Mullen: Soldiers carrying guns on bases is not a fix

[MindMover]

Allowing soldiers to carry weapons on military bases is not a solution to the increase in attacks there, said retired Adm. Michael Mullen said Sunday.

“I’m not one -- as someone who has been on many, many bases and posts -- that would argue for arming anybody who is on base. I think that actually invites much more difficult challenges,” the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said on NBC's "Meet the Press."

“Certainly we have to do everything we can to protect everybody that’s on base," Mullen said. “I’m sure this incident will cause Secretary [of Defense Chuck] Hagel to review those procedures. But I’d be much more in the camp of fixing it that way and focusing on the individuals rather than routinely allowing arms on any military base in the country.”

Mullen’s comments follow Rep. Mike McCaul’s push for legislation to allow members of the military to carry concealed weapons on base, following Wednesday's deadly shooting at Fort Hood, Texas. The Texas Republican said on "Fox News Sunday" that Congress should look at giving senior leadership at these bases the the ability to carry a weapon.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/politico-live/2014/04/mullen-soldiers-carrying-weapons-on-bases-is-not-a-186373.html


At least one cool rational person is still in the house ...

I believe that there should be no private transportation allowed on a military base ... parking off base with bus transportation on base ... before entering on bus checked for weapons .... IMHO

[gejohnston]

1. I don't know what those more difficult challenges are

It would have helped his argument if he explained what those challenges would be. I can can think of some, for example (before I retired) where would I put my rifle while at my desk? Imagine having to take it with you even when you go down the hall to take a piss (leaving it in my office unattended in my office would be a security breach, like leaving a safe open) plus the lost productivity of everybody showing up to the armory at the same time. I don't know about the other branches, but AF bases usually have one armory. Those are just some of the practical matters.
Since Mullian is a navy, his logic is based on how things work on ships, plus his specialty was surface warfare and mangement.
If they were going to have a military official oppose it, they should have had someone with a background in security/LE such as a commander from NCIS, AFOSI, or Army CID.
However, Interpol's Secretary General may have a different view
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/exclusive-westgate-interpol-chief-ponders-armed-citizenry/story?id=20637341&singlePage=true

In some ways it is on the same level as the recent calls for "assault weapons" ban, it is a hysterical knee jerk response to very rare event.

[SQUEE]

2. Arming everyone?

Hell no, as a former 11, yeah I recognize 2 facts, one not everyone in the Mil is a soldier. Two, a trained combat response vs response needed for active civilian shooter situations are worlds apart. I had to unlearn alot to work civilian side for the DOD..
So, the whole argument of how we have these people armed overseas... apples to cotter pins
BUT, to completely DISARM citizens on post is wrong as well. Trained and properly armed personnel on post will serve as a deterrent to this kind of shit. And considering the huge target that our bases are to a bad actor...
It is far easier for DOD to mandate extensive and effective CCW training for citizens on post.

[ileus]

3. Wonder why the trust issues in the military?

[MindMover]

4. I wonder why you are wondering when on the same military base multiple murders

and you have no trust issues .. ?

[Duckhunter935]

5. Who is saying everyone?

How about trained and licensed CCW holders above the rank of SSG? They would be allowed to carry personal owned firearms.

[gejohnston]

6. or even DoD civilians?

[Duckhunter935]

7. True

Missed that and I am one of those.

[SQUEE]

8. I dont even think we need a rank cut off

But, the DOD has the ability to mandate a higher standard for training.
A program with classroom theory and practical range time, shit i would LOVE to be involved in a pilot program that goes beyond a rote legal class and a 15 meter paper shoot. Actual scenarios, shoot no shoot simulation, situational awareness... imagine the test data we could gain from a dedicated and intensive TRADOC system.

The military culture by it's nature is conservative (little C) and risk averse, especially as you get into the political charged climate of higher O ratings. they find it far better to let soldiers die than rock the boat. And the Pentagon has always viewed the generic GI as a child and an knuckle dragger...

[PDJane]

9. I suggest that everyone go to a blog called Stonekettle Station,

And read the post called Bang, Bang Crazy 9. http://www.stonekettle.com/

More guns are not a solution, and they never have been. Apart from anything else, when a bunch of people are armed, and the shooter is in the military, how do you sort out which guy with a gun is the bad guy? How many people get shot because they have a gun in their hand and they look shifty?


Sigh............

[gejohnston]

10. his post isn't even rational and a waste of my time.

As soon as he started the "gun nut" name calling, it was obviously not worth reading.

More guns are not a solution, and they never have been.

nice cliche, but not a valid argument. Picture yourself being one of the VT victims. The doors are chained and blocked so no one can get in or out. You look out the window and see cops standing around doing nothing for 45 minutes.

Apart from anything else, when a bunch of people are armed, and the shooter is in the military, how do you sort out which guy with a gun is the bad guy?

the one that is shooting at you.

How many people get shot because they have a gun in their hand and they look shifty?

very few.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

20. ~~~

the one that is shooting at you.

"The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get." good one

[SQUEE]

11. Sigh...And yet In Operation Just Cause

Despite being in quite a few firefights with the PDF, in both urban and jungle environments, in same uniform and LBE, and equipped with the same weapons as my unit I never had a fratricide.
Simplistic whining, and uninformed ideas from will not solve this complicated problem.

I am always struck by the vivid MOVIE like scenarios so many Antis indulge themselves in..

I don't have the time to dissect the incredible amount of idiocy I see in that silly little blog.

[PDJane]

12. In other words, a military man with a firearms instruction permit and experience

Isn't worth listening to. Right. I'll keep that in mind for the next time.

[gejohnston]

13. since he was a warrant officer in the navy

I'm going to guess it was more likely administration or some technical field than LE or something like the SEALs. SQEE was an infantryman.
Mine was 2 years field artillery in the army; and 20 years in the Air Force split between Combat Camera, AAVS, TACREC and history

[SQUEE]

14. No offense to the Chief..

But his mental image of a firefight on post... Well that told me what I needed to know about his mindset and experience.
I have seen the weapons training that the overall vast majority of the military, up to and including many sleepy eyed Army and Marine door kickers... myself included. My responses and ideas are based on experience and training in and OUT of the one size fits all military training.

[Brown Coat]

15. If it wasn't for an armed soldier more would have been killed.

"Allowing soldiers to carry weapons on military bases is not a solution"
Except when an armed soldier on base is the solution. If it wernt for an armed MP more people would have been killed.

[MindMover]

16. I am not disagreeing with a gun took down another gun ...

Instead, it could be no firearms allowed on base with the exception of military training and that of course could be, with restrictions ...

[gejohnston]

17. That is how it works, usually

Privately owned guns are allowed in base housing if registered with the military police, barracks residents must store them in the unit armory and register it with the MPs. That is policy in both US and Canadian militaries. The post commander said that the pistol was not registered nor authorized on base, and was not carried or possessed legally as defined by DoD policy.

[Eleanors38]

18. As it stands, liberal South Austin is better armed.

I find it peculiar that the hurley-burley of a civilian neighborhood has more and better distributed firepower than a military base. At least some of the soldiers could be allowed to volunteer and train to be security. You don't need "everyone" for cat's sake.

[gejohnston]

19. Both sides of the gun issue are missing the real issue.

Remember the discussions about the Bush administration sending us to war without the medical infrastructure for mental and brain injury casualties? Multiple deployments? In World War Two, although someone would be deployed for two or three years, there would be something like 10-30 days of combat, most of the time getting there (Don't let them kid you, PTSD existed then. The war fucked Audy Murphy's head up). In modern wars, with helicopters and that we were in one asymmetrical war and an occupation that used such tactics to kick us and our allies out. In Vietnam to present, you got to battle faster, and it came to you. That increases the stress. In Vietnam most only went for one tour, even the "lifers" were one or maybe two tours at most, not the five plus that isn't that unusual today. Add to that, unit commanders with a Patton complex sending suffering troops back for tour five, or simply tossing them out for some minor infraction to "save money".
The latest spree killing at Ft. Hood, as well as the one in Ft. Lewis are those chickens coming home to roost. That is the real issue. It isn't the DoD weapon on base policy, the NRA, or liberal gun laws that are to blame. The blame falls squarely on the Bush/Cheney administration, those commanders mention above, and DoD medical system. Nobody else.
http://cdn.csgazette.biz/soldiers/day4.html

I believe that there should be no private transportation allowed on a military base ... parking off base with bus transportation on base ... before entering on bus checked for weapons .... IMHO

After 9/11, we did that for awhile, but didn't check for pistols. The cars were checked for bombs. While it can be done with most AF bases and Coast Guard stations, large Army posts, not so much.