdemeanor or a felony"

It's not on your side under any number of circumstances.

See also:

""(h) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a loaded firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision. (i) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for one, two, or three years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.")"

So much for all that jazz about how "even if you get caught they can't put you in jail, just fire or expel you from campus": uh, yes they can.

So my advice is that the next time you find yourself itching to test out your "RKBA" rights, you choose a different venue than a California college/university campus, especially if you're only doing so on the advice of some anonymous Shade Tree lawyer on the internet: if caught, you could get into A LOT of trouble, and wind up in jail. And I don't think the "but the DU Gungeon said it was okay" defense will fly once you get before a jury.

*Link here: http://www.shouselaw.com/gun-free-school.html


Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:51 PM

48. Another article showing the Concealed Carry on Campus is only banned by school rules, not laws.

 

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #48)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:54 PM

50. That is blatantly FALSE: it shows *no* *such* *thing*. It is an opinion piece, not a factual

recitation of California's current concealed carry on campus laws - it actually confirms MY OP, as it is calling for the law to be changed to ALLOW concealed carry.

Your subject line is blatantly dishonest.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #50)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:59 PM

55. Not the law, the schools rules. Completely True. It's hard, I know.

 

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #55)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:00 PM

56. No, it's not true: CA law prohibits concealed carry on campus, and this article does not address the

anything other than the fact that the author thinks the law should be changed - thus confirming MY OP, not your false assertions.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #55)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:01 PM

57. I know that you're upset that your bogus OP giving phony legal advice has now been PROVEN

to be false and misleading, but that's how it goes when you don't have the facts on your side, just wishes.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #48)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:03 PM

115. Facts showing that if you go onto a CA campus with a gun and get caught, you'll be arrested:

Save under very limited circumstances, you cannot strut around a California college campus with your pistol perched in your pants, period. Indeed, you can be subjected to criminal sanctions for doing so, not just civil administrative remedies.

Here is what an actual law firm made up of actual lawyers - not internet free-lancers - has to say about carrying a concealed weapon on a California college campus even if you have a California concealed weapon permit:

"Exceptions to the California Gun-Free School Zone Act

(*snip*)

specific persons who are authorized to carry concealed weapons such as those engaged in the business of selling, manufacturing, etc. firearms and those who are guards, carriers, or messengers for banks or other financial institutions.14 (NOTE: Having a California "carry a concealed weapon CCW permit under Penal Code 12050 PC does not exempt you from prosecution if you carry a concealed weapon in a school zone),15

Further:

"15 Penal Code 626.9(c)(4) above specifically excludes persons under Penal Code 12027 subdivisions b,d,e, and h from prosecution under this law. Penal Code 12027(j) deals with persons who hold CCW permits. Because subdivision "j" isn't specifically listed as an exception under Penal Code 626.9, those who carry concealed weapons in a school zone…even with a valid permit…still violate the Gun-Free School Zone Act.

And here's what can happen if you decide to take Shade Tree legal advice being peddled on the internet and get caught strutting about campus with your favorite heater tucked into your waistband:

"possessing a firearm on school grounds or on a university or college campus or their associated buildings is always a felony.20 (NOTE: Although colleges and universities are beyond the scope of the definition of a "school zone", possessing a gun on these campuses still subjects you to prosecution under California's Gun-Free School Zone Act.)

And even if you wave around your "concealed weapon permit" (assuming you can get one: California is a "may issue" state, and very few are granted in urban/populated areas), it'll likely do you little good, as the law is not on your side.

Further:

" However, if you possess a firearm within a school zone under a different set of circumstances from the three just listed, prosecutors could charge you with violating California's Gun-Free School Zone Act as either a misdemeanor or a felony"

It's not on your side under any number of circumstances.

See also:

""(h) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a loaded firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision. (i) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for one, two, or three years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.")"

So much for all that jazz about how "even if you get caught they can't put you in jail, just fire or expel you from campus": uh, yes they can.

So my advice is that the next time you find yourself itching to test out your "RKBA" rights, you choose a different venue than a California college/university campus, especially if you're only doing so on the advice of some anonymous Shade Tree lawyer on the internet: if caught, you could get into A LOT of trouble, and wind up in jail. And I don't think the "but the DU Gungeon said it was okay" defense will fly once you get before a jury.

*Link here: http://www.shouselaw.com/gun-free-school.html


Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #115)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 10:03 PM

133. Constantly repeating yourself does not make you any more right or less wrong....

 

It simply makes you sound obsessive.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:03 PM

58. More good info on this subject.

 

It's not the campus police you need to worry about. If the Administration has a "no weapons" policy in their employees' manual or student rules, then that is where the Administration will take action. You won't get arrested, because your CCW is valid. However, you could be fired or expelled because you violated the Administrations rules. I believe this was mentioned in one of our FAQs, which are locked because they are informational postings, not discussion threads. Here is the one related to CCW on campus:
http://www.calccw.com/Forums/where-c...niversity.html

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #58)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:07 PM

60. More bogus info, because if you carry a gun on a CA campus and get caught, you're getting arrested.

Let's hope nobody out there is taking this Shade Tree legal advice seriously: as shown in the OP, it can get you put in prison.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #60)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:09 PM

61. Just because you keep repeating "A = ~A" won't make it true. Enjoy.

 

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #61)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:10 PM

63. What I "keep repeating" are FACTS you've been unable to refute. Funny stuff. n/t.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #63)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:14 PM

66. Perhaps it's not sinking in. Let's try it again. I'll use your methods to help you.

 


Did you notice that the website you are using as a reference still lists open carry in CA as a legal activity.

It's out of date. 626.9 (l)provides the exemption.

(l)This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision (e) of Section 7521 of the Business and Professions Code.


A person with a valid CCW permit (code 12050) is exempt from the entire section code of 626.9

12027 doesn't matter it just supplies more definitions of things that 12025 does not affect, section (j) lists people with a CCW permit as things that Code 12025 doesn't affect.

Code 12025 is a ban on carrying of concealed firearms. People with a CCW Permit are not banned from carrying a pistol.

Here is that section:
12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does any of the following:

(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.


Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:


Section (l) from 626.9 provides the exemption in clear languange. The whole of 626.9 does NOT APPLY to CCW permit holders.

You're grasping at straws, foaming at the mouth and stomping your feet. Get over it.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #66)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:15 PM

67. Asked & answered: the OP stands unrefuted, all the diversionary jazz and irrelevant nonsense to the

contrary.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #67)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:18 PM

68. Using your same methods, I guess we have to try again. We can't give up too easy!

 


Did you notice that the website you are using as a reference still lists open carry in CA as a legal activity.

It's out of date. 626.9 (l)provides the exemption.

(l)This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision (e) of Section 7521 of the Business and Professions Code.


A person with a valid CCW permit (code 12050) is exempt from the entire section code of 626.9

12027 doesn't matter it just supplies more definitions of things that 12025 does not affect, section (j) lists people with a CCW permit as things that Code 12025 doesn't affect.

Code 12025 is a ban on carrying of concealed firearms. People with a CCW Permit are not banned from carrying a pistol.

Here is that section:
12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does any of the following:

(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.


Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:


Section (l) from 626.9 provides the exemption in clear languange. The whole of 626.9 does NOT APPLY to CCW permit holders.

You're grasping at straws, foaming at the mouth and stomping your feet. Get over it.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #68)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:20 PM

70. Asked & answered: now you're just spamming. The OP stands unrefuted. n/t.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #66)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:19 PM

69. BTW, just in case somebody's confused by this diversion about "open carry": it's a bogus

diversion, as the law regarding concealed carry on campus was not affected in the slightest by the ban on "open carry" in California. The poster is just trying to dishonestly conflate the two issues, and confuse folks by posting a bunch legal-looking stuff that has no bearing on the facts in the OP.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #69)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:21 PM

71. Using your own methods. I promise that I won't give up on you sweetie. Now with added umph!!

 

Did you notice that the website you are using as a reference still lists open carry in CA as a legal activity.

It's out of date. 626.9 (l)provides the exemption.

(l)This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision (e) of Section 7521 of the Business and Professions Code.


A person with a valid CCW permit (code 12050) is exempt from the entire section code of 626.9

12027 doesn't matter it just supplies more definitions of things that 12025 does not affect, section (j) lists people with a CCW permit as things that Code 12025 doesn't affect.

Code 12025 is a ban on carrying of concealed firearms. People with a CCW Permit are not banned from carrying a pistol.

Here is that section:
12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does any of the following:

(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.


Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:


Section (l) from 626.9 provides the exemption in clear languange. The whole of 626.9 does NOT APPLY to CCW permit holders.

You're grasping at straws, foaming at the mouth and stomping your feet. Get over it.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Gun_Free_School_Zones
A PC 12050/26150 CCW allows permit holders to legally carry their listed handguns on both K-12 and college/university properties and campuses. That does not insulate a licensed student or employee of a school from administrative or job disciplinary action if the school prohibits carry for those groups.


Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #71)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:22 PM

72. Asked & answered: now you're just spamming. The OP stands unrefuted. n/t.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #72)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:23 PM

73. I'm using your same tactics.... except I'm winning and RIGHT. OP HAS BEEN THRASHED!!

 

Did you notice that the website you are using as a reference still lists open carry in CA as a legal activity.

It's out of date. 626.9 (l)provides the exemption.

(l)This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision (e) of Section 7521 of the Business and Professions Code.


A person with a valid CCW permit (code 12050) is exempt from the entire section code of 626.9

12027 doesn't matter it just supplies more definitions of things that 12025 does not affect, section (j) lists people with a CCW permit as things that Code 12025 doesn't affect.

Code 12025 is a ban on carrying of concealed firearms. People with a CCW Permit are not banned from carrying a pistol.

Here is that section:
12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does any of the following:

(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.


Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:


Section (l) from 626.9 provides the exemption in clear languange. The whole of 626.9 does NOT APPLY to CCW permit holders.

You're grasping at straws, foaming at the mouth and stomping your feet. Get over it.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Gun_Free_School_Zones
A PC 12050/26150 CCW allows permit holders to legally carry their listed handguns on both K-12 and college/university properties and campuses. That does not insulate a licensed student or employee of a school from administrative or job disciplinary action if the school prohibits carry for those groups.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #73)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:25 PM

74. The OP is spot-on: all of your spamming and diversionary nonsense notwithstanding. Cap-locks tell

the tale.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #74)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:27 PM

75. No it's just more fun to use caps and your own tactics to prove a point. You're wrong and then some

 

Did you notice that the website you are using as a reference still lists open carry in CA as a legal activity.

It's out of date. 626.9 (l)provides the exemption.

(l)This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision (e) of Section 7521 of the Business and Professions Code.


A person with a valid CCW permit (code 12050) is exempt from the entire section code of 626.9

12027 doesn't matter it just supplies more definitions of things that 12025 does not affect, section (j) lists people with a CCW permit as things that Code 12025 doesn't affect.

Code 12025 is a ban on carrying of concealed firearms. People with a CCW Permit are not banned from carrying a pistol.

Here is that section:
12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does any of the following:

(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.


Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:


Section (l) from 626.9 provides the exemption in clear languange. The whole of 626.9 does NOT APPLY to CCW permit holders.

You're grasping at straws, foaming at the mouth and stomping your feet. Get over it.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Gun_Free_School_Zones
A PC 12050/26150 CCW allows permit holders to legally carry their listed handguns on both K-12 and college/university properties and campuses. That does not insulate a licensed student or employee of a school from administrative or job disciplinary action if the school prohibits carry for those groups.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #75)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:29 PM

77. Nope: quite right, all your spamming notwithstanding. The reason your spamming is that the facts are

not on your side, and that has you upset. Funny stuff.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #58)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:04 PM

116. More good info showing that if you carry a gun on a CA campus, you'll be arrested:

Save under very limited circumstances, you cannot strut around a California college campus with your pistol perched in your pants, period. Indeed, you can be subjected to criminal sanctions for doing so, not just civil administrative remedies.

Here is what an actual law firm made up of actual lawyers - not internet free-lancers - has to say about carrying a concealed weapon on a California college campus even if you have a California concealed weapon permit:

"Exceptions to the California Gun-Free School Zone Act

(*snip*)

specific persons who are authorized to carry concealed weapons such as those engaged in the business of selling, manufacturing, etc. firearms and those who are guards, carriers, or messengers for banks or other financial institutions.14 (NOTE: Having a California "carry a concealed weapon CCW permit under Penal Code 12050 PC does not exempt you from prosecution if you carry a concealed weapon in a school zone),15

Further:

"15 Penal Code 626.9(c)(4) above specifically excludes persons under Penal Code 12027 subdivisions b,d,e, and h from prosecution under this law. Penal Code 12027(j) deals with persons who hold CCW permits. Because subdivision "j" isn't specifically listed as an exception under Penal Code 626.9, those who carry concealed weapons in a school zone…even with a valid permit…still violate the Gun-Free School Zone Act.

And here's what can happen if you decide to take Shade Tree legal advice being peddled on the internet and get caught strutting about campus with your favorite heater tucked into your waistband:

"possessing a firearm on school grounds or on a university or college campus or their associated buildings is always a felony.20 (NOTE: Although colleges and universities are beyond the scope of the definition of a "school zone", possessing a gun on these campuses still subjects you to prosecution under California's Gun-Free School Zone Act.)

And even if you wave around your "concealed weapon permit" (assuming you can get one: California is a "may issue" state, and very few are granted in urban/populated areas), it'll likely do you little good, as the law is not on your side.

Further:

" However, if you possess a firearm within a school zone under a different set of circumstances from the three just listed, prosecutors could charge you with violating California's Gun-Free School Zone Act as either a misdemeanor or a felony"

It's not on your side under any number of circumstances.

See also:

""(h) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a loaded firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision. (i) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for one, two, or three years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.")"

So much for all that jazz about how "even if you get caught they can't put you in jail, just fire or expel you from campus": uh, yes they can.

So my advice is that the next time you find yourself itching to test out your "RKBA" rights, you choose a different venue than a California college/university campus, especially if you're only doing so on the advice of some anonymous Shade Tree lawyer on the internet: if caught, you could get into A LOT of trouble, and wind up in jail. And I don't think the "but the DU Gungeon said it was okay" defense will fly once you get before a jury.

*Link here: http://www.shouselaw.com/gun-free-school.html


Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:06 PM

59. More anecdotal evidence just to sweeten the pot when this is all over.

 

I am on USC campus at least once a week- volunteer teaching and other academic related reasons. Reading posts about most California campuses having amibiguous CCW policies, I had to get clarification from USC.

I was told by Capt. Steve Alegre, Captain - USC Police Community Relations that: USC school policy for CCW could not supercede California CCW law. (He verbally gave me permission to quote him on this) He went on to say that with his 30 years combined experience with Santa Ana PD and LAPD, that he was confident about the validity of his answer.

http://www.calccw.com/Forums/announcements/18460-univ-southern-california-ccw-ok.html

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #59)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:09 PM

62. It already is "over": I've posted and quoted the LAW; all you've put up is an anonymous post

by some gun fanatic on a pro-NRA board. You have yet to refute the OP, though that was going to be impossible in any event, as the facts are irrefutable.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #62)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:29 PM

76. You have no understanding of the subject at hand. The law has to ban it. The law ALLOWs it.

 

Did you notice that the website you are using as a reference still lists open carry in CA as a legal activity.

It's out of date. 626.9 (l)provides the exemption.

(l)This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision (e) of Section 7521 of the Business and Professions Code.


A person with a valid CCW permit (code 12050) is exempt from the entire section code of 626.9

12027 doesn't matter it just supplies more definitions of things that 12025 does not affect, section (j) lists people with a CCW permit as things that Code 12025 doesn't affect.

Code 12025 is a ban on carrying of concealed firearms. People with a CCW Permit are not banned from carrying a pistol.

Here is that section:
12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does any of the following:

(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.


Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:


Section (l) from 626.9 provides the exemption in clear languange. The whole of 626.9 does NOT APPLY to CCW permit holders.

You're grasping at straws, foaming at the mouth and stomping your feet. Get over it.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Gun_Free_School_Zones
A PC 12050/26150 CCW allows permit holders to legally carry their listed handguns on both K-12 and college/university properties and campuses. That does not insulate a licensed student or employee of a school from administrative or job disciplinary action if the school prohibits carry for those groups.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #76)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:30 PM

78. You're right: the law bans it. First thing you got right all night. Thanks for confirming the OP!

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #78)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:33 PM

80. 626.9 specifically exempts those with a CCW permit. Nice try. OP THRASHED.

 

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #80)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:35 PM

82. The OP is spot-on: sorry that it ruined your bogus post about CA campus concealed carry.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #80)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:40 PM

86. Completely wrong:

Penal Code 12027(j) deals with persons who hold CCW permits. Because subdivision "j" isn't specifically listed as an exception under Penal Code 626.9, those who carry concealed weapons in a school zone…even with a valid permit…still violate the Gun-Free School Zone Act.

You need to re-read the OP.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #86)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:44 PM

91. That part that you are posting is the lawyer site. It does not exist in the law. You have not read

 

12027 have you? It's just a list of people that criminal CCW doesn't apply to.....like CCW permit holders which are expressly listed in 12027
Here, allow me to debunk you:
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/4/2/1/2/s12027

CAL. PEN. CODE § 12027 : California Code - Section 12027

Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:

(a)(1)(A)Any peace officer, listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, or subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, whether active or honorably retired, other duly appointed peace officers, honorably retired peace officers listed in subdivision (c) of Section 830.5, other honorably retired peace officers who during the course and scope of their employment as peace officers were authorized to, and did, carry firearms, full-time paid peace officers of other states and the federal government who are carrying out official duties while in California, or any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting that officer. Any peace officer described in this paragraph who has been honorably retired shall be issued an identification certificate by the law enforcement agency from which the officer has retired. The issuing agency may charge a fee necessary to cover any reasonable expenses incurred by the agency in issuing certificates pursuant to this subdivision. As used in this section and Section 12031, the term "honorably retired" includes all peace officers who have qualified for, and have accepted, a service or disability retirement. For purposes of this section and Section 12031, the term "honorably retired" does not include an officer who has agreed to a service retirement in lieu of termination.

(B)Any officer, except an officer listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, or subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 who retired prior to January 1, 1981, shall have an endorsement on the identification certificate stating that the issuing agency approves the officer's carrying of a concealed firearm.

(C)No endorsement or renewal endorsement issued pursuant to paragraph (2) shall be effective unless it is in the format set forth in subparagraph (D), except that any peace officer listed in subdivision (f) of Section 830.2 or in subdivision (c) of Section 830.5, who is retired between January 2, 1981, and on or before December 31, 1988, and who is authorized to carry a concealed firearm pursuant to this section, shall not be required to have an endorsement in the format set forth in subparagraph (D) until the time of the issuance, on or after January 1, 1989, of a renewal endorsement pursuant to paragraph (2).

(D)A certificate issued pursuant to this paragraph for persons who are not listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, or subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 or for persons retiring after January 1, 1981, shall be in the following format: it shall be on a 2X3 inch card, bear the photograph of the retiree, the retiree's name, date of birth, the date that the retiree retired, name and address of the agency from which the retiree retired, have stamped on it the endorsement "CCW Approved" and the date the endorsement is to be renewed. A certificate issued pursuant to this paragraph shall not be valid as identification for the sale, purchase, or transfer of a firearm.

(E)For purposes of this section and Section 12031, "CCW" means "carry concealed weapons."

(2)A retired peace officer, except an officer listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, or subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 who retired prior to January 1, 1981, shall petition the issuing agency for the renewal of his or her privilege to carry a concealed firearm every five years. An honorably retired peace officer listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, or subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 who retired prior to January 1, 1981, shall not be required to obtain an endorsement from the issuing agency to carry a concealed firearm. The agency from which a peace officer is honorably retired may, upon initial retirement of that peace officer, or at any time subsequent thereto, deny or revoke for good cause the retired officer's privilege to carry a concealed firearm. A peace officer who is listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, or subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 who retired prior to January 1, 1981, shall have his or her privilege to carry a concealed firearm denied or revoked by having the agency from which the officer retired stamp on the officer's identification certificate "No CCW privilege."

(3)An honorably retired peace officer who is listed in subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 and authorized to carry concealed firearms by this subdivision shall meet the training requirements of Section 832 and shall qualify with the firearm at least annually. The individual retired peace officer shall be responsible for maintaining his or her eligibility to carry a concealed firearm. The Department of Justice shall provide subsequent arrest notification pursuant to Section 11105.2 regarding honorably retired peace officers listed in subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 to the agency from which the officer has retired.

(b)The possession or transportation of unloaded pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person as merchandise by a person who is engaged in the business of manufacturing, importing, wholesaling, repairing, or dealing in firearms and who is licensed to engage in that business or the authorized representative or authorized agent of that person while engaged in the lawful course of the business.

(c)Members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, or Marine Corps of the United States, or the National Guard, when on duty, or organizations which are by law authorized to purchase or receive those weapons from the United States or this state.

(d)The carrying of unloaded pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person by duly authorized military or civil organizations while parading, or the members thereof when going to and from the places of meeting of their respective organizations.

(e)Guards or messengers of common carriers, banks, and other financial institutions while actually employed in and about the shipment, transportation, or delivery of any money, treasure, bullion, bonds, or other thing of value within this state.

(f)Members of any club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets upon established target ranges, whether public or private, while the members are using pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person upon the target ranges, or transporting these firearms unloaded when going to and from the ranges.

(g)Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition.

(h)Transportation of unloaded firearms by a person operating a licensed common carrier or an authorized agent or employee thereof when transported in conformance with applicable federal law.

(i)Upon approval of the sheriff of the county in which they reside, honorably retired federal officers or agents of federal law enforcement agencies, including, but not limited to, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Secret Service, the United States Customs Service, the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, the Drug Enforcement Administration, the United States Border Patrol, and officers or agents of the Internal Revenue Service who were authorized to carry weapons while on duty, who were assigned to duty within the state for a period of not less than one year, or who retired from active service in the state.

Retired federal officers or agents shall provide the sheriff with certification from the agency from which they retired certifying their service in the state, the nature of their retirement, and indicating the agency's concurrence that the retired federal officer or agent should be accorded the privilege of carrying a concealed firearm.

Upon that approval, the sheriff shall issue a permit to the retired federal officer or agent indicating that he or she may carry a concealed firearm in accordance with this subdivision. The permit shall be valid for a period not exceeding five years, shall be carried by the retiree while carrying a concealed firearm, and may be revoked for good cause.

The sheriff of the county in which the retired federal officer or agent resides may require recertification prior to a permit renewal, and may suspend the privilege for cause. The sheriff may charge a fee necessary to cover any reasonable expenses incurred by the county.

(j)The carrying of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person by a person who is authorized to carry that weapon in a concealed manner pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050).

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #91)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:46 PM

95. See the actual *relevant* portion of the law here:

"15 Penal Code 626.9(c)(4) above specifically excludes persons under Penal Code 12027 subdivisions b,d,e, and h from prosecution under this law. Penal Code 12027(j) deals with persons who hold CCW permits. Because subdivision "j" isn't specifically listed as an exception under Penal Code 626.9, those who carry concealed weapons in a school zone…even with a valid permit…still violate the Gun-Free School Zone Act.

Ain't facts grand!

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #95)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:50 PM

101. You know for a fact that isn't in the actual law.

 

CAL. PEN. CODE § 626.9 : California Code - Section 626.9, does not contain that text anywhere.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #101)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:52 PM

102. I know for a fact that this is what is relevant to CA concealed carry on campus:

"15 Penal Code 626.9(c)(4) above specifically excludes persons under Penal Code 12027 subdivisions b,d,e, and h from prosecution under this law. Penal Code 12027(j) deals with persons who hold CCW permits. Because subdivision "j" isn't specifically listed as an exception under Penal Code 626.9, those who carry concealed weapons in a school zone…even with a valid permit…still violate the Gun-Free School Zone Act."

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #102)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:55 PM

106. Extrapolate that paragraph, because I have and it doesn't say what you think it does. Go look up

 

the sections of the law that it addresses. You'll find that the interpretation you are clinging so dearly to is without precedent or legal basis.

Go read 12027. It's just a list of people that can't be charged.

Go read 626.9 It list's CCW permit holders as people that are exempt to the GFSZA.

It's a loss for you on all sides. Reading comprehension and research. Don't every take the lazy path in a legal argument.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #106)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:57 PM

108. No need. Read here:

"15 Penal Code 626.9(c)(4) above specifically excludes persons under Penal Code 12027 subdivisions b,d,e, and h from prosecution under this law. Penal Code 12027(j) deals with persons who hold CCW permits. Because subdivision "j" isn't specifically listed as an exception under Penal Code 626.9, those who carry concealed weapons in a school zone…even with a valid permit…still violate the Gun-Free School Zone Act."

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #108)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:59 PM

111. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it smart."

 

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #111)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:00 PM

113. And carrying a gun onto a CA campus will get you arrested, if you get caught:

Save under very limited circumstances, you cannot strut around a California college campus with your pistol perched in your pants, period. Indeed, you can be subjected to criminal sanctions for doing so, not just civil administrative remedies.

Here is what an actual law firm made up of actual lawyers - not internet free-lancers - has to say about carrying a concealed weapon on a California college campus even if you have a California concealed weapon permit:

"Exceptions to the California Gun-Free School Zone Act

(*snip*)

specific persons who are authorized to carry concealed weapons such as those engaged in the business of selling, manufacturing, etc. firearms and those who are guards, carriers, or messengers for banks or other financial institutions.14 (NOTE: Having a California "carry a concealed weapon CCW permit under Penal Code 12050 PC does not exempt you from prosecution if you carry a concealed weapon in a school zone),15

Further:

"15 Penal Code 626.9(c)(4) above specifically excludes persons under Penal Code 12027 subdivisions b,d,e, and h from prosecution under this law. Penal Code 12027(j) deals with persons who hold CCW permits. Because subdivision "j" isn't specifically listed as an exception under Penal Code 626.9, those who carry concealed weapons in a school zone…even with a valid permit…still violate the Gun-Free School Zone Act.

And here's what can happen if you decide to take Shade Tree legal advice being peddled on the internet and get caught strutting about campus with your favorite heater tucked into your waistband:

"possessing a firearm on school grounds or on a university or college campus or their associated buildings is always a felony.20 (NOTE: Although colleges and universities are beyond the scope of the definition of a "school zone", possessing a gun on these campuses still subjects you to prosecution under California's Gun-Free School Zone Act.)

And even if you wave around your "concealed weapon permit" (assuming you can get one: California is a "may issue" state, and very few are granted in urban/populated areas), it'll likely do you little good, as the law is not on your side.

Further:

" However, if you possess a firearm within a school zone under a different set of circumstances from the three just listed, prosecutors could charge you with violating California's Gun-Free School Zone Act as either a misdemeanor or a felony"

It's not on your side under any number of circumstances.

See also:

""(h) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a loaded firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision. (i) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for one, two, or three years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.")"

So much for all that jazz about how "even if you get caught they can't put you in jail, just fire or expel you from campus": uh, yes they can.

So my advice is that the next time you find yourself itching to test out your "RKBA" rights, you choose a different venue than a California college/university campus, especially if you're only doing so on the advice of some anonymous Shade Tree lawyer on the internet: if caught, you could get into A LOT of trouble, and wind up in jail. And I don't think the "but the DU Gungeon said it was okay" defense will fly once you get before a jury.

*Link here: http://www.shouselaw.com/gun-free-school.html


Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #59)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:48 PM

99. Ain't facts grand! See the actual RELEVANT section of the law here:

"15 Penal Code 626.9(c)(4) above specifically excludes persons under Penal Code 12027 subdivisions b,d,e, and h from prosecution under this law. Penal Code 12027(j) deals with persons who hold CCW permits. Because subdivision "j" isn't specifically listed as an exception under Penal Code 626.9, those who carry concealed weapons in a school zone…even with a valid permit…still violate the Gun-Free School Zone Act."

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:35 PM

81. Posting "A = ~A" is not going to help your case any. Campus carry is legal in California with a CCW

 

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Gun_Free_School_Zones Written by lawyers that are actually know of what they speak.

A PC 12050/26150 CCW allows permit holders to legally carry their listed handguns on both K-12 and college/university properties and campuses. That does not insulate a licensed student or employee of a school from administrative or job disciplinary action if the school prohibits carry for those groups.


You try and get a permission slip, just keep them from taking disciplinary/scholastic action against you. Carry is still legal with a CCW regardless.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #81)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:36 PM

83. No, it is not, save in very limited circumstances. The OP stands unrefuted. n/t.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #83)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:38 PM

84. It's ok to be wrong. You are allowed to fall. That's when we pick ourselves back up.

 

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Gun_Free_School_Zones Written by lawyers that are actually know of what they speak.

A PC 12050/26150 CCW allows permit holders to legally carry their listed handguns on both K-12 and college/university properties and campuses. That does not insulate a licensed student or employee of a school from administrative or job disciplinary action if the school prohibits carry for those groups.


You try and get a permission slip, just keep them from taking disciplinary/scholastic action against you. Carry is still legal with a CCW regardless.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #84)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:39 PM

85. As you've demonstrated, as you have been proven wrong by this OP. Fun stuff. n/t.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #85)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:40 PM

87. I'm just using your method to convince you. See how well it works? It's great

 

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Gun_Free_School_Zones Written by lawyers that are actually know of what they speak.

A PC 12050/26150 CCW allows permit holders to legally carry their listed handguns on both K-12 and college/university properties and campuses. That does not insulate a licensed student or employee of a school from administrative or job disciplinary action if the school prohibits carry for those groups.


You try and get a permission slip, just keep them from taking disciplinary/scholastic action against you. Carry is still legal with a CCW regardless.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #87)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:42 PM

89. So, you concede that you are not actually factually correct, but rather just in this thread to stir

up trouble using my supposed "method."

Quite a concession.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #87)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:44 PM

90. Asked & answered: it is not legal to carry a gun onto a CA campus save in very limited circumstances

"15 Penal Code 626.9(c)(4) above specifically excludes persons under Penal Code 12027 subdivisions b,d,e, and h from prosecution under this law. Penal Code 12027(j) deals with persons who hold CCW permits. Because subdivision "j" isn't specifically listed as an exception under Penal Code 626.9, those who carry concealed weapons in a school zone…even with a valid permit…still violate the Gun-Free School Zone Act.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #84)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:41 PM

88. No, "carry" is not legal, save in very limited circumstances. You are still peddling bad advice.

Also, dangerous legal advice.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #88)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:46 PM

94. All you need is a Cali CCW and prefeably a note from admins to keep you out of scholastic hot water

 


You haven't read 12027 have you? It's just a list of people that criminal CCW doesn't apply to.....like CCW permit holders which are expressly listed in 12027
Here, allow me to debunk you:
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/4/2/1/2/s12027

CAL. PEN. CODE § 12027 : California Code - Section 12027

Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:

(a)(1)(A)Any peace officer, listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, or subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, whether active or honorably retired, other duly appointed peace officers, honorably retired peace officers listed in subdivision (c) of Section 830.5, other honorably retired peace officers who during the course and scope of their employment as peace officers were authorized to, and did, carry firearms, full-time paid peace officers of other states and the federal government who are carrying out official duties while in California, or any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting that officer. Any peace officer described in this paragraph who has been honorably retired shall be issued an identification certificate by the law enforcement agency from which the officer has retired. The issuing agency may charge a fee necessary to cover any reasonable expenses incurred by the agency in issuing certificates pursuant to this subdivision. As used in this section and Section 12031, the term "honorably retired" includes all peace officers who have qualified for, and have accepted, a service or disability retirement. For purposes of this section and Section 12031, the term "honorably retired" does not include an officer who has agreed to a service retirement in lieu of termination.

(B)Any officer, except an officer listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, or subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 who retired prior to January 1, 1981, shall have an endorsement on the identification certificate stating that the issuing agency approves the officer's carrying of a concealed firearm.

(C)No endorsement or renewal endorsement issued pursuant to paragraph (2) shall be effective unless it is in the format set forth in subparagraph (D), except that any peace officer listed in subdivision (f) of Section 830.2 or in subdivision (c) of Section 830.5, who is retired between January 2, 1981, and on or before December 31, 1988, and who is authorized to carry a concealed firearm pursuant to this section, shall not be required to have an endorsement in the format set forth in subparagraph (D) until the time of the issuance, on or after January 1, 1989, of a renewal endorsement pursuant to paragraph (2).

(D)A certificate issued pursuant to this paragraph for persons who are not listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, or subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 or for persons retiring after January 1, 1981, shall be in the following format: it shall be on a 2X3 inch card, bear the photograph of the retiree, the retiree's name, date of birth, the date that the retiree retired, name and address of the agency from which the retiree retired, have stamped on it the endorsement "CCW Approved" and the date the endorsement is to be renewed. A certificate issued pursuant to this paragraph shall not be valid as identification for the sale, purchase, or transfer of a firearm.

(E)For purposes of this section and Section 12031, "CCW" means "carry concealed weapons."

(2)A retired peace officer, except an officer listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, or subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 who retired prior to January 1, 1981, shall petition the issuing agency for the renewal of his or her privilege to carry a concealed firearm every five years. An honorably retired peace officer listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, or subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 who retired prior to January 1, 1981, shall not be required to obtain an endorsement from the issuing agency to carry a concealed firearm. The agency from which a peace officer is honorably retired may, upon initial retirement of that peace officer, or at any time subsequent thereto, deny or revoke for good cause the retired officer's privilege to carry a concealed firearm. A peace officer who is listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, or subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 who retired prior to January 1, 1981, shall have his or her privilege to carry a concealed firearm denied or revoked by having the agency from which the officer retired stamp on the officer's identification certificate "No CCW privilege."

(3)An honorably retired peace officer who is listed in subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 and authorized to carry concealed firearms by this subdivision shall meet the training requirements of Section 832 and shall qualify with the firearm at least annually. The individual retired peace officer shall be responsible for maintaining his or her eligibility to carry a concealed firearm. The Department of Justice shall provide subsequent arrest notification pursuant to Section 11105.2 regarding honorably retired peace officers listed in subdivision (c) of Section 830.5 to the agency from which the officer has retired.

(b)The possession or transportation of unloaded pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person as merchandise by a person who is engaged in the business of manufacturing, importing, wholesaling, repairing, or dealing in firearms and who is licensed to engage in that business or the authorized representative or authorized agent of that person while engaged in the lawful course of the business.

(c)Members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, or Marine Corps of the United States, or the National Guard, when on duty, or organizations which are by law authorized to purchase or receive those weapons from the United States or this state.

(d)The carrying of unloaded pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person by duly authorized military or civil organizations while parading, or the members thereof when going to and from the places of meeting of their respective organizations.

(e)Guards or messengers of common carriers, banks, and other financial institutions while actually employed in and about the shipment, transportation, or delivery of any money, treasure, bullion, bonds, or other thing of value within this state.

(f)Members of any club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets upon established target ranges, whether public or private, while the members are using pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person upon the target ranges, or transporting these firearms unloaded when going to and from the ranges.

(g)Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition.

(h)Transportation of unloaded firearms by a person operating a licensed common carrier or an authorized agent or employee thereof when transported in conformance with applicable federal law.

(i)Upon approval of the sheriff of the county in which they reside, honorably retired federal officers or agents of federal law enforcement agencies, including, but not limited to, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Secret Service, the United States Customs Service, the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, the Drug Enforcement Administration, the United States Border Patrol, and officers or agents of the Internal Revenue Service who were authorized to carry weapons while on duty, who were assigned to duty within the state for a period of not less than one year, or who retired from active service in the state.

Retired federal officers or agents shall provide the sheriff with certification from the agency from which they retired certifying their service in the state, the nature of their retirement, and indicating the agency's concurrence that the retired federal officer or agent should be accorded the privilege of carrying a concealed firearm.

Upon that approval, the sheriff shall issue a permit to the retired federal officer or agent indicating that he or she may carry a concealed firearm in accordance with this subdivision. The permit shall be valid for a period not exceeding five years, shall be carried by the retiree while carrying a concealed firearm, and may be revoked for good cause.

The sheriff of the county in which the retired federal officer or agent resides may require recertification prior to a permit renewal, and may suspend the privilege for cause. The sheriff may charge a fee necessary to cover any reasonable expenses incurred by the county.

(j)The carrying of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person by a person who is authorized to carry that weapon in a concealed manner pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050).

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #94)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:47 PM

96. Nope; the actual RELEVANT portion of the law is here:

""15 Penal Code 626.9(c)(4) above specifically excludes persons under Penal Code 12027 subdivisions b,d,e, and h from prosecution under this law. Penal Code 12027(j) deals with persons who hold CCW permits. Because subdivision "j" isn't specifically listed as an exception under Penal Code 626.9, those who carry concealed weapons in a school zone…even with a valid permit…still violate the Gun-Free School Zone Act."

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #84)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:45 PM

92. See the relevant law - the REAL law, not some blog post on a RW site somewhere - here:

"15 Penal Code 626.9(c)(4) above specifically excludes persons under Penal Code 12027 subdivisions b,d,e, and h from prosecution under this law. Penal Code 12027(j) deals with persons who hold CCW permits. Because subdivision "j" isn't specifically listed as an exception under Penal Code 626.9, those who carry concealed weapons in a school zone…even with a valid permit…still violate the Gun-Free School Zone Act.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #92)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:48 PM

98. That's not the law. Here is 626.9

 

That text you are supplying was erroneously added by a website. What you posted is not from the CA government.

The text you are posting appears NOWHERE in the actual law.


http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/1/15/1/s626.9
CAL. PEN. CODE § 626.9 : California Code - Section 626.9

(a)This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.

(b)Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written permission of the school district superintendent, his or her designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as specified in subdivision (f).

(c)Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm under any of the following circumstances:

(1)Within a place of residence or place of business or on private property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the firearm is otherwise lawful.

(2)When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.

This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful transportation of any other firearm, other than a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, in accordance with state law.

(3)When the person possessing the firearm reasonably believes that he or she is in grave danger because of circumstances forming the basis of a current restraining order issued by a court against another person or persons who has or have been found to pose a threat to his or her life or safety. This subdivision may not apply when the circumstances involve a mutual restraining order issued pursuant to Division 10 (commencing with Section 6200) of the Family Code absent a factual finding of a specific threat to the person's life or safety. Upon a trial for violating subdivision (b), the trier of a fact shall determine whether the defendant was acting out of a reasonable belief that he or she was in grave danger.

(4)When the person is exempt from the prohibition against carrying a concealed firearm pursuant to subdivision (b), (d), (e), or (h) of Section 12027.

(d)Except as provided in subdivision (b), it shall be unlawful for any person, with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge, or attempt to discharge, a firearm in a school zone, as defined in paragraph (1) of subdivision (e).

The prohibition contained in this subdivision does not apply to the discharge of a firearm to the extent that the conditions of paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) are satisfied.

(e)As used in this section, the following definitions shall apply:

(1)"School zone" means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.

(2)"Firearm" has the same meaning as that term is given in Section 12001.

(3)"Locked container" has the same meaning as that term is given in subdivision (c) of Section 12026.1.

(4)"Concealed firearm" has the same meaning as that term is given in Sections 12025 and 12026.1.

(f)(1)Any person who violates subdivision (b) by possessing a firearm in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or five years.

(2)Any person who violates subdivision (b) by possessing a firearm within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, shall be punished as follows:

(A)By imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or five years, if any of the following circumstances apply:

(i)If the person previously has been convicted of any felony, or of any crime made punishable by Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 12000) of Title 2 of Part 4.

(ii)If the person is within a class of persons prohibited from possessing or acquiring a firearm pursuant to Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.

(iii)If the firearm is any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person and the offense is punished as a felony pursuant to Section 12025.

(B)By imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year or by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or five years, in all cases other than those specified in subparagraph (A).

(3)Any person who violates subdivision (d) shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for three, five, or seven years.

(g)(1)Every person convicted under this section for a misdemeanor violation of subdivision (b) who has been convicted previously of a misdemeanor offense enumerated in Section 12001.6 shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than three months, or if probation is granted or if the execution or imposition of sentence is suspended, it shall be a condition thereof that he or she be imprisoned in a county jail for not less than three months.

(2)Every person convicted under this section of a felony violation of subdivision (b) or (d) who has been convicted previously of a misdemeanor offense enumerated in Section 12001.6, if probation is granted or if the execution of sentence is suspended, it shall be a condition thereof that he or she be imprisoned in a county jail for not less than three months.

(3)Every person convicted under this section for a felony violation of subdivision (b) or (d) who has been convicted previously of any felony, or of any crime made punishable by Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 12000) of Title 2 of Part 4, if probation is granted or if the execution or imposition of sentence is suspended, it shall be a condition thereof that he or she be imprisoned in a county jail for not less than three months.

(4)The court shall apply the three-month minimum sentence specified in this subdivision, except in unusual cases where the interests of justice would best be served by granting probation or suspending the execution or imposition of sentence without the minimum imprisonment required in this subdivision or by granting probation or suspending the execution or imposition of sentence with conditions other than those set forth in this subdivision, in which case the court shall specify on the record and shall enter on the minutes the circumstances indicating that the interests of justice would best be served by this disposition.

(h)Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a loaded firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.

(i)Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for one, two, or three years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.

(j)For purposes of this section, a firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm. A muzzle-loader firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.

(k)This section does not require that notice be posted regarding the proscribed conduct.

(l)This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision (e) of Section 7521 of the Business and Professions Code.

(m)This section does not apply to a security guard authorized to carry a loaded firearm pursuant to Section 12031.

(n)This section does not apply to an existing shooting range at a public or private school or university or college campus.

(o)This section does not apply to an honorably retired peace officer authorized to carry a concealed or loaded firearm pursuant to subdivision (a) or (i) of Section 12027 or paragraph (1) or (8) of subdivision (b) of Section 12031.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #98)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:49 PM

100. Here's the relevant part of the law:

"15 Penal Code 626.9(c)(4) above specifically excludes persons under Penal Code 12027 subdivisions b,d,e, and h from prosecution under this law. Penal Code 12027(j) deals with persons who hold CCW permits. Because subdivision "j" isn't specifically listed as an exception under Penal Code 626.9, those who carry concealed weapons in a school zone…even with a valid permit…still violate the Gun-Free School Zone Act."

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #100)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:52 PM

104. You're shooting blanks over there. That's not in the law. That's a bunk interpretation. Not

 

the actual legal statutes.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Gun_Free_School_Zones
A PC 12050/26150 CCW allows permit holders to legally carry their listed handguns on both K-12 and college/university properties and campuses. That does not insulate a licensed student or employee of a school from administrative or job disciplinary action if the school prohibits carry for those groups.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #104)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:53 PM

105. Nope. Again:

"15 Penal Code 626.9(c)(4) above specifically excludes persons under Penal Code 12027 subdivisions b,d,e, and h from prosecution under this law. Penal Code 12027(j) deals with persons who hold CCW permits. Because subdivision "j" isn't specifically listed as an exception under Penal Code 626.9, those who carry concealed weapons in a school zone…even with a valid permit…still violate the Gun-Free School Zone Act."

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #104)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:56 PM

107. Yet *another* post not from a legal source, but from a Right-wing website. Niiiiiice....

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #107)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:57 PM

109. Who knew? In California: You can carry a gun in College with a Concealed Carry License

 

the sections of the law that it addresses. You'll find that the interpretation you are clinging so dearly to is without precedent or legal basis.

Go read 12027. It's just a list of people that can't be charged.

Go read 626.9 It list's CCW permit holders as people that are exempt to the GFSZA.

It's a loss for you on all sides. Reading comprehension and research. Don't every take the lazy path in a legal argument.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #109)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:58 PM

110. No, you cannot: that's very bad legal advice, and false to boot.

"15 Penal Code 626.9(c)(4) above specifically excludes persons under Penal Code 12027 subdivisions b,d,e, and h from prosecution under this law. Penal Code 12027(j) deals with persons who hold CCW permits. Because subdivision "j" isn't specifically listed as an exception under Penal Code 626.9, those who carry concealed weapons in a school zone…even with a valid permit…still violate the Gun-Free School Zone Act."

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #109)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:08 PM

120. Here's some more help with that false assertion in your reply - enjoy!

Save under very limited circumstances, you cannot strut around a California college campus with your pistol perched in your pants, period. Indeed, you can be subjected to criminal sanctions for doing so, not just civil administrative remedies.

Here is what an actual law firm made up of actual lawyers - not internet free-lancers - has to say about carrying a concealed weapon on a California college campus even if you have a California concealed weapon permit:

"Exceptions to the California Gun-Free School Zone Act

(*snip*)

specific persons who are authorized to carry concealed weapons such as those engaged in the business of selling, manufacturing, etc. firearms and those who are guards, carriers, or messengers for banks or other financial institutions.14 (NOTE: Having a California "carry a concealed weapon CCW permit under Penal Code 12050 PC does not exempt you from prosecution if you carry a concealed weapon in a school zone),15

Further:

"15 Penal Code 626.9(c)(4) above specifically excludes persons under Penal Code 12027 subdivisions b,d,e, and h from prosecution under this law. Penal Code 12027(j) deals with persons who hold CCW permits. Because subdivision "j" isn't specifically listed as an exception under Penal Code 626.9, those who carry concealed weapons in a school zone…even with a valid permit…still violate the Gun-Free School Zone Act.

And here's what can happen if you decide to take Shade Tree legal advice being peddled on the internet and get caught strutting about campus with your favorite heater tucked into your waistband:

"possessing a firearm on school grounds or on a university or college campus or their associated buildings is always a felony.20 (NOTE: Although colleges and universities are beyond the scope of the definition of a "school zone", possessing a gun on these campuses still subjects you to prosecution under California's Gun-Free School Zone Act.)

And even if you wave around your "concealed weapon permit" (assuming you can get one: California is a "may issue" state, and very few are granted in urban/populated areas), it'll likely do you little good, as the law is not on your side.

Further:

" However, if you possess a firearm within a school zone under a different set of circumstances from the three just listed, prosecutors could charge you with violating California's Gun-Free School Zone Act as either a misdemeanor or a felony"

It's not on your side under any number of circumstances.

See also:

""(h) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a loaded firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision. (i) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for one, two, or three years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.")"

So much for all that jazz about how "even if you get caught they can't put you in jail, just fire or expel you from campus": uh, yes they can.

So my advice is that the next time you find yourself itching to test out your "RKBA" rights, you choose a different venue than a California college/university campus, especially if you're only doing so on the advice of some anonymous Shade Tree lawyer on the internet: if caught, you could get into A LOT of trouble, and wind up in jail. And I don't think the "but the DU Gungeon said it was okay" defense will fly once you get before a jury.

*Link here: http://www.shouselaw.com/gun-free-school.html



Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rDigital (Reply #81)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:05 PM

117. Posting facts is such fun! Here's some showing you'll be arrested if try to "CCW" on a CA campus:

Save under very limited circumstances, you cannot strut around a California college campus with your pistol perched in your pants, period. Indeed, you can be subjected to criminal sanctions for doing so, not just civil administrative remedies.

Here is what an actual law firm made up of actual lawyers - not internet free-lancers - has to say about carrying a concealed weapon on a California college campus even if you have a California concealed weapon permit:

"Exceptions to the California Gun-Free School Zone Act

(*snip*)

specific persons who are authorized to carry concealed weapons such as those engaged in the business of selling, manufacturing, etc. firearms and those who are guards, carriers, or messengers for banks or other financial institutions.14 (NOTE: Having a California "carry a concealed weapon CCW permit under Penal Code 12050 PC does not exempt you from prosecution if you carry a concealed weapon in a school zone),15

Further:

"15 Penal Code 626.9(c)(4) above specifically excludes persons under Penal Code 12027 subdivisions b,d,e, and h from prosecution under this law. Penal Code 12027(j) deals with persons who hold CCW permits. Because subdivision "j" isn't specifically listed as an exception under Penal Code 626.9, those who carry concealed weapons in a school zone…even with a valid permit…still violate the Gun-Free School Zone Act.

And here's what can happen if you decide to take Shade Tree legal advice being peddled on the internet and get caught strutting about campus with your favorite heater tucked into your waistband:

"possessing a firearm on school grounds or on a university or college campus or their associated buildings is always a felony.20 (NOTE: Although colleges and universities are beyond the scope of the definition of a "school zone", possessing a gun on these campuses still subjects you to prosecution under California's Gun-Free School Zone Act.)

And even if you wave around your "concealed weapon permit" (assuming you can get one: California is a "may issue" state, and very few are granted in urban/populated areas), it'll likely do you little good, as the law is not on your side.

Further:

" However, if you possess a firearm within a school zone under a different set of circumstances from the three just listed, prosecutors could charge you with violating California's Gun-Free School Zone Act as either a misdemeanor or a felony"

It's not on your side under any number of circumstances.

See also:

""(h) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a loaded firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision. (i) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for one, two, or three years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.")"

So much for all that jazz about how "even if you get caught they can't put you in jail, just fire or expel you from campus": uh, yes they can.

So my advice is that the next time you find yourself itching to test out your "RKBA" rights, you choose a different venue than a California college/university campus, especially if you're only doing so on the advice of some anonymous Shade Tree lawyer on the internet: if caught, you could get into A LOT of trouble, and wind up in jail. And I don't think the "but the DU Gungeon said it was okay" defense will fly once you get before a jury.

*Link here: http://www.shouselaw.com/gun-free-school.html



Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:52 PM

103. It Should.

A campus not a forward area.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to orpupilofnature57 (Reply #103)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:10 PM

122. I agree 100%. n/t.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to orpupilofnature57 (Reply #103)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 10:07 PM

134. Well, no-one's ever claimed it was.

 

But people still need to defend themselves on campuses quite frequently. Are you volunteering to provide security for others?

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:06 PM

118. here is a question

it seems that one is quoting the part of the law that deals with K-12 and the other is talking about the university system.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gejohnston (Reply #118)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:11 PM

123. That is actually a good observation and question - this popped up on a lot of other legal sites

dealing with this matter when I was researching it. Best I can figure, the laws overlap in some areas, but if you find something out about it that's more definitive I'd appreciate it if you'd post it here.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:08 PM

121. Wow... still worryin' this useless bone huh?

For what it's worth, I believe him.

Man oh man you started this thread at 3 and have posted in it 57 times already. This horse is already dead and now it's getting bloody/pulpy. You should stop beating it.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to apocalypsehow (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 10:10 PM

135. I'm self-deleting this for now because I will not be able to attend to the OP

for most of the coming week thanks to events that have just come up, and do not want to be seen as "post and run." Plus, an unattended OP is grounds for all sorts of dishonest mischief by the usual suspect.

Text of OP that stood un-refuted at time of self-deletion:

Shade tree legal advice notwithstanding, carrying a gun on a CA campus will get you arrested*

View profile
Save under very limited circumstances, you cannot strut around a California college campus with your pistol perched in your pants, period. Indeed, you can be subjected to criminal sanctions for doing so, not just civil administrative remedies.

Here is what an actual law firm made up of actual lawyers - not internet free-lancers - has to say about carrying a concealed weapon on a California college campus even if you have a California concealed weapon permit:

"Exceptions to the California Gun-Free School Zone Act

(*snip*)

specific persons who are authorized to carry concealed weapons such as those engaged in the business of selling, manufacturing, etc. firearms and those who are guards, carriers, or messengers for banks or other financial institutions.14 (NOTE: Having a California "carry a concealed weapon CCW permit under Penal Code 12050 PC does not exempt you from prosecution if you carry a concealed weapon in a school zone),15

Further:

"15 Penal Code 626.9(c)(4) above specifically excludes persons under Penal Code 12027 subdivisions b,d,e, and h from prosecution under this law. Penal Code 12027(j) deals with persons who hold CCW permits. Because subdivision "j" isn't specifically listed as an exception under Penal Code 626.9, those who carry concealed weapons in a school zone…even with a valid permit…still violate the Gun-Free School Zone Act.

And here's what can happen if you decide to take Shade Tree legal advice being peddled on the internet and get caught strutting about campus with your favorite heater tucked into your waistband:

"possessing a firearm on school grounds or on a university or college campus or their associated buildings is always a felony.20 (NOTE: Although colleges and universities are beyond the scope of the definition of a "school zone", possessing a gun on these campuses still subjects you to prosecution under California's Gun-Free School Zone Act.)

And even if you wave around your "concealed weapon permit" (assuming you can get one: California is a "may issue" state, and very few are granted in urban/populated areas), it'll likely do you little good, as the law is not on your side.

Further:

" However, if you possess a firearm within a school zone under a different set of circumstances from the three just listed, prosecutors could charge you with violating California's Gun-Free School Zone Act as either a misdemeanor or a felony"

It's not on your side under any number of circumstances.

See also:

""(h) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a loaded firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision. (i) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or possesses a firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or administration by, a public or private university or college, that are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it is with the written permission of the university or college president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for one, two, or three years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.")"

So much for all that jazz about how "even if you get caught they can't put you in jail, just fire or expel you from campus": uh, yes they can.

So my advice is that the next time you find yourself itching to test out your "RKBA" rights, you choose a different venue than a California college/university campus, especially if you're only doing so on the advice of some anonymous Shade Tree lawyer on the internet: if caught, you could get into A LOT of trouble, and wind up in jail. And I don't think the "but the DU Gungeon said it was okay" defense will fly once you get before a jury.

*Link here: http://www.shouselaw.com/gun-free-school.html


Thanks for all who replied?

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink