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Fri Apr 13, 2012, 12:28 PM

 

Gun Control Poll: Most Americans Support Right To Use Deadly Force, Have Favorable View Of NRA

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/13/gun-control-poll_n_1422625.html

WASHINGTON, April 13 (Reuters) - Most Americans support the right to use deadly force to protect themselves - even in public places - and have a favorable view of the National Rifle Association, the main gun-lobby group, a Reuters/Ipsos poll showed. The online survey showed that 68 percent, or two out of three respondents, had a favorable opinion of the NRA, which starts its annual convention in St. Louis, Missouri, on Friday. Eighty-two percent of Republicans saw the gun lobbying group in a positive light as well as 55 percent of Democrats -- findings running counter to the image of supporters of the latter party being anti-NRA.

Most of the 1,922 people surveyed nationwide from April 9-12 said they supported laws that allow Americans to use deadly force to protect themselves from danger in their own home, or in a public place. "Americans do hold to this idea that people should be allowed to defend themselves and using deadly force is fine, in those circumstances," said pollster Chris Jackson. "In the theoretical ... there's a certain tolerance of vigilantism."

The poll was conducted amid a nationwide debate over gun rights and race following the shooting of an unarmed black teenager, Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman, a neighborhood crime watch volunteer who is white and Hispanic. (Link to poll: http:// www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=5586)

The poll results will be welcomed by the NRA, which hosts Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney and likely nominee as a speaker at its convention on Friday. Eighty-seven percent of respondents - with high numbers among both Republicans and Democrats - supported the use of deadly force to protect themselves from danger in their home. Two-thirds said they backed laws permitting the use of deadly force to protect themselves in public.

(more at link)

I posted this in GD, but it was locked. Rather odd, given that dozens of other threads bashing the NRA and gun ownership in the last couple of weeks haven't been locked. Go figure.

86 replies, 9500 views

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Reply Gun Control Poll: Most Americans Support Right To Use Deadly Force, Have Favorable View Of NRA (Original post)
Johnny Rico Apr 2012 OP
MineralMan Apr 2012 #1
Johnny Rico Apr 2012 #2
Remmah2 Apr 2012 #4
MineralMan Apr 2012 #7
Johnny Rico Apr 2012 #8
MineralMan Apr 2012 #9
Johnny Rico Apr 2012 #11
MineralMan Apr 2012 #14
Johnny Rico Apr 2012 #15
MineralMan Apr 2012 #16
rl6214 Apr 2012 #21
MineralMan Apr 2012 #24
Johnny Rico Apr 2012 #26
Logical Apr 2012 #77
Johnny Rico Apr 2012 #79
Logical Apr 2012 #80
spin Apr 2012 #3
msongs Apr 2012 #6
spin Apr 2012 #17
rl6214 Apr 2012 #22
Hoyt Apr 2012 #34
spin Apr 2012 #38
Hoyt Apr 2012 #67
spin Apr 2012 #74
Hoyt Apr 2012 #82
spin Apr 2012 #85
gejohnston Apr 2012 #41
Hoyt Apr 2012 #68
gejohnston Apr 2012 #69
Logical Apr 2012 #78
bowens43 Apr 2012 #5
gejohnston Apr 2012 #18
spin Apr 2012 #19
rl6214 Apr 2012 #23
Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #10
rrneck Apr 2012 #12
gejohnston Apr 2012 #13
Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #28
gejohnston Apr 2012 #39
Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #53
gejohnston Apr 2012 #56
Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #58
gejohnston Apr 2012 #65
ToolMaker Apr 2012 #63
gejohnston Apr 2012 #70
ToolMaker Apr 2012 #72
rl6214 Apr 2012 #25
Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #29
rl6214 Apr 2012 #37
Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #52
Clames Apr 2012 #73
rl6214 Apr 2012 #20
Remmah2 Apr 2012 #27
Hoyt Apr 2012 #30
Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #31
MineralMan Apr 2012 #32
ManiacJoe Apr 2012 #33
Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #44
gejohnston Apr 2012 #45
Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #57
gejohnston Apr 2012 #61
Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #66
gejohnston Apr 2012 #71
Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #76
gejohnston Apr 2012 #81
Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #83
gejohnston Apr 2012 #86
Hoyt Apr 2012 #35
Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #50
gejohnston Apr 2012 #54
Hoyt Apr 2012 #59
gejohnston Apr 2012 #64
Glaug-Eldare Apr 2012 #84
ellisonz Apr 2012 #60
Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #62
HockeyMom Apr 2012 #36
Callisto32 Apr 2012 #40
HockeyMom Apr 2012 #42
gejohnston Apr 2012 #43
HockeyMom Apr 2012 #46
gejohnston Apr 2012 #51
Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #48
spin Apr 2012 #55
ileus Apr 2012 #47
Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #49
Glaug-Eldare Apr 2012 #75

Response to Johnny Rico (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 12:36 PM

1. Yes, it was locked in GD.

The post belongs here, not there. I see you've found the correct place on DU for it.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 12:40 PM

2. Is this also the correct place for the dozens of threads in GD bashing the NRA,

 

Gun ownership, and concealed carry that weren't locked?

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Response to Johnny Rico (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 12:57 PM

4. The actions and reactions are a barometer of how the debate is going.

 

If you're losing a debate, unplug the other guys microphone and make funny faces at him/her. It'll distract the audience from substance of the debate.

Past a point, gun prohibitionist zealots, ahemmm run out of ammo.

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Response to Johnny Rico (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 01:16 PM

7. I'd have to look at each thread.

But, I'm not a host in GD any longer, so I can't lock any threads.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #7)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 01:23 PM

8. Trust me, there have been plenty of threads in GD bashing the NRA and gun ownership

 

in the last couple of weeks.

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Response to Johnny Rico (Reply #8)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 01:26 PM

9. The ones I saw had sufficient political content to make them suitable

for GD, albeit marginally. Your OP had no such content. That Mitt Romney is addressing the NRA convention is political news, not guns. It may seem to be a fine line, but the line is there.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 01:47 PM

11. What about these?

 

Too many guns...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002550062

Oklahoma State Senator Justifies Need For ‘Open Carry’ Gun Law Due To Threat From Wild Turkeys
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002557848

Michael Smerconish was being interviewed on MSNBC and made a statement that he's a gun owner
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002553583

The Gunshine State
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1172&pid=29975

With all the Gun Violence All I can Think of is this Song
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002532033

How long before an NRA gun show near Oikos University?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=510873

All in GD in the last week.

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Response to Johnny Rico (Reply #11)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 01:55 PM

14. I don't know about those, nor am I going to go look at them.

You can alert on any of them, if you feel they should be in this group, instead of GD. Your OP belongs here, not in GD.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #14)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 02:02 PM

15. I'm willing to grant that my OP may belong here. As you said, it's a fine line.

 

But it's a bit frustrating when I present evidence of the inconsistent way such threads are being treated in GD (which is the whole point of this sub-thread) and you are by you own admission unwilling to look at such evidence.

Conversation over, I guess...what's the point?

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Response to Johnny Rico (Reply #15)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 02:05 PM

16. Why would I look at those? I'm not a host in GD any more.

I'm a host in Good Reads and in the Health Group.

There is no reason for me to examine posts in GD to see if they should be locked. I happened to notice your post, though, and I alerted on it. It got locked. There it is.

BTW, I'm not a gun grabber. I own several firearms, both recent and antique. I'm also not worried that the bogeyman is going to come and take them away from me. Have a nice day.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #16)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 02:39 PM

21. "BTW, I'm not a gun grabber. I own several firearms, both recent and antique. "

 

Typical answer from the fudds and anti gun zealots. 'But I'm one of you but I don't agree with you.'

Not saying you are an anti-gun zealot but that's just what many of them post.

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Response to rl6214 (Reply #21)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 02:45 PM

24. I'm not really interested in what others post.

I'm describing myself. Whether you believe me or not is of vanishingly small importance to me. Truly.

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Response to rl6214 (Reply #21)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 03:09 PM

26. I must admit to being very amused by the term "Fudd" to describe

 

those who condemn modern firearms while thinking that their ownership of more traditional rifles & shotguns is completely different...

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Response to Johnny Rico (Reply #2)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 04:06 PM

77. The NRA should be bashed. Not guns, but the NRA!

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Response to Logical (Reply #77)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 05:41 PM

79. Almost any thread in GD about the NRA inevitably lead to talk of "gun nuts", etc.

 

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Response to Johnny Rico (Reply #79)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 05:44 PM

80. I have alerted the "gun nut" posts but the jury never seems to mind.....

The old DU would lock them. Not anymore.

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Response to Johnny Rico (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 12:49 PM

3. No big surprise in the poll ...

Most Americans have commonsense.

.

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Response to spin (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 01:14 PM

6. somebody looks at you funny, blast em. that's common sense? nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 02:21 PM

17. No. I will also point out that commonsense is not believing everything the media tells you ...

about gun laws.

If the "Stand Your Ground" law in Florida actually gave a person the right to blow someone away because of a funny look, Zimmerman would not have been arrested yesterday.

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Response to msongs (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 02:40 PM

22. Only in the anti-gun zealot mind.

 

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Response to spin (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 04:18 PM

34. You weren't surprised majority oppose guns in churches, workplace, stores?

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #34)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 05:57 PM

38. To be honest, I missed the link to the poll in the OP ...

and I didn't find it when I tried my Google-fu.

Now that I have read the results at http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=5586, I am definitely surprised at how the results were reported.

For example:

62% oppose allowing people to bring a firearm into a church, workplace or retail establishment.

91% support background checks for gun purchasers.

69% support limiting the number of guns a person could purchase in a given time frame.

As opposed to:

Majorities support concealed carry laws and allowing the use of deadly force, both in homes and public places.

Significant majorities do not think police can stop all crime from happening
As a consequence, large majorities believe regular people need to step up to prevent crimes (leading to the Trayvon Martin incident).


I find it strange that when the results of a question that favors gun control is mentioned, exact percentages are shown and when the results of the question favor gun ownership and self defense, a generalization rather than an exact percentage is used.



But you asked ...

You weren't surprised majority oppose guns in churches, workplace, stores?

That would depend on how the question was worded. Were all three items linked together in one question such as, "Do you oppose guns in churches, workplaces and stores?" or was each place mentioned in a separate question?

Many people including a good percentage of those who carry concealed feel carry is unnecessary in a church. I don't because I don't believe that God puts a protective force field around a church to protect those that worship inside. However, I don't see any real need to carry a firearm in a workplace (although I want to be able to have one in my car parked at my workplace as I have to drive to and from work.) Many people who do not have a carry permit can't understand why someone would want to carry a firearm in a store. They never stop to think that it is a terrible idea to leave a firearm in a car where it might to stolen and some of the most dangerous areas in our nation are parking lots.

Without knowing if the three areas were lumped together in one question or were mentioned in separate questions, I can't really say for sure if I was surprised that so many people opposed carry in these three areas. I would also be nice to know the exact percentage of those who were opposed. It would make a big difference if 90% were opposed to carry in these three areas or if only 51% ( a majority) were against carry in those areas.












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Response to spin (Reply #38)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:56 PM

67. I get. Parts the pro-gun OP chose are good with you. The rest, which is against guns everywhere

is suspect and should be discounted.

I'm comfortable with the fact that the majority of the public don't want gun carrying yahoos in churches, the workplace, and/or stores. That doesn't leave much.

So how would you like the pollsters to go back and ask about "assault" rifles, and auto-, or semi-auto guns?

Then, would you and other gun carriers abide by society's preferences?

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #67)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 09:30 PM

74. I would like to see the same information reported about answers to questions ...

that favored gun ownership as for the questions when the answers opposed gun rights. Why is that asking too much?

You also stated ...

So how would you like the pollsters to go back and ask about "assault" rifles, and auto-, or semi-auto guns? ...emphasis added.

I suspect by your wording you also noticed that the report on the survey said ...

Nearly three-quarters of respondents said they supported limiting the sale of automatic weapons ...

Let's start by saying that at a minimum I would like the pollsters to at least know the difference between automatic firearms and semi-auto firearms.

Why should I abide by "society's preferences", whatever that means. I feel that I should abide by the laws in my state and by applicable federal laws. I legally own firearms and legally carry concealed. If you, or others like you, feel this is wrong then you can attempt to change firearms law. If most of the people in this nation agree with you, you should have an excellent chance of success.

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Response to spin (Reply #74)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 03:39 AM

82. Poll shows most do. So play with your guns a home out of deference to society. Just because laws

allow one to tote, doesn't mean you should do it. You can carry around a nazi flag if you want, but decent people choose not to do so. Guns should be no different.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #82)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 12:29 PM

85. I may not be a "decent" person in your opinion because I have a carry permit ...

and I carry.

That's fine. Your opinion of who or what I am is irrelevant.


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Response to Hoyt (Reply #34)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 06:03 PM

41. churches should be no different than stores or workplaces

church/state separation issue.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #41)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:58 PM

68. Correct -- guns should be banned in churches, stores, workplace, bars, parks, etc.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #68)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 08:18 PM

69. nope.

every state should be like Vermont.

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Response to spin (Reply #3)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 04:07 PM

78. You think favorable view of the NRA is "commonsense"? They are extremely right wing and liars.

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Response to Johnny Rico (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 01:01 PM

5. if true, most americans are idiots.......so what else is new?

they elected both ronnie and W twice......

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #5)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 02:33 PM

18. see post 13

W was not elected the first time.

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #5)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 02:34 PM

19. Are you suggesting that most Americans are idiots because they support the right ...

to use deadly force to protect themselves when attacked by an individual who intends to put his victim in a hospital or six feet under?

If so, you must feel that truly intelligent people simply either don't resist violent attack or only use non lethal force even when faced with an attacker who is using deadly force.

I have never considered myself to be extremely intelligent. Now that I understand that being a pacifist when faced with a deadly attacker is a requirement, I'm glad that I am merely street smart.

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #5)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 02:42 PM

23. Just because they don't agree with you they are "idiots".

 

Many of those "idiots" voted for Obama, Clinton "I voted for Hillary and Bill", Carter, Johnson and Kennedy (Lifetime NRA member).

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Response to Johnny Rico (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 01:29 PM

10. Most Americans support the death penalty too.

Most Americans are over weight. Most Americans couldn't name half the countries in Europe. Thanks for pointing out that most Americans are fucking ignorant. So fucking ignorant that most Americans re-elected Dubya and don't even get me started on Reagan.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 01:49 PM

12. Name one American

that can jump through a rip in the fabric of time.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 01:51 PM

13. most Americans did not elect Dubya

he lost the popular vote. If all of the votes in Florida were counted, he would have lost the Electoral College. He barely won in 2004.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #13)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 03:27 PM

28. I was talking about 2004. I said re-elected.

He won the popular vote by 3+miliion votes. That constitutes most.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #28)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 05:58 PM

39. re elected implies

he was actually elected the first time.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #39)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:11 PM

53. Ah, so you don't always agree with the holy SCOTUS

We're splitting some pretty fine hairs there GE.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #53)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:15 PM

56. Do You?

You should check out some of Steven's opinions you might not like. I don't always agree with anyone. The only ones who do are sycophants and ditto-heads.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #56)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:22 PM

58. I often disagree with SCOTUS

But I don't use a 200+ year old document to justify my opinions. Nor do I use opinion polls or corrupt legislatures. I go with facts, common sense and personal experience, all of which have worked very well for me.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #58)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:35 PM

65. same here

but I go with facts, personal experience. Albert Eisenstein said it best about "common sense"
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #13)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:33 PM

63. Almost hate to point it out, but...

most Americans did not elect Obama either. Voter turnout was 63% of eligible voters, with 52.9% casting their vote for our current president. That means that just over one third of eligible voters elected him.

About 132 million ballots were cast. This is about 40% of the population. That means that the actual percentage of Americans that elected President Obama is really only about 20%. Even if you don't count those not of age to vote (approx. 26% of the total population) the number that voted for Obama falls well short of a majority of the population.

Our elections are pretty much never decided by "most Americans". They are decided by a small portion of our population that casts their vote. Kinda sheds a different light on the idea that an individual vote isn't important.

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Response to ToolMaker (Reply #63)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 08:19 PM

70. true, but I was talking about those who voted

voter turn out does suck.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #70)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 08:38 PM

72. I understand...

But it is quite amazing how many people actually believe that the results of any election are truly representative of the will of the majority of Americans.

I would be willing to bet that if you interviewed every single American, the majority would feel that almost all politicians are worthless, money grubbing, elitists whose ambitions have nothing to do with the welfare of anyone but themselves. I can't offer much argument to that sentiment, either.

Politicians are like diapers. They both need changing regularly and for the same reason.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 02:45 PM

25. So glad you aren't living here with "most Americans", or are you?

 

I don't have such a terrible view of my fellow Americans. Do you even have American citizenship or are you just another foreigner ragging on the 'Ugly Americans'?

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Response to rl6214 (Reply #25)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 03:31 PM

29. Nice one r2d2. More right wing drivel.

Didn't realize the privilege of "ragging" was restricted to those who were born here.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #29)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 05:33 PM

37. R2D2

 

You're funny...NOT...

"more right wing drivel"

Keepin it classy I see

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Response to rl6214 (Reply #37)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:08 PM

52. I use it as a term of endearment to those who pose as robots.

I try to keep it classy, but you know what they say, "When in Rome..."
Why are you laughing if I'm not funny?

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 09:00 PM

73. Most Europeans...

 

....can't name half the countries on this side of the Atlantic either. Nearly as many Europeans are as obese as Americans too (6 out of the top 10 countries in terms of obesity rate are European). Thanks for parading your own ignorance...

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Response to Johnny Rico (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 02:35 PM

20. It's gun related by a pro-gun person posting it, of course it's going to be locked

 

But I thought the NRA was totally insignificant and everyone is against guns for self defense

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Response to Johnny Rico (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 03:16 PM

27. If you can't say something nice.

 

You must be posting about the NRA at the DU.

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Response to Johnny Rico (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 04:10 PM

30. Interestingly, respondents support tough laws, strong regulation, and no guns in churches/stores.

"Ninety-one percent of those who responded to the survey agreed on the need for background checks before a firearm can be sold. Only six percent said they thought gun ownership should require no, or very few restrictions."

"Nearly three-quarters of respondents said they supported limiting the sale of automatic weapons, and 62 percent oppose bringing firearms into churches, workplaces or stores." {I'm betting most folks consider semi-autos, automatics. Wish they had asked about "assault weapons"}

"A fairly large number of Americans support strong regulation, or at least moderate regulation of gun ownership," said Jackson. "Which is sort of counter to the narrative you often hear that legislators can't touch our guns or you'll have to pay."


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Response to Johnny Rico (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 04:11 PM

31. Let's look at the poll a little closer.

Americans are broadly supportive of restrictions or regulations on gun ownership.

Only 6% say there should be no or very few restrictions on gun ownership.
62% oppose allowing people to bring a firearm into a church, workplace or retail establishment.
91% support background checks for gun purchasers.
69% support limiting the number of guns a person could purchase in a given time frame.
74% support laws limiting the sale of automatic weapons.


Makes one wonder what the results might have been if more people were aware of the NRA's right wing agenda and it's pushing of SYG "license to kill" laws.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #31)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 04:14 PM

32. +100

It's good to look at the whole thing.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #31)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 04:16 PM

33. It also makes you wonder,

What would the results have been if the majority of the respondents actually knew what the current gun laws are.

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #33)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 06:41 PM

44. Exactly.

Talking to people outside of the Gungeon I find very few are aware of what is going down. The Zimmerman case will certainly increase public awareness.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #44)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 06:43 PM

45. I doubt it

Most people are getting misinformation about Florida's self defense laws, which have nothing to do with gun laws.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #45)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:17 PM

57. They would have nothing to do with gun laws if...

it weren't legal to carry outside the home. That's what gave George the courage to stalk a black teenager. Those two laws, which both encourage violence outside the home, are a public safety disaster.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #57)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:29 PM

61. the gun law CCW allows carrying outside the home

George did not stalk, look up the word. Illinois has been SYG since 1961, but no CCW. It does not encourage violence outside the home, I could argue that the lack of encourages violence by not allowing people the ability to defend themselves. It is hardly a public safety disaster. What is a disaster is taking everything the media says as the gospel truth, and pretend anyone gives a shit about justice.

One question, what if everything we think we know about the case is proven wrong in court? I've seen conviction by media to Richard Jewel, Casey Anthony, etc. When Chandra Levey was murdered, how many times did CNN claim "any now Gary Condit will be taken in". All of these were proven innocent. Some anti choice zealot did the bombing that Jewel was accused of. Ms. Levey was killed by a serial killer. The Anthony child, no one knows the cause of death.

Add that history to the fact that NBC faked 911 tapes.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120407/NATION/204070367#ixzz1rNqhQURz

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #61)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:40 PM

66. I have little problem with SYG if guns are not involved.

Especially in one's home, where I think a gun is acceptable, though not preferable.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #66)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 08:20 PM

71. I fail to see why it matters

I believe in the most effective means possible.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #71)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 03:38 PM

76. What do you mean by "the most effective means possible"?

Effective at killing or defusing a bad situation. If I have options to defend myself without resorting to a gun, I will exercise those options first. The use of a gun should be about it being a last resort, not a first choice because of it's supposed effectiveness.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #76)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 07:09 PM

81. inside the home, brandishing is not a crime

which do you think will defuse the situation faster
Offer them crumpets and tea while explaining why supply side economics is bullshit or put a .357 in their face and make it clear they have three choices.
Choice one, everyone wins. Choice two, everyone leaves vertical after the cops show up. Choice three, neither one of you wants choice three.
Most of the time they will pick choice one. I can't imagine anyone not high on PCP choosing number three.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #81)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 12:18 PM

83. No problem with any of that

but I don't see why one needs to exclude the tea and crumpets once things have calmed down.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #83)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 12:47 PM

86. some Earl Grey while waiting for the cops

does seem like a nice gesture.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #31)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 04:26 PM

35. I think the answer is to make the public aware of what is really going on.

Start with Zimmerman as poster boy for the gun culture.

It's just like cigarettes. The majority used to smoke, and it was allowed everywhere. But campaigns against smoking have changed opinions. Now a lot of smokers hide their habit, and it is prohibited in lots of places. I like to see guns viewed the same way, especially in public.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #35)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 06:54 PM

50. I think it's starting to happen. Hopefully.

The pendulum can only swing so far to the right. It may still take a while, but sanity and reason will eventually prevail.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #35)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:12 PM

54. Zimmerman is not the poster boy for anything

Not the gun culture or anything else. He might be the poster boy for something a couple of years from now. It might be how not to act while carrying (most likely) or he might join Richard Jewel as poster boys for being convicted by the media while innocent in court, not that he is going to walk. He is not going to get a fair trial, guilty or not. Even if he does, vigilante lynch mobs will be lining up at his door thanks to Rosie Barr and Spike Lee.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #54)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:22 PM

59. You're right - Zimmerman is a law-abiding gun carrier

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #59)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:33 PM

64. I didn't say he was

I said the corporate media will make shit up for sales.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #35)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 12:20 PM

84. You really believe he's the average gun owner, don't you? n/t

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #31)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:23 PM

60. Allow me...

"Only 6% say there should be no or very few restrictions on gun ownership."

The other half here are the 6% - I guess that means I'm with the 94%!

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #60)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:30 PM

62. I doubt that means much to the Egyptian swimming team. LOL

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Response to Johnny Rico (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 04:53 PM

36. Frightening, especially living in Florida now

I am being honest. I fear the George Zimmerman's of this state, and I have seen many like him living here. I get away from them as fast as I can.

The NRA, and states that promote their culture, are only creating more of them. I am an old white woman, yet even I am not safe. Imagine being young and black?

NRA = Macho Men Society. I can somewhat rationalize the Castle Doctrine because your guns will only harm those in your own home, but these SRG laws put innocent people at risk. I do not feel safe with my husband's guns all around the house, not locked up, etc. It is a mindset and culture brainwashing. I should not feel like this in my old age.

This is what I feel like living in "gun friendly" Florida.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #36)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 06:01 PM

40. What exactly is a "George Zimmerman?"

How do we know it when we see it? Does it have a native habitat?
Is it bad news to stick your finger in its cloaca?

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Response to Callisto32 (Reply #40)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 06:25 PM

42. Redneck Macho Men

who not only like to beat up teenage blacks, but females too. Look at Zimmerman's arrest record. Any female who agress with them, is just an Enabler.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #42)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 06:28 PM

43. so why hasn't he been convicted of

domestic violence?

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #43)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 06:46 PM

46. She dropped the charges

Enablers. Actually BOTH of them did. Domestic Violence and the Assault (Bar Incident).

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #46)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:06 PM

51. I'm a strong believer in

due process. Given that we know that NBC faked the 911 tapes, I have to ask if that is true. CNN is not that much better than Faux. Name one liberal or centrist on CNN besides Larry King.
You do realize that if the DV victim pressed charges and got him convicted, Zimmerman would be facing felony possession charges (assuming the US attorney and the local ATF doesn't have their heads up their asses.)

I am not a big fan of trial by media. You live here, you know how the media convicted Casey Anthony even though the DA could not even show cause of death, time of death, a crime was committed, let alone mom committed it.
During the Clinton witch hunt, my first sgt. mentioned that he was on the Chicago Seven jury. He was amazed how the facts in the court room did not match what the media reported.

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Response to Callisto32 (Reply #40)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 06:48 PM

48. What is a "George Zimmerman"? Easy question.

A knucklehead who thinks, by carrying a loaded gun around, he is doing the right thing. It's native habitat is the 14 or so states that promote and nurture these paranoid wingnuts.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #36)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 07:13 PM

55. Do you have x-ray vision?

Let's suppose that you and I were in the same store in Florida. You would have absolutely no idea that I was carrying a concealed firearm. You probably wouldn't even notice me and if you did you might just see an overweight old fart with a bad limp. If we did have a reason to talk for a minute, you would find me polite and respectful.

Is it possible that you have formed the opinion that all people with concealed weapons are just like your husband? If so, I would question if your husband or his friends are truly representative of all who have carry permits in Florida.

I belong to the NRA and have for over 40 years. This organization does a lot of good for the shooting sports and also provides training for children, hunters, civilians and police. I do not donate to the NRA-ILA which is the political wing of the NRA and very little of my NRA membership fee goes to support this organization.

To be fair, I think that if you spend a minute you will realize that your statement "NRA = Macho Men Society" is at the best stereotyping. You are painting with a very broad brush. The NRA has 4 million members and while a few might fit your description, the majority (from my experience) do not. (I could be wrong and you might consider anyone who would use deadly force to stop an attack that would result in serious injury or death to himself or others as a Macho Man and a person who would merely passively submit to his attacker or watch despite having the ability to intervene as a rational man.)

If I am attacked on the street or in a place outside of my home where I have a legal right to be, why should I be required to retreat before I can use deadly force to stop an attack by a person who intends serious harm or to kill?
I don't put anyone's life at risk unless they attack me with such intentions. If I first feel that I am required to retreat in some situations it might offer my attacker a significant advantage. That doesn't mean that I can't retreat if I wish and the "Stand Your Ground" law also doesn't allow me to chase and confront another person and then shoot them if I feel "threatened."

Be very careful of anything the news media says about laws such as Castle Doctrine or Stand Your Ground. Many in the media have an agenda and are not willing to let truth interfere with their goals. It is possible that the Florida Stand Your Ground law should be reworded but to suggest that it gives a license for someone to start a fight with another person and kill them is false.

But I will agree with you that anyone who owns a firearm and lives with a significant other is wise to secure his/her firearms.

Arguments happen and even a couple of seconds to get a gun from a lock box might stop a tragedy. Also firearms can be very effective if a person wishes to commit suicide. If they have to open a lock box, there is a chance that the time required might allow them to reconsider.



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Response to Johnny Rico (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 06:46 PM

47. Be kinda dumb not supporting the right to use deadly force to save yourself and family.

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Response to ileus (Reply #47)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 06:50 PM

49. Correct. As an absolute last resort.

Which is not what SYG is about.

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Response to Johnny Rico (Original post)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 11:16 AM

75. I'm for gun rights, but the NRA sucks

People keep urging me to rejoin NRA, people say I'm letting the cause down if I don't, people repost NRA scare tactics... Thing is, NRA isn't even about guns. It's essentially a GOP organ that uses gun issues to frighten the easily-propagandized. Basically, the idea is to tell Americans that "THE DEMMYCRATS ARE COMIN' FER YER GUNS! DONATE NOW!" and just wait for the cash to flood in. Then they tell us that "OBAMA WANTS TO BAN SINGLE-SHOT .22S!" and pray that we'll all scream and run around with chickens with our dicks cut off, and pull the lever for Romney or whoever their GOP friend is. Their real efforts to protect our civil rights are lackluster, and only now are they getting humiliated by SAF and the state groups. Hell, I got a nice letter from NRA the other day begging me to start giving them money for nothing again, and it said "NRA is the ONLY grass-roots organization fighting for your right to keep and bear arms."

Here's my reply to that particular lie:

"Please stop sending me renewal requests. I let my membership lapse for a reason, and I am not interested in being lied to by your organization. Your latest plea for cash states that:

"NRA is the ONLY grass-roots organization fighting for your right to keep and bear arms."

This is a dirty lie, and I think even less of your organization for trying to sell it to me. NRA is neither grass-roots, nor is it fighting for our rights in Maryland.

Maryland Shall Issue is grass-roots, and NRA has specifically informed us that " does not work with grass-roots organizations."

The Second Amendment Foundation is fighting for our rights, and NRA is only recently joining the lawsuit scene to avoid humiliation.

NRA is nothing but a top-heavy GOP organ designed to use Second Amendment issues to frighten voters into handing over money.

I've received numerous alerts from Maryland Shall Issue informing me of bad legislation and upcoming committee hearings, of the status of the Woollard case and how to help, of demonstrations and events I could (and have) participated in, etc.

I've read the docket in Woollard v. Maryland, and the efforts and victories of the Second Amendment Foundation are significant and public. They directly impact Marylanders and advance gun rights for the Americans NRA can't be bothered to fight for.

NRA just wants money.

You're ants, and you're going to be swept away by TRUE grass-roots groups committed to more than depositing checks.

Again, stop sending me mail."

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