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liberal N proud

(60,300 posts)
Mon Aug 25, 2014, 10:31 AM Aug 2014

Man killed in road rage shooting


This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by DonViejo (a host of the General Discussion forum).
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Man killed in road rage shooting in Colerain Township

COLERAIN TOWNSHIP, OH (FOX19) -
Colerain Police believe it started here somewhere along Colerain Avenue. 20-year-old Anthony Griffin had some type of altercation with another driver 26-year-old Jeremy Hardman.

Police say Hardman then followed Griffin to his girlfriend's home in the 3200 block of Niagara Avenue.

Mike Harris says he watched it all happen right here in his front yard. His sister's boyfriend, the father of her unborn son, Anthony Griffin shot and killed by a stranger.

"Over something so freaking stupid. I was just trying to get everyone to calm down. Tried to just deescalate it. No one really thought that would happen," said Harris.

Harris says Griffin pulled up to his house just before 1 a.m. Griffin's two sisters were in the car and an angry driver was hot on his heels.

"Evidently, the guy had pulled up. They had words. Then, he turned around and came back and they had words again and on and on it seemed to go. Nobody wanted to let it go," said James Love, Public Information Officer for the Colerain Police Department.

That is when Love says 26-year-old Jeremy Hardman pulled a gun and shot Griffin from his car. Right now, police say there are no indications the two knew each other and no indications of any crime.
http://www.fox19.com/story/26355918/man-arrested-in-fatal-road-rage-shooting-in-colerain-township

Defend that gun nutters. This is exactly what I am afraid of every time I get in the car, some gun nutjob gets upset because he thought I looked at him the wrong way or didn't let him cut me off on the freeway.
55 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Man killed in road rage shooting (Original Post) liberal N proud Aug 2014 OP
"NO INDICATIONS OF ANY CRIME"????? He KILLED a man!!! loudsue Aug 2014 #1
SARCASM ON the new repug rules are that it is not murder if a gun is used samsingh Aug 2014 #39
It wasn't the gun and it wasn't the bullet that killed Anthony Griffin. NYC_SKP Aug 2014 #2
That NRA line is so old and makes no sense. liberal N proud Aug 2014 #6
So, put the gun on trial if it wasn't Hardeman. Eleanors38 Aug 2014 #8
The OP never said that the GUN KILLED liberal N proud Aug 2014 #10
So this DU group Duckhunter935 Aug 2014 #17
All prior experience applied. liberal N proud Aug 2014 #18
very true fact indeed Duckhunter935 Aug 2014 #19
The dynamic is the same as in societal instances of inequity IMO: majority privilege... NYC_SKP Aug 2014 #40
This reminds me of an incident during the punk rock days... Eleanors38 Aug 2014 #25
if he didn't have a gun he could not have murdered the man with a gun samsingh Aug 2014 #28
No doubt that weapons on hand make it more likely that they'll be used. NYC_SKP Aug 2014 #34
he could have - but i think it less likely. samsingh Aug 2014 #37
And they wonder why we call them gun nuts... mikeysnot Aug 2014 #3
For the sake of gender equity, are there "gun muffs?" Eleanors38 Aug 2014 #26
it's very clear why samsingh Aug 2014 #38
we have a news account and gejohnston Aug 2014 #4
Hardman then followed Griffin to his girlfriend's home liberal N proud Aug 2014 #5
I don't know gejohnston Aug 2014 #9
road rage samsingh Aug 2014 #29
and an idiot feeling that a gun made him invulnerable and inspired him to shoot an innocent man samsingh Aug 2014 #30
Why do you "live in fear?" I don't. Eleanors38 Aug 2014 #7
It's kind of sad, actually friendly_iconoclast Aug 2014 #11
Wouldn't have brought it up, but the fear thing... Eleanors38 Aug 2014 #24
maybe you are emotionally balanced samsingh Aug 2014 #31
Another good example of why I never drive without my PPD. ileus Aug 2014 #12
Yep - more guns that't the answer. liberal N proud Aug 2014 #13
Not more just a different one. ileus Aug 2014 #14
Sadly, for your tired and predictable response concealed carry permit holders pablo_marmol Aug 2014 #23
you should get bullet proof windows and body armour while you are at it samsingh Aug 2014 #32
That would ruin my gas mileage. ileus Aug 2014 #45
A couple months back a person started road raging on me sarisataka Aug 2014 #15
Do you recall the movie In Broad Daylight? liberal N proud Aug 2014 #16
Did not see that sarisataka Aug 2014 #21
It's not a bad movie, IronGate Aug 2014 #27
so you had a confrontation - i wonder what you would have done if he had just shot his gun samsingh Aug 2014 #35
First off sarisataka Aug 2014 #42
being shot at so matter of factly demonstrates a problem with society samsingh Aug 2014 #47
Ummmm, look at his avatar. IronGate Aug 2014 #49
that's a good point samsingh Aug 2014 #50
Thank you. IronGate Aug 2014 #51
Thank you and you too! samsingh Aug 2014 #55
CCW permit holder? acalix Aug 2014 #20
"Defend that gun nutters." Well, I'll be more than happy to. pablo_marmol Aug 2014 #22
You don't get that if the other driver didn't upaloopa Aug 2014 #33
that's the tragic spiral with guns - and a self fulfilling prophecy. samsingh Aug 2014 #36
Wow. Straw Man Aug 2014 #41
What does wow mean? upaloopa Aug 2014 #43
That's rich coming from you Lurks Often Aug 2014 #44
I think it's pretty clear. Straw Man Aug 2014 #46
What part of *blind* in the descriptor *blind hatred* are they missing?! pablo_marmol Aug 2014 #48
It just doesn't get any more squirelly than this. beevul Aug 2014 #53
I am not blaming the victim exboyfil Aug 2014 #52
"Defend that gun nutters." beevul Aug 2014 #54

samsingh

(17,571 posts)
39. SARCASM ON the new repug rules are that it is not murder if a gun is used
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:49 AM
Aug 2014

and you claim to be scared.

100% foolproof if the victim is black.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
2. It wasn't the gun and it wasn't the bullet that killed Anthony Griffin.
Mon Aug 25, 2014, 10:38 AM
Aug 2014

What killed him was Jeremy Hardman.

If you blame the gun, it's like letting the killer off the hook.

The dude could have chosen to mow down Griffin with his car or done any number of other violent things to him.

liberal N proud

(60,300 posts)
10. The OP never said that the GUN KILLED
Mon Aug 25, 2014, 12:32 PM
Aug 2014

It said Hardeman killed with a gun!

This is what is wrong with the gun nut forum, you can't have an honest debate without the NRA illogical talking points being thrown around.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
17. So this DU group
Mon Aug 25, 2014, 08:44 PM
Aug 2014

is the "gun nut" forum. Nice to be able to have a civil conversation with a person who starts with that nice polite dialog.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
19. very true fact indeed
Mon Aug 25, 2014, 09:49 PM
Aug 2014

but the incivility you mention more often is on the anti-RKBA side on the issue.

I find it very hard to be polite and have a civil discussion in this group or even GD when being called names, being labeled as a future murderer, blood on my hands, child killer and of course never forget about the juvenile references to the penis.

I do find it hard indeed to have a nice civil discussion when that is happening.

At least this group allows people with opposing views to post, but unfortunately not in the most polite and civil way.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
40. The dynamic is the same as in societal instances of inequity IMO: majority privilege...
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:57 AM
Aug 2014

Which just kills me, the irony, the lack of tolerance.

As the progressive online community is mostly against gun rights, the anti-gun group has strength and safety in numbers.

The juries that rule one way or another are, therefore, more likely to allow insults from that POV, directed toward even the most civil speaker if that speaker is supportive of gun ownership rights.

It's a very natural human dynamic and it happens everywhere humans interact.

Personally, I'm glad to be on the side that doesn't take joy in using insults.

We offer more solutions, workable solutions, and we often reach out to find common ground but it's more often than not met with derision and contempt.



 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
25. This reminds me of an incident during the punk rock days...
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:12 AM
Aug 2014

in Austin. I think the Dead Kennedys were playing the Ritz, and there was a huge pile up in the mosh pit; scores wallowing on the floor in sweat, B.O., torn shirts, spilled beer, and someone brightly inquires: "Who farted?"

samsingh

(17,571 posts)
28. if he didn't have a gun he could not have murdered the man with a gun
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:42 AM
Aug 2014

something else perhaps, or perhaps he would have had time to cool down.

at some point, after many many deaths, maybe people will understand that the availability of a weapon in a hostile situation increases the odds of a tragic outcome.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
34. No doubt that weapons on hand make it more likely that they'll be used.
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:46 AM
Aug 2014

People, literally, carry around short baseball bats, knives, and other crazy shit just waiting for an excuse to use it.

I submit that this nut might just as well as mowed down his victims with his car, there's no telling.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
4. we have a news account and
Mon Aug 25, 2014, 10:50 AM
Aug 2014

one side of the story, and no evidence, and no investigation of possible motives. I seriously doubt it had anything to do with road rage.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
9. I don't know
Mon Aug 25, 2014, 11:14 AM
Aug 2014

but one sided media accounts without the details from the investigation are rarely if ever accurate. The truth won't come out for another year at least, if at all.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
11. It's kind of sad, actually
Mon Aug 25, 2014, 12:54 PM
Aug 2014

Not to say that road rage doesn't happen, but the OP would be better served by
"fearing" impaired/incompetent drivers wielding an assault Honda, as they are
far more likely to cause harm than some random git with a firearm...

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
24. Wouldn't have brought it up, but the fear thing...
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:01 AM
Aug 2014

Day in and day out for years I have been told I "live in fear" because I have guns. Then this jazz about road rage. Heavens.

ileus

(15,396 posts)
12. Another good example of why I never drive without my PPD.
Mon Aug 25, 2014, 02:28 PM
Aug 2014

I refuse to be a willing victim.


I'm currently researching how to make my 45 my car gun. Problem being it's so large I'm having trouble concealing it and keeping it close by in case of emergency.

This seems like a really good reason to buy one of the new budget Ruger 9E (or is it E9???) for 350 bucks you get 15+ rounds of 9mm on hand, reliable accurate service, and you're not out a bunch of cash if some pillhead steals it.

ileus

(15,396 posts)
14. Not more just a different one.
Mon Aug 25, 2014, 02:56 PM
Aug 2014

I currently EDC a LCP. I'm thinking of changing it out for my SR45.

Safety first I always say.

pablo_marmol

(2,375 posts)
23. Sadly, for your tired and predictable response concealed carry permit holders
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 03:14 AM
Aug 2014

DO NOT misuse their firearms. Check Texas and Florida stats -- that would be all of the proof any person with integrity would need.

samsingh

(17,571 posts)
32. you should get bullet proof windows and body armour while you are at it
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:45 AM
Aug 2014

great way to smell the open air in the land of the free

sarisataka

(18,215 posts)
15. A couple months back a person started road raging on me
Mon Aug 25, 2014, 03:02 PM
Aug 2014

to this day I don't know why. Still in between the charging, swerving, braking and flipping off I was receiving I calmly reached near my waist where I had my .38 holstered and...












drew my cell phone, immediately triggering 911. A turn onto a highway allowed the state patrol to identify the vehicle and record the reckless actions on the traffic cameras. My description matched the registered owner of the vehicle so I never even had to go to court.

One thing however, I would never to go my or any other person's house when being followed. Drive around and find a cop or at least busy area.

I never once worried the other person had a gun. A moving target is very hard to hit.

liberal N proud

(60,300 posts)
16. Do you recall the movie In Broad Daylight?
Mon Aug 25, 2014, 08:01 PM
Aug 2014

It was about a town bully and how the town eventually took him out.

Well I lived in the county seat in the county where that story took place in reality. My wife's grandparents lived in the town. I was chased 13 miles by that bully once and I knew he had a gun and I did not. To this day, I suspect every asshole on the road as a potential gun slinger.

Thinking otherwise in this gun slinging country is stupid and could be deadly.


sarisataka

(18,215 posts)
21. Did not see that
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 12:37 AM
Aug 2014

but I will check it out.

I go out not expecting everyone to have a gun because I know only a very small fraction of people carry a firearm. I also go about my business avoiding conflict as much as a person can do. If conflict occurs I then work to de-escalate and resolve the conflict peacefully. I do this not because I an fearful but because it is the correct thing to do.

Now I could handle conflict by whipping it out and shooting someone but despite accusations, I have no desire to kill anyone. My gun is the last resort. The closest I have come to that point was an attempted robbery but I managed to convince the robber to leave without displaying, or even letting him become aware of my being armed.

samsingh

(17,571 posts)
35. so you had a confrontation - i wonder what you would have done if he had just shot his gun
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:46 AM
Aug 2014

without any warning.

and if he was a decent shot.

sarisataka

(18,215 posts)
42. First off
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 02:02 PM
Aug 2014

the driver was a she.

She did get out of her car and start to approach me. If a gun was involved I would have done the same thing, drive off; perhaps a little faster. Seated in a vehicle puts me at a serious tactical disadvantage. Also, SYG or not ( MN is not an SYG state) retreat is most often the best response to an armed threat.

Worst case, she would have shot and killed me. Not the first time I would have been shot at , though it would be a first time to be killed. I have come to understand the Zen attitude on mortality. I will not let fear of death limit me living my life.

samsingh

(17,571 posts)
47. being shot at so matter of factly demonstrates a problem with society
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 11:21 AM
Aug 2014

agree on the zen attitude though

 

IronGate

(2,186 posts)
49. Ummmm, look at his avatar.
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 11:29 AM
Aug 2014

It's the Marine Globe and Anchor, which means that by being shot at, he probably means in combat, same as I was shot at.

 

IronGate

(2,186 posts)
51. Thank you.
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 12:31 AM
Aug 2014

I know we've had our differences, sometime heated, but that doesn't mean I don't respect your opinions, disagree sometimes, but still respect.

You have a very good night and a very good Labor Day weekend.

pablo_marmol

(2,375 posts)
22. "Defend that gun nutters." Well, I'll be more than happy to.
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 03:10 AM
Aug 2014

This is exactly what I am afraid of every time I get in the car.......

No one is responsible for dealing with your irrational fear but you. The incident you cited is rare -- the chances that you'd not only be in the vicinity of the hothead in the story, and then behave in a manner that would add fuel to his fire are likely NIL. You are, after all, a calm and composed individual.....yes?

Then of course there is the fact that for every incident such as this, a gun prevents violence from being inflicted upon someone else. But of course you won't even bother to research defensive gun use, given your blind hatred of guns.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
33. You don't get that if the other driver didn't
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:46 AM
Aug 2014

have a gun he could not shoot you. It is all the paradigm you look through. Yours has guns as a given. Most people see life without guns or the need for them. And blind hatred of guns is a good thing not a negative in the paradigms of most people. That is because they see gun violence as a negative that can be prevented to some degree not taken as a collateral part of having freedom.

Straw Man

(6,613 posts)
41. Wow.
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 12:18 PM
Aug 2014
And blind hatred of guns is a good thing not a negative in the paradigms of most people.

Anybody who thinks that "blind hatred" is "a good thing" must be experiencing some serious cognitive dissonance. That might explain much of the hysteria.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
43. What does wow mean?
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 06:57 PM
Aug 2014

People can hate inanimate things. They do it all the time. But you leave that out with your wow bull shit!
Do gunners ever make a realistic statement or is everything just for effect?

 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
44. That's rich coming from you
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 07:04 PM
Aug 2014

"Do gunners ever make a realistic statement" Yes we do, far, far more often the you do with your fact free, emotional rants.

Straw Man

(6,613 posts)
46. I think it's pretty clear.
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 12:43 AM
Aug 2014

You used the phrase "blind hatred." How that could ever be construed as "a good thing" is mind-boggling to me. It's essentially a textbook definition of the word prejudice.

Yup. Cognitive dissonance fosters hysteria. I rest my case.

pablo_marmol

(2,375 posts)
48. What part of *blind* in the descriptor *blind hatred* are they missing?!
Sat Aug 30, 2014, 02:58 AM
Aug 2014

Oh wait.....never mind.

They're blind.
 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
53. It just doesn't get any more squirelly than this.
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 06:29 AM
Aug 2014

"And blind hatred of guns is a good thing not a negative in the paradigms of most people."

How do you reconcile this clearly-disconnected-from-reality opinion which you hold and have decided to share with us, with the fact that roughly 8 out of 10 Americans support the second amendment as an individual right?

http://www.angusreidglobal.com/polls/americans_agree_on_second_amendmentaas_meaning/

exboyfil

(17,857 posts)
52. I am not blaming the victim
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 03:33 AM
Aug 2014

If as it is described and he was shot down in cold blood, then Hardman needs to spend the rest of his life in prison (or until he is so old and gray as to no longer pose a threat and after demonstrating good behavior).

The takeaway for a driver is to never escalate a situation. In this case by getting into an argument. Just get indoors and call the cops (assuming you did not know this nut was following you, otherwise call 911, find a LEO, etc).

I used to have this gesturing and getting offended by another aggressive driver until being cut off by a group on an interstate where one threw an object at my car after cutting me off and me gesturing. I had my children in the car - at that point I realized I am going to keep my hands at 10 and 2, and look straight forward showing no emotion.

 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
54. "Defend that gun nutters."
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 06:34 AM
Aug 2014

Defend what?

Someone somewhere in a nation of 300 million people killed someone. Hes responsible for his actions, and the other 299,999,999 people aren't.

Take it up with the guy who did it, not that 299,999,999 of us who didn't.

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