Gun Zealots Make Case for Gun Control

[SecularMotion]

One wonders whether the synapses simply fail to connect in the minds of zealots.

First we get a zealot like Scott Roeder who was so consumed with the "right to life" that he murdered Dr. George Tiller.

Then there’s the more recent case of the infamous ex-LAPD officer Christopher Dorner, who told his captive, Jim Reynolds, that he had gone on his murderous rampage because he wanted to clear his name.

Now comes the case of 45-year old Everett Basham, who was so upset with the injustice of new gun safety legislation that he allegedly sent an email to California State Senator Leland Yee (D) threatening to kill him unless Yee "stopped pushing legislation to ban so-called 'bullet buttons,' devices that permit swift reloading of military-style assault weapons by allowing for rapid exchange of ammunition magazines."

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=9873

[iiibbb]

1. How are they making the case for gun control?

I mean... they make a case for their own imprisonment... but what do those 3 morons have to do with me?

[gejohnston]

3. guilt by association

[gejohnston]

2. key word is allgedly

How many did Yee get from PETA?
http://blog.sfgate.com/cityinsider/2011/05/08/leland-yee-opponent-of-shark-fin-ban-voted-for-foie-gras-ban/

Dorner supported stricter gun laws in his in his manifesto, then there is Barbara Graham of MMM fame. Does that mean we should arm ourselves because gun control advocates will violate local gun laws and go on shooting rampages?

[holdencaufield]

4. And lazy, indigent stoners ...

... make the case for drug prohibition. What's your point?


Oh -- by the way, Chris Dorner was a strong supporter of gun control and AWB -- for everyone except himself I'm presuming.

That's like Timothy Leary making an anti-drug PSA.

[SecularMotion]

5. Guns should be as well-regulated as drugs.

Some are available over the counter, others are available only by prescription, and others are illegal altogether.

[holdencaufield]

6. They are, actually

Your argument is ... you think the aspirin and the heroin should both be illegal.

[SecularMotion]

8. Bullshit!

I've never said all guns should be illegal.

Are you arguing that heroin should be in the same category as aspirin?

[holdencaufield]

9. Actually ... yes.

I think drug prohibition is bullshite. What consenting adults put into their body is no one's business but their own -- and that includes soda and trans fats, Mr. Bloomberg.

[iiibbb]

14. Do you think stoners are fetishists?

I mean they're always wrapping their mouths around the bongs...

...and there is lots of creepy stoner art out there.

[gejohnston]

10. do you need a federal license to sell over the counter drugs?

does CVI have to keep a written record of every bottle and box of OTCD is delivered and sold? Does CVI or Walgreens have to report the selling more than one to the DEA? Did you have to go through an FBI background check, in addition to local waiting periods or licensing laws etc, the last time bought Bayer? If the answer is no to any of these questions, guns are more regulated than drugs.

[SecularMotion]

11. Then why aren't guns as child-proof as bottles of aspirin?

[gejohnston]

12. do they sell aspirin safes?

how many kids died because kids thought aspirin was candy, vs thinking a gun was a toy?

[Starboard Tack]

22. Kids without taste buds, maybe.

[iiibbb]

24. You don't have kids apparently.

[Starboard Tack]

27. Several. All grown. All know the difference between aspirin and candy.

[MicaelS]

16. Because firearms are inherently dangerous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_safety

Gun safety training seeks to instill a certain mindset and appropriate habits by following specific rules. The mindset is that firearms are inherently dangerous and must always be stored carefully and handled with care. Handlers are taught to treat firearms with respect for their destructive capabilities, and strongly discouraged from playing or toying with firearms, a common cause of accidents.

The rules of gun safety follow from this mindset. There are many variations, and one of them is the Four Rules introduced by Colonel Jeff Cooper, which are:

All guns are always loaded.
Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

—Jeff Cooper

The NRA provides a similar set of rules:

ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.

—The National Rifle Association, The fundamental NRA rules for safe gun handling

The Canadian Firearms Program uses the concept of The Four Firearm ACTS:

Assume every firearm is loaded.
Control the muzzle direction at all times.
Trigger finger off trigger and out of trigger guard.
See that the firearm is unloaded. PROVE it safe.

—Canadian Firearms Centre, The Four ACTS of Firearm Safety

[tosh]

18. Are you forgetting about the lengthy process

that a drug undergoes to become OTC?

http://www.fda.gov/drugs/developmentapprovalprocess/howdrugsaredevelopedandapproved/approvalapplications/over-the-counterdrugs/default.htm

It is ongoing and ever changing. Recalls, recalls, recalls - many OTC:

http://www.fda.gov/drugs/drugsafety/DrugRecalls/default.htm

AND these regulations are heavily enforced. You'll never hear that old "We don't need new laws, we just need to enforce the ones we have" in this industry.

[Clames]

20. If you had paid attention to the news in recent months...

...then you'd understand how full of shit this statement is:

You'll never hear that old "We don't need new laws, we just need to enforce the ones we have" in this industry. 

Recent compounding pharmacy issue? Rules in place, poorly enforced?

[tosh]

29. Review the case, learn something then back up your snark.

Last edited Fri Feb 22, 2013, 03:05 PM - Edit history (1)

The subject at hand was OTC, compounding is a different beast but nevertheless here's a good start for you.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/molecules-to-medicine/2012/11/15/elections-have-consequences-fungal-meningitis-and-compounding-pharmacies/


<snip>

But, as in keeping with tradition, the main question has been, “Why doesn’t the FDA regulate compounding pharmacies?” The answers are quite peculiar. First, the FDA actually doesn’t appear to have the authority to do so, according to Kevin Outterson, director of the health law program at Boston University. As collateral damage in a 2002 suit, (Thompson vs. Western States Medical Center), in a Supreme Court ruling regarding a pharmaceutical company’s advertising and free speech, the FDA lost much of its regulatory oversight of compounding pharmacies.

While the FDA is being criticized for not providing more oversight, according to Regulatory Focus, “In a case involving Franck’s Pharmacy—the same company whose products were involved in the May 2012 recall—a judge ruled FDA could “not assume it had authority to regulate compounding pharmacies.” Professor Outterson further details how the 2002 Supreme Court ruling hobbled the FDA in a recent New England Journal of Medicine article, concluding, “It’s possible that if the Supreme Court hadn’t struck down Section 503A, the tragedy at NECC could have been averted.”

<snip>

Partisan attacks occurred today targeting Dr. Margaret Hamburg, FDA commissioner, led by Rep. Joe Barton, of Texas. He forgot to mention that many compounding pharmacies and their lobbyists are also based in Texas. According to the NYTimes, Barton “is a top recipient of political donations from the industry” and is described by the compounding academy as a “dedicated” industry advocate…and been outspoken in praising compounding.” The NYTimes also notes that in 2003 ex-Rep. Tom DeLay, also from Texas, helped kill a Medicare bill regulating compounding, saying that regulating them should be left to the states.

Efforts have been made to regulate the industry, including the Safe Drug Compound Act of 2007, proposed by Senator Edward M. Kennedy, but they have consistently been defeated by compounding pharmacy, lobbyists.

<snip>
----------------------------------------------------------------------

In the case of compounding pharmacies, there are too few rules to enforce.

[Clames]

30. Lots of outright false and misinterpreted info there.

Fact: FDA may not bear the primary responsibility but still maintains the right to inspect compounding pharmacies. To state they don't have such authority is a blatant lie and shows whole misinterpretation of the 503a ruling. Learn for yourself, it's clearly an enforcement issue with the States and Feds doing little and blaming each other.

http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/ComplianceManuals/CompliancePolicyGuidanceManual/ucm074398.htm

[Eleanors38]

21. You mean just complete blow-it-out sales to anyone? Even I don't support that.

Please note that drug possession and sales are not a protected Constitutional right.

[SecularMotion]

23. Is armed robbery a protected Constitutional right?

[Eleanors38]

25. No. Why do you ask? nt

[Starboard Tack]

28. Probably because drugs were not an issue back then.

They didn't include the right to ride a bike either.

[SheilaT]

7. I'm a pacifist,

and I'll kill anyone who disagrees with me.

Back in the 1960's, Mad Magazine, I think it was, printed up a number of ironic bumper stickers, and that was one.

[iiibbb]

13. You seem angrier than the average person Sheila...

... it is probably good you don't have a gun.

[SheilaT]

19. Umm, I was quoting Mad Magazine.

From 45 years ago.

[MicaelS]

17. I like the term "Peace Fascist" much better.

A "Peace Fascist" is one who demands Peace to such an extent that they are willing to kill as many as necessary to achieve it.

I remember Spider Robinson used that term in one of his Callahan books. That was the first time I ran across the term.

[Eleanors38]

26. Thanks for that memory; something sprang up in my mind when Doner was advocating gun-control.

[jmg257]

15. For a smart guy, this Gun Zealot obviously wasn't all that bright.

"Prosecutors in Santa Clara County have charged Basham with ten felonies, including illegal possession of assault weapons, illegal possession of a destructive device and bomb making materials, criminal threats and the forging and possession of a fake driver's license."

from other links:
"He also faces misdemeanor charges of carrying a concealed and loaded 9mm handgun in a vehicle."

"The man authorities say threatened to assassinate state Sen. Leland Yee is a well-connected Silicon Valley engineer with a penchant for firearms and a distrust of the government."

"Basham remains in custody on no-bail status and is charged with threatening a public official, attempting to light an explosive device with the intent to commit murder and possession of explosives."

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/crime/2013/02/sen-leland-yee-says-latest-death-threat-more-serious-previous-ones#ixzz2LSMbPrUR


An engineer, business owner, and a dumbass criminal with guns - was it the govt he feared, or other criminals with guns? For a guy who worked for HP, seems he just assumed his threatening email couldn't be traced??