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DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Justice & Public Safety » Gun Control & RKBA (Group) » New laws...

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:27 PM

Star Member discntnt_irny_srcsm (5,666 posts)

New laws...

...have been proposed prohibiting the transfer and purchase of certain firearms. The short term immediate goal of many of these proposed laws is limiting the availability of "military-looking" semi-auto firearms. The average enthusiast type consumer hypothetically interested in acquiring a "military-looking" semi-auto firearm after the passage of such laws would need to:
- buy an unaffected model of the firearm in question (older, used or otherwise exempt)
- buy a form, fit and function equivalent lower receiver for the firearm desired (the only part classed as an actual firearm) and then buy the desired parts. (contact the ATF and your county regarding possible restrictions for weapons you plan to sell or possible "manufacturing" issues)

In general, these types of laws affect only the prices of firearms. Functionally equivalent firearms are still available. It is rather easy to make a non-military grade firearm LOOK LIKE a military grade firearm.

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Arrow 28 replies Author Time Post
Reply New laws... (Original post)
 discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 OP
LineReply An assault weapons ban will have to include
 pipoman Jan 2013 #1
LineLineReply AFAIK...
 discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #4
LineLineLineReply Interestingly, in NY people have already found a loophole based on the current wording of the law...
 iiibbb Jan 2013 #5
LineLineLineLineReply Like all laws...
 discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #8
LineLineLineNew Reply Well said n/t
 Bay Boy Jan 2013 #25
LineLineLineLineNew Reply Thanks :) n/t
 discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #28
LineReply Another distraction post?
 upaloopa Jan 2013 #2
LineLineReply I doubt that any legislation requiring firearm registration at a national level ...
 spin Jan 2013 #3
LineLineLineReply Time will tell. I keep saying and am sure it is true.
 upaloopa Jan 2013 #6
LineLineLineLineReply Please explain Vermont
 Lurks Often Jan 2013 #9
LineLineLineLineLineReply Small population
 upaloopa Jan 2013 #10
LineLineLineLineLineLineReply So than maybe it isn't about the guns,
 Lurks Often Jan 2013 #12
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply When someone kills 20 kids in a school it is about guns .
 upaloopa Jan 2013 #13
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply And yet children die every day in the cities like Chicago,
 Lurks Often Jan 2013 #20
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply You understand algebra I assume
 upaloopa Jan 2013 #14
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply IMHO...
 discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #16
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply We can reduce the number of guns by
 upaloopa Jan 2013 #18
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply gun by backs...
 discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #27
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply Your equation is flawed
 Lurks Often Jan 2013 #19
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply You accept only perfection which you know as well
 upaloopa Jan 2013 #21
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply We reduce gun violence by putting
 Lurks Often Jan 2013 #26
LineLineReply re: "...the gun lobby will find a way around it."
 discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #7
LineLineLineReply Stop asking me stupid questions. I'm not here for gunner
 upaloopa Jan 2013 #11
LineLineLineLineReply re: "...I'm not here for gunner debate sport"
 discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #15
LineLineLineLineLineReply That's true but I'm not here to play games.
 upaloopa Jan 2013 #17
LineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply that is debatable.
 Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2013 #22
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply Time to end this addition.
 upaloopa Jan 2013 #23
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply I think you mean edition but, pray - do Carry On with the addition
 Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2013 #24

Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:39 PM

Star Member pipoman (10,399 posts)

1. An assault weapons ban will have to include

Last edited Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:03 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

an unambiguous definition..banning by nomenclature is a 'finger in the dike' attempt which will end in failure either by being ineffective or run into constitutional issues I believe..

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Response to pipoman (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:54 PM

Star Member discntnt_irny_srcsm (5,666 posts)

4. AFAIK...

...laws, bans and restrictions of any description, based only on how a firearm "appears" will only "appear" to work. Nothing useful will be accomplished.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:58 PM

iiibbb (1,448 posts)

5. Interestingly, in NY people have already found a loophole based on the current wording of the law...

 

... the law is based on features. If there are more than one item, then the gun has to be registered (and Cuomo has stated that confiscation is an ultimate goal).

...however, it only says (has pistol grip, has detachable magazine, has bayonet lug etc etc.). If you completely disassemble your SITF rifle it meets none of these requirements and technically doesn't need to be registered. You can have the gun assembled in one configuration, but have the parts for another configuration.

So how's this law help save lives?

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Response to iiibbb (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:06 PM

Star Member discntnt_irny_srcsm (5,666 posts)

8. Like all laws...

...these are handicapped by the willingness of folks to follow them. I guessing the rapists, drug dealers and gang-bangers will all line up at the next buy-back.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:54 PM

Bay Boy (994 posts)

25. Well said n/t

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Response to Bay Boy (Reply #25)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:32 PM

Star Member discntnt_irny_srcsm (5,666 posts)

28. Thanks :) n/t

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:45 PM

upaloopa (2,078 posts)

2. Another distraction post?

There are going to be new laws. I think enough people understand what you are saying and will take it into consideration. So far all I am hearing is things like gun registration.
What ever law is written the gun lobby will find a way around it. Still maybe there will be less mass killing with a new ban then without one. That is the idea any way.
We can't write a law that the gun lobby can't get around or that can stop all gun violence or that the bad guys will obey but we will have a new law. Some future mass killing will have been averted and that is a good thing.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:52 PM

Star Member spin (14,737 posts)

3. I doubt that any legislation requiring firearm registration at a national level ...

will pass Congress.

Firearm registration is actually illegal in Florida.

2012 Florida Statutes
The Legislature finds and declares that:
1. The right of individuals to keep and bear arms is guaranteed under both the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and s. 8, Art. I of the State Constitution.
2. A list, record, or registry of legally owned firearms or law-abiding firearm owners is not a law enforcement tool and can become an instrument for profiling, harassing, or abusing law-abiding citizens based on their choice to own a firearm and exercise their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under the United States Constitution. Further, such a list, record, or registry has the potential to fall into the wrong hands and become a shopping list for thieves.
3. A list, record, or registry of legally owned firearms or law-abiding firearm owners is not a tool for fighting terrorism, but rather is an instrument that can be used as a means to profile innocent citizens and to harass and abuse American citizens based solely on their choice to own firearms and exercise their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under the United States Constitution.
4. Law-abiding firearm owners whose names have been illegally recorded in a list, record, or registry are entitled to redress.
http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2012/790.335

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Response to spin (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:01 PM

upaloopa (2,078 posts)

6. Time will tell. I keep saying and am sure it is true.

The more guns there are the more gun violence there will be. The more gun violence there is the more will be the call for new gun legislation. The more call for legislation the weaker the gun lobby becomes. The weaker the gun lobby becomes the sooner there will be new gun legislation.
The gun lobby is it's own worse enemy.
It is the way of things that nothing remains constant. Not even the power of the gun lobby.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:48 PM

Lurks Often (1,336 posts)

9. Please explain Vermont

and Montana and North Dakota and the other states where there are plenty of firearms and very little firearms related crime.

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Response to Lurks Often (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:51 PM

upaloopa (2,078 posts)

10. Small population

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:53 PM

Lurks Often (1,336 posts)

12. So than maybe it isn't about the guns,

it's about social & ecnomic problems and population pressures.

Of course fixing those takes time and patience and lots and lots of money and we lack all three.

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Response to Lurks Often (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:55 PM

upaloopa (2,078 posts)

13. When someone kills 20 kids in a school it is about guns .

Still deflecting.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:42 PM

Lurks Often (1,336 posts)

20. And yet children die every day in the cities like Chicago,

Boston, Baltimore, Los Angeles and Washington DC and you've made little to no effort to address their deaths.

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Response to Lurks Often (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:58 PM

upaloopa (2,078 posts)

14. You understand algebra I assume

Equation
Guns + societal problems = gun violence.
What can we eliminate the easiest from the equation? You said one of them takes a long time to fix.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:23 PM

Star Member discntnt_irny_srcsm (5,666 posts)

16. IMHO...

...the societal problems will take a long time to "fix" but they will probably net results faster than making feel good laws. "Fixing" how many guns are in private circulation won't take a long time, it'll take forever.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:37 PM

upaloopa (2,078 posts)

18. We can reduce the number of guns by

Last edited Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:39 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

gun by backs, destroying guns used in commiting crimes, restricting sales and many other ideas.
Hopefully only leaving guns in the hands of those who will not harm society with them as much as possible.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #18)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:31 PM

Star Member discntnt_irny_srcsm (5,666 posts)

27. gun by backs...

...and enforcing "feel good" laws will have little effect. It's just money better spent elsewhere.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:39 PM

Lurks Often (1,336 posts)

19. Your equation is flawed

guns do not always equal gun violence or else with 80 million gun owners and 300 million+ guns, there would be a lot more violence.

NONE of your posts has ever proposed something that would make a difference in reducing crime or mass shootings.

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Response to Lurks Often (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:42 PM

upaloopa (2,078 posts)

21. You accept only perfection which you know as well

as I can't happen. We can reduce gun violence not end it by reducing the number of guns and trying as best we can to not let people who would harm society have access to guns.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #21)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:54 PM

Lurks Often (1,336 posts)

26. We reduce gun violence by putting

any criminal who uses a gun in jail for a long time.

"not let people who would harm society have access to guns" We need better mental health, we need to get better at recognizing the warning signs and making treatment easier.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:03 PM

Star Member discntnt_irny_srcsm (5,666 posts)

7. re: "...the gun lobby will find a way around it."

Well, most laws I've heard of, will not require high priced attorneys nor lobbyists with infinite expense accounts to defeat them. Most laws I've heard of (that stand a chance of passing) could be circumvented by anyone owning some hand tools and having enough skill to build a bicycle from a kit.

Yes, a "distraction post"; rather appropriate for these "distraction laws" under consideration.


Please highlight the last "mass killing" where a lobbyist was convicted.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:53 PM

upaloopa (2,078 posts)

11. Stop asking me stupid questions. I'm not here for gunner

Last edited Tue Jan 22, 2013, 04:53 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

debate sport

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:15 PM

Star Member discntnt_irny_srcsm (5,666 posts)

15. re: "...I'm not here for gunner debate sport"

Posting less gunner debate fodder would help just as well as your simple request.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:34 PM

upaloopa (2,078 posts)

17. That's true but I'm not here to play games.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:42 PM

Star Member Tuesday Afternoon (43,912 posts)

22. that is debatable.

continue.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #22)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:44 PM

upaloopa (2,078 posts)

23. Time to end this addition.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:45 PM

Star Member Tuesday Afternoon (43,912 posts)

24. I think you mean edition but, pray - do Carry On with the addition

seems you have issues with algebra . . .

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