HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Justice & Public Safety » Gun Control & RKBA (Group) » ‘Straw Purchases’ Contrib...

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:08 PM

‘Straw Purchases’ Contributing To St. Louis Gun Violence

ST. LOUIS (KMOX) - Congress is considering ways to toughen the penalties for people who help convicted felons get guns by lying on their paperwork.

Trista Frederick is a special agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. She says in St. Louis, many of the guns which end up in the hands of felons committing crimes on the street were purchased illegally by “straw parties” who claimed the gun they were purchasing was for themselves.

“Straw purchasing is a significant problem in the St. Louis area and is a major contributing factor to the cycle of violence that occurs in St. Louis,” Frederick said. “Unfortunately, we can’t say with any accuracy the number of firearms that are straw purchased because the violations often go undetected by law enforcement and the industry. It’s often not until a firearm is used in a crime that the straw purchase is discovered.

Both the U.S. Senate and U.S. House of Representatives are considering plans to raise the penalty for straw purchasing a gun from the current ten years in prison to thirty.

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2013/02/06/straw-purchases-contributing-to-st-louis-gun-violence/

10 replies, 1309 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread

Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 04:26 PM

1. That's another thing that will end when you need to take out

liability insurance on the spot, just like you do in order to drive that new car off the lot.

Straw purchases would stop overnight.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warpy (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 11:54 PM

3. In order to do that you would have to register individual firearms. ...

If that were a requirement it will be hard to pass gun liability insurance.

Gun liability insurance will have an easier time passing if the gun owner is insured rather than each of his firearms. In some states such as Florida gun registration is illegal.


The 2012 Florida Statutes


Title XLVI
CRIMES
Chapter 790
WEAPONS AND FIREARMS

The Legislature finds and declares that:
1. The right of individuals to keep and bear arms is guaranteed under both the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and s. 8, Art. I of the State Constitution.
2. A list, record, or registry of legally owned firearms or law-abiding firearm owners is not a law enforcement tool and can become an instrument for profiling, harassing, or abusing law-abiding citizens based on their choice to own a firearm and exercise their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under the United States Constitution. Further, such a list, record, or registry has the potential to fall into the wrong hands and become a shopping list for thieves.
3. A list, record, or registry of legally owned firearms or law-abiding firearm owners is not a tool for fighting terrorism, but rather is an instrument that can be used as a means to profile innocent citizens and to harass and abuse American citizens based solely on their choice to own firearms and exercise their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under the United States Constitution.
4. Law-abiding firearm owners whose names have been illegally recorded in a list, record, or registry are entitled to redress.
(b) The Legislature intends through the provisions of this section to:
1. Protect the right of individuals to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under both the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and s. 8, Art. I of the State Constitution.
2. Protect the privacy rights of law-abiding firearm owners.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.335.html


Of course if it passes it will face a challenge in the court system.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to spin (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 12:10 AM

4. It should be just like car insurance

You can buy all the cars you want to, but if you want to drive them off the lot, you need that liability insurance on the spot.

The same should be true of firearms wherever they're sold.

The laws currently on the books are not working and most of us are sick of the carnage.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warpy (Reply #4)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 01:13 AM

5. I have no problem with requiring liability insurance for gun owners. ...

I do have a problem with registering firearms as I agree with my state on this issue.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warpy (Reply #4)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:34 AM

6. So when someone steals your car... uses it to abduct and do whatever to a child...

 

you should be sued?

This is the concept?

How would this stop straw purchases? The straw purchaser has insurance... he pays a premium... someone uses his guns in a crime the insurance company pays. Perhaps his premium goes up.

I don't see the disincentive for a straw purchaser. All he does is pass the insurance costs on to his customers.

After I report a gun stolen... do I have to maintain a policy on it until the gun rematerializes? I could just cancel my policy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to iiibbb (Reply #6)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:29 PM

9. The disincentive for a straw purchaser

is the money he has to shell out along with the gun to insure it. Friendship goes only so far.

What we're doing now has led to more guns and more mass murders. Apparently you're OK with that and don't want to try anything that might actually work.

By the way, anything after a sentence that begins with "so" is a strawman. You can play with him.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warpy (Reply #9)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:38 PM

10. I'm not okay with straw purchases... I'm very not okay with it.

 

I don't understand how this stops straw purchases.

Straw purchaser buys gun + insurance then dumps insurance.


Now if you're saying that the registration element of a gun purchase leads the police back to him for criminal charges... that's another matter, but I still don't see what that has to do with insurance.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warpy (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 09:38 AM

7. What do you do when someone buys a gun using your stolen identity?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to iiibbb (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 7, 2013, 03:27 PM

8. Same thing you do when they buy a car and a trip to Aruba

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:10 PM

2. IMHO - Universal 100% background checks would be a big step forward.

 

You may have heard the saying..... "ignorance of the law does not excuse" (ignorantia juris non excusat). It is a legal principle holding that a person who is unaware of a law or is unaware that he is violating a law may not escape liability for violating that law.

Well, that's not the case in successfully prosecuting an illegal "straw purchase" because the INTENT is an element of the crime that MUST BE PROVED by the prosecution. Try PROVING that the "straw dealer" KNOWING sold a firearm to a convicted felon when there is no paper trail. Unless the "straw dealer" is stupid enough to confess he knew the buyer was a felon, that "straw dealer" will walk.

Currently there isn't any requirement for me as a private individual to do any background check (or even ID check) on another private individual before selling him a gun. I don't have to keep and record of the transaction........ NOTHING!

Now the gun nut "Bubbas" want to keep this crazy situation just as it is. They don't want to be bothered by filling out any paperwork, or paying any minor transfer fee, or enduring any type of "big gubmint meddlin'". They just want to be able to gift that shootin' iron of their's to Bubba Jr. or sell it to their buddy, Skeeter...... with no fuss, dag nabbit!

This is nUgGin' FuTZ!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread