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Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:21 AM

Moms have had enough; call for gun regulations

On Dec. 14, the horrific slaughter of 20 defenseless 6- and 7-year-olds stirred something in all of us. Mothers and fathers across the country grieved with the families of Newtown, Conn. We were stunned, shocked, deeply saddened and, most important, moved to change.

One Million Moms for Gun Control was founded by a Zionsville mother, Shannon Watts, the day after the Newtown massacre. In a few weeks, our ranks swelled to 70,000 members, with the potential to reach 80 million mothers nationwide. We have traditionally remained quiet in the discussion regarding gun control, but no longer. We are changed. We are strong. We are speaking out.

Every day in the United States, 270 people are shot, including 47 children. Of the 270, 87 die. Every year almost 100,000 people and 20,000 children in America are shot; 31,000 die from their wounds, including 3,000 children. We have had enough. The time has come for change.

A recent poll estimated that more than 90 percent of Americans, including gun owners, overwhelmingly support universal background checks. The National Rifle Association opposes this because, as Wayne LaPierre, its spokesman, says, “criminals won’t submit to a background check.” Since when was the fact that criminals break laws a reason for not having any? This logic is flawed. The fact is that laws reduce death, period.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20130224/OPINION/302240011/Moms-had-enough-call-gun-regulations

33 replies, 2456 views

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Arrow 33 replies Author Time Post
Reply Moms have had enough; call for gun regulations (Original post)
SecularMotion Feb 2013 OP
cantbeserious Feb 2013 #1
holdencaufield Feb 2013 #2
DrDan Feb 2013 #3
Clames Feb 2013 #4
oneshooter Feb 2013 #16
ileus Feb 2013 #5
Duckhunter935 Feb 2013 #6
discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2013 #7
DrDan Feb 2013 #8
gejohnston Feb 2013 #10
DrDan Feb 2013 #12
gejohnston Feb 2013 #14
discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2013 #19
DrDan Feb 2013 #24
discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2013 #25
DrDan Feb 2013 #26
discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2013 #27
holdencaufield Feb 2013 #28
discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2013 #29
holdencaufield Feb 2013 #30
discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2013 #31
holdencaufield Feb 2013 #32
discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2013 #33
guardian Feb 2013 #9
Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2013 #11
DrDan Feb 2013 #13
Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2013 #15
DrDan Feb 2013 #18
Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2013 #21
spin Feb 2013 #17
DonP Feb 2013 #20
jimmy the one Feb 2013 #22
discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2013 #23

Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 06:58 AM

1. Yes - Go Moms Go - America's Depraved Gun Culture Must End

eom

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:18 AM

2. My Mum ...

 

... bought me my first Daisy BB Gun.

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:15 AM

3. My Mum . . .

did not allow us to have daisy bb-guns

she was a wise woman - and would have proudly joined and supported this effort

just contributed to the "Dad's Chapter" of the org in her honor

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:18 AM

4. My mom...

 

...is taking a handgun basic safety course next month.

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Response to Clames (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 11:16 AM

16. Mom had a Texas CHL for 10 years.

She enjoyed going to the range and was a fine shot with a AR-15. She enjoyed going hunting and fishing. Her and Dad gave me my first "real" rifle when I was 10. I still have that rifle and used it to teach all three of my sons, and one granddaughter.

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)


Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 09:10 AM

6. My mom

Has several weapons

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 09:53 AM

7. I used CDC statistics

...and totaled firearm deaths for accidents, suicides and assaults for 2008. The total is 364 for those under 15 years of age.
Where is that 3,000 number coming from?

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:27 AM

8. did the article state "children under 15"?

or was that your criteria . . . for whatever purpose

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Response to DrDan (Reply #8)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:46 AM

10. that is the definition of child

most places it is defined as under 12 with adolescent making up the difference.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:52 AM

12. you really should alert the U.N. - they consider a child to be ". . . under the age of eighteen"

of course, that would make your statistics look bad . . . wouldn't it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Rights_of_the_Child

there is not a single definition of a "child", and we both know that.

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Response to DrDan (Reply #12)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:57 AM

14. good for them

the Brady Campaign sometimes puts the age at 24.

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Response to DrDan (Reply #8)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 11:55 AM

19. The article did nothing...

...to actually inform. My youngest "child" is 24. My mother's youngest "child" is over 50.
An article whose intent was to actually be informative would use deterministic language.

Quoting these tired pieces does more to impune the source than I would feel the need to. Because pro-control resorts to this type of misinformation campaign really undermines any trust that might be given it.

It's one of the many impediments to progress on the issue.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #19)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 03:49 PM

24. the message is clear - whether child deaths are measured until

age 15, 18 or 20. Too many "children" are dying due to the ubiquity of guns.

Does it really matter if there are 3,000, 2,000 or 700? This distraction is nothing but an NRA tactic to deflect the argument that too many are dying.

Would you really argue otherwise - that there are not too many?

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Response to DrDan (Reply #24)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 04:01 PM

25. Does it really matter?

One child dying is too many.

Characterizing my highlighting a lie as an NRA tactic is just another lie. The NRA didn't help me. I'm not a member; I don't read their data or site. The only thing I've seen from the NRA in years was a recording of Wayne's remarks which were posted here by a pro-control person.

Evil will flourish when the good fail to recognize the truth. A lie is a lie and helps no one's cause.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #25)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 04:06 PM

26. who characterized your highlighting as a "lie" - don't believe I did

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Response to DrDan (Reply #26)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 04:51 PM

27. You didn't. Sorry if you inferred that.

Specifically, I said that "Characterizing my highlighting a lie as an NRA tactic IS just another lie." I'm unhappy to have my opinions falsely attributed and then dismissed.

It's fine if you want to think I'm a distraction. Just realize that it's insulting to have your beliefs reduced to the equivalent a copy and paste from somewhere else. I'm certain from what I said in post #7 that it is plain that I did some research and that my data clearly conflicts with the claim made in the article which was actually copied and pasted in the OP.


In case anyone is wondering if perhaps I've read that the claim about the "3,000" statistic is wrong before, I have for sure. I don't claim this line of thought as mine originally, I can't remember where or who I read said it. I can verify that the 3,000 number is a lie. That's a fact.

I'm certain that most pro-RKBA folks, myself included, believe that any children killed by a firearm due to whatever cause, is too many. Putting out an unsupportable number just smacks of propaganda and impunes the source. Let's agree to discuss based on the truth. You seem like decent and conscientious person. There's no need to defend a lie.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:23 PM

28. I guess everyone is someone's child

 

So, you could say -- if you weren't overly concerned with veracity -- that any death is a child's death.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #28)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 11:09 PM

29. Agreed. And no one should have to grieve for a dead child.

I know how I feel about my children but that's an emotional connection that I have. I'm sure it's common. My reason for expressing that is to illustrate how ambiguous the term "child" is. It is rather suspect to convey a precise statistic reported by a government agency and in the same sentence refer to 19 year olds as "children".

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #29)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:08 AM

30. Are you genuninely unaware ...

 

... of the difference between statistics and empathy?

You can make your point with accurate data or you can make your point with emotional appeals -- you don't really get to do both.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #30)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 09:09 AM

31. In view of...

..."You can make your point with accurate data or you can make your point with emotional appeals -- you don't really get to do both."

That was my point. You just can't throw out a hard number like 3,000 and add to it an emotionally based statement like calling a 19 year old a "child" and expect to be taken seriously.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #31)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:28 PM

32. Misunderstanding on my part ...

 

... I though you were supporting the expanded number by raising the age for a "child"

Mea culpa

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #32)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:35 PM

33. It's all good

Maybe I need a new proofreader.

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:37 AM

9. My mom

 

bought me my first carbine

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:47 AM

11. good for Mommas.

I really like the way they named themselves
One Million Moms for Gun Control

and have 70K members.

Think Big Mommas.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #11)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:54 AM

13. they are on their way . . . and it's scary, isn't it?

actually they are now known as "Moms Demand Action For Gun Sense In America"

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Response to DrDan (Reply #13)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:58 AM

15. are you scared?

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #15)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 11:54 AM

18. nope

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Response to DrDan (Reply #18)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 12:17 PM

21. me either, its all good. here in America

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 11:41 AM

17. My mon stopped a rapist by firing two shots over his head ...

from her tiny S&W LadySmith revolver back in the 1920s. It is possibly the reason she survived to give birth to me.

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 12:04 PM

20. Have they looked into getting a deal on all the leftiover MMM stuff from Brady?

They could probably save a lot of start up money by re-using all the Million Mom March stuff that Brady has in a back room somewhere.

Let's hope this incarnation has a better track record than the original MMM in terms of quality, non-felony membership.

IMHO, they'll thrive as long as someone like the Joyce Foundations funds them.

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 01:58 PM

22. national rifle asso's, & wisqars

Last edited Sun Feb 24, 2013, 03:58 PM - Edit history (2)

discntnt: I used CDC statistics ...and totaled firearm deaths for accidents, suicides and assaults for 2008. The total is 364 for those under 15 years of age.
Where is that 3,000 number coming from?


'Wisqars' (CDC), makes you right (mine from 2010), giving 380 for children 0 thru 14.
It seems the distinction is indeed age, & {edit: million moms grp, not wisqars} is defining children as under 20.
I sorta agree that 'children' should not include 18 & 19 yos, just 17 & under, which would yield 1,300 approx yearly gundeaths from accidents, suicides & homicides.

2010, United States Firearm Deaths All Races, Both Sexes, Ages 0 to 19
Number of
Deaths ..Population
2,711 .....83,267,556 = ('children' <or=19)

http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/dataRestriction_inj.html

(clickon 'I agree' & then at next webpage select 'all intents' and 'firearm' and then in 'custom age range' your age preferences. And then Submit.)

Tuesday Afternoon I really like the way they named themselves One Million Moms for Gun Control and have 70K members.

Kinda like how the NRA touts itself as the national rifle asso when it isnt national just has 4 million members out of ~90 million gun owners, & isn't a rifle asso but a gun association.
NRA only fits the tailing 3rd word, asso's.



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Response to jimmy the one (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 24, 2013, 02:17 PM

23. re: "Kinda like how the NRA touts itself..."

I kinda like how the federal government touts itself and sends ships, drones and soldiers 10,000 miles from the US to kill its enemies.
What would a fitting name really be?

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