Well, it finally happened. My anti-gun girlfriend has decided to buy a gun and get a concealed carry

[shadowrider]

permit. I didn't prod her into it, didn't force her into it, didn't even talk about it. It just happened.

I think it's a wonderful idea.

I work out of town and the house is rather remotely located. We've been there 13 years with nary an incident, but recently two things have happened nearby which have convinced her she needs some protection and I wholeheartedly agree.

She'll be attending several classes regarding gun/CCW laws, handling, dis-assembly, re-assembly, and range time. A total of about 10 hours worth. There will be 4/5 different types of weapons for the class to fire to see what they're most comfortable with.

This gives us something else to do together.

I can't wait.

[Buzz Clik]

1. Kewl. You can conceal your guns together. Ain't love grand?

[wercal]

2. Prepare to be labeled with a broad brush

When they call her a gun nut, keep in mind some other gun nuts that have been in the news:

Diane Feinstein - used to have a concealed carry permit

Barack Obama - seen in photos shooting skeet

Joe Biden - says he owns a double barrel shotgun

Bill Clinton - Often went duck hunting while president

[shadowrider]

3. No worries. I've been here quite a while and have been called every name in the book.

I simply chuckle.

[CreekDog]

71. you may have been called names, but not to worry, nobody ever called you "liberal"

since the only issue you've posted on in quite a while is guns and to the right of the party and president.

[shadowrider]

73. In your opinion, everybody who posts pro-gun is to the "right" of the party and the president

I don't expect to be treated any differently from the self-appointed monitor of all thing Democratic.

[Niceguy1]

4. your are lucky.

I wish my girlfriend would go to fhe range with me

[Common Sense Party]

28. My wife went with me once. She shot better than me.

Now I don't take her anymore.

[upaloopa]

5. I always wonder when I hear about someone

who gets a gun for protection for the first time.
What possible future outcomes do you accept could happen as a result of having this gun? Or put another way, how much risk do you see you are taking on if any?

[shadowrider]

7. I've had a long talk with her and we're both well aware of the risks. n/t

[upaloopa]

9. I am not opposed to what you both are doing.

I have a gun. My wife hates guns. We haven't talked much about it. I keep a lock on it and the cylinder removed.
So in a way you two are ahead of us since we don't talk about it.
We both (wife and I ) respect each other's individualism.

[shadowrider]

10. Which is why I'm proud she made this decision on her own.

I respect her individualism which is why I never tried to force this on her. She came to her own decision.

[upaloopa]

11. Well glad there are people like us

[corkhead]

6. The odds just went up tremendously that she'll use a gun on you.

[shadowrider]

8. Not quite but thanks for playing. I work 400 miles away.

I appreciate the hide thingy..

[HockeyMom]

12. I cannot count the times I have been all alone

in NYC (young, single, alone, living a basement apartment, then and alone with young child while husband travelled), on Long Island alone with school age children while he travelled, alone for 3 years when he lived in another state, and now as an old woman in Florida around all the gun nuts while he still travels on business.

Yes, my husband can "protect" me with his guns, IF he could manage to run and get them at his age. Me when I am alone, do not know the combination to the safe, or how to use them. Yeah, I am TERRIFIED to be all alone. Try again.

My husband with his guns lives in fear. I haven't in 64 years, and never will.

You can talk all you want about protection, but it really is all about FEAR.

Edit: I wonder how many of these women would work overnight shift totally alone in a group home in 5 mentally imparied MEN, without their GUNS??? None, I would guess. They, and they guns, would also be fired, if not arrested.

[shadowrider]

13. Your choice is your choice and I don't begrudge you that. Our choice (now) is our choice

you went one way, we're going another.

It's all good.

[CokeMachine]

14. You do know that

not every choice others make is not about you??

[HockeyMom]

16. I try to understand the FEAR

all gun owners, not the hunters, have. I just plain cannot understand it. Why????

[Jenoch]

17. Do you really

believe ALL gun owners have guns out of fear? That's a broading brush you have there.


(Apparently you except hunters from this generalization but I don't know why.)

[rl6214]

19. Typical anti gun talking point, dontchaknow.

[Jenoch]

22. I was attempting to

start a real discussion with HockeyMom about guns and the reasons people own them.

[rl6214]

45. From what I have seen

That sort of discussion would be wasted on her but I applaud the attempt. She harbors serious contempt for her husband and his guns.

[CokeMachine]

24. You seem to have the fear?

What are you a-feard of? That's all

[Eleanors38]

39. I and most if my friends don't live in fear...

Perhaps this is projection by those who fear guns, or at a minimum, ignorance concerning the gun-owning public. It is hard to answer your question since I don't experience this socio-psychological phenomenon which you describe.

[Lizzie Poppet]

43. Don't plant that axiom too deep!

And don't over-water...

[kudzu22]

47. do you have a fire extinguisher?

are you afraid your house will burn down? We don't own these things out of fear. We own them because we might need them someday.

[jmg257]

48. Wait - you do not own a fire extinguisher because you are afraid of a fire, you own it because???

You use it to smash locks with?
You like the color red?
You like having cans of pressurized gas stored under the sink?

I never understood this explanation. Of course I install smoke detectors cause I am afraid of getting caught asleep in a fire. Of course I carry a spare tire cause I am afraid of getting a flat. Of course I put my kids in a baby seats cause we were afraid of getting in a car accident. CO2 detector is not there for looks. Neither is the fence around the pool, or the lifeguards at the ocean.

'Being prepared' is because we are afraid something negative just might happen. Otherwise - why bother?

So, of course I would have a gun in the home for defense if I was afraid someone would try to break into my house and thought that the best protection. of course I would carry a concealed gun because I was afraid of being a victim. What the hell other reason is there - I like the weight on my hip?

[HockeyMom]

50. No fire extinguishers

or smoke alarms in the house. Not going to happen. Only an armed intruder coming inside.

[Jenoch]

69. Wait a minute...

I can understand your aversion to guns. Why do you have a problem with fire extinguishers and smoke detectors? If you are afraid of those, a carbon monoxide detector must put you in mortal fear.

[HockeyMom]

70. I am not

My husband is more in fear of an armed intruder than a fire.

[Jenoch]

72. What does that have to do with your

stated reluctance to have a fire extinguisher and smoke detectors?

[rl6214]

62. You shouldn't live in fear

Maybe you should see someone about all of these fears you have, it doesn't seem normal.

[jmg257]

68. No worries. A little fear is a good thing. Causes people to do all sorts of smart things,

Last edited Mon May 13, 2013, 02:23 PM - Edit history (1)

and causes us to avoid all kinds of stupid shit.

Hmm...its the ones who don't fear enough that should have us worried. Seems they would attract 'accidents', and subject others to unwarranted dangers they could better prevent or avoid with a little thought and less ignorance.

[HockeyMom]

49. No

I don't have a fire extinguisher.

[armueller2001]

61. smoke alarm?

Home insurance? Seat belts? First aid kit? ...... Paranoia rears its ugly head in many forms, not just guns

[HockeyMom]

67. No smoke alarm

Yes, home insurance (mandated). Seat belts come with the car. First Aid Kit, Yes and no since I am certified. My feeling is that the guns in the home are more important than anything else.

[rl6214]

18. As usual with your posts I will call BS

"My husband with his guns lives in fear".

[jimmy the one]

15. gunnut frauds

wercal (156 posts) Prepare to be labeled with a broad brush .. When they call her a gun nut, keep in mind some other gun nuts that have been in the news:
Diane Feinstein - used to have a concealed carry permit
Barack Obama - seen in photos shooting skeet
Joe Biden - says he owns a double barrel shotgun
Bill Clinton - Often went duck hunting while president

And they've all been mocked or called frauds by the gun lobby including the nra, so did you have a point? (Toss in John Kerry as well). How many of them have shot their lawyer friends while out shooting caged & just released pheasants? (I heard cheney afterwards switched to fishing in a stocked barrel).
They are not gunnuts, for if they were, the nra would be so proud protecting them & praising them for their law abidingness gunownering blam blamming.

If diane feinstein had a concealed carry permit it was probably under 'may issue' statutes, where she surely could have demonstrated need, with ample threats of physical harm to her person from other real gunnuts.

.. just curious & not wanting to infringe on anyone's second amendmentness, but does the new ccw gal have one of those life alert (quick alert) button-phones? does she have a bullet vest? both of which would probably do more good than carrying a loaded pistol about, which being a novice might precipitate greater problems than she could handle if & when.
And dead bolts & window bars.

[Jenoch]

20. I'm not defending

Cheney, but it was a quail hunt, not pheasants.

It Ed Schultz who shot and killed his own dog while pheasant hunting.

[bahrbearian]

34. While I've been searching for "Ed Shultz shot his dog"

and even snopes doesn't list that . I was able to find it at the Free Republic is that your link?

[Jenoch]

35. No. I don't have a current link.

When it happened Ed was a sportscaster at a TV station in Fargo. It was fairly big news at the time although it was quite some time ago. I'm in Minnesota.

[bahrbearian]

36. Ya, I'm from Fargo never heard that story

I also saw on the Freep Republic that he beat his wife is that true? I've never heard those stories, and would really like a source.

[Jenoch]

37. I have a brother in Moorhead.

The hunting thing happened when Ed lived in DL. Ed had some sort of altercation with his wife (not Wendy). Both of these happend a long time ago so it is unliky to find a legitimate 'news' soirce although there are a lot more sites other than FreeRepublic that mention it.

[gejohnston]

21. you actually don't have to demostrate need in may issue states

If diane feinstein had a concealed carry permit it was probably under 'may issue' statutes, where she surely could have demonstrated need, with ample threats of physical harm to her person from other real gunnuts.

It wasn't "gun nuts". It was the 1970s left wing terrorist group New World Liberation Front. If she were an average person with the same or greater need, she may not have received one.

although the law kind of says it, but that is not how it works in reality. Some states, and some counties in those states, are defacto shall issue. Others, like NYC, freely give them out to very wealthy individuals without need, but denies them to average people with need.
It is also an arbitrary and subjective determination. Such things have no place in a liberal democracy.
All phones have a "quick alert". Usually by having 911 on speed dial.

[CokeMachine]

25. Do you have a caps key?

Diane Feinstein is a proper noun. I have to knock you at least 10 points for something. How's your score in class for you're internet posting abilities? If nothing else I get all the fiber I need from your posts. Do you know G4A by any chance??

Have a good night!!

[jimmy the one]

33. eat at jerry's

Do you have a caps key?

[Eleanors38]

40. Damn that sandwich does look good.

[rl6214]

63. It's 'your' Internet posting abilities.

Not "you're", that's short for you are. Did you actually mean to say 'how's your score in class for you are Internet posting abilities'?

And as far as the Diane Finestein comment, that was a direct copy and paste from a previous poster. If you have an issue with it you should address the original poster, jimmythewhateverhisnameis.

[CokeMachine]

65. Huh??

I was responding to the original poster (jimmythewhateverhisnameis). Please check again -- am I missing something?? My bad on the You're vs. Your thingy.

[shadowrider]

44. Well, my response is

I'm simply not going to go into detail, on an anonymous chat board with someone I don't know, exactly what kind of defensive measures are in place in addition to the gun. I've explained to her time and again, a gun is a defensive measure of last resort.

Can you also explain to me how deadbolts and window bars protect her when she's making a business deposit about 6 p.m. every night at the local ATM?

[ileus]

23. My wife made the same decision last year

Along with several CPS and fellow clinic workers.

She bought the best handgun for her and has taken the time to train and learn about proper CC responsibility.

My children depend on her and at least she doesn't have to be a willing victim when I'm out of town or they're out without me.

Safety first and carry on.

[dkf]

26. Choice works for guns and abortion.

Works for me.

[MannyGoldstein]

27. I hope you both stay safe

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17922-carrying-a-gun-increases-risk-of-getting-shot-and-killed.html

[gejohnston]

29. the major flaw in that study

is that most if not all of those murdered were carrying illegally and involved in criminal activity. The study is based on the flawed premise that MDs can do a criminology study by treating guns as an infectious disease. The logic being a gun, and inanimate object, can attract violent attacks. That frankly, strikes me somewhere between alchemy and creation science on the absurdity level.

http://www.guncite.com/journals/tennmed.html

[Eleanors38]

41. "...repulsive, anti-social health hazard:" Nice way to insure unbiased research.

[kudzu22]

38. Again with the correlational BS

The article itself says, "While it may be that the type of people who carry firearms are simply more likely to get shot..." Ya think? Maybe people who are likely to be shot are more likely to carry a gun for protection?

This type of correlational study tells us nothing about causality, but people like to assume it does if it fits their agenda. If you applied the same type of logic to hair loss you would conclude that toupees increase the risk of baldness.

[Eleanors38]

42. IIRC, 70+% of homicides are committed by veteran felons.

[GreenStormCloud]

46. That study has been debunked

Gun controllers love to trot out so-called scientific studies that show that carrying a gun makes one more likely to get shot.

Common sense says that is pure bullshit. Guns are not bullet magnets. Bullets don't curve in mid-air to go to a person carrying concealed. Thugs don't hunt for concealed carriers to shoot them on sight. You don't get shot because you have a hidden gun on you.

The ONLY reason why a person might get shot is that they are engaging in a behavior that will cause someone to want to shoot them, or they have the bad luck to be a victim of a random shooter or other criminal. (Examples of the latter would be mass shootings, serial shootings, gang initiation shootings, etc.) Merely carrying a concealed handgun will not make someone a target as nobody knows that you have the gun, therefore you can't be targeted for having a gun.

So the real question that should be asked is not if the person had a gun, but what were they doing when they were shot? It is well known from FBI statistics that over half of all murder victims were themselves engaged in a criminal enterprise. But criminals do not make up over half of our population, so one draws the reasonable conclusion the being a criminal is dangerous. Certain crimes would be more dangerous than others. Drug dealing and gang banging would be more dangerous than being a business embezzler. The dangerous criminals are well aware that they are targets for other criminals and are extremely likely to be armed. Naturally, those who style of crime is armed robbery are going to be armed. All of them will be engaging in behaviors that have a high risk of drawing gun fire, either from other criminals or from armed citizens.

The law-abiding person who is legally carrying will not be engaging in any of those activities. His behavior won't change (with very rare exception) from what it was before. So he won't be a target unless his luck runs out and a violent criminal targets him. Then his gun gives him the ability to fight back.

None of the so-called studies have ever made any attempt to separate the legal from the illegal carriers but instead have lumped them all together as if they were all legal carriers. Until a study makes such a differentiation they will all be useless and will discover nothing except that being a violent criminal is dangerous.

[Cronus Protagonist]

31. Cool!

What could go wrong?

[DesertFlower]

32. good for her. i own one for personal protection.

if someone gets past my security system i wouldn't hesitate to use it. i'm alone too, but even before my husband died there were times when he had to travel for work. he owned one too.

even with the security system by the time the sheriff would get here it would be too late.

[Walk away]

52. "Yee Haw! I'm so happy my girlfriend is so terrified that she had to...

give up her beliefs and buy a gun! I'm sure glad there were incidents in my remote area!"

Let this be a lesson to all men who want their wives and girlfriends to tote guns around with them. Move them someplace out of the way, scare the shit out of them and leave them alone for awhile. You'll soon wake up to your own personal Annie Oakley!

[shadowrider]

54. Your comment is beneath contempt n/t

[CokeMachine]

58. Are you a member of MRA???

Your post sounds a bit misogynistic. Poor girlfriend can't make her own choices? Maybe I missed something?

[Saturday]

53. Just make sure you never come home unexpected...

late at night. Seriously.

[shadowrider]

55. I always make a quick call before i turn in the drive to let her know the lights she sees is me n/t

[Eleanors38]

56. Such common precautions slip by them like cats' feet in the fog

[oneshooter]

57. Sounds to me like she thought about it long and hard.

Before she came to a decision. hat is as it should be. Get some training, lots of practice, and lots of patience. Maybe, just maybe, she will like one of your firearms and then tell you" Hon, you are going to have to buy yourself another gun, this one is MINE.

[shadowrider]

59. She did.

She used to be so anti-gun she'd have fit in at the echo chamber but her attitude slowly changed over a couple of years and I had nothing to do with it.

As far as her wanting one of my guns, don't think that'll happen. She wants conceal carry and mine, although sub-compacts, would be a little large. She's thinking revolver but won't know until she actually fires several different models.

[jimmy the one]

60. you opened the door

shadowrider: Well, my response is I'm simply not going to go into detail, on an anonymous chat board with someone I don't know, exactly what kind of defensive measures are in place in addition to the gun.

Yet you had no problems with telling anonymous readers in the OP that your girlfriend was training for a ccw permit, YOU opened the door to discussion.
You use a pseudonym which is protected from disclosure (of real info), it's unrealistic to think anything of value could be gleaned from your msg bd chatter by someone criminally minded. Such as 'life alert' buttons, which tend a tad quicker than cell phones, but what serious criminal doesn't already take into account cell phones or silent alerts?
Revealing possession of a bullet vest would work both ways, tending to subdue criminal intent when it's realized a person is both wearing one & carrying a pistol. I've 'discussed' the gun issue for 15 yrs & only twice have come across gunnuts owning a bullet vest, & only one of them wore it frequently, the other rarely. How come if you all are so ascared of hell bent thugs getting the jump on you, you only rely on an after the fact reactionary measure when you have a preemptive bullet vest as quite affordable protection? ($100-200 used).
Often the best advantage a criminal has is that of surprise, & a bullet vest helps compensate for that as well as bolstering mental fortitude if & when.

Can you also explain to me how deadbolts and window bars protect her when she's making a business deposit about 6 p.m. every night at the local ATM?

Uh, they wouldn't, they'd only protect people at home, in their house. Duh. Where someone could run into if they were threatened outside.

I've explained to her time and again, a gun is a defensive measure of last resort.

Subjective, the road to hell is lined with good intentions, the saying goes.

[rl6214]

64. You can easily carry and conceal a gun regardless of the weather

The same can not be said of a bullet proof vest.

[shadowrider]

66. The door was opened to talk about ccw and an anti-gun person changing their mind

NOT defensive measures taken around the house.

[HockeyMom]

74. Married almost 40 years

I don't like GOLF either. Does that mean I have to play golf because HE likes to? I like going ghost hunting. He doesn't. Should I stop because HE doesn't like that?

Give each other your own space to pursue your own interests, and that INCLUDES guns, hunting, etc. We are not CLONES of each other.