Garrison Keillor on "Interventionist versus Laissez Faire" approaches to threat management.

[NYC_SKP]

I think the dynamic applies to the battle over gun control legislation, but also to other questions about where responsibilities rest.

I was listening to the Prairie Home Companion on Sunday and Garrison Keillor told a tale about a woman, Irene Bunsen, who was gardening when a bear came along, so the rangers were called.

The rangers said that they could come tranquilize the bear and then take it miles away but it would cost $1,350. But who would pay the cost?

The story goes on to discuss the two sides of the matter of what to do: The Interventionist versus the Laissez Faire approaches.

--- The Interventionists say "But what if there was a child, is a child not worth $1,350?".

--- The Laissez Faire people say, "Teach your children to watch where they're going. The world is full of bears."

Garrison noted that both sides are right, it's not often that you get an argument like that where you get two sides that are absolutely right yet disagree completely.

It's a short piece and really worth the few minutes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/apm-prairie-home-companions/id215352157?mt=2

In case it's not self-evident, the analogy here is that some on the left would look to laws and government to be responsible for preventing calamity, to prevent irresponsibility, to "ensure" safety, while others among us prefer the notions of self-determination, responsibility, access to the tools to take care of ourselves, and training our children and family members to be aware and to be safe.

Well, neither side is completely wrong (except to any extent to which we insist the other side is completely wrong); the solutions probably exist in the universe that treats BOTH sides as valid arguments.

Most of us who support the Second Amendment also support UBCs and strict penalties for misuse and violent used of firearms, and most on the gun control side see a place for education and awareness and grant that some ownership rights are beneficial.

In any event, I really loved the piece on radio and hope you'll all take a listen to it. I'm sorry I couldn't find a written transcript.

And remember:

The world is full of bears.

[Peacetrain]

1. Guns are not my thing on any level..

I get physically ill seeing people tote them around because they are so afraid of the "other".. Love your op.. two sides to all stories.. and yes the world is full of bears..

True story this.. we had a local sheriff in a small Iowa community insist that all its citizens carry guns in 1999.. so fearful of the turning of the century and how all civilization would fall apart.. (Y2K craziness)

[NYC_SKP]

2. I remember people becoming unglued during the Rodney King riots.

Last edited Wed Oct 1, 2014, 05:27 PM - Edit history (1)

Way up here in Northern California, and indeed there were some street protests and crime, but nothing to warrant what some were suggesting needed to be done.

BTW, I originally referenced the "bear" story in a reply to a post asking if it was time to shut down Frats due to incidents of rape.

Interesting discussion: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1138&pid=4865

And I think the Keillor tale is instructive, and I hope to find the transcript and invoke the story when appropriate.

[Jenoch]

3. I wonder if the garden was near Lake Wobegon, Minnesota?

If so, what 'ranger' is this lady calling? If she was in Minnsota, we don't have 'rangers' and if a MNDNR CO was called, he would tell you to leave the bear alone, go inside, and the bear would be on his way without bothering anyone.

I lived in Duluth, Minnesota when the King riots occurred. Two months after the LA riots and looting, there was a train derailment with tanker cars that released toxic gas that was heading towards Duluth. More than 100,000 people had to evacuate. It was done in an orderly fashion and there were no riots. I drove through downtown Duluth after the evacuation. It was a ghost town. There was zero looting. Imagine that. "Minnesota Nice" may be passive aggressive, but in some ways it's a real thing.

[NYC_SKP]

4. Play the podcast, it will probably explain who exactly she called.

I had to reply it myself to get the language right, maybe it was state police she called.

The point of the story remains the same.

[Jenoch]

5. You're right.

I should have listened to the audio before replying. My point was that at first thought, an analogy about bears doesn't really make Keillor's point, as far as I could tell from your initial post. Of course, my attitude is probably based (biased?) on the fact that I have run into Keillor three times and he was an asshole each time.


Edit: I went to iTunes on my phone and do not know which datee podcast to download. What dated podcast do I get?

[NYC_SKP]

6. The lastest podcast, September 27, 2014. It's a good listen.

I once looked into tickets when I knew they were coming though.

The prices were outrageous, over $100, IIRC.

Screw that. I'd rather attend Wait Wait Don't Tell Me shows.

[Jenoch]

7. Thanks.

I'll give it a listen. I used to work with Tim Russell who does a lot of characters on PHC.

[NYC_SKP]

8. She called Gary and Leroy, the town Marshals, who said they were aware of the Black Bear...

... and they said they had called DNR, who in turn said they could send a man with a tranquilizer gun.

I think marshals and the DNR are consistent with Minnesota, and I got it wrong calling them rangers.

[Jenoch]

9. The only marshals in Minnesota are federal marshals

and they would not be involved in a black bear incident. Also, the DNR in Minnesota does not tranqilize nusance bears. I guess I am bothered by the fact-based errors of this skit.

The whole tranquelizing animals thing is based on Marlin Perkins and is not a viable solution in the real world. If a bear gets too close to a populated area and does not leave on their own, it is put down. Relocating just is not cost effective. The narcotics used for tranquelizing animals is highly regulated under lock and key and is not readily available in a quick response time. The other problem is dosage and transportation. Besides that, we have 20,000 black bears in Minnesota.

[gejohnston]

10. In Wyoming, WFG relocates black

and Grizzlies. IIRC, Maine does too.
WFG had to relocate a couple of moose wandering around my town. Some asshole poached a deer while grazing on the lawn of an office building. He was charged with no license, out of season, wasting the meat (just left it), oh and RSPD got him for firing in city limits without a good reason.

[Eleanors38]

11. I believe liberals get into trouble by excessive reliance on government

to solve "problems" when self-reliance could more efficiently deal with them. I'm kind of an old-line liberal lefty who believes government has the constitutional authority to assure decent health care, housing, food and education for ALL Americans, as well as provide for a clean environment. But many Americans see government as a palliative to service their own ignorance, popular beliefs and fears. In the case of the bear allegory, the complainer knew little of bear behavior, probably failed to educate her kids about interaction with animals in rural settings, and labored under an illusion that the problem could be solved the way she saw fit, all with a phone call.

It's not either this or that. Government has the power to secure basic needs and is charged with defending individual rights. But it is not there to construct a fairyland of comfort zones, or to protect sentimental feelings.

Get outside. Of everything.