HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Gender & Orientation » LGBT Civil Rights and Activism (Group) » Serious Question ...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 12:32 PM

Serious Question ...

(though I expect to be flamed as a troll)

I just read the Pitt OP about what Clinton Left Out during his speech Wednesday. http://www.democraticunderground.com/101641128

In this OP he cited to Clinton's establishment of DADT, as a negative; arguably, it was in that it required people to be silent on who/what they are.

While I believe that no one should have to be silent, wasn't DADT a major, and positive, policy shift, when viewed in comparison to the policy in place before DADT?

Being a Black man, I recognize that change comes all too slowly; but I have learned that steps in the right direction (though not all) are to be welcomed, as they set the stage for accomplishing the ultimate goal.

Again ... I'm not trying to offend anyone; just asking a question to help reconcile my thoughts and experiences with your's.

8 replies, 841 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 8 replies Author Time Post
Reply Serious Question ... (Original post)
1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 OP
fleur-de-lisa Sep 2012 #1
1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #2
fleur-de-lisa Sep 2012 #3
1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #4
fightthegoodfightnow Oct 2012 #5
fightthegoodfightnow Oct 2012 #6
1StrongBlackMan Oct 2012 #7
fightthegoodfightnow Oct 2012 #8

Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 12:41 PM

1. I was not in favor of DADT . . .

I thought the time was right to make a hard push for something more substantial. It seemed like a cop-out to me.

However, some of my gay friends thought it was better than doing nothing at all. I believe Clinton gave up on gay rights after trying unsuccessfully to push for health care reform.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to fleur-de-lisa (Reply #1)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 01:00 PM

2. Do you see ...

DADT as a step that led to/made possible being able to serve openly?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #2)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 01:07 PM

3. Kind of, but as I wrote earlier . . .

I really believed that it was the right time to put forth some really bold policies for equality. I don't believe that all reform has to necessarily be made in incremental steps. Sometimes, when momentum is on your side, you have to come up screaming.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to fleur-de-lisa (Reply #3)

Fri Sep 7, 2012, 01:50 PM

4. You really think ...

under Clinton there was that type of momentum?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 09:19 PM

5. HHhhhhmm

It was one step backward....but no pain, no gain.

I agree that incrementalism often works in tandem with activism...and activism can cause pushback.

I did not vote for Clinton's re-election but in hind sight I was perhaps too tough on him. He did further the conversation even if DOMA or DADT were steps backwards.

Activism often creates the safe space for incrementalists to negotiate the terms of surrender.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Original post)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 09:29 PM

6. Question

Do you think that Obama's support for gay marriage will further the conversation of gay rights in the African American community?

I just heard the President of the NAACP speak at an HRC dinner and literally wept when I heard him talk about his mixed marriage parents struggle to have their marriage legally recognized and his comparison of that experience to gay marriage.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #6)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 11:02 PM

7. Further? ...

Probably not ...The Black community's support of President Obama is separate and apart from many issues, including Gay Rights.

Further, the Black community's position, especially that of the Black church, on Gay Rights is complicated to say the least. Being Black and/but not Gay and not particularly religious; but having spent time active in a church, I have always wondered how the Black church can be so anti-Gay rights, when 2/3 of the people standing behind the "Right Reverend Pastor" are Gay.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 10, 2012, 07:44 PM

8. Thanks for Responding

While trying not to overgeneralize, I agree that I have never understood the complex relationship between the black church and gay rights. I suspect that for many black ministers, it's no different than so many other homophobes....black or white.....the most homophobic....whether a minister or a politician or other civic leader....are usually living in the closet (that famous minister in Atlanta comes to mind although I've forgotten his name). 'Me thinks the man doth protest too much.'

However, I am optimistic that many black ministers are changing their tune. Polls in Maryland show the strongest support ever for gay marriage and I give Obama credit for his leadership on the issue. And the traditionally white gay rights leadership is becoming far more diverse on all levels....national and local. The NAACP vote supporting gay marriage almost unanimously was AWESOME. That's coalition building.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread