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Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:20 AM

A Black man's opinion on LGBT rights...

... LGBT rights are equivalent to the Civil Rights Movement.

And as a Black person, it is easy to see the connection.

LGBT rights is NOT equivalent to the right to smoke marijuana.

The right to smoke marijuana shares characteristics with the prohibition of alcohol back the day.

And you do not need to be Black to see the difference.

Why do I feel like I have to make this point?

One more time:

LGBT = Civil Rights Movement = Women's Movement = ... you see where this is going...
"Want to smoke weed " DOES NOT EQUAL "any form of civil rights"


I've noticed messages popping up on DU since Obama got re-elected suggesting that there is some kind of Civil Rights connection between LGBT rights and pot. It's like the weeders are trying to high-jack another unrelated issue to push their cause... to create a meme that pushes their cause.

And frankly, by doing so, essentially cheapens and reduces the LGBT Civil Rights issues, The Civil Rights issues of the 60s around race, and the Women's movement to the same level of prohibition of alcohol at best --- and the right to engage in the active sale, trafficking, and consumption of illegal substances.

I saw this play out on some Maher video on the site, but my browser crashed and I lost the link.

That was the last straw!!!!

As a Black man, I have to see this. LGBT rights is equivalent.
I wont go through the details of what qualities we share... I'm sure we all know.

It's these parasitic pro-drug types that, I think, know the difference, but care so much more about wanting to do their stuff anywhere they want, that they are willing to cheapen everything else around them to get it.

I've lost my patience today.

Anyway, that's it.

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Arrow 19 replies Author Time Post
Reply A Black man's opinion on LGBT rights... (Original post)
6502 Nov 2012 OP
Skittles Nov 2012 #1
6502 Nov 2012 #7
catbyte Nov 2012 #2
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #6
Prometheus_unbound Nov 2012 #3
brush Nov 2012 #4
6502 Nov 2012 #9
brush Nov 2012 #11
6502 Nov 2012 #16
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #5
LineReply .
Prometheus_unbound Nov 2012 #8
6502 Nov 2012 #10
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #13
6502 Nov 2012 #17
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #19
Prometheus_unbound Nov 2012 #12
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #14
6502 Nov 2012 #15
fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #18

Response to 6502 (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 06:01 AM

1. I hear your point

but why the use of the word "parasitic" when referring to, say, people who think pot should be legalized? I guess I haven't read those threads yet.

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Response to Skittles (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 01:40 AM

7. Actually, I do cruise the Weed/Drug threads... let me explain it...

Last edited Tue Nov 13, 2012, 05:40 AM - Edit history (1)

... apparently, I didn't go far enough. My intended meaning was "at least parasites". That means that they are not only parasites, but worse.

Anyway, let's get on with this. It goes like this:

* Weed is illegal.
* Mesc, coke, crack, meth... etc... are also illegal.
* The consumption, possession, sale, and trafficking in any of these and other illegal drugs will result in the following:

* imprisonment.
* loss of employment.
* if in college, expulsion... and recorded on your school record.
* during incarceration in may states loss of the right to vote.
* where the local laws apply this loss of the right to vote might extend even after release..
* unemployablity: nobody wants to hire anybody with a criminal record.
well certainly not anywhere were they would pay anything like a good wage.
* Weed is illegal.


Often, these people talk about developing support for medical marijuana. That it is like good for all kinds of things like:

* chemo-therapy to give people the munchies so they will eat.
* to calm down from stress or anxiety.
* helps with depression.
* helps them sleep.
* aches and pains.
* and the list goes on and on.... you know the list...


And they go on with these kind of reasons for why it needs to be legal.

Well, it turns out that for every issue, ache, pain, malady, condition or disease that they describe there is a solution:

* go to a doctor and get a prescription for what ails you


And the best thing is that all of the solutions are legal. Further, medicines are regulated in the US by the FDA --- that means everything from tracking research to doing their own and deciding what medicines can even enter trials or not... and definitely what passes to actual application within the US. The FDA aloing with the CDC there are statistics and research on follow ups to see how results fair over time. This includes processing raw data as well as integrating information about product non-performance, adverse reactions, complaints from citizens as well as from the doctors that use and prescribe the drugs.

* depression: legal anti-depressants.
* bipolar: legal bipolar specific medication.
* sleeping disorders: variety of legal over-the-counter and prescription medications.
* aches and pains: variety of legal over-the-counter and prescription medications from Ibuprofen to the highly regulated and strictly controlled Morphine (I had to use both: Ibuprofen is over the counter... horrible oral surgery where, due to complications, they had to turn off the antithetics mid operation and still fricken continue!!!!... that required the Morphine)


All are regulated. Safe. If anything goes wrong, investigations occur from questioning how the doctor used the meds or prescribed them. If the patient was responsible for taking it, did the patient following instructions correctly. Did the drug company do anything wrong. Were the issues within the published documentation recorded at the FDA from the trials and approval process. Does the CDC have any corroborating data showing a pattern of issues or issues that occur along side this. And on and on. Heck, they go all out like this even if someone has a bad reaction to over the counter Aspirin.

And with weed -- or any other illegal drug -- what do you get?

1. The promise from your local dealer or head shop owner or medical marijuana dispensary that this week's "Mamba Rainbow Blend" is the purest weed and wont screw you up because this week's weed is blended the same way as last week's weed. I mean, you have his word on it. Nothing else. No trials. No research. No protections. So you buy it.
2. This week's "Mamba Rainbow Blend" is actually different and you smoke it and you get messed up. What the hell did they cut this weed with? Dunno. Were the plants some kind of super mutants with 1000% more THC? Dunno.
3. This week's "Mamba Rainbow Blend" is actually the same as before so you smoke it and you don't get messed up.
4. In #1, #2 and #3, you've committed a felony at the federal level. Please read the list at the beginning of this comment.


So, yeah... I've been your Weeder threads.

And none of you --- whether on DU, or on other boards, or face to face (yeah, I deal with your type nose to nose) --- not a single one of you could ever address this issue. And look at this... I haven't even gotten into the "cost to society" issue of having to pay for resources associated with the medical care given illegal drug users when they mess themselves up (care that is diverted from people who legally break a leg or 2 year olds that burn their arms on the stove)... and then after society has paid to get you well enough to stand before a court, since it is a felony you are going to jail --- and that is something like 30,000-40,000 a year for your upkeep and management in the prison system. This could include further care from your self-inflicted injuries.

Wow. The rest of the tax payers' dollars at work.

Prohibition:
And don't make the excuse that you should be free to do whatever your want.
That's why tobacco and alcohol are regulated today.
Before it was anything goes.
Prohibition was ambitious.
Alcohol got regulated.


Tobacco:
Tobacco was thought to be safe... benign.
Over time we learned the truth (no thanks to the tobacco industry... remember this point)
Deaths from tobacco.
People proclaiming their rights to do what they want including harm themselves.
Society sick of paying the health costs for these people.
Tobacco regulations flourished.


So, I wonder who is driving this. The users of weed? Or is it the sellers?
I mean, for tobacco, the smokers were adamant about their rights and needs to smoke.
And the industry was definitely pushing advertising to support that.
And, further, they did push for laws that would weaken regulations against tobacco.

Hmmm....

You get it.

So... no: NOT A CIVIL RIGHT.

Don't cheapen any of the Civil Rights movements with your desire, need, addiction, choice to violate federal law --- that clearly has enough backing its reason for existence.

Hey, and for giggles: You try to address all of these issues here. Conditions are:

* No circular logic.
* No use of logical fallacies.
* Use of only vetted sources that are directly referenced from the FDA (http://www.fda.gov), CDC (http://www.cdc.gov), or any other .gov website. They have statistics, trail data, incident data and more. (Since you will always find people who just make stuff up on .org and .com and .edu sites, you cannot use any of those).
* No cherry-picking data.
* Make your best argument that addresses the cost to society issue.
* Be warned, you cannot just hand-wavy say that something is true because you say it (that's circular).

Oh, and understand that the burden of proof is not on the society in this case. Society has already spoken and created the law of the land. It is your job to make a strong case using facts that we --- the society --- should change our position to be in line with yours. We will pay taxes and believe and support the FDA the CDC and other entities. If you don't use their data, your argument is lost --- no matter what else you say or want to say.

We are parents, LGBT and straight and everything in between. We want the best for our kids and see illegal drugs as something that could harm them and the environment they grow up in.... and would eventually work in. We are so opposed that we actually go as far as moving to a different town, city, county or state to escape it. I've seen people who were poorer than me up and move to the next town over because they got wind that the last bunch of druggies that were incarcerated were getting out of prison. I actually sold my house and moved away to escape them, too.

So, give it try.

Make your case.

But, I have no confidence that you could succeed.

I've never seen anyone that supports this stuff who could.

But, I am willing to listen.

Oh, BTW, have you seen the movie "Super High Me". It is a really interesting movie in support of weed where a fellow chooses to smoke weed in excess for 30 days to see what happens to him. If you haven't seen it I will give you a summary:

* Fellow smokes weed every day and lots of it.
* He is obviously high as a kite and quite happy throughout the movie.
* He takes different mind and motor tests during the adventure and seems to do somewhat OK. I think there were times of impairment as well as times where he appeared unaffected.
* He goes sees a doctor from time to time during his adventure.


So, I think it was like his last visit to the doctor or something. He asks the doctor about his opinion of medical marijuana as a professional doctor. The doctor's reply, in summary, was as follows.

It's total bullshit. Just made up shit by a bunch of people who just want to smoke weed. They noticed a crack in the legal system that allowed an entity to classify anything as a kind of medicine and used that issue as a kind of wedge to force an opening for legalization. But, that is in fact, a ruse. They do it because they just want to smoke their shit.


Oh, yes... "at least parasites". And further case can be made for a willingness to lie and deceive in the service of illegal drug use -- activities that are illegal at the federal level. There is everything from self-interest to psychological issues that can only be determined during a court trial, interviews while incarcerated, or frank interviews before an incarceration and, of course, psychological evaluations.

So, give it try.

Make a case.

And like I said before: I am confident that you can't do it... but, I am willing to listen.


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Response to 6502 (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 06:12 AM

2. I actually agreed with S.E. Cupp when she blasted Andrew Sullivan about that on

Bill Maher's show. I would think that Sullivan, as a gay man, would've seen the difference. Smoking a joint is not even in the same league--the same ballpark--as the struggle for equality.

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Response to catbyte (Reply #2)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:12 PM

6. Yea

I was surprised by that too.

But I think Sullivan supports libertarian ideas more than civil rights although he would probably deny.

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Response to 6502 (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 06:18 AM

3. But

I agree that there is little link between the two, and that trying to put them together may only help the weaker cause at the expense of the other. I also think that there should be some limitation on the use of addictive and incapacitating substances (much further down than weed, of course).

However, both issues are a matter of personal freedom. It just happens that LGBT rights are a far more important matter than the other.

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Response to 6502 (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:37 AM

4. Agreed, but . . .

. . . alcohol is a legal drug that is regulated and taxed and the whole deal. It still causes many societal problems, including many traffic deaths and "mean' drunk violence. I say do the same with weed. You don't hear of many traffic deaths caused because of weed smoking. Also there are not too many "mean" stoners because it kinda mellows you out. I say legalize it, and it has no equivalence with the gay rights movement or the civil right movement. They should try equivalency argument with the repeal of Prohibition back in the day.

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