A message to all the snub-nose revolver haters: You’re wrong

[Jgarrick]

http://www.guns.com/review/2014/04/15/snub-nosed-revolvers-dont-suck/



Even if modern tactical trainers often overlook them, the revolver is still a force to be reckoned with. The modern revolver is a versatile tool with unparalleled reliability, fool-proof operation and the ability to chamber the most powerful handgun rounds made.

One of the most suggested, though difficult to shoot concealed carry weapon, is the timeless Smith & Wesson J-frame revolver chambered in .38 Special. Most new shooters, after their first shooting session with the pocket six-gun, declare the trigger is junk in double-action and totally unusable. They console themselves by reasoning that it’s a “belly-gun” or “contact pistol” that needn’t hit anything past arm’s length. The issues with this reasoning are innumerable, but suffice it to say that the gun is very capable of making hits on human-sized targets at 100 yards. The guns limitations aren’t mechanical, they’re operator-related.

Shooting a snub-nosed revolver for speed and acceptable combat-accuracy involves delving into a lost, dark-art: shooting a revolver in double-action. The mere thought of having to pull a heavy, mile-long trigger with the reward of a palm-slamming kaboom is enough to send shivers up a rookie’s spine.

Let me be 100 percent frank. Shooting fire-ball, dinosaur-slaying loads through your snub-nosed carry piece is as much fun as a trip to the dentist. Concerning this, I have both good and bad news. The good news is, there are loads designed specifically for snub-nosed revolvers. The bad news is, all the crazy-powerful rounds you’ve been putting through your snub-buddy are effectively identical to reduced loads in terms of terminal ballistics. This is due to the short-barreled nature of those revolvers. The 2-inch barrel, common on many defensive revolvers, simply isn’t enough space for all the round’s powder to detonate internally. All that unburnt powder ignites outside the barrel, resulting in increased muzzle-blast and recoil, with no gain in velocity or power.

(excerpt, remainder of article at link)

[upaloopa]

1. I don't get why you don't post this at a gun site where

people go for this type of discussion.
Who gives a shit about snub nose gun nuttery?
If your intent is to make gun lore acceptable here I'll call it out when ever I can.

[Jgarrick]

4. From the Statement of Purpose for Gun Control & RKBA:

Discuss gun politics, gun control laws, the Second Amendment, the use of firearms for self-defense, and the use of firearms to commit crime and violence.

I don't get why you don't post this at a gun site where people go for this type of discussion.

Do you get it now that I've explained it to you?

Who gives a shit about snub nose gun nuttery?

Those who carry firearms for self-defense, and those who wish to do so. Is it your assertion that no such people post on this board?

If your intent is to make gun lore acceptable here I'll call it out when ever I can.

Everyone needs a hobby, I suppose. Now I can be yours!

[upaloopa]

7. No

Religion LGBT Feminism Mental Health issues and such are topics that involve life issues and seem to me appropriate here even if I don't usually join the discussions. But guns are very different.
Guns are a cause of hurt and death in our society. Nothing good will come of expanding the gun culture. Also it is pretty much a right wing issue.
I think guns have no place in a progressive discussion board.
Guns should never become main stream and gun violence should never become a non news event.
The growing gun culture along with the disappearance of the middle class and income inequality and the loss of the American dream for young people are major negative trends in our country.

[Jgarrick]

8. Then I suggest you try to change the SOP of this group...because as it stands, discussion

of firearms for self-defense is entirely on-topic, do you not agree?

[upaloopa]

10. Gun culture is a culture of death.

Of Black boys dying for wearing a hoodie or playing loud music or for walking down the street.
No good will come of excepting gun culture as main stream here or anywhere else.

[SQUEE]

13. Do you really believe the hyperbole you spout

I mean you come off as a caricature, and do more good for the NRA than my Local FFLs cash drives...
as long as you push that kind of childish and utterly simplistic drivel and propaganda... well, the deaths are piling up, and you are far more to blame than the guns in my safe.

[upaloopa]

18. It is truth period

[SQUEE]

20. the Religious Zealouts, so rightly mocked here and in American society

They fall back on the same argument.

I don't argue religion, and only pity those who are so sadly blind to what is truth, period.

tick-tock, tick-tock, some one else died, and you stand there doing nothing, accomplishing nothing, and blaming the metal and plastic in my safe.

[Jgarrick]

15. Would you care to answer the question, please? Are discussions of guns for self-defense on-topic

in this group, yes or no?

[upaloopa]

19. I am not concerned with this group as it stands alone and apart

from DU. My point is in context of this group and DU.

[Jgarrick]

21. And yet you post here. Would you answer the question, please?

Are discussions of guns for self-defense on-topic in this group, yes or no?

[upaloopa]

23. You read what my answer is

Put this group in a "guns and ammo" board and it is a perfect fit.
In my opinion this group should not be on a progressive board because it seeks to mainstream the gun culture and that is not a progressive value.
You can ban me from this group if you want

[Jgarrick]

26. You don't like the group. I get that. Would you answer the question, please?

Are discussions of guns for self-defense on-topic for this group, yes or no?

[upaloopa]

28. In my opinion yes but then I don't see what that has to do

With anything. Self defense is the justification for much of the gun culture but that brings along with it all the rest. You can't isolate self defense and not accept that it is only a part of the whole.
The quandary we are in is that self defense is an acceptable motive for owning guns but it is the seed that blooms into all the negative parts of the gun culture.
When you look at a gun you may see a tool for self defense but most of us see a gun that could potentially be used in an innocent person being injured or killed.
How to balance those competing ideas has been with us for my entire 68 years.
In the past there were restrictions based on the idea that guns are dangerous. Those restrictions have been undone by the gun lobby to the point we discuss snub nose pistols on a Democratic political discussion board. Basically what is happening is that gun manufacturer's interests have taken the front seat and the safety of society has been pushed out of the car. Nothing has changed in relation to why the restrictions were in existence in the first place. It is just that money has replaced common sense.

[Jgarrick]

35. Thank you for the direct answer. As to what it has to do with anything,

in your very first post on this thread you said, "I don't get why you don't post this at a gun site where people go for this type of discussion".

This subject, as you just agreed, is on-topic for this message board...at least in this section of it.

In the past there were restrictions based on the idea that guns are dangerous

And there still are. Too many, in my opinion.

Those restrictions have been undone by the gun lobby to the point we discuss snub nose pistols on a Democratic political discussion board.

They've been undone? Really? I wish...just to name a few at the national level:

1934 National Firearms Act, heavily restricting ownership of fully automatic and short-barreled weapons.

1968 Gun Control Act, restricting importation of "non-sporting" firearms and prohibiting purchase of firearms through the mail without an FFL.

1986 Firearms "Protection" Act, prohibitng the manufacture of new machine guns for civilian use.

1988 Undetectable Firearms Act, prohibiting the manufacture of any firearms with less than 3.7 oz of steel.

1990 Gun-Free School Zones Act, prohibits guns in school "zones".

1993 Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, which requires a background check when purchasing a firearm from someone with an FFL.

1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban, banning manufacture of "assault" weapons. Expired without being renewed, thankfully.

Counter-balancing this are a couple of things: the Supreme Court Heller decision, and, related to that, the increasing ability of citizens to carry concealed weapons across the United States.



I don't see how you can assert that gun laws have, overall, been relaxed over the last century when I could have ordered a machine gun through mail in 1933...which is hardly the case today!

As for this subject being discussed on this board...remind me, just how many specialized discussion areas are there on DU?

[upaloopa]

38. I knew you had a post all set up and ready

But my issue is with a gun forum on this board. There are so many gun sites to discuss various types of guns. But I will just have to use trash and ignore because the OPs will continue.
I am thinking of posting a lot of gun control articles though.

[gejohnston]

40. before you go, can we agree on this:

If a .38 revolver was good enough for First Lady Roosevelt when she was registering voters (when the Klan had a contract on her) not to mention most US cops, RCMP, and USAF police for most of the 20th century. There is no reason to think it would be not enough for any wrong place/wrong time situation.

Also, given Wyoming's sometimes near Arctic conditions, I'm less inclined to rely on a semi auto. Danish Marines on Sirus patrols in Greenland and Canadian Rangers use bolt actions instead of the regular issue ARs for a reason. (There are a couple of other reasons the Rangers use bolt actions, the the point remains.)

[spin]

52. if I had a job as a LEO, I would prefer to carry a semiautomatic pistol and perhaps a S&W ...

J-Frame revolver as a BUG (back up gun).

But I am merely a citizen. The chances of my ever having to use a firearm for legitimate self defense outside my home are extremely slim especially since I practice situational awareness and never go looking for trouble. If I am attacked, my S&W Model 642 will most likely be an adequate self defense weapon.

When I first got my carry permit, I tried to carry a full sized 1911 Colt .45 automatic pistol. I later bought a slightly more compact .40 Beretta Centurion. Both weapons were heavy and uncomfortable and were a pain to carry.

I finally bought the S&W Model 642. I found it to be an extremely light revolver that I could grab and drop into my pocket on my way out the door. I started to carry on a regular basis.

[gejohnston]

59. When my brothers were on the local PD

they carried K frame .357s on the job and J frame .38s off duty back in the day. Now that I spend enough time Home, I have my Wyoming residency back so I don't need a permit there. I'm less likely to need one here than in Florida. Like you, I stay out of the triangle of stupid, plus I'm either in Mayberry or in the woods at home. When I'm in Florida, Citrus County isn't exactly Chicago and I feel safe when my son and I go to industrial concerts in Ybor. Besides, the halls insist I leave my Leatherman in the car, let alone a Walther.

[SQUEE]

45. oh, the horror..

another antigun spam bot with no true interest in change.. however will the forum survive..

While you cut and paste, people are dying, you achieve nothing, and my guns still are in a safe, harming no one.. tick tock

[SQUEE]

27. No, it is not a perfect fit.

I surf a few "GUN BOARDS", mainly for the technical forums and for the want ad areas for parts and such, The views presented here are not even remotely in line with the rank and file there...
And here's a wake up call to you.. MANY of those on those boards are Union Members, solid Democratic voters for decades. the common man here in Tennessee sees you as a threat to his rights, and you and others like you are why this State has turned from Dem to Repub. Al Gore was once voted in to the Senate from this state, now, we have Corker... I can't thank you enough for that kind of shift, and you are preparing to go all in this election and give the fuckers the Senate too, because you are too blind, and bigoted and are letting a single issue come between me and you.

And the clock tick, and nothing gets done, and someone else died, and my guns didn't do it.

[upaloopa]

49. Sorry I don't buy that line of blame.

If wanting to reduce gun violence is the reason elections are lost it is because you and yours react scaring the shit out of people saying we want to take your guns away.
In all this you parade around like the injured party only wanting to protect your freedoms and that you have no roll to play in the outcomes of these battles. That
is complete horse shit!

[SQUEE]

50. You have no idea what i do to foster responsible ownership

But if i convince one person to buy a safe, or take a realistic course on weapons handling, well me AND my guns in the safe are responsible for more lives saved than all your lil dumps and dishonest finger pointing.

I have worked to help honest people with little knowledge become profecient and effective weapons users, you spout lies and blame me for "gun culture"?
I have saved lives, you have not... Yet you blame me for your lack of success, and your inability to reach real people here where I live.

tick tock, someone else is dead, and you still achieve nothing...

[spin]

56. You may not like to hear this but the gun control movement did start with an effort ...

to ban certain firearms.

Brady Campaign

***snip***

The Brady Campaign was founded in 1974 as the National Council to Control Handguns (NCCH). From 1980 through 2000 it operated under the name Handgun Control, Inc. (HCI). In 2001, it was renamed the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, and its sister project, the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, was renamed the Brady Center to Prevent Handgun Violence.

***snip***

In 1976, then chairman Nelson "Pete" Shields stated

We'll take one step at a time, and the first is necessarily – given the political realities – very modest. We'll have to start working again to strengthen the law, and then again to strengthen the next law and again and again. Our ultimate goal, total control of handguns, is going to take time. The first problem is to slow down production and sales. Next is to get registration. The final problem is to make possession of all handguns and ammunition (with a few exceptions) totally illegal."[15]...emphasis added

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_Campaign

I suspect that many in the gun control movement hope to eventually ban and confiscate most civilian owned firearms in our nation. For now they have given up trying to ban handguns and instead have targeted evil looking semiautomatic rifles which they claim are "assault rifles" useless for hunting, target shooting and self defense. If successful, the gun control movement will then focus on banning all semiautomatic firearms and then all handguns (which are the most common firearms used by criminals).

I feel that until the leadership of the gun control movement decides to give up on the goal of passing gun control laws similar to those in Great Britain and instead focuses on passing legislation that will help insure that only responsible, honest and sane citizens can purchase firearms, we will make little progress on this issue.

[NYC_SKP]

32. Respectfully, upaloopa. Guns aren't the only topic that offends DU members.

Some don't want to read about Hillary Clinton, others don't want to read about teabaggers, or mens' rights, or whatever.

But this site is NEVER going to eliminate interest groups, that's why this group is here, so that you don't have to see it.

That's why the site has features like "Trash Group" so that you don't need to see the forum, as well as "Ignore User" so you won't have to see posts by individuals.

Please use those features, or come to terms with the fact that other progressives don't share your POV about guns.

[upaloopa]

33. Believe me I use all the features

But again guns don't equal Hillary
I don't think Hillary in public will put fear in people's hearts like a guy with a gun in his belt does

Comparing Hillary to guns is a false equivalency .

[NYC_SKP]

34. No, guns don't equal Hillary but the point is still valid. Some people don't want to see either.

I couldn't think of a great example, but it really doesn't matter.

Now pointing out a flaw in my analysis is a distraction from the point I was trying to make.

And, if you're using all the features then how did you find this post?

BTW, you can try the trash by keyword feature, too.

~~~~

Full disclosure, I don't use any of the features so am not sure how effective they are. For example, if I trash guns will OPs still appear on "Latest Threads"?

I'll try it and get back to you.

ETA, there is a "Full Trash" option:

Full Trash
Selecting this option removes the forum or group's threads from the Latest page and the Greatest page and also removes the forum or group entirely from the the Forum & Groups page and from the navigation column on the left side of most pages.

So if you don't want to see threads from this forum, use that feature.

If instead you just want to try to get the group eliminated from DU, then you'll have to take it up with admins?

[upaloopa]

39. What I do is put posters on ignore if they post the same

shit day after day. An example is the privilege people. I am white I am 68 years old I don't need some 20 something telling me I don't know how white privilege has helped me keep minorities at a disadvantage. I lived during the civil rights era and understand privilege. I don't see those threads now if they still exist. There are a bunch if other one note johnnies and judys here that I have on ignore.

[NYC_SKP]

42. I agree with you on that one.

I'm ten years your junior, quite sensitive to the racism that still exists (and that I sincerely hoped would have passed by now), but I won't be told by strangers that the color of my skin absolutely prevents me from feeling compassion, or that I'm part of the problem.

I don't come here for those conversations, they become too dicey and personal and rarely seem to be productive.

Take care.

[upaloopa]

43. Many of us have a lot more in common than not

Just to be clear I don't support taking away guns.

[SQUEE]

11. And there are those who disagree with you.

your opinion is valid, but in the end, it is your opinion, and only that.

Many things cause hurt and death. There arte plenty of goods to ownership of guns, but you wont see that. And no not even close to being a RW issue, i am not a RWer, and I am an AVID shooter and collector.

Your fear and bigotry are sad side effects of your blindness to these simple facts.

[upaloopa]

17. What I say what you say is opinion.

We try to get others to agree with us.
The gun culture is maybe 10% of the American culture as a whole. It is supported by organizations like ALEC, the Tea Party and the NRA all self serving bodies that at their heart is the gun manufacturers. This 10% being supported by the gun lobby and manufacturers' money over powers the rest of society. We happen to have an amendment to our constitution that was recently misinterpreted by justices bought and paid for by the gun lobby.
Gunners have cognitive dissidence in saying their fetish is one supported by the American people when in reality if the foundation of gun manufacturer's money was pulled out from under you your world would crumble to dust.
All this foisted on the rest of us here and in the country as a whole.

[DonP]

16. "I think guns have no place in a progressive discussion board. "

Then by all means, go to the ATA forum and tell Skinner to close this "right wing" forum immediately. That's what the ATA is there for.

But for the record, you'll be about the 30th or so person in the last decade to insist that this forum has no business on his website.

That's why he gave your ilk "Castle Bansalot" to play in to your hearts content. But you all keep showing up here anyway. Funny that? I guess it gets lonely down yonder.

FWIW, You complaining predecessors haven't fared terribly well.

[sarisataka]

24. It is a sad statement...

I recall the debates about a second gun group. I supported it, though with trepidation, as there were some lofty goals stated.

Unfortunately my fears became realty. It is simply an echo chamber that spends more time celebrating playground bully victories than any discussion. The goals have long been forgotten.

This group is well over 10x more active. Even the one host of that group who posts has this one as his favorite groups with 59% of posts. (A source of never ending amusement when I see attempts to slander posters whose favorite group is RKBA at 1-2%)
That same host has posted 6 OPs in GCRA in the last month and 72 here.

If admin wants to remove a gun related group, which one should be dropped?

[friendly_iconoclast]

37. False-consensus effect is endemic within the ranks of the firearms averse

Thanks to DUer virginia mountainman for linking to this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consensus_effect

In psychology, the false-consensus effect or false-consensus bias is a cognitive bias whereby a person tends to overestimate the extent to which their beliefs or opinions are typical of those of others. There is a tendency for people to assume that their own opinions, beliefs, preferences, values, and habits are "normal" and that others also think the same way that they do.[1] This cognitive bias tends to lead to the perception of a consensus that does not exist, a "false consensus". This false consensus is significant because it increases self-esteem. The need to be "normal" and fit in with other people is underlined by a desire to conform and be liked by others in a social environment...

...The false-consensus effect is not necessarily restricted to cases where people believe that their values are shared by the majority. The false-consensus effect is also evidenced when people overestimate the extent to which their particular belief is correlated with the belief of others. Thus, fundamentalists do not necessarily believe that the majority of people share their views, but their estimates of the number of people who share their point of view will tend to exceed the actual number.

This bias is especially prevalent in group settings where one thinks the collective opinion of their own group matches that of the larger population. Since the members of a group reach a consensus and rarely encounter those who dispute it, they tend to believe that everybody thinks the same way.

Additionally, when confronted with evidence that a consensus does not exist, people often assume that those who do not agree with them are defective in some way.[2] There is no single cause for this cognitive bias; the availability heuristic, self-serving bias, and naïve realism have been suggested as at least partial underlying factors.

This nicely explains the claims that 'the tide is turning' and more restrictive gun laws
will be along Real Soon Now...

[MicaelS]

25. Then go start your own Progressive Discussion Board..

And you can set the the TOS. Amazing how many self-appointed Zampolits we have, and have had, here who "know" what should be discussed on a Progressive Discussion Board.

[geckosfeet]

53. Important info for the "why does anyone need a semi-automatic" pistol crowd.

[DonP]

2. Forgot the link N/T

[Jgarrick]

3. Corrected, thanks! n/t

[rrneck]

5. Wheel guns are safe and easy to use.

I had a Model 19 about a million years ago. The DA trigger was light and smooth and the SA broke at about three pounds or so. I wouldn't think it would take any more training to learn to use a DA action than it takes to fiddle with all the switches and doodads like decocking levers and wotnot on a semi auto.

It seems to me that the best thing to do is find one gun that works for you and stick with that design. I know exactly where everything is on a 1911 and operating it comes naturally. If I wanted to carry it the size might get in the way, but I am more likely to replace it with a smaller 1911 design or just deal with the size than switch designs.

[Jgarrick]

6. Have you checked out the Para Warthog micro 1911?

Not only is it the size of a snubby, but it has a double-column magazine holding 10 rounds of .45 ACP. Talk about your Noisy Cricket...!

[rrneck]

12. I read somewhere

that 1911's with less than 4" barrels had recoil spring problems but I've never tried one (and I'm no expert anyway). Looks like a handy little gun. I bet it's light too. I get tired of having pockets full of stuff as it is so a big honking hogleg would just add to the problem.

The executive looks pretty good too. Although it seems to me that the most difficult thing to conceal is not the barrel but the grip. One of the advantages of the wheel gun is its smooth contours and the executive seems like a nice step in that direction.

[DonP]

29. The 3 inch 1911's have had problems and may still

Even the higher end Kimbers had FTE and double feed issues with the 3 inch barrels and shortened springs.

I did a lot of research, and shot a lot of rentals, before I chose my 4 inch Kimber Pro TLE II over a 3 inch version of anything. And I really wanted the 3 inch guns to work and be easier for carry. (And it is the grip, not the barrel that makes it harder to hide).

I had a number of issues using rental 3 inch sub compact .45s. More than a few FTEs and FTFs for each box of 100 ball ammo. And a few double feeds out of maybe 400 to 500 rounds of ball I shot test driving them.

But I had zero issues with the 4 inch versions, Kimber, Springfield, S&W and even some "no name" gun made in the Phillipines for Gander Mountain. All shooting the same cheap ball ammo I used with the 3 inch guns.

Maybe it's the springs, or the bushing free designs on most of them, but reliability for this is number 1 for me. So the 4 inch model was my choice.

With a Cross Breed or Galco IWB it's not that heavy to carry or hard to conceal under a tucked in shirt or jacket.

Just my .02.

[rrneck]

31. Sound advice. nt

[Bazinga]

41. Yep, you know what they say, pull the trigger 19 times, it goes bang 11.

[ManiacJoe]

47. That would be like putting a brick in your pocket.

> Have you checked out the Para Warthog micro 1911?
> Not only is it the size of a snubby, but it has a double-column magazine holding
> 10 rounds of .45 ACP. Talk about your Noisy Cricket...!

The double-stack mag will make that very wide.
The short barrel does not help the slow round to start with.

[Jgarrick]

51. Maximum width of a Warthog: 1.30". S&W Model 642: 1.36".

The short barrel does not help the slow round to start with.

The same could be said of any carry pistol chambered for .45 ACP, .44 special, etc.

[DonP]

9. A little arthritis in my non-shooting hand put me onto snubbies

I shot a Colt Government Pocketlite .380 ('80s version of a mini 1911) and a Kimber Pro TLE in .45 ACP (4 inch) for years and they are still my occasional carry gun choices now.

But, when I get a tinge in my non-shooting hand and it hurts to rack the slide or clear a jam, I switch to a snubbie J Frame with a Crimson Trace grip in .38 +P.

You can use it one handed if you have to and, if you practice a lot with it, reload is pretty easy. Plus 38 for practice is cheap to buy new or reload.

As for accuracy? Look up the late Bob Munden, using a snubbie to pop a balloon at 200 yards 3 times in a row.

Of course ... Bob probably went through the number of rounds I shoot all year in about an hour, but it shows the accuracy is there if you practice.

[rrneck]

14. Believe it or not back in the day

I was able to shoot walnuts out of a tree (30 yards or so) with a S&W six inch K frame. Of course it had been nicely tuned and I was shooting single action. Good times. I wish I could get to the range more.

[DonP]

22. I picked up a used L frame with a 6 inch barrel, a 686-4 in .357

Then I indulged myself, and sent it to Jerry Miculek's operation to go over the trigger, lock works put on his special Miculek grips to smooth things out. His son in law does most of the bench work with Jerry looking over his shoulder.

Not cheap and I had to wait about 6 weeks, but ... the trigger is smooth as butter and in single action it has to be about an under 3 pound trigger pull and even in double action it feels like about 5 pounds or less with no stacking. I'd love to take it apart and see what they did inside, but I'd screw it up somehow. I just accept the magic.

With .38 I can shoot it all day without my finger getting cramped or sore and with the weight it has at 6 inches 38+P is nothing. Even 357 isn't too bad, unless I use fire breathing loads.

If I can save some money up, I might send one of my snubbies to them to work over too.

[Riftaxe]

30. That picture bugs the hell out of me

Placing it on a barely supporting bush and sticking a branch through the trigger guard and for extra stupidity putting it in front of the trigger.

As far as snubbies go, they are fine for self defense at .38 and larger calibers, revolvers definitely have the edge on simplicity.

[ManiacJoe]

48. The gun was not loaded for the picture.

Pretty sure of that.

[BigAlanMac]

58. I happen to own an S&W 442 exactly like that one

and for one thing it is double action only.
Notice there is no external hammer to cock?
The long trigger pull takes a lot more force than the total weight of a loaded gun.
You could hang that thing on a peg fully loaded and not have to worry until some idiot pushed down on it. But being on a thin twig like that, the twig can't possibly provide enough force to fire that gun.

[Riftaxe]

63. I never had any thoughts about whether it is or not

unloaded, the picture is pure shit. We are not dealing with chisels here,. there is no cylinder out...so fucking stupid as hell.

[spin]

44. The J-Frame S&W in the picture is one of the most popular handguns for concealed carry ...

in our nation.

A Model 642 is my prime carry weapon.

This revolver offers reliability in a compact and light weapon that is very suitable for concealed carry. The internal hammer eliminates the possibly of the weapon hanging up or snagging in a pocket or holster.

The drawback is that it takes practice to master shooting double action only shooting which is necessary when using a revolver with an internal hammer. The recoil of this weapon makes such practice uncomfortable for many people.

While this revolver can be quite accurate at long range, the short sight radius and the rudimentary sights makes target style shooting at a distance challenging. Since the prime use of this revolver is for self defense, it would most likely be used at ranges under 21 feet.

[gejohnston]

46. If I decide to carry,

it would most likely be mine as well
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=143082

[ileus]

54. My wife carry the 642 version of this with Crimson Trace grips.

Great little pistol that's for sure.

It's amazing the groups she can achieve with it at 10 yards.

I'm going to start loading her some powder puff rounds to have for family fun time at the range.

[Yavapai]

57. I bought two of these,

1 for my wife, 1 for myself. They shoot .38 p+ ammo and when you put the empty airlight in one hand and the ammo in the other, they weigh just about the same. My only complaint is the recoil is rather heavy due to the light weight of the gun. But they are really easy to conceal with the right holster.

Edit to add: My wife is a much better shot with this gun than I am (actually a better shot with her model 29 in .357 also...)

[Skeeter Barnes]

55. Never have shot a J Frame. I'd like to eventually get a Ruger LCR in 38spl.

I do enjoy shooting a double action revolver. And I hate it when people at the range fire every shot from their DA revolver in single action.

[SkatmanRoth]

60. The Smith and Wesson Model 60 is an excellent self defense gun

It is small, not too difficult to conceal, can be kept on the 'night stand', and is powerful for its size.

I do not find the recoil excessive, but a good solid grip is needed to manage shooting it. I can hit targets the size of soda cans at 15 yards (with a few rounds of practice) . I fired a box of 50 .357 magnum on one range trip with no ill effects.

It is well within legal guidelines. It is a revolver and it only holds five bullets. It does not impress law enforce officers like a 9mm double stack Glock with 18 bullets available without reloading. It is easy to demonstrate it is safe by rolling out the cylinder and holding it by the top strap.

What's not to like?

[Marshall III]

61. I used to have a little toy snub nose pistol when I was about 5 or 6.

But then I grew up I didn't really feel the need for such things anymore.

But I'm sure yours is very nice.

[SQUEE]

65. at 9 I learned to pipe down when serious talk was going on,

and that hollow drums bang the loudest... How ever does your toy gun relate to the SOP?

[Marshall III]

66. <editted by the author for civilities sake>

Last edited Fri Apr 18, 2014, 08:36 PM - Edit history (1)

Snide remark removed-

[gejohnston]

67. however,

the brains and backbone of someone who is either 5'2" and 90 pounds or the wheelchair bound is no match for the stronger and healthier meth head, rapist, sociopath. Or, is that their tough luck?

[Marshall III]

68. I absolutely agree. A firearm is a tool with very real applications.

I've just never seen the attraction, or fascination as a hobby.

Different strokes for different folks- with rational regulations.

[oneshooter]

69. You mean this one?

"Toy guns are like real guns in that as a man matures, he needs neither....
as eventually most men develop brains and a backbone. For those who don't, there are guns."

Live up to your words, don't hide them, be a man.

[Marshall III]

71. No thanks.

No use picking on the weak.

I'm far above and beyond that.

[SQUEE]

72. I'm sure you are gonna make a sterling impression in all you do

I hope for your sake you are interned with a Bloomberg Corporation.

Your antics in this thread reflect badly on you

[Marshall III]

73. Thanks for your concern.

But shouldn't you be standing a post for Mr. Bundy in Nevada?

[SQUEE]

74. No,I have not tendered ANY opinion on that one way or another.

Nor do I plan to, it is hardly on my radar, and I have far more important things to think about.

But here's a little clue skippy, I would be far more likely to have crosshairs on the fool with the unscoped Saiga on the bridge rather than filling in his dope card. You really might wanna think before you go making a bigger fool of yourself, your bosses might realize you are not too good at the art of reasoning.

I actually loathe RW militia types, see I am a Jew, and well, we kinda have a history with each other. perhaps you've heard? Hence my insistence on keeping my weapons, and training with them, it's kind of a family tradition.

[Jgarrick]

70. I used to have to rely on others to protect me when I was 5 or 6.

But then I grew up.

[pablo_marmol]

62. I'm happy with mine.

Though firing .357 rounds with it puts quite a wallop on the hand.

[oldhippie]

64. Yep, I carry one of those ....

You really need to be in fear of your life to want to shoot it with .357 Mags!