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Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:16 PM

So please tell me this gun owners...

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by krispos42 (a host of the Gun Control & RKBA group).

1: How many rounds do you need to kill a single deer?

2: Do you actually use an assault rifle to hunt game and if you do, what kind of game do you kill with an assault rifle?

3: Do you actually use a handgun to hunt, and if you do, what kind of game do you kill with a handgun?


Just curious.

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 49 replies Author Time Post
Reply So please tell me this gun owners... (Original post)
RoccoR5955 Jan 2013 OP
rrneck Jan 2013 #1
holdencaufield Jan 2013 #2
upaloopa Jan 2013 #7
holdencaufield Jan 2013 #11
ellisonz Jan 2013 #33
SQUEE Jan 2013 #34
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #12
RoccoR5955 Jan 2013 #31
ileus Jan 2013 #3
Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2013 #37
upaloopa Jan 2013 #4
gejohnston Jan 2013 #13
Flyboy_451 Jan 2013 #19
ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #22
Glassunion Jan 2013 #5
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #6
holdencaufield Jan 2013 #9
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #14
gejohnston Jan 2013 #8
upaloopa Jan 2013 #10
ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #23
Flyboy_451 Jan 2013 #15
armueller2001 Jan 2013 #16
sarisataka Jan 2013 #17
slackmaster Jan 2013 #18
Common Sense Party Jan 2013 #20
ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #21
doc03 Jan 2013 #24
hack89 Jan 2013 #25
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #28
hack89 Jan 2013 #30
oneshooter Jan 2013 #38
jimmy the one Jan 2013 #26
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #27
discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #29
oldhippie Jan 2013 #32
ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #35
Common Sense Party Jan 2013 #44
ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #45
Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2013 #36
Common Sense Party Jan 2013 #41
Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2013 #42
Common Sense Party Jan 2013 #43
Riftaxe Jan 2013 #47
Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2013 #48
Riftaxe Jan 2013 #39
LibertyFox Jan 2013 #40
krispos42 Jan 2013 #46
krispos42 Jan 2013 #49

Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:20 PM

1. They're all the same.

The bullets go in the bottom and out the front. Bullets is bullets. Semi automatic rifles are all the same. Some just look different than others.

I haven't hunted in many years, but the last I heard there was a five round limit in the mag. Some people hunt with a handgun, but it isn't the kind of handgun people carry for self defense (usually). Hunting handguns tend to be very large and heavy.

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:21 PM

2. Tell me this ...

 

... is hunting the only legitimate reason to own firearms?

Does the Constitution stipulate you must demonstrate need to keep and bear arms?

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:27 PM

7. Why answer a question with a question?

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #7)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:30 PM

11. It's an ethnic thing ...

 

... look it up

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:36 PM

33. You're going to make the oh if only the Jews had guns argument?

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:47 PM

34. bubbe loves your answer

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #7)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:30 PM

12. HC's question can be...

...inferred as relevant by the forum in which it is being asked.

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:31 PM

31. I didn't ask that

I asked the question for a personal reason.

I don't care what your "legitimate" reasons are to own firearms. And the Constitution does, in fact, stipulate a need to keep and bear arms.

In case you haven't read it here it goes, AGAIN: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

One may infer from the writing of this Amendment, that the need to keep and bear arms is necessary to the security of a free State.

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:22 PM

3. So the 2A is only about hunting?

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Response to ileus (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:58 PM

37. where does it say that? I keep looking for it. Perhaps, you can show me -

thanks.

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:24 PM

4. I'm not a gunner but just saying. The m-16 was made for

spraying an area with rounds. The AR-15 is patterned after the M-16. They weren't made to hunt with. If you kill a deer with a semi-automatic rifle you are not a sportsman. If you only shoot one round at a time why use an AR-15?
In the effort to reduce replys, I am not an expert on gun technology or nomenclature but my idea is still valid.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #4)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:30 PM

13. funny,

we were taught to use the peep sights and forbidden to use the full auto. I'm guessing you were never in the military either. Your idea would be valid if we were talking about sub machine guns.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #4)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:50 PM

19. I realize that deer is probably the most commonly hunted animal in the U.S.

but why is this the only metric that is ever vocalized by gun control proponents?

If you kill a deer with a semi-automatic rifle you are not a sportsman.


Why would you say this? How does the firearm used effect whether or not one is thought of as a sportsman? One of the aspects of sportsmanship in the field is striving for a humane kill. Having the ability to deliver a quick follow up shot on a wounded animal is not a bad thing. Granted, a one shot kill is very much preferred and should be the goal, but would you prefer that a wounded animal be allowed to escape and die slowly and painfully, or that a second shot is readily available in such a situation?

JW

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #4)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:03 PM

22. Semi automatic rifles have been used for most of the 20th century to hunt deer

The older ones look just like other hunting rifles except for the lack of a bolt handle. Many have fixed magazines.

Regardless of type of action (bolt or semi automatic) there are magazine and caliber limitations that must be followed.

An AR is not just available in .223, but in many conventional hunting calibers. Perfectly reasonable to hunt deer with an AR in 308 and a suitable (short) magazine.

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:25 PM

5. Answers

1. Thousands - The first few thousand are practice, the last one or maybe two are for the deer.
2. Depends on what one considers an assault rifle, however I have shot many an elk with one; if your definition is that of a firearm that is a semi-auto black rifle.
3. Personally I have never hunted with a handgun.

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:26 PM

6. I hate rain on this parade but...

...unless there is a more complicated (and unexpressed) agenda behind these questions, you're in the wrong group.
Were you looking for outdoor life?

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:29 PM

9. You're just so cynical

 

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #9)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:32 PM

14. I work in tech...

...in Systems Engineering and Verification and Validation (V&V). With a bit of practice you get good at breaking stuff.

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:27 PM

8. more to it than that

one or two, put one has to practice year round. It isn't like riding a bike.

Do you actually use an assault rifle to hunt game and if you do, what kind of game do you kill with an assault rifle?
Assault rifles are machine guns and I can't possess a machine gun in the wild in Wyoming. There is also the National Firearms Act of 1934 (I was in a debate with a gun control advocate that actually thought it sunsetted with the AWB. I find it annoying that gun control advocates are completely uninformed about the technology but also current laws.) Now if we are talking about rifles that are sometimes called "assault weapons", which is a propaganda term with no meaning, that depends on the caliber and the state. The .223 round is not powerful enough for deer in many states, but a .308 is legal. I busted a gut when McCrystal made up the "too powerful for civilians" bullshit. Most states limit five round magazines for hunting.

I only hunted small game with a handgun, like rabbits.

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:29 PM

10. Seems you struck a nerve

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:05 PM

23. We do our best to teach the uninformed and help those seeking knowledge

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:33 PM

15. I'll play along...

1: generally speaking, one round is commonly sufficient, but a follow-up shot is not so uncommon as to be unheard of.

2: If by "assault rifle" you mean "assault weapon" as defined by the 1994 AWB, yes, I do on occasion use one for hunting. Typical animals include prairie dogs, deer, and wild hog.

2: This is actually my preferred choice for the majority of my hunting. Animals taken with a handgun include several squirrel, rabbits, deer, hogs, 4 elk, 1 caribou, and two American Buffalo.

Curious, why do you ask only about hunting? Are there other purposes that you think are acceptable uses of firearms?

JW

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:35 PM

16. wrong forum

The second amendment has nothing to do with hunting.

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:39 PM

17. OK...

with the caveat that I rarely hunt

1: One if you have trained yourself to be proficient and pass on marginal shots

2: I have used a black semi-auto rifle for varmint hunting, most under 10 lb. animals. If I am going after deer or antelope, I like .270 as a minimum caliber. I could get a black semi-auto that chambers a similar caliber, but I already have a perfectly good Sako M74 Super.

3: I have used a .22 pistol on varmints but prefer the rifle.

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:44 PM

18. 1. I don't hunt. 2. I don't own an assault rifle. 3. See reply #1.

 

If I did hunt deer, I'd either use an M1 Garand because it shoots a sufficiently powerful round to legally use on deer in California, or I'd buy a rifle specifically for that purpose.

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:58 PM

20. Don't know. I've never hunted, so I don't care.

The questions are irrelevant to me.

The 2nd Amendment isn't specifically about hunting, and I don't own guns for hunting.

Thanks for asking.

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 07:59 PM

21. Dear Rocco

1: How many rounds do you need to kill a single deer?
Depends on how good a shot you are. Most states limit magazines to 5 or less for deer hunting, though more rounds are permitted in possession. When I have hunted deer I got them on the first shot or missed them entirely. Admittedly it has been a while since I hunted so some of that may have changed

2: Do you actually use an assault rifle to hunt game and if you do, what kind of game do you kill with an assault rifle?
Practically no one has an assault rifle in the US. They are strictly controlled. I assume you mean AR-15 or AKM style rifles semi automatic sport rifles. Then the answer to your question is lots. The AR is a style of rifle and is not limited to just the .223 caliber. The last list I saw had over 100 calibers available in ARs. The upper part is interchangeable so it is easy to change calibers within a certain range. It has also been the most popular rifle sold in the US. Lots of manufacturers for you to choose from and all sorts of accessories. For example an AR in .308 is a great deer rifle. It would have to comply with the magazine restrictions for that state or area. A HB variant in .223 is good for varmints and light game. Check the rules in your state for allowed calibers before you buy anything. The AKM or SKS is a great medium range deer rifle, comparable to the lever action 30-30 of cowboy fame. Not sure what the import status is today, but you can make an SKS into a nice sporter easily and cheaply. It has a fixed magazine and in the process you get rid of the short stock and cheap bayonet.

3: Do you actually use a handgun to hunt, and if you do, what kind of game do you kill with a handgun?
Handgun hunting is a specialty. Due to limited range it is mostly a stalking sport and there are some state laws in play here as well, so check yours before you buy. Hunting pistols are mostly revolvers or even single shot and are often SA only (have to manually cock the hammer. They often have a scope. You can hunt anything the law allows from squirrel all the way up to big game. Make sure its legal and your caliber is right for your desired game.

If you are interested in handgun hunting, look at a .454 Casull. IIRC it has the same muzzle energy of a 30'06 round. Here is a picture of a typical SA hunting handgun:

Just curious.
Hopefully I have answered your questions and satisfied your curiosity.

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:15 PM

24. 1. In my state you have a three round limit on deer and

rarely does a good marksman need or have time for a second shot.
2. Well nobody uses an actual assault rifle by definition. (The gun people always use that argument) But the military style semi-autos with 30 round magazines nobody needs them for hunting. In some states semi-autos of any kind are illegal for hunting deer.
3. We have a handgun deer season in Ohio but most people I know use the big .44 magnum Dirty Harry style revolvers not a semi-auto with a 15 round magazine. My bother has shot several deer with a single action Ruger Blackhawk 44 magnum revolver.

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:16 PM

25. I don't use my AR-15 to hunt - sorry can't help you. nt

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Response to hack89 (Reply #25)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:26 PM

28. Why do you have an AR-15?

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #28)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:05 PM

30. I have four of them

my entire family are competitive target shooters.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #30)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 10:47 PM

38. I built a AR-15 for my wife and each of my sons.

All shoot competition, mainly High Power. I use a M1Garand that I rebuilt to National Match specs, and in 308 Winchester.

As a side note
My daughter in law and my middle son made me a grandfather today!!! 7lb-7oz 20" boy.

I guess I better get another AR stripped lower ready.

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:24 PM

26. m-chicken or the ar-egg

upaloopa: The AR-15 is patterned after the M-16.

I'm with you most all the way upaloopa, but is it the other way around? the AR15 came first? (The AR stands for first two letters in 'armalite' I believe).
.. I thought the AR15 was the prototype for the m16. The AR15 is however, popularly known as the 'civilian version' of the m16, rather than the m16 being the military version of the AR15.

In the effort to reduce replys, I am not an expert on gun technology or nomenclature but my idea is still valid.

agree, & neither am I.

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:24 PM

27. I have killed rabbits with a handgun. It's a skill passed on from my father.

As for assault rifles for hunting -- that's bullshit. No one needs an assault rifle for any reason but killing people. If you don't intend to kill people, get something else.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #27)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:33 PM

29. Regarding "No one needs an assault rifle for any reason but killing people."

You say that like it's a bad thing.

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:32 PM

32. I don't hunt, but I have ......

.... four hunting rifles.

I don't hunt, but I have 3 hunting shotguns.

I don't hunt, but I have a dedicated (single shot) hunting pistol.

And I have a number of other rifles, handguns and shotguns.

What does that do to your curiosity?

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:50 PM

35. Hunting answers:

1: How many rounds do you need to kill a single deer?
One, if you get a good shot. If you need a second shot, you might get it off before the deer is gone.

2: Do you actually use an assault rifle to hunt game and if you do, what kind of game do you kill with an assault rifle?
Assault rifles are machine guns and are illegal for hunting.
Assuming you meant "assault weapon", yes, back when I hunted all my deer hunting was done using an M1 Carbine, which was listed on the federal "assault weapon" ban.

AR-15 type rifles can be used for hunting smaller game and are quite good for that purpose.

3: Do you actually use a handgun to hunt, and if you do, what kind of game do you kill with a handgun?
I don't use handguns for hunting, but I know of people who do. I am not sure what animals they hunt with it.

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #35)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:29 PM

44. You mean the deer don't stand around, waiting for you to fire 29 more times?

That's rude.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #44)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:34 PM

45. That would require 6 magazines!

With all that rattling, you would not see a deer or anything else.

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:57 PM

36. all guns need to be melted down, the world over. no more guns anywhere, ever. the end.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #36)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:24 PM

41. And all foods need to be tasty, healthy, and free of trans fats and cholesterol.

The end.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #41)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:25 PM

42. and all unicorns should ride rainbows and fart cotton candy. the end.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #42)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:26 PM

43. Mmmm...cotton candy toots...

(sigh)

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #36)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:40 PM

47. Well the rich should keep theirs...

and the politicians, and the friends of the politicos of course...

Your average ignorant American should not be trusted with one of course, they should know their places...no?

They can only be trusted with our food, our transportation, our infrastructure, but those neolithic bastards should never be trusted with a firearm...or anything sharp...or blunt, no matter what they think (after all if they could think, they would not need us to do it for them). *sigh* it is a nuisance that you have to put up with in a democracy i suppose...pass the caviar please.



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Response to Riftaxe (Reply #47)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:44 PM

48. yes, dahling - and do please, have a glass of champagne.

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:18 PM

39. Sure

Point by point:

1) Only an ignorant ass thinks the 2A is about deer hunting.

2) Yes i have used an HK-91 while my .30-30 was in the shop, if things had worked out that day it would have sufficed. White tailed deer.

3) Never used a handgun to hunt, my hat is off to those fellows who do it shows a skill and a wallet more then I am willing to put towards a meal.

As for your curiosity, it it has been ~16 years since the last time our party attempted to purge itself of blue collar voters, it is even more silly these days then it was then.

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)


Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:36 PM

46. Answers

1. You're assuming gun owners own guns to hunt; this probably isn't true. But for hunting a deer, you typically use 3 or less. The legal capacity for a gun while hunting deer is typically 6 rounds or less. Deer run very fast, and if you are trying to kill the deer for the meat, you can't shoot them through the gut area because the fecal matter will contaminate the meat. Ideally, it would be a single shot broadside through the heart and lungs of a standing deer.

2. I'm going to assume you don't mean assault rifle; I'm going to assume you mean an "assault weapon" from the 1993 ban. The answer is "yes".

The .223 cartridge that AR-15s typically shoot is effective on varmints like coyotes and racoons and such. The AR-15 is typically a very accurate rifle and the .223 is a fast and aerodynamic cartridge, so taking small game at fairly long range is not uncommon. And you can swap the barrel and bolt of an AR-15 for cartridges that shoot larger but slower bullets, turning your rifle into a medium-range big-game gun similar in purpose to the AK-47-type rifle.

The 7.62mm cartridge that AK-47-type rifles shoot is a good short-range cartridge for deer and wild boar, and is commonly used in forested or brushy areas. The rifle is not particularly accurate and the 7.62mm cartridge is not particularly fast or aerodynamic, so it's best suited for short to moderate ranges.

The rifle is a delivery device for the bullet. Traditional bolt-action rifles also shoot the same cartridges that "assault weapons" do. Lots of bolt-action rifles shoot .223 Remington, and plenty of them shoot cartridges that are far more powerful than that.

3. People do from tree stands, where space is limited and ranges are usually short. The handguns are typically fairly powerful revolvers with either small telescopic scopes or very good iron sights, and the targets are usually deer.

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:47 PM

49. Locking

This post properly belongs in Outdoor Life, as it is about recreational uses of firearms and not about gun laws, gun politics, etc.


Regards,
Krispos42, Group Host

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