The real reason concealed carry is so hated by gun control advocates...

[virginia mountainman]

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20151103/gage-park/armed-customer-who-killed-robber-called-angel-from-heaven

Quote the boy's mother and store owner:

“All I know is that someone came in here threatening my sons, and this angel used a gun he was allowed to carry, and he saved them,” Cabrales said.

From the owner of a store two doors away:

“I don’t believe in vigilante justice, but I don’t know what would have happened if that guy hadn’t been there,” Guzman said. “I mean, the same thing could just as easily have happened to my store.”

From a shop owner down the block, who was robbed a month ago:

“I do trust the police, but lately I really haven’t felt safe here,” Vidales said. “I never like violence, but in [this] case, I think he did the right thing. I’m glad he was there.

And from another nearby business owner:

“Seeing that happen right on this block makes me think I’d feel much better if I were armed, and if my customers were armed,” Cruz said. “Now I want to get a concealed carry permit myself.”

This is what armed self defence is intended for, folks to be empowered to protect themselves, and loved ones. Stories like this, complete devastate the narrative of the gun control advocate, it is stories like this, that keep gun control advocates sequestered away behind locked forums scared to face the public at large, because there slavish dogma simply cannot compete in the reality of the real world:

Armed self defence WORKS.

[DonP]

1. I guess nobody told the customer that Hispanics don't want to carry guns

Weren't there a rash of posts recently, about how gun ownership was just going to die out with all the old white men?

AA and Hispanics weren't interested in gun ownership and saw it as a bad thing?

I guess the memo didn't reach Gage Park yet.

[spin]

13. I live in Florida, the Gunshine State. I know a good number of Hispanics and blacks ...

who own firearms and several have a Florida concealed weapons permit.

I also know a good number of women who own firearms. Many own handguns for self defense and some have a license to carry.

Gun control advocates often live in gun unfriendly cities and states where gun ownership is somewhat uncommon. They usually don't know many people who actually own and use firearms. It's easy to form misconceptions about firearms and those who own them when you live in such an environment.

[msongs]

2. gun owners protecting themselves from gun owners. no guns, no need nt

[krispos42]

4. I've noticed that seems to be your plan.

Removed all privately-owned guns, then simply say that since no criminals have guns, then there is no need for non-criminals to own guns either.


And of course, when criminals have a lot of guns, then non-criminals can't have guns so we can dry up the supply of guns going to criminals.

[LonePirate]

8. I wish the gundamentalists would help society distringuish intentions among gun owners

Many gun crimes like these start with the weapon being concealed. Makes it kind of difficult to differentiate between those with good intentions and those with bad intentions. However, if all guns were illegal, you could safely assume a gun carrier's intentions were bad because we all know every single gun advocate respects and obeys the law, right?

[GGJohn]

9. Gundamentalists?

And you wonder why you and your ilk aren't trusted by firearm owners?
How about a post with out the name calling?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

10. Applying logic...

However, if all guns were illegal, you could safely assume a gun carrier's intentions were bad...

...and being disarmed, you could be sure of 2 things:
1- You're about to be a victim
2- Bringing a can of beans to a gunfight will just piss off your assailant and likely get you killed

[ileus]

15. Because we all know criminals only use guns.

[NutellaBear]

29. Concealed carry is scary?

I think you'd find that gun owners would be perfectly happy to do away with concealed carry laws. It would mean that they could open carry! Concealed carry was only ever implemented to allow the general public go blithely along -- see no evil kind of thing.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

14. If only we could find a way to...

...make the criminals obey the law then...

...wait...

...they are called criminals for a reason.

[upaloopa]

26. Seems to me a lot of these "criminals"

were law abiding citizens until they committed a crime. It isn't like Bonnie and Clyde days. There are gangs sure but it's not like criminals running around with guns committing multiple crimes and getting away with them.
That criminals and their guns argument is stale I think.

[NutellaBear]

30. I think bad guys would be fine with that too!

Do you really think that doing away with guns would stop the threat of violent crime? Handguns in the hands of criminals are ultimately a terror weapon. I think you need to look at crime in Great Britain as it exists today. Most violent crime is committed with knives in Great Britain. Does that make you feel more comfortable? A knife actually is more likely to kill you than a gun shot from a handgun. It is simply a question of the amount of damage that can be caused by a bullet vs. a knife. The only advantage a gun has is stand off range. Another example are the knife attacks in Israel (please no Israeli <--> Palestinian craziness needed here!)

Here is why you should like a licensed CCW holder and why they don't compare to a run of the mill criminal with a gun. A licensed CCW holder will typically train obsessively because first, they enjoy shooting and second, because they want to ensure they are competent and safe gun owners. A CCW license holder will go to a range and practice, easily throwing 500 rounds down the range in one session.

Your typical criminal will get a gun, not train, and in essence run up to victims going oogieboogieboo! If a nasty person runs up to Gladys and shakes a gun at her she will scream; if he starts jabbing the air with a nice 8" Chefs knife, Gladys will be deeply concerned but not terrified.

Small comfort if you are shot, but getting stabbed is actually a lot more dangerous. Without hitting a critical structure in the body (a very narrow range in a whole body, something a CCW licensee trains to do) your biggest risk in either a gunshot from a handgun or a knife attack is exsanguination. A knife will cause more basic damage to the circulatory system, simple as that.

[GGJohn]

5. Wrong.

Firearm owners protecting themselves from thugs with firearms.

[Lizzie Poppet]

12. No guns, and I'm essentially defenseless against someone I can't outrun.

An attacker doesn't need a gun to be a deadly threat to me. I'm quite small, and even if I had the time and inclination to pursue martial arts, I'd probably never be able to prevail against the statistically-probable (that is, young, relatively fit male) attacker. I simply don't have anywhere near the size and strength, regardless of training. I'm fit (serious cyclist...), but nothing special as a sprinter, and if I get run down in the first 50 meters, my greater endurance is useless.

What do you propose I do, carry a whistle? Can of beans? Positive thoughts?

[flamin lib]

17. Funny but I know a 13 year old girl who can break four ribs with a single kick.

I wouldn't want to try to actually touch her if she didn't want me to. And she doesn't have to fumble with whatever method of carry you prefer to do it. And it can't be taken away from you and used against you.

If you're all that frightened I suggest American Black Belt Academy.

Besides it's a life long fitness program and the Master at this school is in his late 60s and can stand on one foot in the side kick position for many minutes.

[beevul]

19. Martial arts...

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here...


Didn't some martial arts come into existence as an answer to weapons being taken away from a populace?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

24. That would be karate...

...which means open hand.

I have a high regard for martial arts and have trained in both Shotokan and, later, Ninpo.

I have no respect whatever for those who seek to disarm the lawful so that the small percentage of those who have an abject and phobic fear of firearms may feel some odd purity from the spread of some vague and false sense of security.

A long time ago I read this:

I began my training in the martial arts over 25 years ago and I have been practicing Bujinkan Ninpo Taijutsu for over 16 years. I hold a Godan or Fifth Degree black belt in this art. The particular art that I practice has a direct lineage spanning over 900 years from the current Soke, Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi to its founding in ancient Japan. The creators of this art were inhabitants of the Iga region of Japan and the families that founded the art did so as a means to protect the members of their family, their friends, and their village from the oppression of the ruling Samurai class. The art includes components of unarmed fighting, called Taijutsu, as well as work with a variety of weapons. The sword normally associated with this tradition, the ninja-to, is a crude version of the katana used by the Samurai class since the Samurai class forbade the ownership of swords by anyone outside of their class. This seems to be the common, yet very effective, tactic of every ruling elite in the world. I find that the experiences of my "Ninpo" ancestors mirror the experiences of many people around the world today.

I certainly do not fit the stereotype of the gun owner that is held by Sarah Brady and others who wish to take gun ownership away from law-abiding Americans. I hold a Ph.D. in Human and Organizational Systems. I am a Human Resources manager for a major pharmaceutical company. I am a Shidoshi or teacher of the ways of Ninpo. I am a Buddhist. When I was in my late teens and early twenties I was an anti-war activist protesting America's involvement in Viet Nam. I am a Golden Eagle member of the NRA and a supporter of the Second Amendment Sisters. I don't hunt and I loathe the idea of killing any living thing. I am an avid target shooter and a believer in self-defense. I am able to hold many of these seemingly contradictory ideas and concepts together because I find that they arise from a common core of ideals and beliefs. This is the core of personal responsibility and caring that is embodied in the enlightened warrior.

Dr. Hatsumi was once asked to describe the essence of Ninpo and he replied that it was sitting on the porch of one's home and watching one's grandchildren play in the yard. That statement certainly doesn't seem to describe an art that is commonly portrayed as an assassin's art or at minimum a warrior tradition. Yet, it is the perfect statement to embody this and most martial arts. It is also the essence of why I am an owner of firearms. In Ninpo, as in Buddhism, one begins to change the world by first changing oneself. When I recognize the cause of suffering in my life and I follow the way to eliminate that suffering, I have taken the first step. However, I quickly discover that in order for me to be happy, I must help create a safe and happy environment for my wife and family. Then, I discover that in order for my family to be safe and happy I must work to ensure that my neighborhood is safe and happy. But in order to ensure that my neighborhood is safe and happy, I must work to ensure that my town is safe. This process of reasoning continues until I realize that the entire universe is connected and that my safety and happiness is inextricably intertwined with that of the other residents of the universe. Therefore, if I want to be able to peacefully sit on my porch and watch my grandchildren play I must ensure a safe world in which that may occur.

Many of my pacifist friends would argue at this point that I have made an excellent case for the total ban of weapons since that must surely be the best way to ensure the safety of the world. This is not the case. I recognize that when an individual decides to perpetrate a violent act upon others, he or she stops for only three reasons:

1. The person unilaterally decides to stop the violence.

2. The person becomes too tired or is otherwise unable to continue the violence.

3. Something or someone more powerful than that person intervenes to stop the violence.

As we have seen from Hitler to Stalin to Pol Pot to the minor league maniacs of Columbine, waiting for the person to decide to stop the violence comes at a very high price in human life. I train in the martial arts to know how to intervene to stop the violence of others. I have trained for a quarter of a century in various martial arts, yet I would trade all of that training for the appropriate firearm if my family were threatened. This is because the ability to accurately and effectively use a firearm is a force multiplier that far exceeds any amount of training in the martial arts. It is the means by which my 115-pound wife can stop the violence of a 250-pound criminal who is bent on committing mayhem. This is why the martial art that I practice trains in the use of weapons including training in the use of firearms.

The Japanese Samurai were quick to adopt the use of firearms after they were introduced by the Portuguese in feudal Japan. Though the Samurai never abandoned the use of the sword, they saw the value that the firearm presented. More importantly for self-defense, the firearm, unlike the sword or my martial arts training, may be used to subdue an aggressor without the need to harm him or her in any way. This fact is well documented by Dr. Lott in his research that emphasizes the numerous cases of the defensive use of a firearm without a shot being fired. The most gentle martial arts technique would still entail touching the aggressor and applying some degree of pain to subdue him. I think that when Colt named their original six-shooter the "Peacemaker," they were right on target. A gun can bring peace to a situation without the need for actual violence.

I train in the martial arts for the same reasons that I shoot targets. I find the techniques that I learn enable me to better ensure the safety of my loved ones while also developing an internal discipline that allows me to better focus my intention when needed. I know and respect the power of the firearm as I know and respect the abilities of a well-trained martial artist. I believe that my knowledge of both firearms and the martial arts enable me to be a more peaceful and loving human being. I am no longer plagued by the fear of what harm others might do since I believe that I have the knowledge and tools to handle most situations. Consequently, I have no need to present an aggressive front to the world in an attempt to scare others away. Instead, I have the freedom to seek to understand the other's viewpoint in a loving and accepting manner. I believe that every martial artist should be familiar and comfortable with a firearm and I also believe that every firearm owner would find tremendous benefit in the discipline and pursuit of a complete martial art. It is fine and admirable to turn the other cheek when one is struck, but it is a betrayal of the universal community to stand-by and watch someone strike the cheek of an innocent. As members of this community, we must be willing to step forward and stop the hand of violence when it is raised. For some, the ability to take this action occurs as the result of years of dedicated training in a martial art, while for others it can occur because of a few days practice at the firing line. In either case, we must be prepared to be the enlightened warriors that the universe demands.

[Lizzie Poppet]

20. While I don't consider hand-to-hand martial arts a substitute...

...it's definitely a good thing for people with the right combination of physical ability and mindset to learn. I've never trained in any hand-to-hand combat form, but I have gotten some instruction in breaking holds and weapon retention. I'm not sure how much that would help against someone bigger and stronger than I am (statistically highly likely: I'm small and the statistically-probable attacker is a young-ish, reasonably fit male with a violent record). And in situations where the attacker has the element of surprise, martial arts (or my sidearm) probably won't help. But it's definitely better than no training at all.

I've thought about jujitsu or judo training (probably the former, as I have no interest in competition). My workouts tend to be really leg-oriented (former bike racer and still a pretty serious cyclist...), but not much for my spindly little chicken-wing arms. A leverage-oriented style would seem to make the most sense for me, as even with additional strength training, I'm never going to pack a big punch.

[flamin lib]

22. Well, as I said elsewhere in this thread

statically your are much more in danger of being assaulted by someone who calls you Honey. Meaning that the vast majority of violence against women cases involve intimate partners or close associates.

Have you seen that the SCOTUS will hear an appeal from two domestic abusers who want to get their gun rights back? I call it the 'Bitch wouldn't shut up' defense.

[Lizzie Poppet]

25. Hoping the SCOTUS does the right thing on that one.

I'm a "one strike and you're out" advocate on 2nd Amendment rights: commit a violent crime, you're done owning weapons, period.

[Kang Colby]

3. Come on now, owning a gun makes it 9000 times

more likely that you'll be a victim of gun violence. You didn't know that? It's quoted in a study performed by the Bloomberg School of Public Fraud....

Or, as Glock says, sometimes they pick the wrong girl.

[gejohnston]

6. did you catch what she was watching on TV?

[Kang Colby]

7. Yup, my wife spotted that the first time we saw those videos.

We are a Glock household.

[flamin lib]

18. Only thing is that the vast majority of women who are victims of rape or

violence are assaulted by someone who calls them Honey.

Nice fantasy video tho.

[Lizzie Poppet]

21. Yep: it's about 80/20 acquaintance vs stranger in the case of rape.

Not that this remotely means that I wouldn't use force against an acquaintance who tried to rape me, but it certainly reduces the likelihood of doing so successfully (because it increases the probability of being caught unawares).

[flamin lib]

23. And if they know you they know you have a gun and possibly where it is giving them

even more advantage.

[ileus]

11. They don't like CC because it takes you out of the easy victim pool.

And without victims their power is eroded.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

16. "is stories like this, that keep gun control advocates sequestered away behind locked forums"

Self-sequestered, would be more accurate.

[HassleCat]

27. Well, yeah

We need to arm ourselves because there are so many violent, armed people out there who want to kill us. Of course, the 2nd Amendment guarantees them access to firearms, so we can't let down our guard. Because there are so many guns out there pointed at us, we have to point back.

[friendly_iconoclast]

28. Better get your argument under cover or the straw will get moldy...