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Sun Sep 2, 2012, 08:12 PM

 

If you knew a bullet was going to cause your death, would you be pro gun?

If all you knew for sure was that you were going to be shot to death, not when or where or by whom.

Still unconditional support for so-called gun "rights" on your part?

To change up the premise a bit:

If I knew that I was going to be beaten or stabbed to death unless I started carrying a gun with which to shoot my attacker, would I start carrying?

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Reply If you knew a bullet was going to cause your death, would you be pro gun? (Original post)
Loudly Sep 2012 OP
gejohnston Sep 2012 #1
Peepsite Sep 2012 #2
Loudly Sep 2012 #4
socialindependocrat Sep 2012 #3
jody Sep 2012 #5
CJCRANE Sep 2012 #6
ileus Sep 2012 #7
ProgressiveProfessor Sep 2012 #8
rrneck Sep 2012 #10
rrneck Sep 2012 #9
Atypical Liberal Sep 2012 #31
Downwinder Sep 2012 #11
spin Sep 2012 #18
Downwinder Sep 2012 #21
holdencaufield Sep 2012 #22
Downwinder Sep 2012 #27
gejohnston Sep 2012 #23
Downwinder Sep 2012 #26
spin Sep 2012 #24
MercutioATC Sep 2012 #12
HockeyMom Sep 2012 #13
spin Sep 2012 #19
SheilaT Sep 2012 #14
spin Sep 2012 #17
SheilaT Sep 2012 #29
spin Sep 2012 #38
MercutioATC Sep 2012 #25
SheilaT Sep 2012 #28
MercutioATC Sep 2012 #30
SheilaT Sep 2012 #35
MercutioATC Sep 2012 #36
holdencaufield Sep 2012 #15
spin Sep 2012 #16
Ashgrey77 Sep 2012 #20
slackmaster Sep 2012 #32
trouble.smith Sep 2012 #33
Clames Sep 2012 #34
discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2012 #37
Remmah2 Sep 2012 #39
sarisataka Sep 2012 #40
Loudly Sep 2012 #41
sarisataka Sep 2012 #43
Loudly Sep 2012 #44
Reasonable_Argument Sep 2012 #45
Clames Sep 2012 #48
MercutioATC Sep 2012 #46
sarisataka Sep 2012 #47
Oneka Sep 2012 #49
NewMoonTherian Sep 2012 #42
Euromutt Sep 2012 #56
Oneka Sep 2012 #50
oneshooter Sep 2012 #51
RegieRocker Sep 2012 #52
Loudly Sep 2012 #54
liberallibral Sep 2012 #53
Bosso 63 Sep 2012 #55
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #57
Hells Liberal Sep 2012 #58

Response to Loudly (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 08:15 PM

1. if you believe in pre destiny,

there is nothing you can do to stop the action. It would be a smuggled or illegally made gun, stolen from a cop, or even NYPD.

I don't know, would you?

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 08:17 PM

2. If you knew you'd be electrocuted. Would you join . The Amish?

 

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Response to Peepsite (Reply #2)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 08:21 PM

4. The Orthodox, and it's always Shabbat.

 

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 08:19 PM

3. Are you paranoid or do you piss off that many people? n/t

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 08:21 PM

5. If whatever substance you are on is your own concoction you need to patent it. nt

 

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Response to Loudly (Original post)


Response to Loudly (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 08:22 PM

7. Safety first...that's why I carry.

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 08:24 PM

8. It was the highest likelyhood until I turned 40 or so.

But it came with the turf.


BTW silly Shares...we know its you.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #8)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 08:28 PM

10. He had a chance to change his stchick

but appears to be operating without any imagination at all.

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 08:25 PM

9. Yes.

Because it would be the height of arrogant hypocrisy to demand millions of people give up a means to defend themselves to improve my chances of survival.

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Response to rrneck (Reply #9)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 08:02 AM

31. Thread winner.

 

Exactly. Firearms provide the best means of self-defense that exist today. Even though good people die from them, it does not change the fact that when facing violence and oppression, the best tool to stop it is a gun.

Denying good people the ability to use firearms in an attempt to save a few good people from dying from them is wrong.

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 08:34 PM

11. That is why I don't own a gun.

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Response to Downwinder (Reply #11)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 01:38 AM

18. That should be and is your decision ...

and I have absolutely no problem with your choice.

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Response to spin (Reply #18)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 02:13 AM

21. When you realize that you have a gun in your mouth

it is time to either pull the trigger or get rid of the gun. I chose the latter.

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Response to Downwinder (Reply #21)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 02:21 AM

22. How is that the gun's fault?

 

People who stick guns in their mouth probably shouldn't own them -- just like children under 3 shouldn't have toys with small parts.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #22)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 02:47 AM

27. Agreed, did I blame the gun.

People with some mental disorders should not have guns. And of course we all recognize when we have a mental disorder and exactly how bad it is.

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Response to Downwinder (Reply #21)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 02:22 AM

23. although I'm as pro gun as they come

I think you made the wiser choice. You are or did get help I hope.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #23)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 02:38 AM

26. Went through a very bad period before MS was diagnosed.

Chinese hamster ovaries have been a savior mentally and physically.

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Response to Downwinder (Reply #21)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 02:28 AM

24. I totally agree. (n/t)

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 08:35 PM

12. Assuming your premise, yes I would.

 

My belief in our right to own guns has nothing to do with a paranoid fear for my personal safety.

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 08:39 PM

13. When it's you time to go

nothing will stop it. I knew 2 men who worked in the Towers. One man took a sick day to play golf and the other was called the night before to a meeting in NJ. Not their time to go. It was for others. It will be same for guns, accidents, natural disasters, illness, etc.

I guess I believe in pre-destiny.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #13)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 01:53 AM

19. I don't believe in pre-destiny.

In fact I feel that a belief in per-destiny might cause a person to take unnecessary risks.

For example let's consider a hurricane. If you are told to evacuate you have to make a well reasoned decision. If you merely say, "Well if it is my time to go, than there is nothing I can do.", than you might make a foolish decision to stay and it could cost you your life.







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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 08:47 PM

14. If you knew you were going to drown,

would you always wear a life preserver?

If you knew you'd die in a motor vehicle accident would you never again ride in a car?

Your question is truly stupid. If you knew you a bullet was going to cause your death, maybe you shouldn't go to a midnight showing of Batman, or whatever that movie was. Because no one in that theater was going to be able to stop Holmes. Someone with a gun that night could have caused a whole lot more havoc.

To me, the correct question is, If I knew a bullet was going to cause my death, would I then be in favor of better gun control?

I currently have no idea how I'm going to die. I hope it will be peacefully, at home, surrounded by family. But no matter how I am going to die, I think we need better gun control in this country.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #14)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 01:36 AM

17. I may or may not agree with you ...

as you didn't define what you mean by better gun control.

I am a gun owner with a concealed weapons permit but I can see how some of our current gun laws could be improved and of course I feel that most reasonable firearms law should be strongly enforced.

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Response to spin (Reply #17)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 02:49 AM

29. Better gun control means

fewer people should have guns.

Right now we have all these incidents where people legally obtain many guns, lots of ammunition, and go out there and shoot up everything in sight.

If that's what the 2nd amendment apologists want, I just wish they'd be the ones to be shot up.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #29)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 01:33 PM

38. An estimated 80 million citizens own 300 million firearms in our nation. ...

While it is rare, some people who usually have serious mental issues do use their weapons to massacre others and the results are tragic. A high percentage of the remaining gun homicides in this nation are caused by gang warfare between drug gangs fighting over turf.

There is little that strong gun control can do to control criminal drug gang activity. Mexico has extremely strong gun control yet the cartels manage to smuggle in firearms not only from the United States but from other nations usually in Central and South America. Such gangs often use new fully automatic rifles, bazookas and hand grenades which are not sold by mom and pop gun stores in the United States. Controlling drug gang activity is a job for law enforcement but we should also consider legalizing some drugs such as marijuana as our War on Drugs is and has been a total failure.

The majority of those who have ran amok and committed massacres were waving red flags long before they went on their killing sprees. Obviously we need to develop a more responsive mental healthcare system in our nation that reports those who have truly serious mental issues to the authorities and their names should be entered into the NICS background check system for firearm sales. (Note: this is already the law.)

Of course better law enforcement to control gangs and a better mental healthcare system would not eliminate all firearm tragedies. When under the influence of alcohol or in a moment of anger, people often do stupid things. Sometimes they grab a firearm and misuse it. (We once tried to ban alcohol in the United States but were wise enough to drop that attempt as it was just as bad a failure as our War on Drugs.)

In 2009, there were 15,241 murders in the United States and 9,146 were caused by a firearm. (Source: http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/over-9000-murders-by-gun-in-us-39-in-uk.html) Therefore it is obvious that Americans do kill other Americans without firearms although these weapons were used in 60% of these crimes.

I feel that our best approach is the better control who owns firearms in our nation. We can best do this by tweaking and improving existing laws and by better enforcing them. We should be able to reduce the number of firearms tragedies significantly by using this approach.


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Response to SheilaT (Reply #14)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 02:32 AM

25. Close, but no cigar...

 

...the question posed is "If you knew that you were going to die by drowning, would you still support everybody's right to swim?"

Me? I would.

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Response to MercutioATC (Reply #25)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 02:48 AM

28. No, that's not the questioned posed.

It's about being armed. Wearing a life vest all the time is the same as being armed, in my opinion. One is in regards to water, the other in regards to the extremely small chance of being shot.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #28)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 02:53 AM

30. We're obviously reading the OP differently.

 

To me, it asks "If you knew a bullet was going to cause your death, would you be pro-gun?" (which is, of course, the exact wording of the OP)

It doesn't ask if I'd wear a protective vest and it doesn't ask if I'd be armed. It asks if I'd support gun rights.


...and, I would.

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Response to MercutioATC (Reply #30)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 12:47 PM

35. So you'd support gun rights ONLY if you knew a bullet was going to cause your death?

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #35)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 12:59 PM

36. No, I'd support them EVEN IF I knew a bullet would cause my death.

 

My support of gun rights is not solely conditional upon my personal safety.

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Sun Sep 2, 2012, 09:22 PM

15. My personal plan ...

 

... for death is to be shot by a jealous husband on my 100th birthday.

So, in order to increase the odds of that happening, I'm strongly lobbying for more Viagra and fewer gun restrictions.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #15)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 01:31 AM

16. LOL. Great post. (n/t)

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #15)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 01:56 AM

20. HA

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 09:28 AM

32. I know that the probability I'll die or be seriously injured in a car crash is far higher than...

 

...that of my being shot, yet I am pro-car.

Still unconditional support for so-called gun "rights" on your part?

Let me know when you find someone who actually feels that way.

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 10:24 AM

33. actually, you'll very probably die in a car wreck.

 

are you still pro-automobile. you're much more likely to die of cancer, stroke, or MI too, especially if that car wreck doesn't get you? Are you still smoking?

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 12:15 PM

34. Yes.

 

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 01:11 PM

37. Without a doubt...

...everyday, and twice on Sunday.

If you learned that you would die from capital punishment would you be against the death penalty or would you be against judges and juries, police and the governor who would sign the warrant?

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 01:58 PM

39. Guess what?

 

Nobody gets out of this world alive. 100% Guarantee.

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 02:41 PM

40. Since I likely will die someday

If all you knew for sure was that you were going to be shot to death, not when or where or by whom.

Still unconditional support for so-called gun "rights" on your part?


I don't believe guns have rights or "rights"

I do believe people, with limited restrictions, have the right to keep and bear arms including guns.

My eventual demise may or may not involve any or all of the permutations of that yet it will not change the fact that people do have those rights.

I very well may be killed by a bullet. It would be neither the first nor second time it has been tried. I will exercise my right to bear arms to do my best to avoid such an outcome and, more importantly, use my brain to avoid situations which increase the chance of being on the receiving end of gunfire

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #40)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 03:20 PM

41. I don't support your claim to any such "right."

 

For there cannot be any such "right" consistent with our genuine rights.

The most I can concede is that it is a politically influential indulgence of your personal fetish.

And a temporary one at that.

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Response to Loudly (Reply #41)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 03:54 PM

43. And if I said 'I don't support your claim to any such "right."'

to free speech, would it cease to exist? would those words disappear from the Constitution?

Rights are not a 'politically influential indulgence'. As Mr. Jefferson put it:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,


The rights exist whether they are denied or not and whether they are currently politically popular or not.

Life and Liberty- I have the right to bear arms and protect myself. You have the right that I may not use my arms to deny your Life or Liberty

Pursuit of Happiness- we each must realize that neither of us has the moral standing to deny the rights of others without just cause and due process. By respecting each others rights and acknowledging the limits of our rights we will all have Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

The purpose of the Government is to implement our power and rights equally for the good of all.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #43)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 03:59 PM

44. Unfortunately, my right not to be deprived of my Life

 

does me not a bit of good if you decide to shoot me.

All of my rights are thereupon terminated at your whim with extreme prejudice.

That's why any such claim of "right" on your part cannot be reconciled with any of our genuine rights.

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Response to Loudly (Reply #44)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 05:02 PM

45. It amuses me

 

That you think you get to decide which of our rights are genuine and which are not.

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Response to Reasonable_Argument (Reply #45)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 06:01 PM

48. Amusing and very sad.

 

Such a disconnection from reality isn't healthy for Shares.

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Response to Loudly (Reply #44)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 05:08 PM

46. I could hit you with a brick...

 

...or a car...or poison you...or stab you...or choke you with my bare hands.

All of these things would "terminate your rights". What makes guns different? The problem is the ACT, not the TOOL.

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Response to Loudly (Reply #44)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 05:42 PM

47. Maybe you missed the part

Where I noted I do not have the right to take your life. I am allowed defense, not murder.

As noted by others, if someone does kill you it really doesn't matter what they used-you are dead.

Your last statement begs the question who decides which are genuine rights? Should we submit to stop and frisk or Patriot Act privacy invasions because society at large has 'genuine' rights that trump our mere individual rights?

Who would you like to give that power to?

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Response to Loudly (Reply #44)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 10:20 PM

49. It has never been

my "right to shoot, you ,EVER, and will never be my right , unless you are legitimately threatening my life.

It is however, my right to own the tool to do so.

So my claim of my "right" to own a firearm, can indeed be reconciled, with your "genuine rights" and your right to life.

Shooting you =/= to owning a firearm. They are two different things entirely.

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 03:36 PM

42. If I knew it was going to happen, what difference would it make if I were pro or anti? n/t

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Response to NewMoonTherian (Reply #42)

Tue Sep 4, 2012, 01:28 AM

56. Bingo (n/t)

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 10:36 PM

50. In this life i have exactly one predestined event:

My death. My death will happen, when , where , how , why, really doesn't matter, i will be dead.
I have long advocated for all rights for all people, not just some rights for some people. That includes property rights, marriage rights, rights to live a lifestyle of ones own choosing, religious rights, rights of self defense, and many others, be they natural , civil, even so-called, or genuine.
Knowing the details of my death won't change the fact that i will die, why then would i change what good i can do in this world,concerning every persons rights, between now and my death?

People die every day, some from gun violence, my mother in law, was shot and killed in December of 2009, as was her husband, my wife was also shot and injured in the same incident. That tragedy has not changed my viewpoint on advocating for gun/self defense rights one whit, why then should knowing the details of my own death, do so?

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 10:47 PM

51. I spent 2 tours in RVN, and 30 years running around

Africa, Asia, and South America as a protection specialist. Been shot at more times than I can count by rebels, drug runners, and game poachers.

Been hit twice, cut several times.

Finally quit, it's a young mans game.

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 10:59 PM

52. I would want all pigs

 

removed from police force and replaced with professionals. I would make my sure gun is in top notch working condition for hardened criminals. My risk of being shot is far greater from these two venues.

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Response to RegieRocker (Reply #52)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 11:23 PM

54. You forgot road rage compadre.

 

Somebody putting a slug in your skull because they disagree with the way you drive.

Very capricious but that's what American gun culture is about. Caprice.

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 11:11 PM

53. Absolutely WOULD be!!!

 

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Mon Sep 3, 2012, 11:33 PM

55. Nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Tue Sep 4, 2012, 01:11 PM

57. If you knew a criminal (who got off on a technicality) would murder you

 

and your whole family, would you still support the 4th amendment?

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Response to Loudly (Original post)

Wed Sep 5, 2012, 06:23 PM

58. It's not the bullet that would cause my death.

 

It would be the criminal who pulled the trigger. It's why I'm anti-criminal.

While I've never been shot, I did find myself looking down the barrel of a .38 while being mugged just outside of New Haven, Ct. That didn't change my view of guns because I know if I was shot, it wouldn't have been the gun's fault, but the mugger's.

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