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Wed Jul 25, 2012, 04:10 PM

Bob Shrum speaks honestly about Gun Control, and it's effects on elections

I posted this the other day in GD, where it promptly disappeared off the front page, but it is a very important read for those thinking about forcing the issue of Gun Control. He hits the nail on the head.. A few excerpts...

The stark reality is that the half-century battle for gun control has been lost politically—again, and again, now perhaps permanently



Then came an apparent breakthrough in 1994—and an intense and immediate backlash. I was on a phone call with President Clinton, House Speaker Tom Foley, and Majority Leader Dick Gephardt during which the president decided to push ahead with two bills: a ban on semiautomatic assault weapons, and the Brady Bill to require a five-day waiting period and a background check for handgun sales. Foley and Gephardt warned that the legislation could decimate Democrats in the midterm elections. They were right. Democrats lost the House; Foley, who enraged his rural constituents by voting for the Clinton package, lost his own seat.



You can debate the reasons for the change in public opinion; remember though, that those who favored modestly tougher restrictions paid a political price even when they apparently were on the safe side of the electorate. Advocates of gun control plainly aren’t there now.


.....and even many Democrats. And many others who in their hearts may favor gun control now treat it as the issue that dares not speak its name. They’re not cynical, they’re practical. They believe, correctly, that they can’t bend the arc of public opinion—and if they try, they will jeopardize not only the winning of elections, but the prospects for winning other great purposes such as economic justice and equal rights. This is more than a rationalization. It is an inescapable fact of politics today.


He understands what the push for gun control, can cost us in the long run.. People must realize that the battle for gun control, has bled many Democrat seats, and cost us dearly in our pushes for Health Care, and getting rid of the Bush tax cuts. Those that lost their seats because of gun control, now have Rupukes in them instead.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/24/for-obama-romney-and-america-gun-control-is-dead.html

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Reply Bob Shrum speaks honestly about Gun Control, and it's effects on elections (Original post)
virginia mountainman Jul 2012 OP
russspeakeasy Jul 2012 #1
virginia mountainman Jul 2012 #2
leveymg Jul 2012 #3
gejohnston Jul 2012 #4
virginia mountainman Jul 2012 #5
Hoyt Jul 2012 #6
virginia mountainman Jul 2012 #7
CokeMachine Jul 2012 #8
Hoyt Jul 2012 #9
CokeMachine Jul 2012 #12
virginia mountainman Jul 2012 #14
Hoyt Jul 2012 #17
CokeMachine Jul 2012 #18
virginia mountainman Jul 2012 #16
rl6214 Jul 2012 #23
Hoyt Jul 2012 #24
rl6214 Jul 2012 #25
virginia mountainman Jul 2012 #11
CokeMachine Jul 2012 #13
virginia mountainman Jul 2012 #15
spin Jul 2012 #10
Shilka-Gunluvr Jul 2012 #19
leveymg Jul 2012 #21
slackmaster Jul 2012 #20
virginia mountainman Jul 2012 #22

Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 04:19 PM

1. My only concern: Schrum speaks for whoever is paying him.

He did his stint on msnbc, then fox, now back to msnbc.

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Response to russspeakeasy (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 04:24 PM

2. Yes, but he it watched it all go down, up close..

Excerpts from "My Life" by Bill Clinton:

"Just before the House vote (on the crime bill), Speaker Tom Foley and majority leader Dick Gephardt had made a last-ditch appeal to me to remove the assault weapons ban from the bill. They argued that many Democrats who represented closely divided districts had already...defied the NRA once on the Brady bill vote. They said that if we made them walk the plank again on the assault weapons ban, the overall bill might not pass, and that if it did, many Democrats who voted for it would not survive the election in November. Jack Brooks, the House Judiciary Committee chairman from Texas, told me the same thing...Jack was convinced that if we didn't drop the ban, the NRA would beat a lot of Democrats by terrifying gun owners....Foley, Gephardt, and Brooks were right and I was wrong. The price...would be heavy casualties among its defenders." (Pages 611-612)

"On November 8, we got the living daylights beat out of us, losing eight Senate races and fifty-four House seats, the largest defeat for our party since 1946....The NRA had a great night. They beat both Speaker Tom Foley and Jack Brooks, two of the ablest members of Congress, who had warned me this would happen. Foley was the first Speaker to be defeated in more than a century. Jack Brooks had supported the NRA for years and had led the fight against the assault weapons ban in the House, but as chairman of the Judiciary Committee he had voted for the overall crime bill even after the ban was put into it. The NRA was an unforgiving master: one strike and you're out. The gun lobby claimed to have defeated nineteen of the twenty-four members on its hit list. They did at least that much damage...." (Pages 629-630)

"One Saturday morning, I went to a diner in Manchester full of men who were deer hunters and NRA members. In impromptu remarks, I told them that I knew they had defeated their Democratic congressman, Dick Swett, in 1994 because he voted for the Brady bill and the assault weapons ban. Several of them nodded in agreement." (Page 699)

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Response to virginia mountainman (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 05:24 PM

3. At this point, the outrage against automatic weapons outweighs the NRA's ire. This isn't '94.

The candidate that now runs against the NRA, openly and vigorously, will pick up votes among people who otherwise would have sat out this one.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #3)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 05:27 PM

4. is this 1933?

automatic weapons were not used, and they are strictly regulated since the 1930s.
you mean semi automatic military look alike rifles.
Automatic weapon=machine gun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act

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Response to leveymg (Reply #3)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 05:47 PM

5. No...

No, it's not 1994, then the NRA was relativity weak, and almost beaten...NOW, they are MUCH MUCH stronger, with lots of popular support.... Even among Democrats....

And by running AGAINST the NRA, they will draw to themselves the ire of angry voters, and fail, like many elected officials before. Gun Control is ONLY popular in a few small areas of the US, the rest of the nation, gun control is the kiss of death. And it will draw out masses with open check books against them.

You must realize that a majority of the Public, have favorable views of the NRA.

If you pick a fight, in this election year, you must be willing to accept the consequences of a defeat.. You are the one choosing to ignore the lessons of many lost seats.

You fail to realize that in EVERY ELECTION CYCLE since 1994, the NRA, and Gun Rights supporters pick up seats, and power, and gun control supports loose seats and influence?

The outrage you speak of, is only on the nightly news, and in a few congressional relics of a bygone era, the rest of the nation simply will not stand for it.

I have done all I can do to warn my fellow Democrats about this, chose to ignore it at your on risk..

I mean, after all, how bad CAN 4 years of Romney be?!/!

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Response to virginia mountainman (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 06:08 PM

6. Are you saying you'd vote for a Republican bigot if the Democratic candidate said it's time to do

something about guns?


Let's just let Grover Norquist -- NRA Board, America for Tax Reform, bigot, etc. -- and those like him run right over us to make the gun culture happy. Screw that.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #6)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 06:17 PM

7. No....But I will do as I have done before..

You must understand that in Virginia, I am very politicaly active, and when faced with a canadate that makes a foolish decision to give lip service to gun control, I do, as I have done in the past....

Withhold support, not volunteer, no door-knocking, no phone banking, no bringing people to vote, and lastly, NO CHECK...

And I simply will not vote on election day...

I sit at home on election night, and watch them loose...

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Response to virginia mountainman (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 06:38 PM

8. I'm sure your post was alerted

 

as advocating not voting. That what the anti-gun-religionists are always trying to do in the Gungeon. I will still vote for the Democratic candidate but I have many family and friends that will not and they are very vocal and active.

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Response to CokeMachine (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 06:54 PM

9. As one who gets alerted on all the time, you can take the word "anti" out of your statement.

At this point in my life, I no longer hang out with people who would vote Republican (or stay at home) over guns. That's pretty messed up if you ask me.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 07:28 PM

12. But wouldn't that make you a gun-religionists wouldn't it?

 

Out here (N. California) we are a little more tolerant of other's views. If I were to abandon family and friends for their views, where I don't agree, it would be a lonely place. My group of people realize that people have differing views and agree to disagree. We also agree that voting is private and we don't share that info so I wouldn't know who I'm supposed to hate for one reason or another. Actually I've never ever hated any living thing in my life. I've had to dispatch a few creatures but it was out of compassion not hatred.

By the way, I don't strap anything on when I leave the house. I really don't know if I would even if I were rich or powerful enough to get the permit. I do have a defense weapon at home and keep one handy when camping. Lot's of drug grows and crazy people in Mendocino and Lake counties.

Have a good night.

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Response to CokeMachine (Reply #12)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 07:36 PM

14. Some folks forget that..

Democrats are the "big tent" party. And like to insult and denigrate those who don't believe 100% the way they do.

It is very unbecoming, how a loud few, can drip with so much vitriol, and actually hurt our party when they happen to be over heard spouting there BS in public.

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Response to CokeMachine (Reply #12)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 08:41 PM

17. Actually, you are wrong again, but I know what you meant.

That what the anti-gun-religionists are always trying to do in the Gungeon


Remove "anti" and you get: "That what the gun-religionists are always trying to do in the Gungeon."


I any event, I understood what you meant.

Truth is, I'm very tolerant of almost everyone except Republicans (politically), and those who think guns are good for society.

Leave your guns at home, and I'll hug everyone one of you guys.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #17)

Thu Jul 26, 2012, 12:09 AM

18. I get it now.

 

And your post finally makes sense.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 07:39 PM

16. Hmmm...

As one who gets alerted on all the time


Shouldn't that fact alone tell you something?

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #9)

Sat Jul 28, 2012, 04:20 PM

23. "I no longer hang out with people who would vote Republican "

 

That's pretty messed up if you ask me. Just because I have political differences with someone dosen't mean I can't be friends with them. Your way of living is pretty fanatical if you ask me.

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Response to rl6214 (Reply #23)

Sat Jul 28, 2012, 04:32 PM

24. If you have a lot of gun culture friends -- it's likely most are right wing.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #24)

Sat Jul 28, 2012, 10:08 PM

25. That's just bullshit. I don't know that any of my friends I shoot with would be considered

 

"right wing" although we go out to shoot and have a good time. None of them have NRA or Romney for Pres stickers on their cars or trucks.

Your "likely most are right wing" statement is just your warped bias and typical stereotyping.

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Response to CokeMachine (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 07:25 PM

11. I am not advocating anything in that post..

I was just stating fact.. No way, would I vote to support a candidate, that thinks the best way to fight violent crime, is to restrict MY civil liberties. It simply will not happen.

No doubt others in here have an issue that would garner the same response. Like LGB folks, Labor Supporters, Pro Choice, etc.....

Mine just happens to be Gun Rights.

If some people have a problem with that reality, it is THEIR problem, and not mine.

I know LOTS and LOTS of people that will vote AGAINST gun control, even if it means voting for a Repuke. Let the Democrat start talking about gun control, and they get ANGRY, and not only support and open their wallets to the opposition.

Election results of the past 18 years bear this out. Only the "true" warriors of the gun control movement ignore that.

A few years ago, for state office, we even had a REPUKE, run on a Gun Control platform, she even brought in Mayor Bloomberg for support, and she got handily defeated by a pro gun Democrat.

I had a big LOL over that one!!!!!!!!!!!!

EDIT, here she is...a REPUKE, running on a gun control platform...she lost....

Here interview with Bloomberg...
&feature=related

One of her ads..

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Response to virginia mountainman (Reply #11)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 07:36 PM

13. I know you weren't

 

but the way shit gets twisted around here sometimes is really frustrating. FYI -- I've been collecting guns since I was 16 years old when I bought my first 10-22. They were quite new at the time. Had to leave most of the cool stuff in Idaho when I moved to California because the way the laws change here you never know what's legal and what's not.

Time for a beer and the local watering hole. Have a great night!!!

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Response to CokeMachine (Reply #13)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 07:37 PM

15. You too!

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #6)

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 07:14 PM

10. If the Democratic candidate wished to implement draconian gun laws ...

such as requiring the federal registration of all firearms or the banning and confiscation of all semi-auto firearms or all firearms I definitely would not vote for him. I have an inherent distrust of government as many Americans do. It is debatable if an armed citizenry could actually overthrow a dictatorial government but eliminating such ownership might actually encourage a tyrant or the big corporations and the 1% to try to gain control and basically eliminate the freedoms we were granted by the Founders. Our War on Terror has already lead to a loss of our rights. Civilian ownership of firearms is a deterrent for any oppressive government. Eighty million individuals own three hundred million firearms in our nation. Governments in nations with strong gun control have fallen when their citizens finally grew fed up and rebelled. In Libya no private citizens had access to any firearms but the people of that nation managed to get arms and overthrew Colonel Muammar Gaddafi in a violent revolution.

If the candidate wanted to improve the NICS background check or require a background check for all private sales of firearms, I would vote for him.

If the candidate wished to reinstate another "assault weapons" ban which I considered a foolish and useless "feel good" law as it did not ban "assault weapons" and in fact was a prime factor in their popularity today I would carefully consider his views on other subjects and compare him to his opponent. I worry about electing a fool to office but being wrong on one thing does not necessarily disqualify a candidate for my vote as long as he agrees with my viewpoint on other subjects. I would likely vote for him as I find the Republican view on many topics repugnant.







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Response to leveymg (Reply #3)

Thu Jul 26, 2012, 10:11 AM

19. Really?

 

No, it's closer to 2014 than 1994 but the lesson is the same for any politician who chooses to ignore it. Cross gun owners and see what the result is. I just don't think any politician with half a brain will ever listen to u anti-gunners again. It's really not worth losing their high paying job for.

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Response to Shilka-Gunluvr (Reply #19)

Thu Jul 26, 2012, 11:00 AM

21. Welcome to DU

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Response to russspeakeasy (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 26, 2012, 10:13 AM

20. Your concern is noted

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #20)

Sat Jul 28, 2012, 03:17 PM

22. yep nt

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