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Thu Jan 10, 2013, 10:10 AM

So, what's the problem with background checks and sales records for ammo buys?

91 replies, 5211 views

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Reply So, what's the problem with background checks and sales records for ammo buys? (Original post)
jpak Jan 2013 OP
ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #1
Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #2
jpak Jan 2013 #3
Remmah2 Jan 2013 #5
Hangingon Jan 2013 #6
jpak Jan 2013 #7
ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #45
Skyline Jan 2013 #61
rl6214 Jan 2013 #75
safeinOhio Jan 2013 #87
safeinOhio Jan 2013 #86
Remmah2 Jan 2013 #4
jpak Jan 2013 #9
Remmah2 Jan 2013 #79
frylock Jan 2013 #31
JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2013 #8
CreekDog Jan 2013 #78
JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2013 #80
GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #10
Control-Z Jan 2013 #11
GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #12
jpak Jan 2013 #13
krispos42 Jan 2013 #16
jpak Jan 2013 #19
krispos42 Jan 2013 #21
jpak Jan 2013 #33
Bay Boy Jan 2013 #59
ileus Jan 2013 #28
jpak Jan 2013 #38
cbrer Jan 2013 #81
Berserker Jan 2013 #71
krispos42 Jan 2013 #17
upaloopa Jan 2013 #26
GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #30
jpak Jan 2013 #67
GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #69
jpak Jan 2013 #82
Berserker Jan 2013 #73
slackmaster Jan 2013 #14
krispos42 Jan 2013 #15
safeinOhio Jan 2013 #88
madville Jan 2013 #18
jpak Jan 2013 #20
GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #22
guardian Jan 2013 #24
ileus Jan 2013 #29
jpak Jan 2013 #34
GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #43
jpak Jan 2013 #47
GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #52
jpak Jan 2013 #53
GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #83
jpak Jan 2013 #84
GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #85
safeinOhio Jan 2013 #89
GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #91
madville Jan 2013 #23
jpak Jan 2013 #48
madville Jan 2013 #58
jpak Jan 2013 #68
Clames Jan 2013 #32
jpak Jan 2013 #36
Puha Ekapi Jan 2013 #39
jpak Jan 2013 #41
Puha Ekapi Jan 2013 #46
jpak Jan 2013 #49
beevul Jan 2013 #51
Clames Jan 2013 #40
jpak Jan 2013 #42
Clames Jan 2013 #56
bossy22 Jan 2013 #25
jpak Jan 2013 #35
bossy22 Jan 2013 #55
Bay Boy Jan 2013 #62
dkf Jan 2013 #27
jpak Jan 2013 #37
Glaug-Eldare Jan 2013 #44
jpak Jan 2013 #50
shadowrider Jan 2013 #54
Puha Ekapi Jan 2013 #57
Bay Boy Jan 2013 #63
jpak Jan 2013 #72
Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2013 #77
Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2013 #60
ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #64
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #65
spin Jan 2013 #66
jody Jan 2013 #70
spin Jan 2013 #74
Publiuus Jan 2013 #76
safeinOhio Jan 2013 #90

Response to jpak (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 10:38 AM

1. I don't have a problem with either if done reasonably

Make them reasonable in cost and fairly speedy and I am good with checks on all transactions, including gifts and inheritance. I like the FOID model, though other do not.

Sales records for ammo is a very wide open term. There should not be a waiting period or background check to buy a brick of 22LR at a sporting goods store. What do you have in mind?

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 10:44 AM

2. I think it's a good idea.

Simple enough to run a quick NICS check. Because people often buy ammunition is very small quantities, the fee should be a modest percentage of the sale.

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 10:45 AM

3. All ammo purchases -and a searchable federal data base for large quantities

1000 rounds .22 LR

100 rounds everything else.

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Response to jpak (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 10:47 AM

5. The government purchases large quantities.

 

They should be able to account for it as well. Inclusive of public records.

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Response to jpak (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 10:53 AM

6. Who gets to search this database?

Who maintains it? How much does it cost? Is it worth the cost?

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Response to Hangingon (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 10:55 AM

7. FBI - any law enforcement agency - Ammo tax

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:21 PM

45. You have an odd definition of "large".

> All ammo purchases -and a searchable federal data base for large quantities
> 1000 rounds .22 LR
> 100 rounds everything else.

Your suggestion is 2 bricks of .22lr and 2 boxes of handgun ammo. Hardly "large" by any stretch.

Anyone who pratices on a regular basis is buying ammo by the case (1000 rounds) for the bulk discount.

However, I would give you that any mulitple cases of a single caliber might be worth flagging, if there was a reasonable reason for doing so.


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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #45)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 07:18 PM

61. Correct.

 

I use at least 1,500 rounds of 5.56 and 1,000 rounds 9mm a month.

Goin to the gun range is a family event in my family. It gives us time to all get together once a month and have a good time shooting paper targets. Because of this we all chip in to purchase ammo by the cartons. We buy 2 cartons of 5.56(1,000 rounds each) a month and 4 bricks of 9mm(500 rounds) as well.

No one in my family has ever had to use a firearm to hurt anyone and we do not ever plan to, to us its a sport in which the whole family can participate in(all the guns belong to me) and something like this would only inconvenience law abiding people.

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Response to jpak (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 01:14 AM

75. I bought one bucket of 22lr this week and it was 1400 rds

 

I also bought 400 rds of .223, 200 rds of .45acp, 200 rds of .380 auto and a new progressive reloading press...I am going to the range this weekend to train two new shooters and plan to shoot ALL of it up...except for he .223

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Response to rl6214 (Reply #75)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:48 PM

87. Sounds like a legit use, so

why would it bother you, as you would still be able to make the purchase?

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Response to jpak (Reply #3)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:46 PM

86. Good idea on ammo purchases as

it does not prohibit any purchase, only records it.

If the local skinhead militia members buy lots of ammo, the Feds might have an idea of how much, or how much mayhem they are planning on.

Would have no affect on legit target shooters.

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 10:46 AM

4. Sales check on meth and bongs too.

 

Absolutely no problem. Equal treatment for all.

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Response to Remmah2 (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 10:55 AM

9. and background checks for Red Dawn rentals too

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Response to jpak (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 09:29 AM

79. Works for me.

 

Try a good gardening or fly tying video.

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Response to Remmah2 (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 02:25 PM

31. someone should lay off the meth

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 10:55 AM

8. cost? hassle of record-keeping?

... all of our background check agents are busy. Your call is important to us. Please stay on the line ...

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #8)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 09:15 AM

78. based on that argument, sounds like you want us to get rid of the DMV and car registration

can't inconvenience anybody!

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #78)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 11:11 AM

80. based on that argument, sounds like you want registration of gasoline purchases

the OP was about registration of ammo sales, not gun sales.

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 10:58 AM

10. It will accompish nothing while costing much.

Criminals don't use much ammo. The same set of bullets can be used for multiple robberies. A drive-by uses only a few rounds, about one magazine per gun.

There would be no way to track the ammo without a really huge expense and massive record keeping.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:15 AM

11. Like the records kept

Last edited Thu Jan 10, 2013, 02:39 PM - Edit history (1)

on sudafed purchases and many prescription drugs?

It appears we can afford to track all those dangerous moms who are dosing their kids with cold medicine. I don't see why we can't we use that same system for guns and ammo.

Edit: to fix typos from smart phone posting.

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Response to Control-Z (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:22 AM

12. Those records are stupid to keep too.

They also accomplish nothing.

What do you expect tracking ammo sales to accomplish?

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:28 AM

13. Accomplish?- identify ubergun nuts as threats to society

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:50 AM

16. So the state has a list of people that buy a lot of ammo.

What does the state then do?


Arrest him? Seize the ammo? Seize the guns? Put a cop on him 24/7? Prevent him from buying more? Keep him from voting? Keep him from flying? Boarding trains?

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:56 AM

19. Drone Strike

or not....

It would flag gun and ammo hoarders and make sure local law enforcement knows who is a potential threat.

They could issue protection orders as the evidence warrants.

Yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:58 AM

21. "protection orders"

Um, want to clarify that one, skippy?

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #21)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 04:42 PM

33. OK - so a douchebag buys 10 guns and 10,000 rounds of ammo in a month

then expresses hostility to the local school board and school employees.

Said douchebag gets served by a judge with a protection order barring him from 1 mile of the local school and offices.

Or said douchebag expresses his desire for 2nd Amendment solutions to the Democrat Party.

Said douchebag gets served by a judge with a protection order barring him from one mile from the local Democratic Party office.

etc.

Gun Nut Free Zones.

yup



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Response to jpak (Reply #33)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 07:12 PM

59. You know what they say about...

...protection orders. They aren't worth the paper they are written on.

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Response to jpak (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 01:17 PM

28. from or against what/whome?

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #16)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 01:20 AM

81. With our current DHS philosophy, possibly any of the above

 

*However*

GOOD police work finds connections, paths, and trends, and forms hypotheses without ham handed (fisted?) actions.

A significant number of the people who stock up on ammo during sales ARE associated with law enforcement.

But, yes, under current DHS policy, there's a pretty fair chance that any of your potential scenarios could come into play.

Sad statement...

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Response to jpak (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 09:46 PM

71. Do you mean

 

these guys? You should check with them to see if what you proposed is OK?
I don't think they will have a problem registering guns or sales records for ammo.


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Response to Control-Z (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:52 AM

17. Those are to enforce a limit on sudefed purchases

And frankly, the way I and my kid have been sick the last month, I'm probably on some kind of list as well.


If there is no ammo purchasing limit, and ammo never expires, then what's the purpose?

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 01:13 PM

26. Stop this crimnal bull shit will you?

The shooters we are talking about in the news weren't crimnals until they shot a bunch of people.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #26)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 01:40 PM

30. Rampage shooters don't use a lot of ammo either.

Rampage shooters are rare, but get a lot of media when they happen. Ordinary criminals don't get much media attention but because they are common their total damage is far greater. Therefore, I talk about criminals more.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #30)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 08:38 PM

67. You mean these rampage shooters?

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Response to jpak (Reply #67)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 09:28 PM

69. Those were not rampage shooters.

They were bank robbers, and they were an anomoly in their ammo usage. Even so they used only a few hundred rounds at the most. That isn't a truckload of ammo.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #69)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:34 AM

82. What horseshit - it was a shooting rampage - ask the cops

Gun Nuttery Deflection FAIL.

yup

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #26)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 09:57 PM

73. Spin Spin Spin

 

A rapist isn't a rapist until they rape someone. What sense does that make?

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:42 AM

14. Anyone who shouldn't have ammunition should either be in prison or a mental hospital

 

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:48 AM

15. Same problem as showing photo ID to vote

Doesn't do anything except irritate and harass people that you think should be harassed because of their choice to engage in an activity you don't approve of.


Same thing with transvaginal ultrasounds.


How about background checks and sales records for people buying alcohol?

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #15)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:57 PM

88. I think background checks have helped a lot

with the purchase of full autos and CCWs issued. They have also worked with professional licenses like doctors, police officers, CIA agents and teachers. Even getting in to the military now requires background checks.

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:54 AM

18. Why?

What would it accomplish?

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Response to madville (Reply #18)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:58 AM

20. A convicted felon can now walk out of Walmart with a truckload of ammo

This would prevent it.

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 12:12 PM

22. Criminals don't use truckloads of ammo.

How many bullets does it take to hold up a C-store? Usually none.

How many shots in a professional hit? Two or three - max. Often just one. Silenced .22 to the back of the head.

How many shots in a gang drive-by? Usually no more than 90. Assumes three guys shooting, with a 30 round mag apiece.

How many shots in a rampage shooting? Estimate 200.

How many shots in an afternoon of practice by a legal gun owner? Hundreds.

The only people inconvenienced by your law would be legal gun owners. Criminals just don't use very much ammo.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #22)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 01:01 PM

24. "The only people inconvenienced by your law would be legal gun owners."

 

I think that is the whole point of the proposed law.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #22)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 01:21 PM

29. The same as all gun laws....it's about control. They don't like what they can't control.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #22)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 04:45 PM

34. Felons don't need ammo period - why do you want them to buy ammo?

Oh I know....

The Precious

The Precious

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #34)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:13 PM

43. How are you going to stop them from getting some?

They only need tiny amounts for their purposes.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #43)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:34 PM

47. You can start by stopping them from buying them legally at Walmart

Felony ammo buyer apologist fail.

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #47)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:41 PM

52. So he has his wife/girlfriend pick up a box of ammo for him.

What have you accomplished? You can't even prove that she gave him the ammo as individual bullets can't be tracked.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #52)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:45 PM

53. Another asshole that will be convicted of a felony and banned from buying ammo

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #53)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:52 AM

83. Only if caught and convicted.

And the odds of that are extremely low, as in almost zero.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #83)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 12:01 PM

84. If there were ammo sales records, law enforcement could connect the dots

and arrest them.

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #84)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 04:29 PM

85. How?

DA: You purchased ammo last year, and your boyfriend robbed a C-store and shot the clerk.
Person: Yes, and I used it. I don't know where he got his ammo.

The DA now has to prove that the bullets she bought were the same bullets that the boyfriend used. That is next to impossible to do.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #22)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 08:59 PM

89. Good argument to require

records of ALL ammo purchases.
Thanks for the facts needed for that.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #89)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 04:32 PM

91. It has been done before. It didn't accomplish anything. N/T

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Response to jpak (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 12:26 PM

23. That's already a felony

That's already a felony. How did this felon get a gun to begin with? Illegally, same way they would continue to get ammo.

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Response to madville (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:35 PM

48. No it is not

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #48)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 06:51 PM

58. Yes it is illegal for a felon to receive or possess ammunition already

The following cannot receive or possess ammunition or a firearm according to federal law, subject to up to ten years in federal prison:

Felons, illegal aliens, dishonorably discharged military members, illegal drug users, those ruled mentally defective by a court or committed to a mental institution, those subject to a domestic restraining order or those convicted of domestic assault.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/mn/downloads/Firearms%20MN_10.19.10.pdf

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Response to madville (Reply #58)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 08:40 PM

68. But they can BUY ammo with no questions asked

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 04:29 PM

32. Thanks to the shrill cries of gun-control extremists...

 

Wally world, like most others, is out of stock on most bulk ammo. That's what happens when the technically ignorant start flapping their gums of a national stage.


Yup.

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Response to Clames (Reply #32)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 04:48 PM

36. LOL!!!!!111 Gunners want felons to buy ammo

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #36)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 04:56 PM

39. Reasonable people...

...don't want to be hassled by a nonsense law that won't stop criminals.


nope

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Reply #39)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:03 PM

41. Guns everywhere by everybody doesn't stop criminals

Time to throw out the failed policies of the past.

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #41)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:32 PM

46. You still haven't explained...

...how this nonsense law will stop criminals.

nope

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Response to Puha Ekapi (Reply #46)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:36 PM

49. Yeah - banning felons from buying ammo won't stop tax cheats

and assholes that park in handicap spaces.

lol

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #41)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:41 PM

51. You don't mean that.

"Time to throw out the failed policies of the past."

I know you don't mean that.

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Response to jpak (Reply #36)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:00 PM

40. LOL!!! Your failure of reading comprehension.

 

Deliberate dishonesty in your arguments: "Why anti-gunners fail?", for $500 Alex.

Yup.

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Response to Clames (Reply #40)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:04 PM

42. So why do you want felons to buy ammo?

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Response to jpak (Reply #42)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 06:25 PM

56. Show exactly where I stated I did?

 

Oh, you can't? Tough shit. Take your shtick somewhere where it isn't boring, tired, obvious, and lame. People like you have no problems with felons buying anything. The rest of us have the decency to put our energies where they aren't wasted.


Yup.

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 01:09 PM

25. Alot of problems- Mainly because IT'S ALREADY BEEN TRIED BEFORE

well atleast part of it. I'm going to break it down into 2 seperate catagories

Record of sales: From 1968-1986 all handgun ammo sales had to be recorded (requirement was name, adress, age, drivers license number). Mail order sales were banned. It was found that such information was of no use to police. why? because tracking only works if their is a discernable pattern which you can track. Most ammo sales were the purchaser planned to use it for illegal activities did not differ (in amount or type) than regular everyday joes buying for hunting, target, or defense shooting. There was just no difference in buying patters. To put it scientifically, it had 100% sensitivity and 0% specificity.

Background checks: background checks sound good on the surface- hey, we are making sure that only law abiding people buy ammo- but in reality would do very little. The reason for this is that the smaller and more widely produced an item is, the harder it is to track. Essentially all that you would garuntee would be that a guy with a rap sheet can't buy from a store- but that isn't stopping him from having someone else buy it for him (ammo straw purchase). Even if you made that illegal, there is just no way to enforce it. Ammo doesn't have a serial number and you still fall into the same problems as the record of sales- you cannot determine a pattern difference between straw ammo buyers- you would be searching for waldo in a sea of waldo look alikes. The amount of resources that would be required to even make this worthwhile is well beyond what the nation's law enforcement can spare.

The only way for these hypothetical things to work would be to have a serial number on ever bullet. You would have to prohibit ammo transfers in almost all cases unless someone went through a dealer. You would have to ban reloading of ammunition- but the only way to do effectively enforce that would be to ban reloading equipment. Reloading equipment isn't technologically complicated and I garuntee you that if you ban reloading presses, someone would find some other peice of equipment that could do the job just as well. You would essentially have to heavilty regulate the entire metal-works industry. You would have have to treat anyone who owns any peice of equipment that can be used to modify metal (drill press, lathe..etc) as a potential criminal.

Essentially, this process would end up looking like "war on drugs". Lots and lots of money and resources being thrown at a problem with questionable results

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Response to bossy22 (Reply #25)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 04:47 PM

35. Yeah - way before personal computers were widely used

With today's IT, it will be a breeze to keep track of the gun CULTurist nuts that pose a threat to us all..

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #35)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 06:20 PM

55. you obviously aren't an IT person

data mining only can go so far without the "human eye". All you would compile would be an extremely long list of american citizens. then what?

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Response to jpak (Reply #35)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 07:26 PM

62. Was Lanza or the CO shooter

a gun culturist? Would they have been stopped by what you propose?

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 01:16 PM

27. Wouldn't that just be a target list for confiscation?

 

People with guns are already mega suspicious. There is not enough trust to be happy with all this tracking.

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Response to dkf (Reply #27)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 04:49 PM

37. Red Dawn was only a movie - it was not real

Pity the poor Delicate Flowers - if they are "law abiders" they have nothing to fear.

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #37)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:20 PM

44. Problem is, the grab nuts have made their intentions clear.

"Nobody's gonna take your guns" is, and has always been, a lie to try and creep far enough toward prohibition that trickery and bad faith diplomacy won't be necessary anymore.

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Response to Glaug-Eldare (Reply #44)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:38 PM

50. Paranoia is a mental illness - that can be used to grab your guns

loose lips...etc.

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Response to jpak (Reply #37)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 05:53 PM

54. Would you have a problem

with the police knocking on your door at 8 p.m. to do a full house search without a warrant? After all, if you're law abiding, you have nothing to fear, right?

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Response to shadowrider (Reply #54)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 06:49 PM

57. What...

...could possibly go wrong with that?

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Response to shadowrider (Reply #54)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 07:29 PM

63. It would be OK if...

...they are only looking for ammo, I suppose.

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Response to shadowrider (Reply #54)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 09:50 PM

72. No - I want squadrons of Black Helicopters deploying Squads of Jackbooted Blue Helmets

Kicking down doors and extracting guns from fingers

without warrants

yup



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Response to jpak (Reply #72)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 07:43 AM

77. no dude. black helmets - who needs a warrant when you have guns and drones?

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 07:16 PM

60. I think it is a great idea. We need to keep lists on everybody about every little thing they do.

Baby Jesus likes that. yep

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 07:36 PM

64. The problem is usually with the implementation details.

Good idea: all sales get background checks on the buyer.

Poor implementation: all sales need to go through an FFL-ed dealer for the background check.

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 07:44 PM

65. 'Background checks' who said there's a problem?

'Sales records' if there was a background check why keep a record?
Might be a privacy issue.

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 08:20 PM

66. I remember many years ago that sales records for any handgun ammo was tracked ...

in Florida. I had to show my driver's license and sign a form every time I bought a box of .22 caliber ammo for target shooting. It accomplished nothing and eventually was abandoned as a waste of time.

I feel a better idea would be that any person wishing to buy ammunition should be required to show a photo ID that showed he/she had firearm safety training and had passed a background check. My Florida concealed weapons permit would serve that purpose. The initial state fee for the required fingerprinting, background check and processing for a Florida carry permit is $112 and the license is good for 7 years. Of course the fee for firearm safety training if you have no proof that you have had it in the past, would have to be added. The renewal fee for a Florida carry permit is only $60 and is also good for 7 years. (Of course a similar license could be issued that would allow a person to buy ammo but not to carry concealed if the state wished to impose different requirements for concealed carry.)

Scuba divers have to show a card to get air for their tanks and a sky diver has a card that shows that he/she has completed a class on sky diving when he arrives at a drop zone.

Now while I consider this a fairly sensible idea, I doubt that the NRA would agree and it would be hard to pass such a law at a national Level.




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Response to spin (Reply #66)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 09:39 PM

70. spin, what would an ID check do? It's easily avoided and ammunition can be used by anyone.

 

If everyone is so enamored with ID checking, why not just add a code to a driver's license showing the holder is a law-abiding citizen with all civil rights available including driving, voting, speech, religion, RKBA, buying ammunition, buying alcohol, etc.

Just do everything at one time and accept 1984 and Brave New World. May as well attach a tracking chip at the same time.

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Response to jody (Reply #70)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:15 PM

74. Adding a code to a driver's license is a possibility that's worth considering ...

but since a criminal background check would have to be run it would be an unnecessary burden and expense on those who had no desire to buy ammunition.

Obviously many Christians would oppose a tracking chip because they would feel that it might be the "mark of the beast."

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Response to jpak (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:35 AM

76. What if they make their own?

 

Most real gun nuts make their own ammo. Why should they get it at Walmart when they can get it almost free by making it. They make millions of rounds from wheel weights they melt down in their garage. It's like have a garden of mayhem!

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Response to Publiuus (Reply #76)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:08 PM

90. Most criminals wouldn't have any idea

of how to make ammo. It would be very hard to control the sale of lead, gun powder, not so much.

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