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Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:18 PM

Pity the Poor Gun Lobby

By GAIL COLLINS
Published: March 21, 2012

There is nothing so dangerous as a lobbying organization that’s running out of stuff to lobby about.

I am thinking in particular of the National Rifle Association. These people are really in desperate straits. The state legislatures are almost all in session, but some of them have already pushed the gun-owner-rights issue about as far as it can go. You can only legalize carrying a concealed weapon in church once.

This year, in search of new worlds to conquer — or at least to arm — a couple of states are giving serious attention to bills that would allow gun owners to carry their concealed weapons in places like day-care centers and school buses.

People, do you think there is a loud public outcry for more guns on school buses? I truly believe that this is all the product of a desperate N.R.A., trying to show its base that there are still lots of new battles to be won.

More: New York Times Column

94 replies, 9825 views

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Arrow 94 replies Author Time Post
Reply Pity the Poor Gun Lobby (Original post)
ellisonz Mar 2012 OP
rl6214 Mar 2012 #1
Clames Mar 2012 #2
ellisonz Mar 2012 #8
Clames Mar 2012 #11
ellisonz Mar 2012 #12
fightthegoodfightnow Mar 2012 #30
rl6214 Mar 2012 #37
Clames Mar 2012 #41
fightthegoodfightnow Mar 2012 #42
eqfan592 Mar 2012 #14
ellisonz Mar 2012 #18
Clames Mar 2012 #19
ellisonz Mar 2012 #49
ileus Mar 2012 #44
fightthegoodfightnow Mar 2012 #48
eqfan592 Mar 2012 #65
fightthegoodfightnow Mar 2012 #74
rl6214 Mar 2012 #36
ellisonz Mar 2012 #3
Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #4
Dr_Scholl Mar 2012 #6
ileus Mar 2012 #45
NewMoonTherian Mar 2012 #55
Pullo Mar 2012 #66
gejohnston Mar 2012 #5
Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2012 #7
eqfan592 Mar 2012 #15
krispos42 Mar 2012 #27
discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2012 #29
krispos42 Mar 2012 #34
fightthegoodfightnow Mar 2012 #40
pneutin Mar 2012 #35
Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2012 #53
X_Digger Mar 2012 #57
pneutin Mar 2012 #59
X_Digger Mar 2012 #60
Remmah2 Mar 2012 #9
shadowrider Mar 2012 #10
Remmah2 Mar 2012 #20
fightthegoodfightnow Mar 2012 #31
Callisto32 Mar 2012 #61
fightthegoodfightnow Mar 2012 #73
oneshooter Mar 2012 #64
shadowrider Mar 2012 #67
villager Mar 2012 #13
eqfan592 Mar 2012 #17
villager Mar 2012 #26
eqfan592 Mar 2012 #54
villager Mar 2012 #58
fightthegoodfightnow Mar 2012 #32
Callisto32 Mar 2012 #62
Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #16
msongs Mar 2012 #21
shadowrider Mar 2012 #22
eqfan592 Mar 2012 #23
rl6214 Mar 2012 #38
Surya Gayatri Mar 2012 #25
Surya Gayatri Mar 2012 #24
krispos42 Mar 2012 #28
Clames Mar 2012 #39
ellisonz Mar 2012 #50
Clames Mar 2012 #51
Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #75
gejohnston Mar 2012 #76
Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #77
gejohnston Mar 2012 #78
Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #79
ellisonz Mar 2012 #80
gejohnston Mar 2012 #82
ellisonz Mar 2012 #84
gejohnston Mar 2012 #89
ellisonz Mar 2012 #90
Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #92
ellisonz Mar 2012 #93
Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #94
Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #86
Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #85
ellisonz Mar 2012 #87
Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #91
fightthegoodfightnow Mar 2012 #46
ellisonz Mar 2012 #52
DonP Mar 2012 #69
ellisonz Mar 2012 #72
ellisonz Mar 2012 #71
jpak Mar 2012 #33
ileus Mar 2012 #43
fightthegoodfightnow Mar 2012 #47
Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #56
ellisonz Mar 2012 #81
gejohnston Mar 2012 #83
ellisonz Mar 2012 #88
GreenStormCloud Mar 2012 #63
shadowrider Mar 2012 #68
jeepnstein Mar 2012 #70

Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:25 PM

1. And?????????

 

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Response to rl6214 (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:31 PM

2. You expected more?

 

I know I didn't from the OP. MAIG, Brady Campaign, and LCAV are all more dangerous than the NRA and by orders of magnitude.

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Response to Clames (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:49 PM

8. Would you care to expand on your rant...

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:58 PM

11. Nope.

 

Pretty self explanatory if you read your own OP.

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Response to Clames (Reply #11)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:03 PM

12. Finally...

*silence*

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Response to Clames (Reply #11)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:10 PM

30. What a SILLY Response

Anything substantive to say?

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #30)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:40 PM

37. A little more than the OP

 

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #30)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:01 PM

41. And you?

 

Anything at all? Nope, didn't think so...

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Response to Clames (Reply #41)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:24 PM

42. SURE

ARTICLE IS EXCELLENT.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:07 PM

14. Lets see...

...those are all organizations that have all been proven time and time again to be dishonest when it comes to a key civil liberties issue, have a lot of resources, and garner a lot of media attention.

I'd say that makes them very dangerous.

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Response to eqfan592 (Reply #14)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:10 PM

18. And I'd say...

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #18)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:21 PM

19. Here's another...

 

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Response to Clames (Reply #19)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:52 PM

49. Good thing she's not on the Neighborhood Watch!

Oh wait, Zimmerman wasn't either...

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #18)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:31 PM

44. wonder what loopholes the artist believes exists.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #18)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:41 PM

48. Too funny..

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #48)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:08 PM

65. Funny only in its irrelevance as a reply to my post.

Which only served as acknowledgement that I was accurate in my statement (which I was, with our without this acknowledgement).

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Response to eqfan592 (Reply #65)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 09:40 PM

74. Of course you were

...but then you would know how right you are unlike anyone else.

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Response to Clames (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:39 PM

36. I would hope for more.

 

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Response to rl6214 (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:33 PM

3. What????????

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:39 PM

4. Let's get rid of the '86 ban on new manufacture of machine guns for civilians.

 

Then we can speak of resting on our laurels...!

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Response to Johnny Rico (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:42 PM

6. Now we're talking.

 

I'd love to see the MG ban disappear. It failed the floor vote anyway and shouldn't be law.

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Response to Johnny Rico (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:32 PM

45. +1

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Response to Johnny Rico (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:48 PM

55. That, and college campus carry...

are pretty much at the top of my list, as far as gun law is concerned.

Now, there's still concealed carry and open carry that need to be expanded. Stand-your-ground law is still not widespread enough either.

And don't forget, now that we have reestablished these rights, there's still the task of protecting them. That's going to be a permanent job. It would be nice if the NRA had nothing left to do, but that's not likely to ever be the case.

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Response to Johnny Rico (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:13 PM

66. ^This

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:40 PM

5. within two months two things are going to happen

Zimmerman will be going to jail, the DTR supporters will be make to look like shrill lunatics, because the law did not work as they feared.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:42 PM

7. ^^^^this^^^^

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:08 PM

15. You hit the nail right on the head. (nt)

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:06 PM

27. What does "DTR" stand for? n/t

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #27)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:08 PM

29. Duty to retreat :)

Or data terminal ready for you old RS-232 fans.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #29)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:35 PM

34. Oh, duh

I'll be in the corner facepalming myself...

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #34)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:56 PM

40. No need.

the NRA needs your support too much to ding you.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:36 PM

35. I'm going to have to disagree

Based on all the physical evidence that I have seen reported so far, here are my predictions and conclusions:

1. George Zimmerman is a foolish wannabe cop who made critically poor decisions.
2. If there is new evidence that suggests beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman initiated the physical contact and did not withdraw from it, then he will at most be convicted of manslaughter under Florida law. Murder is too far of a stretch.
3. If there is not new evidence that suggests Zimmerman initiated the physical contact, then he will at most have his CCW revoked for being a dumbass.
4. Stand Your Ground law will not change.

You have to wonder, with the media shitstorm that this incident has generated, what does Sanford PD have to gain by not arresting Zimmerman? They have everything to gain by finding any shred of evidence that would garner any sort of criminal conviction. District attorneys love padding their conviction rate. But, alas, no charges have been filed yet. And to the ire of many people on this very forum, people in this country are innocent until proven guilty.

How about we all take a deep breath and let the complete facts come out. If you were accused of a crime, would you want a subset of the facts regurgitated by the media to decide your fate?

Edit: Sorry I didn't mean to direct this at you. It's just some general thoughts I've had for a while and didn't know where else to post it.

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Response to pneutin (Reply #35)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:03 PM

53. this too, sounds like a good possiblity of a logical conclusion.

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Response to pneutin (Reply #35)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:07 AM

57. One thought about 'why not arrest'..

If Sanford arrested quickly after the pressure was turned up, folks would ask, "Why did it take national attention to get you to arrest him? What were you planning to do had there been no pressure?" -- they'd be busted for being the racist assholes that their previous history suggests they are.

So they have to either double down, and stubbornly keep asserting their hands are tied, even as more damning evidence is made public, or should a piece of evidence that's new to them turn up, they'll shout, "Aha, this is just what we were waiting for! See, you shouldn't have doubted us!" -- and arrest / charge Zimmerman.

At this point, I think they're trying to save face. Even today's press conference / 'temporary step-down' was a non-apology apology- (paraphrasing), "I'm going to step aside because attention on me is taking away from the investigation.."

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #57)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 03:06 AM

59. Maybe...

...but I think the "temporary step down" is more of an attempt to quell all the race-baiting, by putting the African American city manager Norton Bonaparte in charge of the police department. I hope Bonaparte is ready for all the Uncle Tom accusations.

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Response to pneutin (Reply #59)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 03:14 AM

60. I hadn't considered it from that angle. Could be. n/t

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:51 PM

9. But what if it has the opposite effect?

 

Attacking and abusing pro2A people who are your average citizen may just piss them off and galvanize them.

Emotion provoking emotion.

It'd be an awful unintended consequence that we don't want to see come November.

The tide goes both ways.

(I wonder how many armed guards are in the lobby of the NY times, right there in NYC?)

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Response to Remmah2 (Reply #9)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:53 PM

10. Unpossible. The NYTimes hates guns and wouldn't have them anywhere around

unless of course, it was for their safety which they want to deny the little people.

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Response to shadowrider (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:23 PM

20. I figure Bloomburg's personal bodyguards moonlight there. nt

 

nt

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Response to shadowrider (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:11 PM

31. Safety?

Read the paper much?

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Response to Callisto32 (Reply #61)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 09:38 PM

73. What did you find?

Just what I thought.

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Response to shadowrider (Reply #10)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:02 PM

64. You mean like in 1864 when they mounted 2 Gatling Guns on the

roof of their building? To protect themselves from the Irish immigrants in the anti-draft riots. The unfair draft that they supported?

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/317749.html

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas




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Response to oneshooter (Reply #64)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:43 PM

67. Heh. Yea, kinda like that.

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:06 PM

13. Once they got everything they wanted, in terms of gun prevalence, only their festering

...psychoses and paranoia were left with which to form "policy..."

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Response to villager (Reply #13)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:09 PM

17. Thank you...

...for exposing your bigotry.

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Response to eqfan592 (Reply #17)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 04:12 PM

26. Thank you.....

...for exposing your reflexive defense of all things NRA!

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Response to villager (Reply #26)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:11 PM

54. I'm not a member of the NRA...

...and you made no mention of the NRA in your post, and in fact appeared to be attacking a larger group.

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Response to eqfan592 (Reply #54)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:13 AM

58. The OP states, pretty clearly, that it's talking about the NRA.

Ergo, posts replying to it - like mine -- are also referring to the NRA.

Glad to hear you're not a member of National Republicans' Auxiliary, however...

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Response to villager (Reply #13)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:12 PM

32. Amen




.

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Response to villager (Reply #13)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:17 AM

62. To a man still clawing at the cavern walls, the light does seem crazy, nay?

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:08 PM

16. Ah yes! As the pendulum swings.

Maybe they still have a ways to go yet. Guns in cribs? Guns in hospitals? Guns in prisons? That should pretty much cover it.
What will the gun industry think of to keep sales up when everyone has a gun for every occasion? Oh, yeah! Disposable guns.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #16)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:25 PM

21. 5 year olds have a right to open carry at schools, not banned in 2A ya know nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #21)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:27 PM

22. And the ridiculous get more riduculouser

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Response to shadowrider (Reply #22)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:46 PM

23. You hit the nail on the head. (nt)

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Response to shadowrider (Reply #22)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:45 PM

38. Only the anti-gun zealots express something like that.

 

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Response to msongs (Reply #21)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:53 PM

25. Sadly, they too often do just that (with tragic results)...

when they find one of the big boy toys lying around the house.

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #16)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:50 PM

24. How about high-fashion designer guns,

reinterpreted by the great fashion houses, color-keyed to match your outfit and mood--with the top models packin' right out there on the cat walk!

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Response to Surya Gayatri (Reply #24)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:08 PM

28. The Gucci Glock?

Diamonds and rubies in the iron sights, gold-plated slide, alligator-skinned grip, fancy engraving on everything remotely flat?

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Response to Surya Gayatri (Reply #24)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:52 PM

39. Like this?

 




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Response to Clames (Reply #39)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:53 PM

50. That'd even make Muammar Gaddafi blush!

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #50)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:59 PM

51. Not likely.

 

Because being dead and all makes that a little difficult.

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Response to Clames (Reply #39)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 09:44 PM

75. That's just...wrong.

 

I normally give a lot of leeway when it comes to someone's taste in firearms, but that crosses the line.

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Response to Johnny Rico (Reply #75)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:13 PM

76. I take it you won't be getting one of these?

?t=1192758453


That is nothing compared to a local class 3 that has been trying to unload a lavender finished Colt SMG for the past five years.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #76)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:34 PM

77. Kalashnikitty!

 

I take it you won't be getting one of these?

Um....no.

That is nothing compared to a local class 3 that has been trying to unload a lavender finished Colt SMG for the past five years.

Please tell me that it was a modern M16-based SMG, and not a Colt-made Thompson submachinegun. The thought of a classic Tommygun being ruined like that... (shudder)

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Response to Johnny Rico (Reply #77)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:44 PM

78. It is the modern one

in 9mm. Still sitting in his vault for $11K if you are interested.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #78)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:06 PM

79. Nah...if I was going to spend that kind of money, for $8K I could get a full-auto MP40!

 



So much cooler than a lavender Colt 9mm SMG!

That reminds me...a German company called ATI is going to be importing .22 LR versions of the MP-40 and the MP-44 for around $600 or so apiece. Pretty nifty! They'll have to do something with the barrel on the MP-40, though, to make it at least 16" long; probably attach some silly anachronistic flash suppressor to it or lengthen the barrel.



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Response to Johnny Rico (Reply #79)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:23 PM

80. Like those Nazi guns eh...

Oh wait, you're a historical collector right

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #80)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:31 PM

82. since you are implying that he has

a picture of Hitler above his bed or of being a Nazi,

What is your diagnosis of this (Canadian) collector?
http://members.shaw.ca/tju/jhg.htm

Does she have a picture of Tojo over hers?

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #82)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:50 PM

84. She's an academic.

But she too is taking it to the point of unhealthy obsession over weapons. Why so fascinated by the instruments of death? I'd have to read her work, but it's all kinda creepy to me as an academic who doesn't have an obsession with weapons.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #84)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:10 AM

89. she teaches business, not history

or is it that only 1 percenters that can afford to fly to London in their private jets an buy Holland & Hollands or James Purdeys the only people who should own guns? (when Brady et al say "sportsman", it is code for rich people in tweeds.)

to answer your question:
history, engineering, and (sometimes) art rolled into one. One of my high school Lit teachers once observed "most civilizations put most of their artistic efforts in two things, their churches and their guns."

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #89)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:14 AM

90. So she's just another gun fetishist...

Or just an unhealthy obsession with the instruments of death

In an ideal world, we'd melt all of the guns down into plowshares and then y'all would have to twiddle your thumbs.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #90)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:42 AM

92. Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not.

 

(falsely attributed to Thomas Jefferson, BTW)

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Response to Johnny Rico (Reply #92)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 04:46 AM

93. So basically that little cliche is made up by gun nuts? n/t

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #93)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 09:09 AM

94. What would cause you to come to that conclusion?

 

That a quote can't be attributed to a specific person isn't evidence that any particular group, no matter how negatively you wish to characterize them (i.e., "gun nuts") came up with it.

In any case, it's more of a military truism than anything else.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #82)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:54 PM

86. Excellent website, and bookmarked.

 

Puts my collection of Japanese handguns to shame. All I have is a Type 26 revolver, a small trigger guard Type 14, and a Type 94.

The Type 14 & 94 are both quite early and in excellent condition, though.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #80)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:51 PM

85. Nazi-marked guns bring a premium...sure. So what?

 

The simple fact is, they had really cool guns. Japanese issue military guns can also be quite valuable.

Just for the record, I would estimate that roughly 5% of the guns in my collection are Nazi-marked as such.

Again...so what?

I also have about a dozen military helmets, one of which is German issue. Oh, the horror!

Let's see, what else...I have about a bunch of military issue flare guns, 2 of which are (insert ominous music) Nazi-marked!

You'll have to excuse me, upon reflection this is so upsetting. I may faint...

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Response to Johnny Rico (Reply #85)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:55 PM

87. Nazi guns aren't cool. Neither is fetishizing their history...

Do you do the Prince Harry act and don the uniform for fun too?

Fuck the Nazis, butchering fucks.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #87)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:29 AM

91. Fine...you don't think guns are neat. I do.

 

Neither is fetishizing their history...

Who's doing that? I like to collect weapons and other military gear, but it's not as if I focus on Nazi issue equipment to the exclusion of everything else. I have weapons from over 25 countries in my collection.

Do you do the Prince Harry act and don the uniform for fun too?

Nah. Do you have any idea how much original Nazi uniforms cost?

In any case, I've never been into the reenactment scene.*

Fuck the Nazis, butchering fucks.

We already did, for which I'm quite glad. Now that we've done so, what's wrong with trading around the stuff that we took from them after we beat them like a rug? Spoils of war, and all that...



*I just looked at the Wikipedia article on historical reenactment. Apparently, there are three broad categories of reenactors:

1) Farbs. "Farbs" or "polyester soldiers", are reenactors who spend relatively little of their time or money maintaining authenticity with regard to uniforms, accessories, or even period behavior. A 'Good Enough' attitude is pervasive among farbs, although even casual observers may be able to point out flaws. Anachronistic clothing, fabrics, fasteners (such as velcro), snoods, footwear, vehicles, and modern cigarettes are common issues.

2) Mainstream. Mainstream reenactors make an effort at appearing authentic, but may come out of character in the absence of an audience. Visible stitches are likely to be sewn in a period-correct manner, but hidden stitches and undergarments may not be period-appropriate. Food consumed before an audience is likely to be generally appropriate to the period, but it may not be seasonally and locally appropriate. Modern items are sometimes used "after hours" or in a hidden fashion. The common attitude is to put on a good show, but that accuracy need only go as far as others can see.

3) Progressive. At the other extreme from farbs are "hard-core authentics", or "progressives," as they prefer to be called. Sometimes derisively called "stitch counters", "authenticity nazis" or even "stitch nazis", many people have misconceptions about hardcore reenactors.

Hard-core reenactors generally value thorough research, and sometimes deride mainstream reenactors for perpetuating inaccurate "reenactorisms". They generally seek an "immersive" reenacting experience, trying to live, as much as possible, as someone of the period might have. This includes eating seasonally and regionally appropriate food, sewing inside seams and undergarments in a period-appropriate manner, and staying in character throughout an event. The desire for an immersive experience often leads hard-core reenactors to smaller events, or to setting up separate camps at larger events.


Isn't that interesting?

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #16)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:39 PM

46. EXACTLY

The gun lobby won't be satisfied until you can go into a post office, a court, a school, a hospital, a prison, a bar, the DMV, an airplane, a private home, a nursery, and a host of other areas to pound their chests and over compensate for their own insecurities all to 'stand their ground' against what they perceive to be a threat.

Yea, it's time to bring some sanity before we all lose our ground.

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Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #46)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:01 PM

52. In other news...

France just had it's first school shooting ever.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #52)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:40 PM

69. Well, the "first" if you overlook all the genocidal murders of children in Hebrew schools in WWII

But I forgot, those dead children don't count as "school shootings" I guess, after all they were state sanctioned.

Gun control people that hold up Europe and other countries as "safe" places with better gun laws tend to ignore the many millions killed by state officials in pogroms, the holocaust and other "lesser" ethnic cleansing incidents like the ones that led up to WWI and in turn fueled WWII.

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Response to DonP (Reply #69)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:01 PM

72. If I add the caution "modern"...

...you don't get to politicize the Holocaust as an over-the-top argument against sensible gun control. Oh I forget, without your ridiculous caches of guns that you ought to be allowed to carry everywhere you will be reduced to slavery, the horror, the horror!

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #52)


Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:20 PM

33. GOP/NRA/ALEC = flaming over-reaching douchebags

yup

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:24 PM

43. It's too bad Karl Rove isn't involved...

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Response to ileus (Reply #43)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:40 PM

47. Tried and True Tactic

Bring up anything other than guns.

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Response to ileus (Reply #43)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:00 PM

56. He one of your heroes?

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Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #56)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:24 PM

81. *crickets*

Must be his hero

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #81)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:32 PM

83. or

found it so disgusting and absurd that it he or she would not dignify it with an answer.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #83)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:57 PM

88. or

he's got some sympathy for KKKarl

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 09:26 AM

63. There is still much territory yet to gain.

Illinois is still has no CCW provision. Some other states and cities have CCW on the books but will not issue a permit. New Jersey has a ban on hollow-point ammunition. Some states still have AWBs. Lots and lots of ground yet to go.

Even after all of that has been won they will be able to stay busy defending those gains against people such as the author of the piece, Ms. Gail Collins who states what she wants:

"I am thinking that the best solution for all concerned would be a strict national gun-control law that makes it very difficult to get a concealed weapons permit, permits gun dealers to sell only one handgun per individual per year, and makes it illegal for even permit holders to keep handguns anywhere but their home, store or car glove compartment unless they are employed in the security business."

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #63)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:44 PM

68. Whew. At least she doesn't want a ban. Or would that come after she got everything else?

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Response to ellisonz (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:43 PM

70. So you're conceding defeat?

That's nice.

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