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Tue Jan 15, 2013, 12:24 PM

St. Petersburg man shoots dog while walking his Yorkies (SYG Gun Hero, FL)

http://www2.tbo.com/news/news/2013/jan/14/2/st-petersburg-man-shoots-dog-while-walking-his-yor-ar-606304/

ST. PETERSBURG Eighteen months ago, after a pit bull attacked him while he was walking his two Yorkshire terriers, Allen Coates swore such a thing would never happen again.

History could have repeated itself Sunday afternoon but for one thing, Coates said: the gun he now carries whenever he walks his dogs.

This time, the 67-year-old Brit, who sells continuing-education programs to the construction industry, was carrying a Ruger LCP .380, a handgun so small it fits into the palm of most people's hands. Coates had his gun in the front right pocket of his shorts.

<snip>

Because he feared for his safety and that of his dogs, Coates won't be charged with a crime, St. Petersburg police spokesman Mike Puetz said.

<more>

Another 2nd Amendment Solution...

Poor doggie

48 replies, 3477 views

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Reply St. Petersburg man shoots dog while walking his Yorkies (SYG Gun Hero, FL) (Original post)
jpak Jan 2013 OP
Purveyor Jan 2013 #1
appleannie1 Jan 2013 #2
Clames Jan 2013 #3
jpak Jan 2013 #5
chicoguy Jan 2013 #6
jpak Jan 2013 #7
chicoguy Jan 2013 #8
jpak Jan 2013 #9
upaloopa Jan 2013 #35
LibertyFox Jan 2013 #47
Oneka Jan 2013 #10
jpak Jan 2013 #12
chicoguy Jan 2013 #14
msongs Jan 2013 #15
chicoguy Jan 2013 #19
chicoguy Jan 2013 #20
jpak Jan 2013 #32
JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2013 #28
jpak Jan 2013 #30
upaloopa Jan 2013 #33
Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #37
upaloopa Jan 2013 #44
sarisataka Jan 2013 #46
AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #39
hunter Jan 2013 #29
upaloopa Jan 2013 #45
sinkingfeeling Jan 2013 #4
GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #17
sinkingfeeling Jan 2013 #21
GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #22
sinkingfeeling Jan 2013 #23
GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #24
jpak Jan 2013 #26
sinkingfeeling Jan 2013 #34
AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #43
hunter Jan 2013 #38
GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #11
jpak Jan 2013 #13
GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #16
jpak Jan 2013 #25
gejohnston Jan 2013 #27
jpak Jan 2013 #31
AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #41
mokawanis Jan 2013 #18
AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #42
AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #40
ileus Jan 2013 #36
chairman meow Jan 2013 #48

Response to jpak (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 12:28 PM

1. I sling a 410 shotgun over my shoulder when walking down the lane that crosses 800 acres of woods.

There is a pack of at least 8 coyotes and I'll be damned if, while not usual for them to attack, I'll stand by and watch my dogs get attacked.

Better safe than sorry.

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Response to Purveyor (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 12:35 PM

2. That is totally different than a legally owned pet with the owner standing there.

That guy should fence his yard and be banned from walking his dogs. He is a threat to the other dogs in the neighborhood.

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 12:36 PM

3. Responsible gun owner vs irresponsible pet owner.

 

Gun owner did the right thing.


Yup.

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Response to Clames (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 12:41 PM

5. Bullshit

<snip>

The owner of the dog, Andres Osorio-Rodriguez, tells a different story. He was home, at 2620 Ninth Ave. N., when his dog, Bruno, an American bulldog and hound mix, escaped through an open garage door. Osorio-Rodriguez's sister and her boyfriend, Chad Simmons, chased the animal down the alley.

Osorio-Rodriguez said his sister told him Bruno never growled and had no intention of attacking. Bruno just wanted to play with the Yorkies the same way he played with two Shih-Tzus, another small breed, at home.

His sister and Simmons told Coates that Bruno wasn't going to hurt him, Osorio-Rodriguez said.

"My dog would not even attack a fly," Osorio-Rodriguez said.

<more>

gunslinger fail

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 12:47 PM

6. That sounds like the same story to me.

 


One side said the dog was charging at them, the other side says the dog was running down the ally whilst being chased. Sounds like the same thing to me.

How was this guy supposed to know the dogs intention. The owners of the dog should not have let it run free. If that dog would have attacked a child, we would be having a different discussion.

It is sad that the dog was killed, but I can't blame this guy for protecting himself. Any way you cut it, this could be perceived as a threat to a reasonable person.

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Response to chicoguy (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 01:05 PM

7. They didn't let it "run free" - that is why they were chasing it

If the dead dog owners "feared" the gunman shooting their dog in the street - they could have shot him and got away with it.

gunslinger SYG fail again

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 01:17 PM

8. Well then why did you post a link to this story

 

because the link you posted was talking about a dog, under no ones control, running down an ally, and causing a bystander to fear for his safety, and for the safety of his dogs (who were under control).

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Response to chicoguy (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 01:20 PM

9. It's in the OP - can you read?

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Response to chicoguy (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 03:31 PM

35. Fucking bystander is fucking afraid of everything.

Carry a gun because you're afraid so you have the right to shoot whatever you're afraid of! Paranoia is why they carry guns and the general public and now their pets are at risk!

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #35)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 06:07 PM

47. Having been attacked by a pair of free roaming dogs before

I can completely empathize with this guy.

I was just out jogging when a pair of dogs attacked me. I didn't carry at the time and didn't even own a gun. I was fortunate enough to get away without major injury. If I saw a dog headed towards me again like that I wouldnt hesitate to shoot it and the law would thankfully be on my side since dogs are incapable of mens rea. My own mother started carrying after a loose dog attacked her two westies while she was walking them, she was at least fortunate that the dog's owner eventually heard her shouting for help as she tried to restrain the larger animal and keep it from killing her two smaller dogs.

If carrying makes me paranoid by your definition then I'm ok with it. I'd rather be paranoid by upaloopa's standards than be a complacent sheep that thinks that because emergencies rarely happen that we shouldn't be prepared for them. You do not understand the varied circumstances that people live in nor seem to care if it doesn't fit into your worldview.

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Response to jpak (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 01:21 PM

10. "They didn't let it "run free" "

Yeah they did. Either they had direct physical control of the animal , or they did not.

Bruno didn't charge Coates and the Yorkies head-on, Simmons said. He was running around in a playful mood at one point running past Coates and the Yorkies before running back to Simmons and his girlfriend.

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Response to Oneka (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 01:24 PM

12. It escaped from the garage and they were trying to get the little guy back

But unfortunately, they ran into Mr. Douchebag and his gun.

Gun Nuttery fail again.

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 01:37 PM

14. Oh, I can read.

 

I just don't see what you are talking about in that story.

I read it again. The story says that the dog escaped from the garage (read: the owners lost control of their animal.) It goes on to say that the owners "chased the animal down the alley". That is the same story on both sides. The shooter states "A couple of people were chasing the dog down an alley" and that the dog "approached "snarling at 20 mph"". I don't know if the dog was actually going 20mph, but a snarling dog running at you at full speed would be considered a threat by most reasonable people.

So, what would have been the proper move in your mind? Let the dog possibly attack and kill his dogs. What if instead of walking dogs, the shooter was walking with his kids, should he let the dog attack them before he defends himself?

I am just not sure what you are getting at.

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Response to chicoguy (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 01:42 PM

15. neighbor kid runs down the street, dog owner shoots kid - kid was "out of control" nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 01:47 PM

19. That would be appropriate

 

if you could show me a trend of kids running wild and killing dogs and people.

Not everyone is a dog lover, some people are afraid of these animals. There have been several instances of dogs getting loose and killing other animals, or people.

The neighbor kid is not a deadly threat, a loose dog can be.

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Response to msongs (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 01:51 PM

20. And how many times

 

recently have you seen an article about a police officer shooting a loose dog? I have seen several over the last year. If this was a police officer, do you really think he/she would have done anything different?

Think about it, a dog is running at full speed (apparently snarling) towards a police officer. How likely is it that the cop will shoot?

It is a sad story, but the owners need to be responsible for their animals, but for the lack of vigilance on their part, their dog would be alive today.

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Response to msongs (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 03:25 PM

32. In Florida you can do that - as long as the kid is black

kids & dogs = targets in Gun Nut Paradise

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 03:11 PM

28. "Little guy"? American Bulldogs are not "Little guys".

70-130 lbs

Not little.

nope.

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 03:21 PM

30. Kill it !!!!1111 Kill it NOW!!!11111

yup

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Response to chicoguy (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 03:25 PM

33. Just fucking shoot and ask questions later.

To a gunner anything a gunner does is justified and you wonder why some people want to ban guns.
You just don't fucking shoot everything you're fucking afraid of! He'll fucking gunners are afraid of everything. That's why they carry guns!

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:29 PM

37. So just when, precisely, would shooting have been justified?

After the much larger, nastier dog had one of his Yorkies in its mouth? That would very probably be too late. Sorry, if an animal is acting in a way that a reasonable person could assume indicated an impending attack to my own pet, I'm not going to wait until my pet is dead or savaged before I act.

Not that I walk my cat on a leash...she'd tolerate that about as well she tolerates letting her food bowl get empty.

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:11 PM

44. I don't carry a gun. I am faced with the same threat

anyone is. I think having a gun and feeling you need to carry a gun makes it more certain that someone or something in this case a dog will be shot and that shouldn't have happened. A gun adds an unnessasary tragic aspect to many peaceful situations. This dog should not have been shot.

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:39 PM

46. There are two kinds of self defense shootings

1- before anyone is injured, the attacker was misunderstood-- so shooting is not justified
2- after someone is injured' the gun did not prevent injury and the attack was probably finished-- so shooting is not justified

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Response to jpak (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:46 PM

39. Irresponsible dog owner.

That county has a leash law. The dog was off leash, at large. It also came back for more after it was initially shot.

That seems a highly relevant point.

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Response to Clames (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 03:17 PM

29. I've never been in a situation where me having a gun would have made anything better.

This includes wild animals, angry dogs, armed people who were taking my stuff, or worst case, armed people who were really, really pissed off with me.

If the only tool I have is a hammer then everything looks like a nail. If the only tool I have is a gun... well, you get the idea

If I'd ever wasted any time in bad situation messing about with my guns, things only could have got worse.

Unarmed, my fight, flight, or peacemaking responses are much more effective. Generally my first response is flight. Fighting sucks. Fighters tend to be losers, and that's why bad guys tend to be better fighters than good guys -- they have more practice. And they don't play by any rules.

Usually I do my very best to avoid situations involving gunfire and the easiest way to do that is to avoid carrying a gun myself.

I've been in the exact situation this man and his dogs were in several times, walking small dogs when a big dog charges. Usually it's a playful charge, and the rest of the time it's a false charge that stops if I yell "BAD DOG!" or even if I just yell HEY!" My mom used to have a little dog I'd walk. I'd pick it up quickly when I saw loose dogs because my mom's dog was a nasty little thing that would happily threaten and attack dogs much larger than itself.

Once while walking this dog I had to tackle a big dog to the ground. This dog came up quick and I didn't have time to grab up my mom's dog. When the dog's owner heard the noise, mostly his dog screaming and yelping after I'd pinned it to the ground, he came running out of his garage and was angry at me! Usually people apologize when their dogs get loose and cause trouble like that.

I see elderly men and women in my own neighborhood who carry a golf club or similar sort of stick when they take their own small volatile dogs for a walk. If the guy in the original story had been carrying a golf club instead of a gun there would be no story.

I don't think the man should be prosecuted for shooting the loose dog, but I do think the odds are good he's a foolish fearful man with a gun, and not a "responsible gun owner."

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Response to hunter (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 05:17 PM

45. You put that very well.

I try to say something similar. If someone feels they need to carry a gun, I think they feel more threatened then someone without a gun in similar situations because they are more prone to see the situation as threatening. That's what motivates them to carry a gun. They are looking for trouble so to speak. And thus the self fulfilling prophesy comes true.

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 12:40 PM

4. Another paranoid person with a gun.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 01:45 PM

17. have you ever been bitten by a loose dog? I have. N/T

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 02:31 PM

21. No, but I returned 7 loose dogs to their owners, unharmed, in 2012 and dozens more

over the years. And yes some approached me when I was with my own dogs. Not every loose dog bites something.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #21)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 02:39 PM

22. Most loose dogs are friendly. We even adopted a couple that were dropped off on our street.

But some loose dogs are vicious. I hope you won't try to deny that statement. I have been bitten by loose dogs. If a loose dog is doing the snarling, growling, routine, I believe the dog in its statement. Whether I shoot or not depends upon the circumstances. So far I haven't had to, but a couple of times I almost have. I don't want to be bitten again.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #22)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 02:43 PM

23. And the people trying to get this dog said it wanted to play. The shooter said it was growling.

The only dog to ever bite me was my neighbor's Australian Shepherd. I had just petted him and bent over to pick up my cat when he bit my thigh.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 02:53 PM

24. Comes down to who you believe.

Anti-gun folks will always believe the dog's owners. In either case, the owners had lost control of their dog. The shooter was in his legal rights.

You claim he was paranoid. It isn't being paranoid to believe a dog is agressive is he is doing the snarling, growling, charging rountine.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #24)


Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 03:26 PM

34. It's paranoid IF the dog isn't growling, snarling, or charging.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:54 PM

43. I believe the person that did everything legally, and by the books

rather than the person who was breaking the law.

Chapter 14, Article II, Division 3, Section 14-63 of the Pinellas County Code of Ordinances, both dogs and cats are prohibited from running at large. Two types of dogs are excluded form this ordinance. First, official police dogs are excluded from this provision so long as the dog is engaged by a law enforcement officer in an official capacity. Second, hunting dogs are excluded so long as the dog is engaged in or being trained for the sport of hunting, during a legal hunting season, within an authorized area and under the owner's supervision. Also, if you have a dog or cat that is in heat, the animal must be properly confined in a secure enclosure (a fended area is not sufficient) such that the dog or cat cannot come into contact with another dog or cat, the only exception is when the owners intend to breed the animals.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #17)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:41 PM

38. Yes. I've been bit by loose people too.



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Response to jpak (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 01:22 PM

11. The dog's owner was irresponsible in letting the dog get loose.

After the dog got loose it was legal for anybody that the dog ran up to, to shoot the dog.

Do you let your dog run loose?

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 01:25 PM

13. It escaped from the owners and they were chasing it to get it back

Gun nuttery fail.

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 01:43 PM

16. They were still responsible for the dog.

A loose dog can be a danger to people. I have been bitten by loose dogs, as has my grandaughter and my ex-wife. I have no sympathy for loose running dogs, no matter how they got loose.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 02:58 PM

25. Dogs get away - all dog owners know this. The Gun Nut was irresponsible one

Let us hope his Yorkies never get away from him and meet up with Mr. Gun Nut on the street.

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #25)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 03:05 PM

27. I doubt that because Yorkies haven't been demonized by the media

like Pits have. Kind of like the conditioned fear former New Yorkers seem to have about people in pick up trucks around here.
Name calling: This techniques consists of attaching a negative label to a person or a thing. People engage in this type of behavior when they are trying to avoid supporting their own opinion with facts. Rather than explain what they believe in, they prefer to try to tear their opponent down.

http://academic.cuesta.edu/acasupp/as/404.htm

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #27)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 03:23 PM

31. OK then - a yap dog in the street is a yap dog in my sights - that settles it

No dog left behind.

Bang

Bang

Bang

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #25)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:51 PM

41. Mine don't.

Because I've invested in a fence, I have leashes, crates, kennels, and I have trained my dogs.

I've had about 8 dogs over the decades, not one has run loose/escaped.
Responsible pet owners care for their pets.

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Response to jpak (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 01:46 PM

18. Exactly

The shooter could have tried another way of protecting his pets before he reached for his precious weapon. Gun nuttery fail.

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Response to mokawanis (Reply #18)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:52 PM

42. Dude is 67 years old. What the hell was he supposed to do that wouldn't allow

that dog to make physical contact with his dogs? Once they mix it up, you can't shoot for risk of hitting your own dogs.

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Response to jpak (Reply #13)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:49 PM

40. Let me get this straight.

In the stories you post in the gungeon where a person drops a firearm and it discharges, that equals negligence or carelessness.

But allowing a dog to escape from their control in a county with laws against dogs off leash/roaming free isn't negligence or carelessness?

Just want to get that straight for the record.

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 04:06 PM

36. Coates won't be charged with a crime

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 06:35 PM

48. Yes, the noble response to an attacking dog is to let it kill your own puppy.

 

I understand that's how you think.

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