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Thu May 17, 2012, 05:02 PM

if anyone is interested -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002698194

60-plus guns going back to 3 members of Hutaree militia

Now that they've been vindicated, three Hutaree militia defendants are getting their guns and ammunition back.

The court concluded that they are entitled to get their 60-plus guns back, along with hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammunition.

U.S. District Judge Victoria Roberts filed an order Tuesday that would allow Thomas Piatek to get his weapons back. That includes 41 guns -- shotguns, rifles, handguns and an AK47 -- along with more than 100,000 rounds of ammunition.

The weapons and ammo were seized from his Indiana home during an FBI raid in 2009, which led to his arrest. He was imprisoned for two years on charges that he helped plot an anti-government revolt.

Piatek's lawyer Arthur Weiss said his client will never get those two years back, but rightfully will get his weapons back.

"Since they didn't engage in criminal activity, their lawfully maintained weapons and ammunition should be returned. The government has no basis to keep law-abiding citizens from exercising their Second Amendment rights."...

http://www.freep.com/article/20120516/NEWS01/205160439

42 replies, 3901 views

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Arrow 42 replies Author Time Post
Reply if anyone is interested - (Original post)
Tuesday Afternoon May 2012 OP
Warren Stupidity May 2012 #1
krispos42 May 2012 #12
Warren Stupidity May 2012 #19
GreenStormCloud May 2012 #22
Warren Stupidity May 2012 #23
Glaug-Eldare May 2012 #24
GreenStormCloud May 2012 #26
GreenStormCloud May 2012 #27
gejohnston May 2012 #28
friendly_iconoclast May 2012 #30
Warren Stupidity May 2012 #31
friendly_iconoclast May 2012 #32
Warren Stupidity May 2012 #33
Glaug-Eldare May 2012 #34
hack89 May 2012 #35
Warren Stupidity May 2012 #36
hack89 May 2012 #37
Warren Stupidity May 2012 #39
hack89 May 2012 #40
krispos42 May 2012 #38
Warren Stupidity May 2012 #41
aikoaiko May 2012 #2
Glaug-Eldare May 2012 #3
spin May 2012 #4
Hoyt May 2012 #6
PavePusher May 2012 #13
Hoyt May 2012 #5
Glaug-Eldare May 2012 #7
Hoyt May 2012 #8
discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #9
ileus May 2012 #11
Tejas May 2012 #21
ileus May 2012 #10
TheCowsCameHome May 2012 #14
gejohnston May 2012 #15
TheCowsCameHome May 2012 #17
gejohnston May 2012 #20
Tuesday Afternoon May 2012 #16
TheCowsCameHome May 2012 #18
Tuesday Afternoon May 2012 #25
friendly_iconoclast May 2012 #29
Meiko May 2012 #42

Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 05:08 PM

1. Fucking fabulous.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #1)

Thu May 17, 2012, 06:42 PM

12. If the gov't doesn't want them to have the guns and ammo...

...then the gov't should make a offer.

Say, $45,000 for the 60 guns and $25,000 for the 100,000 rounds of ammo.

Ballpark figures, of course.


Unless you think the government should just take $70,000 worth of these people's property?

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #12)

Thu May 17, 2012, 08:20 PM

19. Yes actually.

So just to be clear, you are happy that a bunch of rightwing racist radicals have been rearmed?

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #19)

Thu May 17, 2012, 08:48 PM

22. Unless rights are protected for everybody then nobody will have rights. N/T

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #22)

Thu May 17, 2012, 08:54 PM

23. It was a simple question.

Are you happy that these fuck nuts are getting their massive arsenal back?

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #23)

Thu May 17, 2012, 09:02 PM

24. Yes, I'm happy that they received (over)due process.

Last edited Fri May 18, 2012, 04:11 AM - Edit history (2)

Protecting the freedoms of unpopular people is a good test of how seriously you believe in those freedoms. I don't want terror suspects tortured in Egypt, I don't want the Illinois Nazis banned from demonstrating, I don't want the police to search an ex-convict's home without a warrant, I don't want a gang member beaten for refusing to incriminate himself, and I don't want acquitted militiamen to have their property stolen from them.

EDIT: I forgot about Skokie when I was writing this post...I was thinking of the guys from the Blues Brothers!

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Response to Glaug-Eldare (Reply #24)

Thu May 17, 2012, 09:50 PM

26. +1 N/T

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #23)

Thu May 17, 2012, 10:14 PM

27. It is always a good thing when the government is required to observe people's rights.

Yes, that must also apply for those groups that we don't like.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #27)

Thu May 17, 2012, 10:20 PM

28. true,

it seems John Adams is turning in his grave.

The Part I took in Defence of Cptn. Preston and the Soldiers, procured me Anxiety, and Obloquy enough. It was, however, one of the most gallant, generous, manly and disinterested Actions of my whole Life, and one of the best Pieces of Service I ever rendered my Country. Judgment of Death against those Soldiers would have been as foul a Stain upon this Country as the Executions of the Quakers or Witches, anciently. As the Evidence was, the Verdict of the Jury was exactly right.

This however is no Reason why the Town should not call the Action of that Night a Massacre, nor is it any Argument in favour of the Governor or Minister, who caused them to be sent here. But it is the strongest Proofs of the Danger of Standing Armies.
John Adams, on the third anniversary of the massacre

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #23)

Fri May 18, 2012, 01:17 AM

30. You *are* aware that there's no "niceness clause" in the Constitution? At least, I hope you are...

Seems I need to remind people of this on a regular basis:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=181522#182329


friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Sat Aug-02-08 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #129

144. Guess what? Civil rights aren't just for "our sort of people"
Edited on Sat Aug-02-08 02:04 AM by friendly_iconoclast

There is a very long history in American jurisprudence of people defending the civil rights of
people they wouldn't have over for dinner. Or who wouldn't have *them* over for dinner.

From John Adams (accused British soldiers in the Boston Massacre), to
the ACLU (Illinois Nazis vs. the city of Skokie), to Sabin Willett (prisoners at Guantanamo).

I wouldn't defend Razzano as a person. I would, however, defend his rights no matter how odious his ideologies.

See: Goose and gander, sauce for.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #30)

Fri May 18, 2012, 01:21 AM

31. I simply asked about emotional reaction to this.

I have said absolutely nothing about legal or constituitional issues.
Somebody else brought up Skokie. Was I happy that fucking nazis marched down the streets of Skokie? No. Nor am I happy that funcking nazi nut jobs got their arsenal back. Why would anyone be happy about that?

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #31)

Fri May 18, 2012, 01:32 AM

32. The constitutional issues are important, whether one sympathizes with these nutbars or not.

I certainly don't sympathize with them at all, and the second-to-last sentence of my (edited) previous post applies to the Hutaree (Hutarii?) as well:

"I wouldn't defend Razzano as a person. I would, however, defend his rights no matter how odious his ideologies."

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #32)

Fri May 18, 2012, 01:34 AM

33. So you are happy that a bunch of vile rightwing thugs got their arsenal back?

That news brought a smile to your face?

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #33)

Fri May 18, 2012, 01:52 AM

34. In a way, yes. Would you have been happy if they hadn't?

That is, if the government had confiscated property belonging to acquitted citizens on the basis of their political beliefs?

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #33)

Fri May 18, 2012, 09:03 AM

35. Does the government violating the civil rights of people you don't like

bring a smile to your face? The Patriot Act must of had you grinning for weeks.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #35)

Fri May 18, 2012, 09:41 AM

36. No that doesn't make me happy either. Where did I say it did?

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #36)

Fri May 18, 2012, 09:52 AM

37. You seem to think we support RW militias

why can't I assume you support authoritarian government policies?

You tell me - do you think the government should have kept the weapons? If so, what would permit it?

Or are you like me - I don't support heavily armed RW militias but think that due process concerning civil liberties is even more important?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #37)

Fri May 18, 2012, 11:53 AM

39. You seem to read a lot into a simple question.

Armed nazi militias do not make me happy. Nazis marching through Skokie, or Munich for that matter, don't make me happy. How you get from there to "you think we support right wing militias" is an interesting exercise.

My emotional reaction to these assholes getting their arsenal back was and is "fucking fabulous".

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #39)

Fri May 18, 2012, 11:55 AM

40. Why then the need to ask "That news brought a smile to your face?"?

why didn't you accept at face value that what he was happy about was the proper application of due process by the government?

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #19)

Fri May 18, 2012, 11:04 AM

38. No, I'm not happy.

But that's my opinion, not something I want for government policy.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #38)

Fri May 18, 2012, 11:55 AM

41. Exactly.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 05:15 PM

2. I was very surprised when these people were acquitted.


That's that in American legal system. Not perfect.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 05:16 PM

3. Good for them.

(Meant to post here in the first place...)

In principle, I like militias, but in practice the members thereof creep me out. It's one thing to arm and train for the common defense and a sense of civic duty, but another when the movement seems to be dominated by paranoid conspiracy theorists. But rights is rights, and if they're acquitted they oughta get their property back.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 05:26 PM

4. It's not unusual for a person who is interested in shooting ...

to own a large collection of firearms and a large quantity of ammo.

Firearms are often an excellent investment. We have just recently had a shortage of ammo for many common calibers and the price of ammo has been skyrocketing. It makes sense to buy ammo when it is cheap and available. Stored properly it will last for decades.

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Response to spin (Reply #4)

Thu May 17, 2012, 05:30 PM

6. Yes, these guys are interested in shooting alright -- either shooting or intimidating people.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #6)

Thu May 17, 2012, 07:03 PM

13. So much so that the government was able to convict them in court...

 

Oh. Wait a minute.

Then again, we all know you prefer rule-by-fiat-de-hoyt.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 05:29 PM

5. So glad these racist terrorists got their guns back.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #5)

Thu May 17, 2012, 05:32 PM

7. Now they'll be ready

for when the Reptilian shadow government orders Obama to activate the chemtrail mind control device. Only they're immune because they don't drink municipal water contaminated with the mind drugs disguised as fluoride.

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Response to Glaug-Eldare (Reply #7)

Thu May 17, 2012, 06:11 PM

8. That -- and a dose of racism -- pretty much sums up a significant portion of gun culture.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #8)

Thu May 17, 2012, 06:27 PM

9. You just watch out...

...for the black helicopters and the spider-bots.

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Response to Glaug-Eldare (Reply #7)

Thu May 17, 2012, 06:35 PM

11. Don't forget the HAARP weather disruptor

I was a member of Chemtrail Central for a while....



"They're spraying us hard today!"

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #5)

Thu May 17, 2012, 08:44 PM

21. Your link to where they firebombed a day care center?

 

Please repost it if it's not too much trouble, I like to stay abreast of terrorist activities.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 06:31 PM

10. He should receive about 1.5m to go along with this property.

It's the least they should pay for false imprisonment.

41 firearms.......Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh what an arsenal.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2012, 07:11 PM

14. That's just wonderful.

Now they can spread their cheer and joy unhindered.

Fucking morons.

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #14)

Thu May 17, 2012, 07:23 PM

15. what cheer is that?

Piatek, Stone and Meeks were among seven members acquitted in March of plotting a revolt against the government that included killing police officers with guns and bombs. All faced up to life in prison, but their trial ended abruptly in March when Roberts concluded that the government failed to prove its case.
Have something against due process?

Seems that Mr. Stone had an unregistered/taxed machine gun. He is still facing that charge with the locals. Will the feds push the NFA violation? Not counting on it.

They may be morons, but looks more like victims of entrapment. The BoR is for everyone, even people we don't like.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #15)

Thu May 17, 2012, 07:58 PM

17. They'll likely be in the news again

I doubt they're done with their mission.

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #17)

Thu May 17, 2012, 08:29 PM

20. assuming the mission existed

they don't look smart enough to be criminal masterminds.

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #14)

Thu May 17, 2012, 07:51 PM

16. in case you are interested - - -

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #16)

Thu May 17, 2012, 08:00 PM

18. Well, not really.

Thanks anyway.

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #18)

Thu May 17, 2012, 09:16 PM

25. you are most welcome. Happy to oblige.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #16)

Fri May 18, 2012, 01:14 AM

29. My word, the self-appointed zampolits didn't care for that *at all*

One of them even wants posting privleges in Gun Control & RKBA restricted to "more equal" DU members...

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2012, 12:01 PM

42. They got their property back, good deal

 

Usually the government just steals it when they don't like you.

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