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Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:59 PM

Man carries a gun into a city council meeting, caught on video!



And best of all in the end, they get it RIGHT!!

72 replies, 4493 views

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Reply Man carries a gun into a city council meeting, caught on video! (Original post)
virginia mountainman Jan 2013 OP
jpak Jan 2013 #1
virginia mountainman Jan 2013 #8
holdencaufield Jan 2013 #10
ehrenfeucht games Jan 2013 #58
holdencaufield Jan 2013 #59
spin Jan 2013 #66
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #61
jpak Jan 2013 #13
iiibbb Jan 2013 #14
jpak Jan 2013 #17
holdencaufield Jan 2013 #19
jpak Jan 2013 #20
iiibbb Jan 2013 #29
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #63
friendly_iconoclast Jan 2013 #72
iiibbb Jan 2013 #24
virginia mountainman Jan 2013 #15
holdencaufield Jan 2013 #16
jpak Jan 2013 #18
holdencaufield Jan 2013 #21
jpak Jan 2013 #22
holdencaufield Jan 2013 #23
jpak Jan 2013 #25
holdencaufield Jan 2013 #26
guardian Jan 2013 #65
ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #27
Clames Jan 2013 #37
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #62
ZombieHorde Jan 2013 #52
holdencaufield Jan 2013 #2
peacebird Jan 2013 #3
gejohnston Jan 2013 #4
BanzaiBonnie Jan 2013 #5
holdencaufield Jan 2013 #7
virginia mountainman Jan 2013 #9
raidert05 Jan 2013 #6
Jarhead1775 Jan 2013 #11
iiibbb Jan 2013 #12
another_liberal Jan 2013 #28
iiibbb Jan 2013 #30
another_liberal Jan 2013 #31
gejohnston Jan 2013 #32
another_liberal Jan 2013 #40
iiibbb Jan 2013 #33
another_liberal Jan 2013 #38
holdencaufield Jan 2013 #45
holdencaufield Jan 2013 #34
another_liberal Jan 2013 #35
holdencaufield Jan 2013 #36
another_liberal Jan 2013 #39
gejohnston Jan 2013 #41
another_liberal Jan 2013 #44
holdencaufield Jan 2013 #46
another_liberal Jan 2013 #48
gejohnston Jan 2013 #49
another_liberal Jan 2013 #50
holdencaufield Jan 2013 #42
ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #43
another_liberal Jan 2013 #47
ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #54
another_liberal Jan 2013 #60
ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #64
another_liberal Jan 2013 #70
holdencaufield Jan 2013 #71
iiibbb Jan 2013 #56
raidert05 Jan 2013 #55
mokawanis Jan 2013 #51
gejohnston Jan 2013 #53
iiibbb Jan 2013 #57
spin Jan 2013 #67
ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #68
spin Jan 2013 #69

Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:04 PM

1. Vigilante wannabee - he wants to "protect people"

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:12 PM

8. So you have no issue with the council members trying to BREAK the law??

The biggest issue their is you have elected officials so willing to break the law. Than pout when they don't get too.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:17 PM

10. It was precious ...

 

... to see the defeated councilman take his ball and go home.

I can just imagine who will be playing him in the movie. I'm thinking Michael Gaston?

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:54 AM

58. You see intimidation of politicians using guns as a good thing? Something to be aplauded?

 

It was precious ...

... to see the defeated councilman take his ball and go home.


This is sick.

I'll bet you just loved the NRA's recient Sasha and Malia video ad.

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Response to ehrenfeucht games (Reply #58)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:05 AM

59. If you believe this was intimidation ...

 

... you clearly didn't watch the video.

The councilman in question was spoiling for a fight -- wanted the citizen thrown out of the meeting he was lawfully and politely addressing and acted like a spoiled child when things didn't go his way.

If this is your idea of intimidation then I admire your lack of experience.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #59)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:40 PM

66. Delete ...replied to wrong post.

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Response to ehrenfeucht games (Reply #58)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 11:52 AM

61. I can't help your "sickness;" see a doctor. But as to this

video, there is no evidence the Oak Harbor citizen was coercing anyone; esp. since the council AND citizens were evidently unaware as to whether or not the citizen was armed until he volunteered that information!

The two council members, on the other hand, tried to coerce (illegally) the citizen by forcing his removal.

You got it backwards.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:37 PM

13. I have an issue with vigilantes

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #13)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:59 PM

14. define, because I don't think it means what you think it means

 

but I agree vigilantes are bad... but using a gun in the heat of the moment isn't vigilantism

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Response to iiibbb (Reply #14)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:25 PM

17. right wing douchebag + gun = vigilante

they suck

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #17)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:29 PM

19. What makes you think he's Right Wing?

 

Because he is a veteran? Was it his haircut that tipped you off?

I don't remember hearing the man discuss politics -- other than his support for the 2A -- at all. How did you conclude he is either right wing or a douchebag or both?

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #19)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:30 PM

20. All that and the aura of douchebaggery that enveloped his haircut

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 12:18 AM

29. all I've got to go by is

 

his haircut, and your threads/posts....

I think you have him beat

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Response to jpak (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 11:57 AM

63. You were standing that close?

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Response to jpak (Reply #20)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 02:03 AM

72. The Yardbirds had a song about people like you...

Hint: listen to the lyrics.

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Response to jpak (Reply #17)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:42 PM

24. That definition from Urban Dictionary then?

 

You calling him a right wing douche is pretty obnoxious considering you know nothing

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Response to jpak (Reply #13)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:04 PM

15. You know by ATTEMPTING to ban him.. They may have broke the law...

RCW 26A.56.110:

“Whenever any legal voter of the state or of any political subdivision thereof, either individually or on behalf of an organization, desires to demand the recall and discharge of any elective public officer of the state or of such political subdivision, as the case may be, under the provisions of sections 33 and 34 of Article 1 of the Constitution, the voter shall prepare a typewritten charge, reciting that such officer, naming him or her and giving the title of the office, has committed an act or acts of malfeasance, or an act or acts of misfeasance while in office, or has violated the oath of office, or has been guilty of any two or more of the acts...specified in the Constitution as grounds for recall. The charge shall state the act or acts complained of in concise language, give a detailed description including the approximate date, location, and nature of each act complained of, be signed by the person or persons making the charge, give their respective post office addresses, and be verified under oath that the person or persons believe the charge or charges to be true and have knowledge of the alleged facts upon which the stated grounds for recall are based.
For the purposes of this chapter:

(1) "Misfeasance" or "malfeasance" in office means any wrongful conduct that affects, interrupts, or interferes with the performance of official duty;.
(a) Additionally, "misfeasance" in office means the performance of a duty in an improper manner; and.
(b) Additionally, "malfeasance" in office means the commission of an unlawful act;.

(2) "Violation of the oath of office" means the neglect or knowing failure by an elective public officer to perform faithfully a duty imposed by law. “


Councilman Almberg , and Councilman Servatius need to have this brought to their attention......

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Response to jpak (Reply #13)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:08 PM

16. According to Websters ...

 

Vigilante: A member of a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish crime summarily (as when the processes of law are viewed as inadequate); broadly : a self-appointed doer of justice

What I heard the man say was that he carries so that "IF there was an issue, I would protect any person , whether I knew them or not, with my own life"

The man is not a vigilante according to Websters. He isn't part of a committee to suppress and punish crime and he isn't a self-appointed doer of justice. He isn't seeking out crime to stop or criminals to punish. He is merely a decent citizen who is prepared to do what I would hope anyone would do IF there was an issue. Come to the aid of those in need.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #16)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:28 PM

18. These assholes are the gun nuts worst enemy

You want yer guns grabbed.

Act like this douchebag

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #18)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:31 PM

21. Are you watching the same video?

 

All I saw was a polite, young man who has served his country. He didn't threaten or complain? On the contrary, the only person in that room who was an arsehole was the petulant councilman who took his books and went home when he didn't get his way.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #21)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:33 PM

22. After the asshole guntoter said he wanted to "protect people"

I saw all I needed to see.

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #22)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:39 PM

23. I would hope that I ...

 

... have the courage and bravery to protect someone who needed protection. Not to seek out wrongs and put them right, but just to -- if there was a situation -- do the right thing. To help a neighbour put out a fire, to give food to someone in need or yes, to even stop a bully if that was within my power.

Does that make me an arsehole? If so, I don't begrudge the moniker in the least.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #23)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:43 PM

25. He needs to wear a cape and tights

not a fucking concealed handgun

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #25)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:48 PM

26. Rex O'Herlihan Sez ...

 

"The way a person dresses is nobody's business but his or her own. "




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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 02:44 PM

65. Pretty good

 

but this is a better way to dress

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Response to jpak (Reply #25)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 11:58 PM

27. We already have one of those.

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Response to jpak (Reply #18)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 12:46 AM

37. Gun toting douchebag...

 

...right here.

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Response to jpak (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 11:55 AM

62. You're in the wrong thread, then. nt

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Response to jpak (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:54 AM

52. Vigilantes and police officers have the same authority.

Imaginary authority.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:08 PM

2. Where is Oak Harbour?

 

Sounds like a great place to live.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:10 PM

3. I would say they get it wrong in the end. I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree,

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Response to peacebird (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:22 PM

4. they were respecting the Washington's preemption law

Some states do not allow being armed in such meetings or any political gatherings, Wyoming and Florida being among them.

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Response to peacebird (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:34 PM

5. So wrong...

And now I know to stay away from Oak Harbor.

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Response to BanzaiBonnie (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:58 PM

7. Did they invite you?

 

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Response to BanzaiBonnie (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:13 PM

9. Yea, Chicago is much safer... nt

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:49 PM

6. They actually got it right

 

Washington Prohibited Area for Firearms:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300

City Council Chambers are excluded from that law.

More Info to be had here:
http://www.islandpolitics.org/?p=8732


We have a situation in our City Council where certain Council members feel that the oath of office they take is not meant for them. Councilman Almberg swore an oath when taking his position as a Councilman to support and uphold the laws and Constitution of our State, he has been repeatedly informed in council meetings that the State of Washington has preempted the ability of cities and counties to make laws that are in conflict with our state laws concerning firearms including restricting their carry in any areas that are not outlined in our State laws. City Council chambers are excluded from those laws.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:20 PM

11. Chill

On the paranoia....

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:31 PM

12. brouhaha - seems to be apt here.

 

Whether I feel the need to carry all of the time (and I don't)---- This kind of person is so not the problem.

People should just chill.

Permit holders register themselves, the submit themselves to a pretty comprehensive vetting by the state, and they get trained. They are icons of of the "reasonable" gun control movement and should be lauded.

Unfortunately "Reasonable" goes out the window when rubber meets road.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 12:15 AM

28. Uncomfortable? Why uncomfortable?

Last edited Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:02 AM - Edit history (1)

What's there to be uncomfortable about? It's just a guy who feels he has to brag about the fact he's carrying a concealed weapon at a public meeting. What could possibly go wrong?

Did you notice how many of the visitors left?

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 12:23 AM

30. have these exchanges erupted in violence before?

 

common sense gun control says licensing, registering, training, background checks...

He's a handgun control poster boy for Pete's sake. You guys should be in love with him

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Response to iiibbb (Reply #30)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 12:30 AM

31. Remember Harvey Milk?

I confess, it would have made me "uncomfortable" too.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 12:33 AM

32. he was assassinated with an SFPD issued revolver

by a former cop and fellow council member

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #32)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 12:58 AM

40. Correct.

Shot dead in a City Hall, full of police officers, by an angry man with a concealed weapon.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 12:34 AM

33. Was Milk shot at a meeting by someone who admitted having a gun

 

or are these situations in no way similar seeing as nothing happened.

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Response to iiibbb (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 12:47 AM

38. No, he was not killed at a City Council meeting.

But he was a city official, and he was murdered by someone carrying a concealed gun.

You would have stayed, I assume. I, like most of the visitors who were there initially, would have left immediately.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #38)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:14 AM

45. Was Dan White a properly licensed CC permit holder?

 

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 12:35 AM

34. Brag?

 

He had to be asked ... and only then did he answer.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #34)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 12:40 AM

35. Point taken.

I should have said, "After being asked, he bragged . . ."

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #35)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 12:41 AM

36. You say bragged ...

 

... I say refused to lie.

Would you have felt less uncomfortable if he lied?

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 12:52 AM

39. I think he should . . .

I think he should have left his weapon at home. At the very least, he should have checked it at the door.

Why go out of your way to frighten people and disrupt an official meeting? All of those people who left the room had come there with something to say. Weren't their rights violated?

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #39)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:04 AM

41. Not a fan of Albert Ellis?

He developed Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy. He would say that they they made themselves feel frightened, especially since the guy simply answered a question asked of him. Should he have left it home or the car? Perhaps. Don't know his situation or why he carries. Or, he could have simply lied or chose not to answer the question.
FWIW, my personally, I would not have carried for a couple of reasons. First, I don't have a CCW permit. Second, the two states I bounce between (Wyoming and Florida) it would be a violation of state law to carry concealed in any political gathering or official building.

Were their rights violated? They made their own decision of their own free will. I would have stayed.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #41)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:14 AM

44. Being able to feel fear . . .

Being able to feel fear is a basic survival instinct, right? Let's not blame those who were frightened and fled the room.

The guy may have been completely within his rights to carry a gun there, but he might have thought a little about the first Amendment rights of those who also came to that meeting with something to say. Many of them will likely never go to another such meeting, they have been effectively silenced.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #44)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:17 AM

46. I don't believe irrational fears ...

 

... are Constitutionally protected.

If they were, I could call 911 every time I find a spider in my bathtub.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #46)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:22 AM

48. Pardon me . . .

Pardon me, but this is getting kind of redundant.

Please refer to my earlier posts. I hope they will suffice for an explanation of my opinions.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #44)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:26 AM

49. besides the council member, who left?

Yes, and it is rational if there is a clear threat. If he was waving it around or making threats etc. then you would be correct. Since none of that was the case, not so much. Not blaming them, but find any fear a little less than rational since he was not making any threatening words or gestures. Part of that is culture too. I grew up around guns, hunters, and cops in Wyoming. I went to the first Gulf War and stood in lines with people with loaded machine guns. So, it is a little harder to wrap my mind around it. Kind of like Vincente Fox not getting GWB's fear of horses.

Or they can lobby the folks in Olympia to amend the law to be more like Wyoming and Florida in that regard.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #49)


Response to another_liberal (Reply #39)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:10 AM

42. Was there a facility to check his weapon?

 

Was he violating the law?

Did he make any threats -- direct or implied? In what way did he even go out of his way to frighten or disrupt?

If it's legal -- as it clearly is -- to carry a concealed weapon under those circumstance, and he only revealed that he was carrying under the questioning of a petulant councilman, and he made no threat and offered no form of intimidation, then I would have to say that anyone who left didn't have their rights violated. Actually, they abrogated their own rights through their fears.

If I want to vote -- but, I'm terrified of the colours blue and red -- does putting a flag at the polling place violate my right to vote?

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #39)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:11 AM

43. No one left.

Well, except for the councilman who was out voted.

He frightened no one. He did not disrupt the meeting and was very polite about it.

There was probably no place to check the gun at the door. The only buildings that require lockers for that purpose are the courthouses.

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #43)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:18 AM

47. There were more empty chairs . . .

There were a whole lot more empty chairs in the visitors area after he spoke than before (check the video). Some people left. I would have too.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #47)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 02:27 AM

54. At least half the chairs were removed.

Almost as if they were trying to get the crowd out of the room so that the council could go home early.

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #54)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 08:06 AM

60. True.

I guess that could be an effective means of censoring views and opinions one doesn't agree with? Just show up at the City Council meeting; go on at some length about your permit to carry and conceal; repeatedly pat the place where you piece is hidden (as this guy did) and when asked, admit you are indeed carrying at that moment. Then one would need only watch the room empty out.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #60)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 02:10 PM

64. Well, that is one interpretation of what happened...


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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #64)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:00 PM

70. That is my read . . .

That is my read of what I saw and heard on the video: such a tactic could be used for such a purpose. I haven't had a chance to talk personally with the guy in question.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #60)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 07:20 PM

71. Why go through all that trouble ...

 

... he could have just done this.



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Response to another_liberal (Reply #39)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 06:44 AM

56. Why would you check a weapon, if there is no safe way to store it?

 

Checking puts an undue burden on any officers present. They probably have nowhere to lock it. The probably should be focused on the room.

Like it or not the safest place for it was in it's holster.

Also why risk and accidental discharge. Jpak has been laughing about all the discharges at check stations at gun shows.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:08 AM

55. the video

 

Was edited due to time, the original is like 25-30 minutes long because he stayed behind to talk to the councilman after they adjourned, so no people didn't just stampede out.

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:45 AM

51. Who was he protecting?

There was no need at all to bring a gun to that meeting. The fact that it was legal to do so doesn't make it right. Where was the threat? Why was it necessary?

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Response to mokawanis (Reply #51)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:59 AM

53. ask him. Only he knows.

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Response to mokawanis (Reply #51)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 06:48 AM

57. Maybe the threat is between the meeting and the car.

 

Maybe the threat is on his way home. The unfortunate reality of guns is the can't materialize and dematerialize as you change venues

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Response to virginia mountainman (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 03:45 PM

67. In Florida you can't legally carry a concealed firearm in a council meeting. ...

Usually there is an armed officer at the meetings.

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Response to spin (Reply #67)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:29 PM

68. Knowing your local laws is a good thing!


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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #68)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 05:39 PM

69. And ignorance of the law is no excuse. (n/t)

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