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Tue Feb 12, 2013, 09:05 AM

Gun culture fails to pass Buddhist muster

MOORHEAD — With the rapid spread of Buddhism in the western United States, boosted by increased immigration from Asia, Americans have begun to apply Buddhist principles to solve their everyday problems.

Although Buddhism has two major sects — Theravada and Mahayana — both agree on the crux of Buddhist philosophy based on the Four Noble Truths, the Noble Eightfold Path and the associated 12-factor formula of “conditioned genesis.”

This essay asserts that the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution would not have passed muster if our founding fathers had recognized the Four Noble Truths as the undisputable truth.

The Noble Eightfold Path does not endorse weapons for individual protection or use of guns for pleasure hunting.

http://www.lankaweb.com/news/items/2013/02/11/gun-culture-fails-to-pass-buddhist-muster/

38 replies, 3005 views

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Arrow 38 replies Author Time Post
Reply Gun culture fails to pass Buddhist muster (Original post)
SecularMotion Feb 2013 OP
Puha Ekapi Feb 2013 #1
SecularMotion Feb 2013 #2
Puha Ekapi Feb 2013 #3
SecularMotion Feb 2013 #6
Puha Ekapi Feb 2013 #8
SecularMotion Feb 2013 #16
Puha Ekapi Feb 2013 #19
SecularMotion Feb 2013 #20
Puha Ekapi Feb 2013 #21
SecularMotion Feb 2013 #22
Puha Ekapi Feb 2013 #23
Ashgrey77 Feb 2013 #31
AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #35
iiibbb Feb 2013 #38
iiibbb Feb 2013 #4
jmg257 Feb 2013 #5
GreenStormCloud Feb 2013 #7
Puha Ekapi Feb 2013 #9
Remmah2 Feb 2013 #11
Remmah2 Feb 2013 #10
SecularMotion Feb 2013 #17
Straw Man Feb 2013 #18
Remmah2 Feb 2013 #24
SecularMotion Feb 2013 #26
Remmah2 Feb 2013 #27
SecularMotion Feb 2013 #28
Remmah2 Feb 2013 #29
AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #36
iiibbb Feb 2013 #25
MicaelS Feb 2013 #12
DonP Feb 2013 #13
gejohnston Feb 2013 #14
Eleanors38 Feb 2013 #15
Ashgrey77 Feb 2013 #30
Clames Feb 2013 #32
gejohnston Feb 2013 #33
LineNew Reply ~
Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2013 #34
AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #37

Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 09:25 AM

1. So what?



I'm not Buddhist, have no desire to be Buddhist, do not recognize Buddhism as inherently superior to the traditional ways of my people.

Is there a point you wish to make?

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 09:28 AM

2. What are "the traditional ways of my people"?

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Response to SecularMotion (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 09:46 AM

3. I am...

...Nuhndta Nooch, (Northern Ute) from Ft. Duchesne, Utah. A traditionalist Native.

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 09:58 AM

6. How do the traditional ways of the Ute square with the 2nd amendment?

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Response to SecularMotion (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 10:33 AM

8. In our traditional culture

We still have a strong warrior ethos. Every able-bodied man should be armed and ready to defend himself, his family, and his people.

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Reply #8)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 12:27 PM

16. To defend yourself against other people with "strong warrior ethos"?

Our society and the world would be better off without the warrior ethos.

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Response to SecularMotion (Reply #16)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 01:07 PM

19. Sorry it offends you.

But the dominant culture has been trying to dictate to us for 500 years. NATIVE people will decide what is, and what isn't, better for NATIVE people. Your opinion on our traditional values means exactly squat to me.

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Reply #19)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 01:14 PM

20. The warrior ethos is not unique to Native Americans.

We could make this world a better place if all cultures would reject warrior ethos as a "traditional value"

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Response to SecularMotion (Reply #20)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 01:16 PM

21. In case you missed my

last post, let me say it again. You DO NOT have any say in what is, or is not, good for Native people. Am I clear?

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Reply #21)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 01:23 PM

22. I'm sorry if you're offended by my opinions.

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Response to SecularMotion (Reply #22)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 02:22 PM

23. It's really not....

you position per se that's offensive. Rather, it is the idea that someone of the dominant culture once again thinks they know what is best for Native people. Now that's offensive.

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Reply #23)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:22 PM

31. +1 n/t

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Response to SecularMotion (Reply #16)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:11 AM

35. Till some power-mad dirtbag shows up.

We didn't call them 'the greatest generation' for nothing. Those were dark days, and a good thing we had 'warriors' of our own.

Being capable of fighting, and fighting well, does not make you a violent person.

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Response to SecularMotion (Reply #16)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:24 AM

38. Mattie Stepanek

 

Amazing little kid who pondered the notion of whether there was such a thing as a "just" war by asking if there such a thing as a "just" peace?

Just because something is peaceful, doesn't necessarily mean that it is good. There is a distinction between being a peaceful person and being a pacifist. I have never raised an offensive violent hand to anyone in my whole life; I have been a powerless victim, and I evolved from that.

I don't think that people should be required to be victims. I don't think people should be required to stand idle with no means to help other people.

"Warrior" does not mean that war/violence is their first and only tool; To think that it is, is incredibly naive... and to the warrior that it is their first response... they're in the wrong business.

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 09:47 AM

4. Luckily for Buddhists we have freedom of religion here... thanks to guns.

 

Too bad they don't at the Potala Palace.... thanks to guns.

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 09:52 AM

5. No meat, no beer, and no self -defense?? Well - drop me off at the next titty bar.

Thanks - but I'll pass.

I wonder...W.W.B.S.?

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 10:13 AM

7. The U.S. has separation of Church and State.

The largest religious group in the U.S. are the Roman Catholics. They don't allow birth control (except rhythm method) nor do they allow abortion.

Thankfully, neither Buddhists nor Catholics get to write our laws based on their religious doctrines.

I get to have guns for both hunting and personal protection, took a girl friend to an abortion clinic 25 years ago, (luckily it was a false alarm, she wasn't pregnant) and had a vasectomy right after that. Hooray for freedom.

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 10:35 AM

9. I am still...

...wondering what your point IS.

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 10:57 AM

11. Propaganda and bullshit.

 

Those opposed?

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 10:55 AM

10. Monks With Guns: Discovering Buddhist Violence

 

http://www.religiondispatches.org/books/2158/monks_with_guns:_discovering_buddhist_violence/

http://www.religiondispatches.org/images/managed/Story+Image_bhutan.jpg

The publication of Buddhist Warfare, a book I co-edited with Mark Juergensmeyer, is a bittersweet experience as it marks the culmination of a journey that began with an exploration of the peaceful aspects of Buddhism only to end up chronicling portions of its dark side. This journey, which consumed much of the last six years of my life, began in 2003 when my wife and I spent a little over a year in Thailand. It was then that I began to research Buddhist social activism which was going to be the topic of my dissertation.

Rather than look to archives, I decided to speak with Buddhist monks and nuns on the ground. I interviewed monks protecting the forests from big business and villagers from dangerous pesticides; I met and began to chronicle the activities of the first fully ordained Thai Buddhist nun, Dhammananda Bhikkuni; and I met with Thai Buddhist monastic intellectuals.

Military Monks

Then in January 2004, violent attacks broke out in the southern provinces of Thailand, some of which were directed at Buddhist monks. These attacks and the numerous ones to follow shocked the country. But, since contemporary issues and my research interests seemed to be converging, I thought: what better way to study Buddhist activism than to observe Buddhist monks engaged in peacemaking?

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Response to Remmah2 (Reply #10)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 12:32 PM

17. This is basically a smear attack against the Buddhist philosophy of non-violence

The author exploits a worst case scenario where Buddhists have employed soldier monks to protect themselves. The armed monks are considered to be making a sacrifice to protect the greater good.

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Response to SecularMotion (Reply #17)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 12:53 PM

18. I'm reminded of ...

The armed monks are considered to be making a sacrifice to protect the greater good.

... some Buddhists in Japan who ate meat and wore leather, but shunned butchers and cobblers because they were "unclean."

Let others soil themselves so that we can remain clean. So very progressive.

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Response to SecularMotion (Reply #17)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 02:43 PM

24. That's the point.

 

And you tripped over it.

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Response to Remmah2 (Reply #24)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 02:55 PM

26. You're using the same argument the NRA uses against Mayor Bloomberg for having armed security

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Response to SecularMotion (Reply #26)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:20 PM

27. Get off the NRA anal retentive excuse wagon.

 

Every time you quote the NRA a kitten dies.

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Response to Remmah2 (Reply #27)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:23 PM

28. If you don't want to be accused of carrying water for the NRA

don't use their arguments.

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Response to SecularMotion (Reply #28)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:00 PM

29. There are some things that are universal.

 

Water is wet, you, the NRA and I could agree on that.

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Response to SecularMotion (Reply #28)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:14 AM

36. Really? I didn't know the NRA went around planting flags of ownership, or pissing on ideas to claim

property rights.

In fact, one way to shut down an opposition argument is to get some completely unpopular shitbag to vocally endorse your point of view.

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Response to SecularMotion (Reply #17)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 02:48 PM

25. So in the Buddhist eye, the contractual violence against other souls is not the same

 

as committing the violence yourself?

Sounds liberating.

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:35 AM

12. So what?

Catholics and Fundamentalist Christians don't like abortion and contraception.

Fundamentalist Jews don't like some things.

Fundamentalist Muslims don't like a lot of things.

The evidence around the world, not just to mention right here in the US, shows what happens when the extremely religious are allowed to impose their will on others. Buddhist are no different. You don't want to own a gun, don't own one. But you are not going to impose your religion on me.

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:41 AM

13. Cheeseburger fails to pass Buddhist Muster

I guess I'll have to think long and hard about my lunch choices too, based on the Buddhist disapproval.

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 11:56 AM

14. my Mormon dad and my

paternal grandparents would not approve of my coffee drinking among other things. I'm about to pour myself another cup.

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 12:06 PM

15. Interesting discussion on the failings of religions

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:14 PM

30. So where does Shaolin Kung Fu and Zen Karate fall into this then?

Considering both forms use weapons and hand to hand combat to defend themselves and their monasteries I fail to see your point.

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 07:59 PM

32. The beer I'm drinking doesn't pass Buddhist muster.

 

This room is full of the fucks I give too.

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 08:10 PM

33. this is a secular country founded by Deists, Agnostics, Christians, and whatever else

This is not a Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, Druid, Wiccan, Animist, Shinto, or any other theist country. As a secular country, I believe the wall separating church and state can never be too high or thick. That said, if you are on that path you obligated yourself to follow it. I haven't.

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 02:16 AM

37. I had sprouts on my sandwich for lunch today.

Just thought I'd share. It's about as relevant to the gun control debate in the US as your OP.

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