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mvccd1000

(1,534 posts)
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 01:20 AM Apr 2012

"Who needs a gun in a laundrymat" / "My car can be replaced"

Two of the most common memes of the gun control crowd: "Who needs a gun in a (bank/store/park/church/office/laundrymat)?" and, "I won't shoot someone over my (car/stereo/wallet/etc.)"

Here's a woman who was in the laundry room of her apartment when some teens attempted to rob her. Since she wasn't armed (who needs a gun in the laundry room; obviously she didn't live in fear like a rude toter), and since her property wasn't worth anyone's life, she handed over her keys (just give them what they want; the car can be replaced).

When they took the stolen car keys and went out to the car, they realized it was a stick and they couldn't drive it.

Angry, the three returned to the laundry room, where Langley and at least one other person raped and sodomized the woman, court documents said. Later, they forced her to a nearby apartment, where they attacked and robbed her friend, a 47-year-old man.

In the apartment, Langley and another one of the teens continued to assault the woman and forced her friend to perform a sexual act on the woman, court documents said.

The attackers threatened to have a gang leader return and kill them if they went to the police, court documents said.


The assailants were 15, 16, and 19.

This woman followed all the "rules" of giving in to the criminals to prevent violence, and we see how it worked out. Now does she have a right to "live in fear" and become a rude toter, polluting society with her death spewer?
23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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"Who needs a gun in a laundrymat" / "My car can be replaced" (Original Post) mvccd1000 Apr 2012 OP
there was a gun Fresh_Start Apr 2012 #1
You think a gun could have stopped this crime? n/t ellisonz Apr 2012 #2
You don't? n/t mvccd1000 Apr 2012 #12
Horrendous story. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #3
She was probably parked in front of the laundry room. GreenStormCloud Apr 2012 #13
Yeah, a cellphone might have helped too. Or Superman. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #14
I know this isn't the point, but... Callisto32 Apr 2012 #4
The link is to today's Virginian Pilot newspaper mvccd1000 Apr 2012 #11
RWers routinely circulate chain-emails describing disgusting crimes Kolesar Apr 2012 #5
Interesting... mvccd1000 Apr 2012 #9
Such an on point response. discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 #22
About 1 million traumatic brain injuries/year in the USA. safeinOhio Apr 2012 #6
Helmets lead to neck injuries ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2012 #8
No shortage of people who do that, either. :) mvccd1000 Apr 2012 #10
That is sort of what I was saying. safeinOhio Apr 2012 #15
On top of that, if it were really about safety... DanTex Apr 2012 #16
in some cases you have a point gejohnston Apr 2012 #17
But the scenarios become increasingly unlikely. DanTex Apr 2012 #18
maybe but gejohnston Apr 2012 #19
BTW, telling people that they are "projecting" is the epitome of "pop psychology". DanTex Apr 2012 #20
perhaps, gejohnston Apr 2012 #21
She can be proud she wasn't polluting society... ileus Apr 2012 #7
Just a question: discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 #23

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
3. Horrendous story.
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 02:38 AM
Apr 2012

Minor point. Her apartment laundry room is hardly a laundromat. After being robbed in this laundry room, the woman just hung around finishing her laundry? Can't imagine why and it makes me wonder how her having a gun might have helped. Obviously the gun the kids had didn't help. Wonder where that came from. Thankfully, there is no hint that either victim has resorted to carrying a gun.

GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)
13. She was probably parked in front of the laundry room.
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 09:38 AM
Apr 2012

Likely took the perps only a few seconds to run to her car, discover it was a stick, and run back inside.

A gun of her own and situational awareness would have given her a chance to shoot their leader who had the gun.

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)
14. Yeah, a cellphone might have helped too. Or Superman.
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 11:18 AM
Apr 2012

Situational awareness would very probably have helped her avoid the entire episode.

Callisto32

(2,997 posts)
4. I know this isn't the point, but...
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 06:51 AM
Apr 2012

seriously 3 would-be car thieves and not one of them thought to learn how to drive a manual transmission?

Actually, now that I really think about it, I'm a little incredulous about this story, overall.

mvccd1000

(1,534 posts)
11. The link is to today's Virginian Pilot newspaper
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 09:36 AM
Apr 2012

You can be as incredulous as you'd like, but the trial is over; this report is on the sentencing. Apparently the jury found it more believable than the audience here.

Kolesar

(31,182 posts)
5. RWers routinely circulate chain-emails describing disgusting crimes
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 07:12 AM
Apr 2012

The emails typically involve a black person committing the crime.

mvccd1000

(1,534 posts)
9. Interesting...
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 09:31 AM
Apr 2012

... since that was a story from today's newspaper about the sentencing of three criminals who were convicted of the crimes detailed above.

Do I get to make a hasty generalization about what kind of people routinely discount media reports on the outcomes of criminal trials and sentencing?

safeinOhio

(32,461 posts)
6. About 1 million traumatic brain injuries/year in the USA.
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 07:13 AM
Apr 2012

28% of those are from car accidents.
It would be a better investment in your safety to buy a crash helmet and wear it than to purchase a handgun and carry it. All of those that give the excuse of carrying a handgun, you never know when someone will pull a gun on you at the laundrymat or church or Starbucks, would be much more safe if they wore a crash helmet when driving.

I wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle but not in a car, but I do drive below the post speed limit. I will sometimes carry a gun when on a trip, but never to church or Starbucks. I'd probably be safer, statistically, if I wore a helmet all of the time than carried a gun all of the time.

However, there does not seem to be much of a "helmet culture".

Just an observation.

Now, I could post every car and motorcycle accident where someone was killed or injured and would not have been if they were wearing a crash helmet. If I were a helmet zealot, I could use those to pass helmet laws and argue for stricter enforcement of traffic laws.

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
8. Helmets lead to neck injuries
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 09:23 AM
Apr 2012

At one point some cop shops had their people in cars wear them but stopped.

They also lead to neck injuries in motorcycle accidents, but there the risk is clearly worth it.

mvccd1000

(1,534 posts)
10. No shortage of people who do that, either. :)
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 09:35 AM
Apr 2012

The contingent of people who love to push motorcycle helmet laws (most of whom don't appear to ride, anyway) seem to bear striking resemblance to the group of people who don't carry but love to push gun control laws.

It's almost enough to make a disinterested observer think it's more about the control than the safety.

safeinOhio

(32,461 posts)
15. That is sort of what I was saying.
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 11:36 AM
Apr 2012

People that push for easy carry laws because it is for personal safety are not really pushing for safety. If they were really so concerned about safety they would wear a helmet when driving as statistics would show they are in many times more danger from a closed head injury while driving than having a robber shoot them.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
16. On top of that, if it were really about safety...
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 01:31 PM
Apr 2012

...then people would carry pepper spray, not a handgun.

There really isn't any evidence that carrying a gun makes you any safer -- in fact the evidence generally points in the opposite direction.

Of course, there are scenarios where a weapon would be beneficial, but in almost all of them pepper spray would perform as well if not better than a gun. And if course, with pepper spray the risk of a fatal accident is almost zero. As is the risk of killing someone innocent.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
17. in some cases you have a point
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 01:41 PM
Apr 2012

but there are scenarios where spray would be less than ideal. Enclosed spaces, multiple attackers, or any head wind would make it less than useless.
The cops are more likely to kill someone innocent than someone defending themselves.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
18. But the scenarios become increasingly unlikely.
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 01:47 PM
Apr 2012

Of course you can concoct hypothetical scenarios where the difference between a gun and pepper spray saves the day, and every now and then one of those will actually occur in reality. But pepper spray covers the vast majority of the cases, with just a tiny fraction of the risks, both to the person CCW-ing and to other people around.

And, of course, there hypothetical scenarios where pepper spray is better. For example, shooting someone who is stealing property from you when there is no risk to your person will get you sent to prison for a long time. Pepper spraying them, while still probably illegal, is not as severe.

Which goes to the point that a lot of CCW-ing has little to do with safety and everything to do with the gun culture and the way it feels to walk around with a loaded gun.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
19. maybe but
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 02:10 PM
Apr 2012

Last edited Thu Apr 26, 2012, 02:50 PM - Edit history (1)

Of course you can concoct hypothetical scenarios where the difference between a gun and pepper spray saves the day, and every now and then one of those will actually occur in reality. But pepper spray covers the vast majority of the cases, with just a tiny fraction of the risks, both to the person CCW-ing and to other people around.

not concocted, simply stated examples. Weird thing about having cops as family, that is actually dinner conversation, or at least in my house it was. The odds of either actually happening is very slim. Someone in the laundry room in her apt building is not likely to have either one.

And, of course, there hypothetical scenarios where pepper spray is better. For example, shooting someone who is stealing property from you when there is no risk to your person will get you sent to prison for a long time. Pepper spraying them, while still probably illegal, is not as severe.

You mean someone ripping off something in your yard while you are in your house? I'll just call the cops. Then again with some yard stuff, they might be doing me a favor. I understand shooting someone in your yard is legal in Texas, but I don't live there. In Florida and Wyoming (where I do live) yes, I would be going to prison.

Which goes to the point that a lot of CCW-ing has little to do with safety and everything to do with the gun culture and the way it feels to walk around with a loaded gun.

Or they listen to different self defense experts than you. Most CCW folks I personally know, I would not define as "gun culture". My FIL was an example. He had a CCW and a .32 ACP when he had a cash business. When he retired from it, he sold the gun and let the permit expire. As far as I know, it was the only gun he owned. Most people I know who are "gun culture" live in the woods or Mayberry, so never actually thought about it. Some of the folks here say they carry both. I have never been a fan of pop psychology, speculating what "I think most people who..." is mostly projecting.

edit to add one thing, it seems that Zimmerman was originally looking at pepper spray instead of a pistol, but Seminole Animal Control told him a pistol would be better against a pit bull. Since dogs have exposed mucus membranes (compared with a human), I would think it would be more effective against a dog than a human.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,470 posts)
23. Just a question:
Mon Apr 30, 2012, 01:05 PM
Apr 2012

For those who say "My car can be replaced"; *How many times?*

I'm just looking for a number. Your car, wallet, phone... How many times is it okay to have yourself confrontationally robbed?

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