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Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:01 PM

Interesting ATF Firearms Trace data for 2012

Firearms Trace Data 2012


All reports are in pdf format. I took a couple screenshots from the MA report.

Interesting that more traces were done because of possession charges than all other causes combined.
Most weapons that were traced were originally sold over three years before being used in a crime.
As I would expect, a lot firearms that were initially sold in NH and Maine. People move here or sell firearms to people who live here (in MA). What I wouldn't expect is the high rate of recovery of firearms initially sold in Florida and ermmm Georgia. And Vermont, with arguably the laxest firearms laws in the nation has a relatively low recovery rate - but they do make the top 15.






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Arrow 32 replies Author Time Post
Reply Interesting ATF Firearms Trace data for 2012 (Original post)
geckosfeet Jun 2013 OP
rdharma Jun 2013 #1
geckosfeet Jun 2013 #3
S_B_Jackson Jun 2013 #17
friendly_iconoclast Jun 2013 #20
CokeMachine Jun 2013 #26
AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #29
gejohnston Jun 2013 #2
rdharma Jun 2013 #4
gejohnston Jun 2013 #5
rdharma Jun 2013 #8
friendly_iconoclast Jun 2013 #21
beevul Jun 2013 #22
CokeMachine Jun 2013 #27
Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #28
geckosfeet Jun 2013 #6
gejohnston Jun 2013 #7
rdharma Jun 2013 #9
gejohnston Jun 2013 #10
rdharma Jun 2013 #11
gejohnston Jun 2013 #13
rdharma Jun 2013 #14
gejohnston Jun 2013 #15
rdharma Jun 2013 #16
gejohnston Jun 2013 #18
friendly_iconoclast Jun 2013 #19
GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #25
AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #30
geckosfeet Jun 2013 #12
ileus Jun 2013 #23
geckosfeet Jun 2013 #24
AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #31
geckosfeet Jun 2013 #32

Response to geckosfeet (Original post)

Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:06 PM

1. Gee! That's s surprise. Most guns are brought in from states with lax gun laws!

 

Who woulda' thunk it?...... Errrrp derrrrrp!

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Response to rdharma (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:08 PM

3. That is precisely what the data do NOT show.

VT - again, arguably laxest in country. Arguments could be made for AZ and TX.

NH fairly lax. Maine, not so lax.

I would call it a combination of proximity and population density more than anything.

I do wonder about Florida and Georgia.

on edit: Oh - and MA - some of the toughest gun laws in the country.

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Response to rdharma (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:48 AM

17. Actually, if you paid a bit more attention you'd find that most guns were purchased in Massachussets

453 to be exact,
then 129 that were originally purchased in New Hampshire,
followed by 72 that were first purchased in Maine....

MA does NOT have what any reasonable person would call, "lax gun laws".

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Response to S_B_Jackson (Reply #17)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 03:21 AM

20. "Factual accuracy is strictly optional for gun control advocates"

Demonstrably as true today as it was when I first said it.

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Response to rdharma (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 09:01 PM

26. Just more flame bait!!

 

Nothing new from from you -- you are a god!!!!!

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Response to rdharma (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:15 AM

29. You might want to get your eyes checked and re-read the chart.

I'll just assume that you made a mistake there, and aren't being intentionally deceptive.

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Response to geckosfeet (Original post)

Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:07 PM

2. average is is over 14 years.

that indicates many are probably stolen from MA gun owners. Not that surprising at all. I saw a video of guns recently taken off of criminals in Chicago. A lot of Ravens and RGs still. The huge plurality still goes to MA.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:13 PM

4. That's from time of original traceable source.

 

And that means what? Criminals aren't buying them direct from the factory and using them the next week for a crime?

Keep diggin' boys!

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Response to rdharma (Reply #4)

Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:16 PM

5. that's the claim about

the so called "iron river."

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #5)

Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:21 PM

8. With no gun registration or private background checks in many cases.......

 

..... this "time to crime" figure is pure meaningless BS!

But I know........ in Japan murder with a bladed weapon is often counted as "suicide"!

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Response to rdharma (Reply #8)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 03:37 AM

21. *All* Massachusetts firearms sales have background checks- no private sales here.

Yet, we still provide most of the crime guns seized here, in spite of all the blather
about iron pipelines.

You and the self-appointed spokesperson for Chicagoans really aren't clear on
the concept of 'verifiable facts', are you?

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #21)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 04:48 AM

22. Thats gonna leave a mark. N/T

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #21)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 09:04 PM

27. It's gotta be tough fishing

 

when the bait has gone bad!! It'll be back with a new hook and fressher bait. Maybe the bansalot group can help find new worms!!

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #21)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 09:10 PM

28. Oh, he just noodlin' around.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:19 PM

6. National average is 11.12 years (at bottom of charts)

I checked a couple other states - the data do vary widely among the few I looked at.

on edit: Check out AZ for example. Very different patterns than MA and NH.

edit again - Florida had 17,000 traces - as in many of the states the majority of the traces were done for possession.

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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #6)

Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:21 PM

7. MA is 14

but yes the national average is 11.12

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #7)

Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:23 PM

9. Meaningless without a UNIVERSAL required record of transfer for tracing! nt

 

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Response to rdharma (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:26 PM

10. The whole thing is pretty meaningless anyway

other than identify who it was ripped off from. Most of the time they can do it now by running it through NCIC.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #10)

Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:33 PM

11. With the lax ownership/transfer laws currently on the books...... yes.... pretty meaningless!

 

But if we registered our guns, the Cubans might grab them when they invade in the "Red Dawn" scenario.

Or ............ is it the North Koreans now?

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Response to rdharma (Reply #11)

Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:37 PM

13. IIRC, the Soviets got them from 4473s

but realistically, what exactly has it done anywhere? Other than providing a few jobs to run it, it actually doesn't do anything. There is no evidence it has done anything other than make politicians feel good.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #13)

Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:47 PM

14. What a hokey bunch of BS that movie was!

 

"Wolverines"!

Airborne invasion to capture the small town square state town folk and intern them in the football stadium! That's the ticket!

Gun nuts are paranoid and NUTZ!

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Response to rdharma (Reply #14)

Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:58 PM

15. unless there was something stratigic about that town

like a place to land large cargo planes like the Andropov. IIRC, there was a rail yard. But they would have to control everything going to the coast to move stuff. Of course establishing an airhead in Colorado would get the planners fired, given the knowledge that farmers would, and could under the Geneva Convention, use them for target practice.
The characterization was pretty cliched.
It's depiction of the regional culture was bullshit

The re education camp was actually the best part. Not that is saying much.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #15)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:02 AM

16. Sorry! There was NOTHING believable in that crappy film. nt

 

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Response to rdharma (Reply #16)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:00 AM

18. Aww come on

I bet you have every line memorized and cried when the fighter pilot got killed.
Oh yeah, AF fighter pilots remove their patches and name tags when flying in battle. The Col wouldn't be wearing the "Eagle Driver" patch either.
http://www.cracked.com/article_18812_5-reasons-red-dawn-secretly-subversive-anti-war-film.html

But then, art very rarely imitates life.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #18)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 03:19 AM

19. Be kind- they've got a lot of time on their hands now that school's out...

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Response to rdharma (Reply #16)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:10 PM

25. That is one of the few things we can agree on. N/T

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Response to rdharma (Reply #14)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:19 AM

30. You realize the movie is intended as an anti-war piece, and the makers are probably pretty

horrified that it was glorified in the manner it was by pop culture, right?

Remember how most of the good guys die badly? Those left are dripping blood? They encounter one of the top bad guys, and neither side kills the other out of respect/horror for the things that have been done up to that point?

It's a pretty good movie if you pay attention.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #10)

Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:33 PM

12. Well. The ATF seems to think it means something. Not sure exactly what.

The variation from state to state is interesting though...

NY kind of shows that iron pipe line a little. Lots of first sales all the way down the east coast.

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Response to geckosfeet (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 06:48 AM

23. Gee! That's s surprise. Most guns were brought in from MASS!

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Response to ileus (Reply #23)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 08:19 AM

24. The case with all the state data that I have looked at so far.

The 'home' state has the highest number of original retail sales for guns being traced. In other words the lions share of the source of original retail sale are from inside the state. Makes sense.

It is also interesting to look at the variation in the number and source of guns coming from outside for the different states. It varies quite a bit across the country.

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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #24)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:20 AM

31. So much for the 'iron river' meme.

Washington State didn't even rate a mention.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #31)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:24 AM

32. The only state where that looks at all like it might be factor is NY.

They have an unusual amount of first sales coming from east coast states.

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