Why You Should Shop Starbucks on Valentine's Day

I do understand why people fear those who illegally carry firearms and use them for criminal purposes.

and misrepresent the positions of other people on public policy issues.

If I were to do that, I'd say something like:

I find it hard to understand how anybody can live in such fear that they have to haul a gun with them when they go to a coffee shop.

I don't say that, because I know quite well that fear isn't their issue in most cases; their political values and their social attitudes are much more often the much stronger motivating factor.

People who object to firearms being carried in public spaces have different values and different attitudes.

But it's always amusing to see the lengths some will go to, repeatedly, to try to mask those facts.

to those who object to public carry of fire arms, what's the big deal?

There's plenty of hand waving and hurt feelings but at the end of the day it boils down to peoples fear. And we don't restrict constitutional rights to salve someones feelings.

more misrepresentation.

pretty common with any emotional issue.

From the link:

"This boycott is being called by the National Gun Victim's Action Council (NGAC), a network of 14 million gun victims..."

Next time I want to start a "movement," I'll grab my membership list from the NYC phone book.

As I understand Starbuck's policy, they chose to follow state law, and expect their customers to do the same. I'll have my coffee (I prefer tea) at Starbucks. Thanks for the tip.

This group is clearly unaware at how sh*t like this backfires. Pro-2A citizens will turn out in droves as news of this silliness goes viral in the RKBA community.

This is the second time gun owners have responded to a Starbucks boycott. The first time I seem to remember Starbucks announcing they were neutral and refused to take sides. They didnt want a political battle ground in the stores. Just following the law.
Now a few years later its happening again. I've see a few gun forums and they are all wound up to go to Starbucks. Some will open carry. Some will speak to the manager. Customers may feel awkward and mention something or write the company.

I used to OC regularly back when it first happened. I respected that Starbucks wasn't backing my side, but wasn't giving into anti gun fear which is all too easy. So when I went, I concealed, gave them my money, and wrote a letter to the company. I told them I was a frequent shopper and appreciated the neutrality.

I'll do the same this time. I see no reason to speak to the manager about this. They probably wont know or care.

Of course I don't know how every group of OC'ers are comporting themselves, but reading what (mostly right wing) members on gun forums are saying I don't see it happening. In these forums, composure and restraint is being suggested fairly regularly.

I guess what I should have added is that the RKBA community is not just going to be showing up in droves, but spending heavily.

(And see my final post in this thread re. pulling Starbucks into the fray.)

I don't drink coffee, but I'm sure some tea would be good that day

I'll be ordering two servings of coffee cake to go with my large coffee.

We haven't got one in the surrounding six or eight zip codes. So far out in the sticks we're still burning yesterdays sunshine.

I threw up in my mouth.

I'd rather toe-kick myself in the genitals with enough force to put one through the uprights at 65 yards than read it again. I'd rather chew on aluminum foil than to even think of it. I'd rather exfoliate with a steel brush and swim in lime juice while listening to the Westboro Church sing their interpretation of the Beatles "Hey Jude". I'd rather pour a mixture of alcohol gel and Ben Gay in my hair, light it on fire and try to put it out with a tack hammer.

Elliot Fineman, CEO of the NGAC, is a lying fuckwad shit-nozzle.

I'm gobsmacked with the lack of logic.

If a poster here said that, they'd be laughed off DU.

IOW: "We're going to try what the Brady Campaign already failed at, but fully expect better results"

I'm going to get a couple pounds of Blonde Roast to try at home, myself...

Maybe you'd like to point out any factual errors in the following

in no distinguishable murder or violence reduction. Further the 'gun homicide' distinction over, say, a distinction of simply 'homicide', is so completely disingenuous it's laughable.

The major restrictions were already in place. What is disingenuous about the "gun homicide" distinction. That's the focus of this group "guns".
The US has 4-5 times the per capita homicide rate of the UK.


http://fleshisgrass.wordpress.com/2007/04/17/us-and-uk-murder-rate-and-weapon/

even when the UK had very similar firearms laws. There was no reduction in homicide, crime or violence attributable to their firearms restrictions.

The US has 4-5 times the per capita homicide rate of the UK.

Couldn't have anything to do with ethnic mix, economics, availability of health care, availability of mental health services, income disparity, etc.? Nooo, couldn't be anything like that, it is inanimate objects which cast a violent spell on anyone in their vicinity, that's it..

Gun controlers always want to talk about "gun violence" and "gun homicide" to the exclusion of actual violence and homicide. If "gun homicide" rates decline, yet homicide rates remain exactly the same, the controllers decry victory...it is a ridiculous joke, and a numbers game for fools.

Are you actually saying that you think the homicide rate here would not change, should we adopt UK type legislation? All those 10,000+ gun homicides would still happen by other means?

Apparently, the UK has more per/capita violent crime than the US. So, by your logic, there would be a drastic reduction in homicides here. The big difference is that the Brits don't have the option of detached, impersonal violence. It's much harder to stab or pummel someone to death than shoot them. Has nothing to do with ethnic mix, economics or health care. Those are red herrings. It has to do with public safety trumping individual "right" to carry a gun around and the insanity of a gun loving society. Period.

to prove that the UK or Canada or Australia or any other country which has enacted gun bans has had a reduction of violent crime or homicide?? Why? Because there were no reductions.

Why not just be honest? The truth is you don't care if I own and shoot because that is what I like to do. Or that I carry (even though I don't) because I might live in a dangerous neighborhood, have a spouse or other person who is or has threatened me..it just don't matter to you. You simply don't like guns and it isn't enough to simply not own them yourself, you don't want anyone else to own them either. I understand. I have no use for private swimming pools, think they should either be outlawed or at least extremely heavily regulated, afterall they kill 10 times more kids 0-14 than guns do. I think youth sports is idiotic, especially contact sports, football kills twice as many kids as guns do. I think motorcycles, especially dirt bikes and ATVs are for complete fools, they kill scores more kids than guns. Don't even get me started on vicious dog breeds or exotic pe(s)ts, I, though, am satisfied to simply not take part in those activities.

No chance that the UKs violent crime rate is higher because the weaker in society have little or no option to defend themselves with anything which doesn't require brute strength? And I have no idea what you are looking at then gleaning nonsensical conclusions as to my intents or beliefs.

Oh, and to not believe there are at least 10 socio-economic reasons for violent crime and homicide is simply not understanding the problem. Are you actually saying you believe the 10k "gun homicides" would vanish without guns? How naive.

The gun ban in the UK didn't change the equation much, because it was meant to filter out the few remaining nutters who went out on shooting sprees, which fucked things up for everyone else. Firearms legislation was already very strict. Very few people owned handguns and nobody carried, thankfully.
You are completely wrong about how I feel about guns. I grew up with guns and enjoyed hunting and sport shooting. I do not support public carry and never have. The practice is pure madness in an urban environment, as is demonstrated by the stats. Dangerous neighborhoods don't become safer by introducing more guns. I share your dislike for contact sports, ATVs etc. and also choose not to participate. Swimming pools should be heavily regulated to protect children.
I support gun ownership, though I do believe that by eliminating handguns, gun homicides would be reduced considerably.
There is a mentality in this country that believes handguns are effective problem solving tools and I guess they are, in a very draconian sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wichita_Massacre

Two miles from my house.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rader

Came to my house at least 3 times, returned my dog one of the times.

We differ in opinion in believing that if we act evolved so will everyone else. There are, in my world, draconian monsters. I really doubt I'll ever be the attempted victim of one of these neanderthals, and if I am that I'll know until it's too late. But if the odds fall on me, I may have a better chance of defending myself. Very simple. None of the idiots above would have been deterred from their desire to commit violence and murder by an inability to get a hand gun or any gun. Most of the 10k murders are committed by convicted felons in disputes. Occasionally there are innocent victims and even more occasionally a 'mass murder' occurs. The numbers of mass murders and innocent victims of gunfire, are infinitesimal compared to alcohol, negligent driving, and a whole lot of other activities which claims the lives of innocent victims. It's a freedom, it has a price, very blunt, but all freedoms do come with a price. The fact that violence and homicide have been declining every year for 20 years. During that same 20 years concealed carry has come to nearly every state in the union, this speaks volumes to your claims of increased crime because of ccw or even handgun proliferation. The answer to the draconian criminals isn't taking away defensive tools of potential victims

Even when the UK had lax to no gun laws, there were few shootings and equally low if not lower "gun violence." There were just as many stabbings etc. You are probably old enough to remember those days.
That said, the Brits who do choose to use guns, use machine guns more than here.

I don't remember any "lax" gun laws and I grew up there. First handgun I ever saw was one handed to me by a little old lady, during my days in the constabulary. It was a luger in mint condition and she had found it under the bed of a lodger who had passed away. This occurred during the mid 60's during an amnesty. We collected thousands of guns and dumped them all in the Irish Sea.

Lugers are a work of art, dumping them in the ocean is just uncivilized.

I really wanted to keep it, but resisted the temptation. Not a difficult decision, really.

Bought some coffee, told them I appreciate they follow local law and don't give in to either group by taking a side.
Also wrote a letter to corporate.

Time to do it again. I know a few dozen others in my area who will be going out of the way to stop in. I doubt Starbucks will be hurting.

Oh look Clive, it's those nice guys with guns again. Whoopee!

I don't drink coffee, so it will be hot chocolate for me. But seeing that Brady's boycott fell flat on its face, another group wants to fail too!

Fineman is misdirecting his anger at law abiding concealed carriers and a business that allows individual choice to carry in their establishments. His son was killed in a restaurant by a criminal and not someone with a permit to carry a weapon. His grief has made him lash at the people he should really support.

This group is a nonplayer in politics and they are a bunch of asshats.

Here is a good example of their asshattery.



And here is another example (talk about extreme zealotry, non even the NRA says comparable BS):




http://gunvictimsaction.org/about-2/overview-of-gun-problem/

"Whenever you hear ANYTHING about guns that seems appealing, reasonable or factual KNOW IT IS PROBABLY NOT TRUE."

...two lives could have been saved.

Sadly, all they do is rant online and sit home wrapped in a thick coat of smug about how "witty" they are polishing their machete, while the rest of us enjoy our chosen sport or hobby.

...but because of laws which protect all of us.

Just because someone has been diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic does not mean he is automatically a danger to himself or others. If he has not been legally adjudicated insane, then there is no way to legally prevent a sale.

1. Known terrorists who are not allowed to purchase a plane ticket can legally purchase guns, including:
Guns that can bring down a plane landing or taking off.

2. The gun industry is the only industry exempt from Federal regulation. (It used to be tobacco and guns, now it is just guns.) So why can't I buy a new full-auto rifle or a 10" barreled shotgun? Oh, yeah... federal regulation
Guns are not registered. Not by the federal government per se, but by some state and local governments. Plus when you buy a gun, the serial number is on the ATF form for the background checks.
Gun owners are not licensed. Not by the feds, but by some states and local governments. Except for 4 states, you need a permit to carry concealed.

3. Guns do not have to be insured for the damage they do:
Over the past 20 years, $100 Billion of our tax dollars have been been spent to pay for the costs of gun violence.Guns don't weigh 3,000 pounds and travel down the highway at 70mph. That might be a reason. Another reason is that if one of my guns is misused, it's going to be because it was stolen. So I should have insurance on my gun to protect me in case somebody else steals it and uses it to commit a crime? How many years should I have to buy that insurance after my gun is stolen???
If you do not own a gun, why should your tax dollars pay for the cost of gun violence?I don't snowboard... why should my tax dollars... etc., etc., etc. *yawn*

4. Criminals and people with mental illness, who cannot legally buy a gun from a gun dealer:
Can go to any gun show and legally buy as many guns as they want.If they can't buy legally from a dealer, they can't buy legally. Period.
Can buy them through private sales.Ibid.

5. Many states have passed laws allowing guns in restaurants, bars, schools, sporting arenas, workplace parking lots, airports and churches. The list keeps growing.And gun violence and the homicide rate continues to drop. Imagine that.

6. Guns can now be carried in National Parks and on Amtrak trains.Guns can be carried in National Parks, pursuant to the laws of the state that the Park (or part thereof) is in. Guns can be shipped on Amtrak trains as checked luggage.

7. The NRA is trying to pass laws that:
Allow people with Alzheimers to legally purchase guns. The burden of proof is on the Government to prove a person has a disqualifying illness, not the reverse
Allow soldiers diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome to legally purchase guns.Ibid
Abolish gun free school zones. Because this has worked so well at stopping school shootings?

Nearest Starbucks is 30 miles away. I'll be there.

oh dear - what's a progressive to do?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politicsnorthwest/2017323520_starbucks_supports_gay_marriag.html

The distribution and sale of illegal street drugs is the root of most of the violence we see in the U.S. with regard to guns. Just like when we tried to ban alcohol during Prohibition. If the victim's advocates would boycott their dealer then that would be a real statement.

Drug dealers can't take their business disputes to court, so they settle it as best they can given the nature of their trade. There's lots of money to be made from illegal drug sales. That's the problem, not what rifle I may or may not choose to own. Or what object I may or may not choose to conceal in my clothing.

Instead of showing up at Starbuck's, why don't you RKBA militants stay at home and practice being responsible, non-confrontational gun owners? It's pretty obvious that a lot of you need the experience. And aren't you claiming in another thread that gun control is an issue that no longer has a following? Is all this triumphalist strutting and spewing of yours just a front, masking the hysterical paranoia that has propelled your movement for decades? ("Obama's gonna take away our guns, because he's NOT trying to take them away!") Jesus, you folks are entertaining.....

Moreover, let's estimate the total number of "RKBA militants" at 5 million (that's the approximate membership of the NRA).

This would mean that 99.98% of these "militants" are doing to do exactly what you've just asked them to do....so you get what you want! Congratulations!

Is buying a cup of coffee now "confrontational"?

Demonizing the people you hate and fear... I hear that's a winning tactic... somewhere.

Instead of showing up at Starbuck's, why don't you RKBA militants stay at home and practice being responsible, non-confrontational gun owners?

Isn’t that pretty much the same mentality of the FAR RIGHT regarding the OWS movement?

I guess these words mean nothing to you:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


I'll be spending a pile of money at Starbucks on Valentines Day.

I may just walk in and buy every person in the store a cup of coffee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And uh... Where is this going to be?

The fire is almost out, but every time a spark smolders, we're there to stomp it out.

Why should we give up our best tactic? This reminds me of Greta Christina's talk on atheism (ffw to about 34:00) -

...and the constant assistance of an ugly right-wing, anti-liberal power bloc in this country.

What percentage of your DU posts are gun-related? 90%? 98%? That's not "diligence," it's an unhealthy obsession. Particularly in a site dedicated to Democratic Party principles.....

I'd also remind the reader that you lot depend on "the constant assistance" of Mayor 1%, Michael Bloomberg and his allies at the Republican-led Brady Campaign.

Not only that, we've had support expressed for the Patriot Act by at least one person on your side of this issue:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11721786#post117

And last, but not least: the 180 on the "ugly right-wing, anti-liberal" so-called terror watch lists when guns were added:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3031131#3032492

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php/www/:/www.youtube.com/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=431371&mesg_id=431380

Mote, meet beam...

But DU is only one site, not the center of the universe.

I daresay I've done more, in more campaigns, in more states to support our party than you have. I was in a union picket line before I could stand. I handed out buttons and fliers when I was ten. I've worked on four different campaigns for representatives in Virginia (3 delegates, one senate). I was the co-chair of the Young Democrats at the Clinch Valley College of the University of Virginia for three years. I registered at least a hundred dem college students to vote during that time.

In Tennessee, I was assistant to the secretary of the democratic party of knox county for a year. Between 1993 and 1996, I can't count the hours I spent canvassing for candidates, ferrying people to polls, helping register poor and minority voters, and lobbying for democratic measures in the city council- whether it was additional funding for city facilities, decrying racist policies of the KPD, or helping raise support for a new bond initiative to support the emporium (performing arts center).

In 2008, I put 650 miles on my wife's car ferrying mostly elderly and poor voters to the polls- from the time early voting started all the way through the day of the election. I phone banked and stuffed envelopes for Bill White in 2010, as well as putting another 400 miles on our vehicles. I *still* hear from a few of those elderly voters when they need help (the most recent was a korean war vet who needed a ride to the VA center in Arlington.)

What have *you* done for the party, Paladin?

I also was protesting against Newt Gingrich with ADAPT (http://www.adapt.org) when one poster here was at still home watching Zoom reruns.
I'm also an SEIU member.

Yeah, we're really right-wing and anti-liberal, we are...

<Sarcasm mode to "OFF">

Absolutely! The focus you mention is called 'freedom'. I can think of few more important nor more noble political pursuits.

Sorry we bothered you.

It's an unhealthy obsession."

It's been explained multiple times why many of us post primarily in the Guns Forum.

1) We believe that gun restriction policy is the one issue that the Democratic Party is very wrong about, and......

2) There are very serious political consequences for our horrible decisions in this area.

If you want to tar me as an "obsessive" for focusing on what I believe to be the single-most damaging issue affecting the Democratic Party, then tar away. I'll wear the label proudly.

Finally, what sort of "liberal" is obsessed about who posts where and how often?

So I don't post much in the other sub-folders, because I have nothing to add to the conversation.

I post here, because we could get a lot more mileage out of some swing voters, if we'd just drop this horseshit from the party platform.

Lots of parallels with the gun restriction movement - and as you mentioned, the strategic significance of vigilance.

If I may rework the line that drew strong applause toward the end of Greta's talk:

Pro-RKBA Democrats aren't angry because there's something wrong with us. We're angry because there's something right with us.

every day. And I carry concealed every day. No problems.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in texas

Exercising a protected civil liberty is not being confrontational.

Why don't you anti-gun zealots quit your whining and bitching and just give it up since all any of you can do is sit at home and get on the internet to complain about how morally superior you are but do nothing to try to get anything done about illegal gun violence.

...I'll be flying. I'll be sure to buy a coffee at both ends and probably a bag of beans to go.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/nw-gun-rights-activists-coffee-up-as-starbucks-posts-profits

"Earlier this week, this column noted yet another attempt by gun prohibitionists will be launched to bully Starbucks into refusing service to legally armed customers, and yesterday, the Seattle Times reported that the Seattle-based coffee giant has posted yet another profits gain.

Starbucks' profit climbed 10 percent to $382.1 million for the first quarter ended Jan. 1, on revenue that grew 16 percent to $3.4 billion, the Seattle-based coffee chain said Thursday.

It added 241 new stores during the quarter, its biggest quarterly growth since the summer of 2008.

The consumer products division, which sells everything from bottled Frappuccino to Starbucks' new single-portion packs for Keurig coffee machines, saw a 72 percent boost in revenue to $335.8 million.—Seattle Times

"

I think it's a great idea.

*symbolic of Amendment 2

... when was the last time anyone saw a $2 bill?

That is, if they're not currently in stock. Might be wrong about that - but I'll find out for sure tomorrow when I try.

paid me in a stack of news twos a few years ago. After not seeing them for years, had them checked out by the local USSS office to see if they were real. They were.

They had them in stock. The branch manager went so far as to select the cleanest ones for me, and explained that when the branch doesn't have them you can order. (10 day wait) She told me that if I wanted more she had roughly another $200 worth.

I believe that there are five Starbucks in my city. On Valentines Day I'll drive to four, putting 4 bucks in each tip jar with a friendly note attached with a web address that supplies the info. on the significance of the two dollar bills (or google instructions) and complimenting the company for their respect for the rule of law. At my nearby neighborhood Starbucks I'll buy merchandise of some sort and a large cup of coffee - paying with the new bills, and of course tipping.

Not only should we patronize Starbucks. We should send a dozen roses on Valentine's day.

And to those who are complaining that gun owners are making an effort here to support Starbucks, it wasn't gun owners who dragged Starbucks into this. The company has always been neutral on the gun issue; it was the Brady Campaign (and this year, some miscellaneous offshoot of same) that tried to politicize this.

http://www.sportco.com/store/pc/-I-Love-Guns-Coffee-T-Shirt-Sizes-SM-4XL-778p68418.htm

Some RKBA supporters are suggesting buying something today, (Mon.) tomorrow and the day after in order to make a louder statement.

...for lunch tomorrow. Can't think a better way to spend a little of my tax payer provided per diem this week...

tipped with 2 dollar bills. Of course that would have meant very little to the baristas, so i clipped them to an index card with a Thank You and a friendly google suggestion to explain the use of the bills. Spent about $40.00 all together.

Starbucks will have done a significantly higher volume of business today as a result of this buycott.

be sure to let them know why.

The place was packed.

I told the manager that I was there to fight the boycott. "What boycott," he asked sincerely.

I started to tell him, but he rolled his eyes in recognition as he realized I was talking about the Second Amendment opponents. "It's legal" he said.

He thanked me for my support, and as I left for the adjacent bookstore, I heard him explaining to the younger workers.

Those 14 million members are really taking a toll in my area.

Second Amendment opponents have almost as little power as they deserve.

I really don't care for Starbucks coffee, but I made the trip today, and told the gentleman that served me why I was there.
I hope that any impact made by a boycott of NGAC supporters was lost by the support of their opponents.