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geckosfeet

(9,644 posts)
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:01 PM Jun 2013

Interesting ATF Firearms Trace data for 2012

Firearms Trace Data 2012


All reports are in pdf format. I took a couple screenshots from the MA report.

Interesting that more traces were done because of possession charges than all other causes combined.
Most weapons that were traced were originally sold over three years before being used in a crime.
As I would expect, a lot firearms that were initially sold in NH and Maine. People move here or sell firearms to people who live here (in MA). What I wouldn't expect is the high rate of recovery of firearms initially sold in Florida and ermmm Georgia. And Vermont, with arguably the laxest firearms laws in the nation has a relatively low recovery rate - but they do make the top 15.






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Interesting ATF Firearms Trace data for 2012 (Original Post) geckosfeet Jun 2013 OP
Gee! That's s surprise. Most guns are brought in from states with lax gun laws! rdharma Jun 2013 #1
That is precisely what the data do NOT show. geckosfeet Jun 2013 #3
Actually, if you paid a bit more attention you'd find that most guns were purchased in Massachussets S_B_Jackson Jun 2013 #17
"Factual accuracy is strictly optional for gun control advocates" friendly_iconoclast Jun 2013 #20
Just more flame bait!! CokeMachine Jun 2013 #26
You might want to get your eyes checked and re-read the chart. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #29
average is is over 14 years. gejohnston Jun 2013 #2
That's from time of original traceable source. rdharma Jun 2013 #4
that's the claim about gejohnston Jun 2013 #5
With no gun registration or private background checks in many cases....... rdharma Jun 2013 #8
*All* Massachusetts firearms sales have background checks- no private sales here. friendly_iconoclast Jun 2013 #21
Thats gonna leave a mark. N/T beevul Jun 2013 #22
It's gotta be tough fishing CokeMachine Jun 2013 #27
Oh, he just noodlin' around. Eleanors38 Jun 2013 #28
National average is 11.12 years (at bottom of charts) geckosfeet Jun 2013 #6
MA is 14 gejohnston Jun 2013 #7
Meaningless without a UNIVERSAL required record of transfer for tracing! nt rdharma Jun 2013 #9
The whole thing is pretty meaningless anyway gejohnston Jun 2013 #10
With the lax ownership/transfer laws currently on the books...... yes.... pretty meaningless! rdharma Jun 2013 #11
IIRC, the Soviets got them from 4473s gejohnston Jun 2013 #13
What a hokey bunch of BS that movie was! rdharma Jun 2013 #14
unless there was something stratigic about that town gejohnston Jun 2013 #15
Sorry! There was NOTHING believable in that crappy film. nt rdharma Jun 2013 #16
Aww come on gejohnston Jun 2013 #18
Be kind- they've got a lot of time on their hands now that school's out... friendly_iconoclast Jun 2013 #19
That is one of the few things we can agree on. N/T GreenStormCloud Jun 2013 #25
You realize the movie is intended as an anti-war piece, and the makers are probably pretty AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #30
Well. The ATF seems to think it means something. Not sure exactly what. geckosfeet Jun 2013 #12
Gee! That's s surprise. Most guns were brought in from MASS! ileus Jun 2013 #23
The case with all the state data that I have looked at so far. geckosfeet Jun 2013 #24
So much for the 'iron river' meme. AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #31
The only state where that looks at all like it might be factor is NY. geckosfeet Jun 2013 #32
 

rdharma

(6,057 posts)
1. Gee! That's s surprise. Most guns are brought in from states with lax gun laws!
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:06 PM
Jun 2013

Who woulda' thunk it?...... Errrrp derrrrrp!

geckosfeet

(9,644 posts)
3. That is precisely what the data do NOT show.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:08 PM
Jun 2013

VT - again, arguably laxest in country. Arguments could be made for AZ and TX.

NH fairly lax. Maine, not so lax.

I would call it a combination of proximity and population density more than anything.

I do wonder about Florida and Georgia.

on edit: Oh - and MA - some of the toughest gun laws in the country.

S_B_Jackson

(906 posts)
17. Actually, if you paid a bit more attention you'd find that most guns were purchased in Massachussets
Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:48 AM
Jun 2013

453 to be exact,
then 129 that were originally purchased in New Hampshire,
followed by 72 that were first purchased in Maine....

MA does NOT have what any reasonable person would call, "lax gun laws".

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
20. "Factual accuracy is strictly optional for gun control advocates"
Mon Jun 24, 2013, 03:21 AM
Jun 2013

Demonstrably as true today as it was when I first said it.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
29. You might want to get your eyes checked and re-read the chart.
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:15 AM
Jun 2013

I'll just assume that you made a mistake there, and aren't being intentionally deceptive.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
2. average is is over 14 years.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:07 PM
Jun 2013

that indicates many are probably stolen from MA gun owners. Not that surprising at all. I saw a video of guns recently taken off of criminals in Chicago. A lot of Ravens and RGs still. The huge plurality still goes to MA.

 

rdharma

(6,057 posts)
4. That's from time of original traceable source.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:13 PM
Jun 2013

And that means what? Criminals aren't buying them direct from the factory and using them the next week for a crime?

Keep diggin' boys!

 

rdharma

(6,057 posts)
8. With no gun registration or private background checks in many cases.......
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:21 PM
Jun 2013

..... this "time to crime" figure is pure meaningless BS!

But I know........ in Japan murder with a bladed weapon is often counted as "suicide"!

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
21. *All* Massachusetts firearms sales have background checks- no private sales here.
Mon Jun 24, 2013, 03:37 AM
Jun 2013

Yet, we still provide most of the crime guns seized here, in spite of all the blather
about iron pipelines.

You and the self-appointed spokesperson for Chicagoans really aren't clear on
the concept of 'verifiable facts', are you?

 

CokeMachine

(1,018 posts)
27. It's gotta be tough fishing
Mon Jun 24, 2013, 09:04 PM
Jun 2013

when the bait has gone bad!! It'll be back with a new hook and fressher bait. Maybe the bansalot group can help find new worms!!

geckosfeet

(9,644 posts)
6. National average is 11.12 years (at bottom of charts)
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:19 PM
Jun 2013

I checked a couple other states - the data do vary widely among the few I looked at.

on edit: Check out AZ for example. Very different patterns than MA and NH.

edit again - Florida had 17,000 traces - as in many of the states the majority of the traces were done for possession.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
10. The whole thing is pretty meaningless anyway
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:26 PM
Jun 2013

other than identify who it was ripped off from. Most of the time they can do it now by running it through NCIC.

 

rdharma

(6,057 posts)
11. With the lax ownership/transfer laws currently on the books...... yes.... pretty meaningless!
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:33 PM
Jun 2013

But if we registered our guns, the Cubans might grab them when they invade in the "Red Dawn" scenario.

Or ............ is it the North Koreans now?

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
13. IIRC, the Soviets got them from 4473s
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:37 PM
Jun 2013

but realistically, what exactly has it done anywhere? Other than providing a few jobs to run it, it actually doesn't do anything. There is no evidence it has done anything other than make politicians feel good.

 

rdharma

(6,057 posts)
14. What a hokey bunch of BS that movie was!
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:47 PM
Jun 2013

"Wolverines"!

Airborne invasion to capture the small town square state town folk and intern them in the football stadium! That's the ticket!

Gun nuts are paranoid and NUTZ!

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
15. unless there was something stratigic about that town
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:58 PM
Jun 2013

like a place to land large cargo planes like the Andropov. IIRC, there was a rail yard. But they would have to control everything going to the coast to move stuff. Of course establishing an airhead in Colorado would get the planners fired, given the knowledge that farmers would, and could under the Geneva Convention, use them for target practice.
The characterization was pretty cliched.
It's depiction of the regional culture was bullshit

The re education camp was actually the best part. Not that is saying much.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
18. Aww come on
Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:00 AM
Jun 2013

I bet you have every line memorized and cried when the fighter pilot got killed.
Oh yeah, AF fighter pilots remove their patches and name tags when flying in battle. The Col wouldn't be wearing the "Eagle Driver" patch either.
http://www.cracked.com/article_18812_5-reasons-red-dawn-secretly-subversive-anti-war-film.html

But then, art very rarely imitates life.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
30. You realize the movie is intended as an anti-war piece, and the makers are probably pretty
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:19 AM
Jun 2013

horrified that it was glorified in the manner it was by pop culture, right?

Remember how most of the good guys die badly? Those left are dripping blood? They encounter one of the top bad guys, and neither side kills the other out of respect/horror for the things that have been done up to that point?

It's a pretty good movie if you pay attention.

geckosfeet

(9,644 posts)
12. Well. The ATF seems to think it means something. Not sure exactly what.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:33 PM
Jun 2013

The variation from state to state is interesting though...

NY kind of shows that iron pipe line a little. Lots of first sales all the way down the east coast.

geckosfeet

(9,644 posts)
24. The case with all the state data that I have looked at so far.
Mon Jun 24, 2013, 08:19 AM
Jun 2013

The 'home' state has the highest number of original retail sales for guns being traced. In other words the lions share of the source of original retail sale are from inside the state. Makes sense.

It is also interesting to look at the variation in the number and source of guns coming from outside for the different states. It varies quite a bit across the country.

geckosfeet

(9,644 posts)
32. The only state where that looks at all like it might be factor is NY.
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:24 AM
Jun 2013

They have an unusual amount of first sales coming from east coast states.

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