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Thu Feb 14, 2013, 04:14 PM

one generation’s “military rifle” is the next’s deer hunting rifle

Many gun control advocates want to use military/military style rifles as the definition for what a private individual can or cannot own.
This is “definition” is flawed as what constitute a military style weapon is constantly changing and evolving and most firearms would have been classified, at one time or another, as a military style weapon.

In 1722, this was the pinnacle of military firearms

There were variants of it until 1803, when along came this:

(1st rifle adopted by the US Military)
Then, 50 or so years later, along came this

Percussion cap, muzzle loader.

Then along came the breechloaders like this:



Late in the 19th century, along came the bolt action rifle, like this:



And this type of rifle stayed standard issue until the mid 20th century when along came the semi automatic, like this:



Until the late 1950’s when this came:



(1st standard issue select fire infantry rifle)
And a few years later, this came along:



Variants of which are still in active service today.

If you want to create laws as to what firearms can and cannot be owned, the definition must be fairly static and pretty much universal because 10-15-20 years from now, any definition created today will probably pretty much useless then.

12 replies, 2233 views

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Response to melm00se (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 04:19 PM

1. We need to keep these off the streets!

 



Otherwise ... we will be overrun with Spanish Pirates and Steampunk enthusiasts

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Response to melm00se (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 04:22 PM

2. Don't forget the Trapdoor Springfield and the Krag-Jorgenson.

The modern "Fudd" hunting rifle image comes from the millions of retired 1903 Springfields that were turned into hunting rifles after WW1 and WW2

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Response to melm00se (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 04:24 PM

3. I feel a twinge of dissonance at seeing a moose (or m00se) discussing hunting rifles



Nice post...

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Response to melm00se (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 04:25 PM

4. So you're recommending the banning of all firearms then? Is that it?

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Response to melm00se (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 04:48 PM

5. and ... there lies the rub with technology ... in all manner of lawmaking.

communications. medical. warfare.

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Response to melm00se (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 04:55 PM

6. Indeed, this is a canard.

Like a big stinky duck-butt.

I can't think of a viable idea for a kind of small arm that wasn't tried by some military somewhere at some time.

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Response to melm00se (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 05:39 PM

7. What's not to love about the AR.

Everything from the 22lr to the 50bmg can be put on the same frame.

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Response to melm00se (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 05:48 PM

8. Ah, the non-threatening '03 Springfield - AKA "Whispering Death"

Funny how that black rifle makes people uneasy, and yet that "old fashioned" wood stocked Springfield '03, nicknamed "Whispering Death" by the Germans in WWI, was used to kill at 800 to 1000 yards with iron sights. The 150 grain 30-06 bullet struck well before the shot could even be heard.

Once they get rid of all those EBRs they can start taking care of those "Hidden Killer Sniper Rifles".

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Response to DonP (Reply #8)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 07:01 PM

9. The Springfield design is a direct descendent of the Mauser 98

 

And the 8 mm round is no slouch in terms of ballistics.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #9)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 07:26 PM

10. Yep, but it's not like the Germans could sue us for copying parts of the Mauser by 1918

I have a K98 and an M48 too, and even though they are close in design and function the '03 has a really different feel to it, better balance maybe? I'm not sure what it is. Maybe it's just in my head?

I like the story of Teddy Roosevelt looking over the original design in '03 while he was in the White House to replace the Krag-Jorgensen, that had failed his unit in Cuba, and test firing it on the White House lawn and telling them to change the bayonet from a stupid retracting rod to a real bayonet, "put a real knife on it".

That's what you call a "hands on" President. Like Lincoln approving the Henry and Spencer for the troops, only after he had shot it on the White House lawn to test it.

My '03 is a "2 groove and land" early barrel. It's still the most accurate rifle I have in my collection.

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Response to melm00se (Original post)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 10:55 AM

11. And yet the general functional characteristics remain half-way up the list...

with the Garand: Gas-operated semi-auto fire when it comes to civilian firearms. Controllers do not want to concede that citizens have, save for Picatinny rails, composites and shrouds, the same type of arms selection they have had for at least 70 to 100 years.

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Response to melm00se (Original post)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 01:27 PM

12. match to flint

melm: one generation’s “military rifle” is the next’s deer hunting rifle
In 1722, this was the pinnacle of military firearms


.. the matchlock musket was the 'military' firearm of the 1600's, yet didn't develop into a hunting musket very well, the poof of smoke & pop 'delay' when the musket fired was enough warning to scare off birds & animals, likely more animals were saved by matchlocks than were shot.
.. the 'military firearm' of the revwar was a smoothbore musket WITH A BAYONET ATTACHED. It was not just a musket, only an idiot in charge would make a frontal assault or stand & defend with a single shot musket without a bayonet. Once the bayo was attached it essentially became more effective as a SPEAR, not a gun. And when in town, that 'assault weapon' of the 2ndAmendment period, was subject to rules about removing the bayonet from the musket, otherwise you were 'bearing arms' in town. I think I read somewhere bayos needed corks in tips sometimes, or wood.

.. a military style weapon is constantly changing and evolving and most firearms would have been classified, at one time or another, as a military style weapon.

You mean the flintlock musket became a big game gun, after being replaced by an actual rifled musket or rifle itself?.. aw go on! is this a joke thread?

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