I don't like open carry, do you? If you agee, would you be willing to...

[Bay Boy]

... get rid of CPL laws as per Vermont?

I feel that some who open carry do it because they are too cheap to go through the cost of getting a CPL in their state.
Thus get rid of the licensing fees and you can get rid of open carry too.

[Warren Stupidity]

1. Open carry is rude and obnoxious and concealed carry should be illegal

for anyone who does not have a clearly defined and strictly limited need to carry a gun.

[Bay Boy]

2. I agree that open carry is rude...

...I disagree that CCW should be only allowed for those that can prove a need.

[friendly_iconoclast]

3. Well then, Warren, better get busy. "Fine words butter no parsnips"...

...as Mark Twain once wrote. There are 50 sets ofstate laws that need to be changed
in order for you to get what you want...

[Warren Stupidity]

4. I'm sorry you think you need to wander around armed and dangerous while shopping for groceries.

What a sad way to live a life.

[Bay Boy]

7. I too carry to the grocery store...

...and lots of other ordinary places. No one (other than family members) knows I do that and I live a very happy life.

[Starboard Tack]

9. And that makes it OK that nobody knows?

What is with you people? Open carry may be clownish, ridiculous and obnoxious, but at least it is honest. If you want to exercise your so-called "2A rights", at least have the guts to be honest and open about your fear of your fellow citizens.

[gejohnston]

23. maybe because it is no one's business?

What is with you people? Open carry may be clownish, ridiculous and obnoxious, but at least it is honest.

When I open carry, how is it any of those things? The coyotes, pronghorn, and deer doesn't judge. If I open carry and there is no human or paved road for miles, is there a clown? You can not work to understand something because that "understanding" is still an illusion. Understanding only comes through acceptance on its own terms.

If you want to exercise your so-called "2A rights", at least have the guts to be honest and open about your fear of your fellow citizens.

so called? Never studied the Enlightenment did you? All rights are natural from the infinite mystery, aka god and not mere privileges allowed the subjects by Parliament and Crown.

Of course myths must be maintained even when dis proven in a court of law. Every ideology has the problem, rather than facing the fact that they all have self serving ideologues who put ideology ahead of the truth and facts.

[Starboard Tack]

26. We're talking about carrying around other people, urban environments, not in the desert, prairie or

some trail in Wyoming. Not too many pronged horns in the shopping mall.

[gejohnston]

28. actually, there are.

they graze in the winter. Lawns are easy to get to under the snow. Down side is that it attracts coyotes and lions. Some wolves have been sighted in my part of the world. A guy my brother went to high school with lost nine sheep to some wolves last week. Badly wounded one of the dogs, who managed to kill one of them..
When I was in college, saw an elk grazing in front of the student union.
In town, concealed or not at all. Remember, only true understanding comes from acceptance on its own terms. All value judgments are based on the observer's assumptions and are mere illusions. True liberalism is freeing yourself from all of those assumptions and prejudices.

a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
c. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/liberal

[HockeyMom]

51. I agree with you, Starboard

While I don't like people walking around with guns in public at all, I would prefer them to be open carrying. If I don't want to associate with strangers carrying guns in supermarket lines, restaurants, gas stations, etc., that is not my right? I don't have the right to walk away from you? With concealed carry, I do not know and do not have the choice to leave the company of that person. Do you people really believe EVERYONE has to be around guns everywhere they go?

My husband has a CCW but he knows that I will not go anywhere in public with him carrying, but I have to do this with strangers I don't even know, or know who is carrying.

Starboard, they just don't get it. THEIR "rights" trump everyone else's. Maybe they don't want to be treated like a piranha by others? After all GOOD GUYS are the ones with the guns! Right.

[Starboard Tack]

54. I think most folk agree with us on this.

The problem is that we have been manipulated by the all powerful gun lobby, that doesn't give a damn about constitutional rights or public safety. Only money, and the way to make more money is to expand the market. Guns don't wear out as quickly as other consumer items, so they have to expand their market by creating a whole new class of consumers - the CCW crowd.
The level of exploitation is truly insidious and is a sign of a rapidly failing society. Kinda sad when you see intelligent people falling for that kind of crap, but we have been trained since childhood to consume all kinds of garbage.
Good luck retraining your husband. So ironic that you refuse to accompany him when he carries, when so many here claim they carry to protect their loved ones. Crazy world we live in.

[sarisataka]

58. I think you are wrong

re: open carry and people would rather have that than CCW

It seems most would like anyone who open carries, hassled, ridiculed, arrested, lose their rights, even killed.
I use these threads for example, and probably missed a few fates proposed.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023711308
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023716607

[Starboard Tack]

61. Fact is, most people would prefer no carry

But, if those who carry insist on doing so, then most of us would like to be informed. Let's face it, would you rather know where the scorpions and snakes are when hiking, or would you rather wander obliviously. Personally, I like to be aware of my surroundings and assess any potential risks, in order to take appropriate action.

You make my point for me. If people see you carrying a gun, they are likely to get away from you and call the police. That's why they prefer you carry openly.

[sarisataka]

67. I believe, given the option

very many would choose no carry. Since the reality is different I wonder what the results of a poll would be. If members of the public can only carry firearms in one fashion, should it be open or concealed. It may be closer than I think but don't believe it would end as you think.

I have seen people advocating making false police reports to insure they get a response. I don't believe that is what you are promoting. If a person wishes to avoid open carriers but allows them to go there way. I have no issue with that. I don't believe carrying a long arm makes any sense from a safety, security or personal protection standpoint.

[HALO141]

69. "I don't believe carrying a long arm makes any sense..."

"I don't believe carrying a long arm makes any sense from a safety, security or personal protection standpoint."

Except that a handgun is a damned pitiful piece of equipment for one to have to bet their life on. The only reason to carry one is convenience.

[sarisataka]

71. Were I going to a gunfight

I would drive the opposite direction. If it is unavoidable, I will have a rifle or shotgun and several friends also as heavily armed as we can be.

A handgun is convenient and easier to carry while out for a walk or shopping. Pitiful though it may be, it is better than nothing.

Plan A is of course to not make that bet and avoid situations that risk life and limb.

[HALO141]

87. I agree on all counts.

[sarisataka]

104. I appreciate the effort...

and even though it seems like herding cats to get people to answer a simple question based on the real world situation as it stands today. It appears that the 50% point is within the margin of error; I am surprised it is such a push.
I would be interested in the response in GD, though I understand if you don't want to risk your rep. If it helps, I do not think you are a deep cover RKBA supporter.

Cheers

[oneshooter]

115. " I don't have the right to walk away from you?"

You certainly do have that right, and can exercise it at any time.

What you are looking for is an excuse.

[HockeyMom]

116. If I cannot see that you are carrying,

I am then not given the option. You are being sneaky with your concealed carry. Or perhaps you don't like the idea of people looking at your gun, giving you nasty comments, and walking away from you?

[oneshooter]

117. Why would you give nasty comments to a total stranger?

Who is carrying a firearm.

[rrneck]

119. What makes you think you deserve that option? nt

[HockeyMom]

120. I have to associate with every stranger I meet on the street?

Never anyone you meet on the street that you don't want to be around?

[rrneck]

121. No. nt

What gives you the right to inspect what people carry so you can decide if you would deign to associate with them?

[HockeyMom]

122. I will not associate with my HUSBAND of 40 years in public

if he is carrying. Why should I with a STRANGER? Yes, Viriginia, gunners can and do have spouses who are not gunners.

[rrneck]

123. Ordinarally your relationship with your husband would not be germane

but since you use it to make a distinction between him and a stranger, it gets a little more interesting.

What you have here is an Ecological Fallacy derived from an Exception fallacy.

The ecological fallacy occurs when you make conclusions about individuals based only on analyses of group data.

...

An exception fallacy is sort of the reverse of the ecological fallacy. It occurs when you reach a group conclusion on the basis of exceptional cases. This is the kind of fallacious reasoning that is at the core of a lot of sexism and racism.

So you make assumptions about some anonymous person based on the attributes he shares with a group, and those attributes are based on an opinion you have that has no basis in fact, but is derived entirely from your emotional response to an object they may carry.

Now, would it be reasonable to assume that you would codify your fallacious reasoning into law if you got the opportunity? I expect it would. We should consider ourselves lucky that your attitude is rare. Horrible injustices have been committed because of it.

There's a word to describe the practice of making personal moral judgements about individuals based on fallacious opinions about entire groups of people. It's a very ugly word for a very ugly attitude.

[spin]

59. It would be illegal for me to open carry in public in my state of Florida. ...

Under Florida law to carry in public I have to have a concealed weapons permit and I have to conceal my handgun. Because Florida is very warm during most of the year, I usually wear light clothing and it is unusual to ever wear a jacket during most months. For that reason, I carry a smaller handgun than I might if I lived in a colder environment. Concealing a full or mid sized handgun under light clothing is a big challenge. Legal open carry would eliminate this problem.

If I lived in a state where open carry was common and accepted, I would probably open carry. The people I would encounter would not be intimidated in the least by the fact that I was armed.

If I lived in a state where it was legal but was uncommon, I would probably avoid open carry. You may feel that I am unwilling to be honest and open and that I am fearful about my fellow citizens. I will point out that I have no desire to scare excessively paranoid people who for some reason can't understand that a holstered firearm in a proper holster designed for the weapon is safe and that people with evil intentions rarely walk around with holstered guns in plain view.

I personally feel those who feel it necessary to go to a Starbucks to show off their firearms or to carry a rifle at a Tea Party rally project a poor image of responsible gun owners and consequently help gun the cause of control advocates far more than the cause of gun rights advocates.

[HockeyMom]

60. I live in Florida too

They have been trying to get open carry made legal. Wouldn't surprise me if they did as the Gunshine State, but as I said, I would prefer that so I can stay away from people carrying guns in public. Yes, I would walk out of a store not be around people with guns.

[spin]

62. I doubt that open carry will ever pass in Florida. ...

The state is far too dependent on tourism to ever allow that to happen.

Most visitors have no idea that over 1,000,000 resident Floridians have concealed weapons permits. Miami-Dade county has 97,314 people with carry permits and Hillsborough country (where I used to live) has 57,232.
(Ref: http://www.freshfromflorida.com/content/download/7502/118869/cw_active.pdf)

I would imagine that every time you visit any big box store there are at least several other shoppers who are legally carrying concealed inside with you. If open carry was legal, it would be my guess that you would have to walk out of a lot of stores to avoid those carrying openly.

[HockeyMom]

65. I most certainly WOULD

and how many tourists would be doing the same????? They know where the $$$$$ is, but maybe that is why DISNEY fought against guns on their private property and WON?

[spin]

66. I agree and that's why I said that I doubt if open carry will ever pass in Florida. (n/t)

[gejohnston]

72. actually you sort of can

as long as you are hunting or fishing. Meaning, you could be on St. Pete pier with a fishing pole in hand and be legal to OC. However, walking down a dirt road in Citrus County wouldn't be.

[spin]

76. True. ....

Florida Open Carry

Welcome to Florida Open Carry!

***snip***

In Florida, you can legally open carry a loaded firearm while engaged in, or going to and from, Fishing, Hunting, and Camping. With some planning and preparation, a law abiding person can open carry a firearm in public and stay in compliance with the law.
http://www.open-carry.org

While you legally may be able to do it, I bet there is an excellent chance that you will get hassled by the St. Pete police for open carrying on the pier.

[gejohnston]

80. There have been enough cop baiters on You Tube

hoping for a false arrest payday, so I'm sure St Pete cops are aware. Its one of those things were one side is being stupid and counter productive, while the other is irrational.

[HALO141]

75. Perhaps you should consider a more agoraphobic lifestyle.

Statistically, every one in 19 people you come across in Florida has a license to carry concealed. Heck, that could easily translate into 5 or more legally armed people in Walmart at any given time. If you're going to start walking out of every place where someone is armed you might as well just make the decision right now that you're not going to go anywhere.

[gejohnston]

70. Do you know why open carry was banned in Florida?

Google Watson v Stone 1941.

[Eleanors38]

77. In the interest of intestinal fortitude, decisions as to mode of carry...

are matters for individual states. Some say concealed, some say open, a few say both. I wouldn't object if people have both ways, but that is not the case in Texas where it is concealed only. No choice.

About "you people." YOUR allies use 2A advocates as punching bags (or penis metaphors) for BOTH modes; we have to live with what each state specifies. I prefer concealed because I don't want to draw the attention of Hyperpunks who may want to attack me in hopes of getting the gun, and because many of Your allies wet beds over open-carry.

BTW, your contention about "fears of fellow citizens" is just another gratuitous and unfounded attack on Your fellow citizens. It's the rather uncommon punk which causes people, armed or not, any concern.

[Starboard Tack]

82. You miss my point completely

First of all, it has nothing to do with 2a, but about the cynical manipulation of politicians, by corporations and their NRA lackeys, in order to market their products to gullible consumers. They care nothing about 2a, except for how they can profit from it. By pressuring states to outlaw OC, the only option remaining is CC, which translates into more profits from sales of new compact guns and peripheral products to accommodate that burgeoning market.
Is it possible that you can't see that, or don't you care?
Who are these "punks" you refer to? Are they who you are afraid of? Are they not your fellow citizens? Or are you only concerned about "hyperpunks" who want to steal your gun? Sounds like the only reason you want t hide your gun is to prevent them from stealing it. Guess what, if you leave it at home, nobody will steal it from you. It takes two to tango.

[Eleanors38]

83. Maybe you don't have a plausible point. Increase sales of compact guns?

By supporting only CC? I'm afraid that's stretching it. Most people who choose to carry WANT compact and light arms and need no political gyrations. If open-carry is a significant political force, it will show itself beyond a handful of folks toting AR 15s; I.e., it doesn't seem to be a large "movement." Does that deal with your concerns?

My only concerns with "fellow citizens" are violent punks. The vast majority of citizens are NOT of this ilk, so I don't worry about it much, esp. since I avoid the places where these punks are most likely to hang out. But there is no reason to advertise your gun to those who are so super-aggressive as to try and take it.

The problem for controllers is they don't really know what they want as to carry mode. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Maybe you should poll them in Bansalot.

[friendly_iconoclast]

55. I agree- and btw, I do not own a gun and haven't for decades

A widespread assumption of 'facts' that aren't actually facts might explain why you folks aren't
doing so well lately...

[Agnosticsherbet]

5. Open carry is terrorism and intimidation.... n/t

[Starboard Tack]

10. Agreed and concealed carry is moronic, paranoid, deceitful and just plain stupid.

As is any "carry" without a damn good reason like having been threatened or being out to shoot someone. Talk about dumb and dumber.

[Bay Boy]

37. If I were...

...omniscient I would only carry when I knew I was going to be threatened. Since I'm not omniscient and I don't know when I would be threatened I carry most of the time. It is not stupid to be prepared, regardless of what you say.

[Lizzie Poppet]

112. Nice.

I feel the same way about opposition to it w/o an actual rational argument against it.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

44. If you choose to be scared that's your fault.

It should be noted that those who are of ill-intention choose secrecy up until they point they act (as well as avoid open displays of possible resistance).

[Agnosticsherbet]

91. In a nation where more than oughly 25,379 people have died from guns in the U.S. since the Newtown

murders, any not concerned is livening in a fantasy world. Knowing that, anyone who carries a weapon in public should understand that a lot of people will be justifiable concerned.

[gejohnston]

93. How can there be over 25K people dieing from guns

when there were 13K total homicides? About 8K were with guns.

[Agnosticsherbet]

96. Suicides and accidents with guns are gun violence.

How Many People Have Been Killed by Guns Since Newtown?

PBS commentator Mark Shields says more killed by guns since '68 than in all U.S. wars

[gejohnston]

98. so accidental drownings in swimming pools

which outnumber accidental shootings, is water violence?
self hangings are rope violence?
Sorry, newspeak and appeal to emotion

BTW, 100K die every year to medical malpractice.
According to the CDC, at least 100K people defend themselves each year from crimes. Some criminologists put estimates much higher.

[Agnosticsherbet]

101. Your argument is a false analogy, a logical fallacies.

We are discussing guns and, specifically, the terroristic threat posed by people who open carry in public in order to intimidate people to stay quiet.

False analogy is another of those right wing discussion tactics to turn the discussion away from real solutions.

[gejohnston]

102. no it isn't, we are talking about fatal accidents and suicides

We are discussing guns and, specifically, the terroristic threat posed by people who open carry in public in order to intimidate people to stay quiet.

That is not why people carry, that is your own imagination and irrational fear.

False analogy is another of those right wing discussion tactics to turn the discussion away from real solutions.

Both sides do it, and gun control is not a real solution based on any empirical evidence according to the National Academy of Science study done during the "ban". BTW, labeling something as "right wing" doesn't make it so.

[EX500rider]

105. And i think jumping off buildings counts as building violence. n/t

[gejohnston]

106. I always thought of it as sidewalk violence

because that is what actually kills you.

[EX500rider]

107. I don't know...

....I heard everybody in the end dies of heart failure, regardless of the cause.

[Lizzie Poppet]

113. I blame Newton.

That rat bastard...


This thread sure delivers teh lulz, though.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

99. Where is this tremendous concern when it comes to getting criminals

off the streets and the mentally ill into treatment? Most malicious guns crimes are perpetrated by career criminals. Half of gun deaths are from suicide. Yet the predators are allowed to run uninhibited and the mentally ill are left in emotional torment. It's not about concern, it's about control. Pro-controllers choose to ignore these facts because they choose to be scared of decent people simply going about their lives.

[GalaxyHunter]

85. that is your opinion, not fact. n/t

I'm sorry you're scared.

[Agnosticsherbet]

92. People who carry guns are the ones who are so frightened that they have to carry a means to kill

in order to gain a false sense of security.

The rest of us are concerned because with more then 25,000 dead due to gun violence since Newton.

[gejohnston]

94. the 25K myth

most were suicides. 13K homicides total, about 8 or 9K by gun. If suicide by gun is "gun violence" does that also mean suicide by hanging is "rope violence"?
And what does any of that have to do with your projection on those who carry legally?

[Agnosticsherbet]

95. So you are saying that 8 or 9 thousands murdered by guns, which is More than in many wars

we should not be concerned.

It think it is sad that people are so terrified they must carry a means to kill on them at all times.

Guns are a massive public safety issue. (25,000 dead, they are dead from gun violence. I am sure their families are consoled by the lack of empathy form those who carry guns.)

I get it that people want to justify carrying a gun because they are terrified, but come up with something real instead of searching out the tired and pathetic right wing libertarian talking points.

[gejohnston]

97. with guns

do you say murdered by knives?

It think it is sad that people are so terrified they must carry a means to kill on them at all times.

You are projecting. That may be the reason you would decide to, but has nothing to do with anyone else.

Guns are a massive public safety issue. (25,000 dead, they are dead from gun violence. I am sure their families are consoled by the lack of empathy form those who carry guns.)

Most are suicide, which is not really a violent act. Even so, there is no evidence gun laws will do anything. Come to think of it, there is no evidence that murder rates will drop either.

I get it that people want to justify carrying a gun because they are terrified, but come up with something real instead of searching out the tired and pathetic right wing libertarian talking points.

Please a point with substance. Emotional rants is one reason why the gun control movement fails. Appeals to emotion are meaningless to me, it is an INTP thing.

[GalaxyHunter]

103. how do you know the ones who are carrying guns are terrified?

have you asked them?

have they told you?


or is that just what must be true?


I feel that the whole "they carry guns because they are scared" is a anti-gunner myth that has no truth to it. I have never seen any evidence to support that claim.


do you have any?

[TreasonousBastard]

6. One of my odder fantasies is...

that if I were to be diagnosed with some dread disease that limits my life to a few months of agony...

find one of these assholes and start poking him, daring him to shoot me. Either way, I win and he loses.

(But that's just a fantasy. Fantasy, as in weird dream.)

[rl6214]

8. I do not open carry since concealed carry is legal in Texas.

I agree that the availability of CC is why many don't OC. make a nationwide CCL and I think a lot of the open carry would go away.

[Starboard Tack]

12. That's the best reason for making CC illegal.

Let's see the morons who want to carry their guns around. Don't be shy, we all want to see it.

[rl6214]

14. You don't want CC and you don't want OC. There's just no pleasing you people.

Why am I not surprised.

[Starboard Tack]

17. Sure there is

We will be very pleased if you leave your guns at home and only use them where it is safe to do so, which is not around others in public. Go to the range, go hunting, go to the desert. Just stay away from others who don't want to be around you or your guns and if you must exercise your precious right to carry then do it honestly and carry openly. Give the rest of us an opportunity to make choices.

[rl6214]

19. You don't get to choose your own option.

[Starboard Tack]

48. I am aware of that.

But if you could choose, which would you go for, OC or CC.
IMO, the trend of CC is all about money. The gun industry knows that very few people are idiotic enough to walk down the average American street or through a shopping mall wearing a gun. Let's face, in most places, outside of Wyoming and Alaska, you would be shunned, ridiculed or shied away from. So, how do we peddle more guns? We lobby for CC, then we can peddle all kinds of fancy paraphernalia to go with all the fancy new models.
Let's face it, it's a no-brainer. First you peddle fear, then you peddle the pills to assuage the fear. And, in doing so, you create an army of mindless consumers who actually believe that they are safer being surrounded by more concealed weapons.
It truly boggles the mind how gullible some folk are.

[HALO141]

74. Your post

is a perfect example of why gun-rights supporters/organizations are unlikely to agree to any further "compromises."

[Starboard Tack]

81. You are absolutely right.

What else would one expect from morons who think guns have rights.

[HALO141]

86. Yes, I am right.

Your attempt at sarcasm not withstanding.

[Starboard Tack]

88. Believe me, there was no attempt at sarcasm.

I honestly think you are right. Being right is not always a good thing, sad to say.
Meteorologists are often right about hurricane predictions.

[HALO141]

89. By the same token

they don't point at every cloud and call it a killer storm.

[Starboard Tack]

90. Very true. The irony is that both of us are right.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

45. Crime never happens in public venues?

[Bay Boy]

38. Oh I get it!

You want us to open carry so you can make juvenile penis jokes about us!
Well, have at it. I carry a small gun, what does that mean?

[Starboard Tack]

43. I don't make penis jokes about guns. I'm talking about openness and honesty, not your penis

What the fuck is with you guys and your penis obsession? Whatever it is, there is nothing funny about it.
But let me be clear, while we're on that subject, which you brought up btw, Bad Boy, I have no problem with you having either a small gun or a small penis, but neither have any business being used in public.

[Bay Boy]

53. Somehow I've managed to keep both...

...hidden while out in public.

And I saw what you did with my screen name

[Starboard Tack]

56. Good for you

I doubt you'll believe me, but that was not deliberate with your screen name. Seriously. Must've been a Freudian slip.

[Bay Boy]

63. I suppose...

...it's even funnier as a mistake. No hard feelings.

[shadowrider]

64. The penis obsession comes from the anti-gun crowd. Never have I seen it mentioned by pro-gun people

except the refute the anti's.

[Eleanors38]

79. "da 231 ft Penis of Doom looms over the St Pete pier!"

[rrneck]

11. I don't carry at all, but if I did, I wouldn't open carry.

It's just too controversial. I wouldn't want to make people nervous. But I don't support laws mandating open or concealed carry because they are mandating how people look, and that sort of thing doesn't work.

[Starboard Tack]

13. It's mandating how people behave in public, not how they look.

They have a choice, to carry or not, but why should they have a choice to carry a concealed weapon legally without a damned good reason?

[rrneck]

15. How is standing in line for a movie wearing a gun

different from standing in line not wearing a gun?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/behavior
be·hav·ior (b-hvyr)
n.
1. The manner in which one behaves.
2.
a. The actions or reactions of a person or animal in response to external or internal stimuli.

[Starboard Tack]

18. If the gun is visible, it gives others the option to stay in line or leave.

Most of us like to know what our options are and who we associate with. I call it risk assessment. What's wrong with that?

[rrneck]

21. You always have that option. What's the difference? nt

[Starboard Tack]

25. The difference is knowledge rather than wondering who may or may not be carrying a gun.

Obviously there is no guarantee, but whenever people congregate, especially strangers, the risk of confrontation exists. Adding firearms to such a situation poses risks for anyone in the vicinity. If those firearms are visible, then all around can make an informed decision whether to stay or leave the area.

[rrneck]

31. Adding firearms to such a situation poses risks for anyone in the vicinity.

Prove it.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

41. cos, rr - doncha know: That gun can load itself and, jump out of the holster all by itself

and aim and fire with intent to kill someone. ALL BY ITSELF!!!!!!! GUNS ARE EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!


people are NOT evil. only guns.

[rrneck]

42. Absolutely, also you can always tell what people are going to do just by looking at them. nt

[rl6214]

16. Why shouldn't they?

[Starboard Tack]

20. Because it encourages dishonesty and reduces public safety.

Sorry, but public safety comes before your desire to carry your gun around. At least, that's how it should be. Do you think Trayvon Martin would be dead if Zimmerman had carried openly? Think about it.

[gejohnston]

24. Since your knowlege of either is non existant

who knows? What you think you know, is not the same as knowing.

[Starboard Tack]

27. I have no clue what you're talking about, but have one on me.

[gejohnston]

29. fire sign theater

but nothing sends a young person down the wrong path like a mother do doesn't know your favorite food and that you hate basketball and dumps you off on absent dad when you get in trouble at school.

[Starboard Tack]

30. oooooooooookkkkkkkkkkkk

[gejohnston]

32. Seeing first hand and

listening the spin of ideologues and pundits left and right, taught me alot. The two didn't match. Of course, they were the same ones with Mormonphobic rants, so I really wasn't that surprised.

[gejohnston]

73. one more thing

Back stories are always fasinating.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

46. He's saying you're making unfounded assertions with no basis in observed fact.

[friendly_iconoclast]

57. Sadly not unique in this thread, as seen in the linked posts #4 and #55:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172132302#post4

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172132302#post55

[rl6214]

34. You don't know any more than I do.

Encourages dishonesty? Not hardly and my safety comes before your irrational fear of a gun that I may or may not be carrying.

[Deep13]

33. or we could prohibit all civilian carry. nt

[ileus]

35. I'd be willing to ditch CHP laws, and keep OC legal.

all this whining about OC is because people have the internet, see a couple of pictures and get poutraged.

Ask yourself when was the last time you saw someone (non LEO) open carrying....yesterday? Last week? Never?


I believe the too cheap could be possible, but I'd take the: don't want to subject themselves to unnecessary government checks for 1000 alex.


Let's face it anyone that's confident enough to OC is going to have a clean background. If someone is going to go so far to OC for personal safety, and put up with intimidation from those that oppose OC, who am I to deny that?

[hack89]

36. I would settle for national CCW reciprocity.

we keep hearing that guns should be regulated like cars. Lets start here.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

40. agreed.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

39. cops open carry

just sayin'

[Nuclear Unicorn]

47. My other favorite canard disproven by police practice --

"Thirty round magazines have no purpose except to massacre large numbers of people as quickly as possible!"



Oh, really?





Pictured above: Boston police enter private home to massacre large numbers of civilians while searching for the last remaining Tsarnaev brother.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

49. but, Cops are More Equal than you and I ... that is why -We- pay their salaries.

or some such shit as that.

[HockeyMom]

68. In 65 years I have never stood on a supermarket line with a cop

openly carrying a gun.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

78. Not my fault that you have lived such a gentrified existence.

[aikoaiko]

50. I'm OK with Open Carry, but I don't like the stunts.

[Common Sense Party]

52. I don't like open carry. I think it's silly. I don't think cost has anything to do with it.

I have a CCW permit. I rarely carry, but if I choose to I can do so legally, and it's no business of anyone here when or why I do it.

[AlinPA]

84. I don't like open carrying in public places. Hunting, fine. But walking into a theater or coffee

shop holding a shotgun, AR-15 or even a pistol in your hands is flat out stupid in this day and age. Most reasonable would not feel comfortable. I think it is stupid.

[Jenoch]

108. I am opposed to most open carry.

I also believe that CCW permits should only be issued to those who have taken a training class and qualified with a handgun on the range. That's the way it is done in Minnesota. About half of the class is taken up by the instructor telling those taking the class how much of a shitstorm they will be in if they ever take their concealed handgun out, let alone firing it at somebody.

[gejohnston]

109. I like Montana's system

when it comes to CCW. Permit only required in populated areas, so if to starts raining, you can put on your poncho while hunting etc. without being in violation. Open carry, depends on the local culture. Out in the sticks, makes sense. Urban areas, usually stupid. I'll actually have to give California credit for that.
The open carrier, in town anyway, I know was a guy that rode his motorcycle to the range, and that was the only legal way for him to carry it under Wyoming law at the time. Putting it in a backpack or saddle bag would have, he assumed, would have been the same as glovebox/under the car seat, which Wyoming forbade.
Florida's open carry is the stupidest. It is allowed during hunting season while hunting and fishing, but not backpacking in the sticks. IOW, you can OC while fishing off a bridge in downtown Tampa (the only people who actually do it also have a video camera looking for a false arrest pay day and notoriety on You Tube.), but not while walking down a dirt road in Citrus County.

[Jenoch]

110. I'm fairly certain in Minnesota

it is ok to carry a concealed gun while hunting. We do 90% of our hunting on our own property, so I guess it doesn't affect me anyway.

[NYC_SKP]

111. I think you should ask Robb.

He's been out lately but I'm missing his input...