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Thu Apr 26, 2012, 01:20 AM

"Who needs a gun in a laundrymat" / "My car can be replaced"

Two of the most common memes of the gun control crowd: "Who needs a gun in a (bank/store/park/church/office/laundrymat)?" and, "I won't shoot someone over my (car/stereo/wallet/etc.)"

Here's a woman who was in the laundry room of her apartment when some teens attempted to rob her. Since she wasn't armed (who needs a gun in the laundry room; obviously she didn't live in fear like a rude toter), and since her property wasn't worth anyone's life, she handed over her keys (just give them what they want; the car can be replaced).

When they took the stolen car keys and went out to the car, they realized it was a stick and they couldn't drive it.

Angry, the three returned to the laundry room, where Langley and at least one other person raped and sodomized the woman, court documents said. Later, they forced her to a nearby apartment, where they attacked and robbed her friend, a 47-year-old man.

In the apartment, Langley and another one of the teens continued to assault the woman and forced her friend to perform a sexual act on the woman, court documents said.

The attackers threatened to have a gang leader return and kill them if they went to the police, court documents said.


The assailants were 15, 16, and 19.

This woman followed all the "rules" of giving in to the criminals to prevent violence, and we see how it worked out. Now does she have a right to "live in fear" and become a rude toter, polluting society with her death spewer?

23 replies, 2705 views

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Arrow 23 replies Author Time Post
Reply "Who needs a gun in a laundrymat" / "My car can be replaced" (Original post)
mvccd1000 Apr 2012 OP
Fresh_Start Apr 2012 #1
ellisonz Apr 2012 #2
mvccd1000 Apr 2012 #12
Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #3
GreenStormCloud Apr 2012 #13
Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #14
Callisto32 Apr 2012 #4
mvccd1000 Apr 2012 #11
Kolesar Apr 2012 #5
mvccd1000 Apr 2012 #9
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 #22
safeinOhio Apr 2012 #6
ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2012 #8
mvccd1000 Apr 2012 #10
safeinOhio Apr 2012 #15
DanTex Apr 2012 #16
gejohnston Apr 2012 #17
DanTex Apr 2012 #18
gejohnston Apr 2012 #19
DanTex Apr 2012 #20
gejohnston Apr 2012 #21
ileus Apr 2012 #7
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 #23

Response to mvccd1000 (Original post)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 01:32 AM

1. there was a gun

it helped the criminals perpetuate the crime.

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Response to mvccd1000 (Original post)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 01:36 AM

2. You think a gun could have stopped this crime? n/t

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 09:37 AM

12. You don't? n/t

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Response to mvccd1000 (Original post)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 02:38 AM

3. Horrendous story.

Minor point. Her apartment laundry room is hardly a laundromat. After being robbed in this laundry room, the woman just hung around finishing her laundry? Can't imagine why and it makes me wonder how her having a gun might have helped. Obviously the gun the kids had didn't help. Wonder where that came from. Thankfully, there is no hint that either victim has resorted to carrying a gun.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 09:38 AM

13. She was probably parked in front of the laundry room.

Likely took the perps only a few seconds to run to her car, discover it was a stick, and run back inside.

A gun of her own and situational awareness would have given her a chance to shoot their leader who had the gun.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #13)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 11:18 AM

14. Yeah, a cellphone might have helped too. Or Superman.

Situational awareness would very probably have helped her avoid the entire episode.

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Response to mvccd1000 (Original post)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 06:51 AM

4. I know this isn't the point, but...

seriously 3 would-be car thieves and not one of them thought to learn how to drive a manual transmission?

Actually, now that I really think about it, I'm a little incredulous about this story, overall.

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Response to Callisto32 (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 09:36 AM

11. The link is to today's Virginian Pilot newspaper

You can be as incredulous as you'd like, but the trial is over; this report is on the sentencing. Apparently the jury found it more believable than the audience here.

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Response to mvccd1000 (Original post)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 07:12 AM

5. RWers routinely circulate chain-emails describing disgusting crimes

The emails typically involve a black person committing the crime.

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Response to Kolesar (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 09:31 AM

9. Interesting...

... since that was a story from today's newspaper about the sentencing of three criminals who were convicted of the crimes detailed above.

Do I get to make a hasty generalization about what kind of people routinely discount media reports on the outcomes of criminal trials and sentencing?

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Response to Kolesar (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 11:19 PM

22. Such an on point response.

No wonder the anti-gun crowd is seeing such success these days.

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Response to mvccd1000 (Original post)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 07:13 AM

6. About 1 million traumatic brain injuries/year in the USA.

28% of those are from car accidents.
It would be a better investment in your safety to buy a crash helmet and wear it than to purchase a handgun and carry it. All of those that give the excuse of carrying a handgun, you never know when someone will pull a gun on you at the laundrymat or church or Starbucks, would be much more safe if they wore a crash helmet when driving.

I wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle but not in a car, but I do drive below the post speed limit. I will sometimes carry a gun when on a trip, but never to church or Starbucks. I'd probably be safer, statistically, if I wore a helmet all of the time than carried a gun all of the time.

However, there does not seem to be much of a "helmet culture".

Just an observation.

Now, I could post every car and motorcycle accident where someone was killed or injured and would not have been if they were wearing a crash helmet. If I were a helmet zealot, I could use those to pass helmet laws and argue for stricter enforcement of traffic laws.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 09:23 AM

8. Helmets lead to neck injuries

At one point some cop shops had their people in cars wear them but stopped.

They also lead to neck injuries in motorcycle accidents, but there the risk is clearly worth it.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 09:35 AM

10. No shortage of people who do that, either. :)

The contingent of people who love to push motorcycle helmet laws (most of whom don't appear to ride, anyway) seem to bear striking resemblance to the group of people who don't carry but love to push gun control laws.

It's almost enough to make a disinterested observer think it's more about the control than the safety.

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Response to mvccd1000 (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 11:36 AM

15. That is sort of what I was saying.

People that push for easy carry laws because it is for personal safety are not really pushing for safety. If they were really so concerned about safety they would wear a helmet when driving as statistics would show they are in many times more danger from a closed head injury while driving than having a robber shoot them.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #15)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 01:31 PM

16. On top of that, if it were really about safety...

...then people would carry pepper spray, not a handgun.

There really isn't any evidence that carrying a gun makes you any safer -- in fact the evidence generally points in the opposite direction.

Of course, there are scenarios where a weapon would be beneficial, but in almost all of them pepper spray would perform as well if not better than a gun. And if course, with pepper spray the risk of a fatal accident is almost zero. As is the risk of killing someone innocent.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #16)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 01:41 PM

17. in some cases you have a point

but there are scenarios where spray would be less than ideal. Enclosed spaces, multiple attackers, or any head wind would make it less than useless.
The cops are more likely to kill someone innocent than someone defending themselves.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #17)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 01:47 PM

18. But the scenarios become increasingly unlikely.

Of course you can concoct hypothetical scenarios where the difference between a gun and pepper spray saves the day, and every now and then one of those will actually occur in reality. But pepper spray covers the vast majority of the cases, with just a tiny fraction of the risks, both to the person CCW-ing and to other people around.

And, of course, there hypothetical scenarios where pepper spray is better. For example, shooting someone who is stealing property from you when there is no risk to your person will get you sent to prison for a long time. Pepper spraying them, while still probably illegal, is not as severe.

Which goes to the point that a lot of CCW-ing has little to do with safety and everything to do with the gun culture and the way it feels to walk around with a loaded gun.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #18)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 02:10 PM

19. maybe but

Last edited Thu Apr 26, 2012, 02:50 PM - Edit history (1)

Of course you can concoct hypothetical scenarios where the difference between a gun and pepper spray saves the day, and every now and then one of those will actually occur in reality. But pepper spray covers the vast majority of the cases, with just a tiny fraction of the risks, both to the person CCW-ing and to other people around.

not concocted, simply stated examples. Weird thing about having cops as family, that is actually dinner conversation, or at least in my house it was. The odds of either actually happening is very slim. Someone in the laundry room in her apt building is not likely to have either one.

And, of course, there hypothetical scenarios where pepper spray is better. For example, shooting someone who is stealing property from you when there is no risk to your person will get you sent to prison for a long time. Pepper spraying them, while still probably illegal, is not as severe.

You mean someone ripping off something in your yard while you are in your house? I'll just call the cops. Then again with some yard stuff, they might be doing me a favor. I understand shooting someone in your yard is legal in Texas, but I don't live there. In Florida and Wyoming (where I do live) yes, I would be going to prison.

Which goes to the point that a lot of CCW-ing has little to do with safety and everything to do with the gun culture and the way it feels to walk around with a loaded gun.

Or they listen to different self defense experts than you. Most CCW folks I personally know, I would not define as "gun culture". My FIL was an example. He had a CCW and a .32 ACP when he had a cash business. When he retired from it, he sold the gun and let the permit expire. As far as I know, it was the only gun he owned. Most people I know who are "gun culture" live in the woods or Mayberry, so never actually thought about it. Some of the folks here say they carry both. I have never been a fan of pop psychology, speculating what "I think most people who..." is mostly projecting.

edit to add one thing, it seems that Zimmerman was originally looking at pepper spray instead of a pistol, but Seminole Animal Control told him a pistol would be better against a pit bull. Since dogs have exposed mucus membranes (compared with a human), I would think it would be more effective against a dog than a human.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #19)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 02:46 PM

20. BTW, telling people that they are "projecting" is the epitome of "pop psychology".

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Response to DanTex (Reply #20)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 02:52 PM

21. perhaps,

but you prove my point about "I think people who....... is because........."

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Response to mvccd1000 (Original post)

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 08:14 AM

7. She can be proud she wasn't polluting society...

and all the attackers are uninjured.

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Response to mvccd1000 (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 01:05 PM

23. Just a question:

For those who say "My car can be replaced"; *How many times?*

I'm just looking for a number. Your car, wallet, phone... How many times is it okay to have yourself confrontationally robbed?

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